id say anything within 20 stories is ok.  plus there is an area where theres parking lots, and then theres an area where theres a lot of other smaller buildings further away from the river.  i'm hoping to see re-use and add-ons in the area where things are already built. 

here's today's graphic from the PD:

 

 

looks like lots of interior windows. 

 

tall and thin, with views from all rooms, please please please. 

Long term, I think it will be interesting to see how upscale Stonebridge interacts with the almost adjacent public housing. Certainly not saying it won't work, as Ohio City and Tremont have enjoyed healthy housing values/retail starts in relative proximity to public housing, and I certainly hope it will work. Just think it's an interesting dynamic to have these footprints basically touching at about Mulberry and 25th.

We'll know more at the end of the day, but I'll say that I've been a tad concerned about the focus on Main Ave when the glut of surface parking is closer to the river and Powerhouse.  This could be a strategic move, leaving those spots for potential casino construction, but either way, there's no doubt in my mind that if this project continues to be successful, that it will spawn more development surrounding whatever footprint they've already laid out.

I received the press packet at the office this morning, and there is a detailed 11x17-inch diagram of the proposed development, including phasing. It looks like one of the block-sized parking areas (next to Main Avenue and Center Street) would be structured parking. I will have to verify that this evening. There also are a lot of streetscape features (walkways, promenades, etc) shown beyond the area of the new buildings shown in the PD graphic of the new buildings.

 

I won't be able to scan the image until later this evening, however. And since it is 11x17, I will have to scan in it sections so the details can be seen better.

Looking forward to it!

The view?

And Stark has never said he expects to see his downtown vision built all at once. He fully expects it will take decades to realize. But there needs to be a goal to shoot for, with a number of developers and elected officials lined to participate in achieving that goal. That's what he trying to do.

 

Agreed.  I was unfair to lump Stark in with the others because the man has a vision and a creative plan for private individuals to buy in to his plan.  I just hope he can get some new establishments up 'n running piecemeal, like K&D have so brilliantly done with Stonebridge, and how the Avenue District is approaching it's highly worthwhile project.

I stopped by the ceremony today.  They had a huge model and a bunch of posters with the future developments. Cool, but not as extensive as I thought. I can't help but think that I'd rather have this go somewhere in downtown.  While this could be very cool, its spin-off effect would not be as powerful as if it were in downtown.

 

I think that the casino vote will have a big impact on the shape of the west bank.  Center St. is the main corridor. There will be some townhomes along the Cuyahoga just south/west of the Center St. Bridge. Also, another building would go just behind the existing stonebridge office building on the empty lot.  From there, the development will stretch north on Center.  The massings weren't that great. They looked very ColumbusDowntown-esque--all glassy and suburban officeparkish.  But, they obviously are just massings.

 

Sorry, I didn't have my camera with me.

Here's a graphic of the proposed Flats West Bank project (scroll right to see the whole thing)........

 

All the phases make sense to me until 10,11, and 12.  To me it suggests really high land values to place tall towers there.  Must be based on a casino coming in.

it seems that they also have to be careful not to block views from existing for sale units. 

 

were there massings or any indication on phases 9-12?

I ended up not making this event because I was bogged down in work for my real estate investment course...oh the irony!  So, sorry, but no pictures from me...

From what I could gather from the massings, the buildings wouldn't block each other's views. All the new phases would be connected by glass walkways (?). 

^Exactly.  The development seems to be a little bit Florida resort townish. 

do they reuse existing buildings on these sites?  the cluster of 1200 units + 600,000+ office retail has existing structures there and one of them.  also i wonder how tall these things will be, does anyone have any more pictures?? 

Ew, glass walkways? What the heck are they doing that for if, as they say, they want the neighborhood to be pedestrian-friendly and lively?

.........and suddenly, the tide changed. hahaha

so what was the real reason for press conference?  it almost seems like they are doing this as a favor to support the "believe in cleveland" sort of mentality.  and although they have had these phases in mind for some time, why announce something at this point about the future. 

 

now, when phase 12 doesn't happen, in 15 years someone will say, "there were supposed to be buildings here."

 

was there any overarching purpose (additional investment partners needed, hoping to start drwaing interest for the retail space)?

so what was the real reason for press conference?  it almost seems like they are doing this as a favor to support the "believe in cleveland" sort of mentality.  and although they have had these phases in mind for some time, why announce something at this point about the future. 

 

now, when phase 12 doesn't happen, in 15 years someone will say, "there were supposed to be buildings here."

 

was there any overarching purpose (additional investment partners needed, hoping to start drwaing interest for the retail space)?

 

I think that it makes a lot of sense. It helps build excitement and create a buzz that something great is going to happen here. That helps sell units. I would be more likely to consider Stonebridge knowing that it will be a growing neighborhood. If the current construction were to be the last building, I wouldn't consider it as much.

I also appreciate getting to see the public space improvements they want made, particularly since it sounds like they're hoping to establish a TIF. Rather than focusing on the need for public funding solely because the project will have an economic impact, they are also showing direct benefits from public investment: better accessibility between the East Flats and the West Flats, as well as FAR better access to Whiskey Island.

Anybody notice the footprint that is currently a parking lot north of Powerhouse?

I smell casino!

 

 

 

Pardon me, as I am not a real estate developer, but for a master plan of this magnitude to still leave all that surface parking right in the heart of things just seems a little off to me.  Perhaps they lack site control (I thought they owned these, though), or perhaps they really do see these as surface parking lots down the road.  Either way, I'd be happier to see all the development concentrated south of the Main Avenue Bridge, rather than spreading in a linear fashion up Center Street alone.

AUDIO: Why the west bank of the Flats is sprouting new housing

Weekend Diary, Plain Dealer

11:40 a.m.

 

Why is the Cuyahoga River like a moat? How are the Flats reminiscent of Chicago? What would a Cleveland casino mean to downtown redevelopment plans?

 

Find out all the answers, at least the ones provided by developers Doug Price and Bob Corna, in the latest Weekend Diary. The Plain Dealer's audio report on local business this week features the men behind the Stonebridge project on the west bank of the Flats.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/audio/index.ssf?/business/audio/kroll4.html

 

To me this project and the East Bank development will both move forward much quicker if the casino vote is approved. You will see shovels in the ground fast. I think every one is waiting for that-including Wolstein. I am kind of indifferent on becoming a Casino town. But if done correctly (a big hope), the +'s will defiantly outweigh the -'s.

If the immediate area around the casino is housing and the Powerhouse, it could work out.

As the McDonald's commercials say: I'm lovin' it.  Price & Corna are human, of course, but I have total confidence that these guys can pull this off; their track record so far is stellar.  I agree with the notion of splashing this in the headlines now to generate excitement (and hence presales), esp since Stonebridge VI is rapidly nearing completion.  I'm also glad they're not waiting/making this contingent on slots winning the vote in Nov  ... This will have to be a walking district -- from the heyday in the 90s, we know the Flats blessing is its curse -- narrow streets isolated from the main city surface, so driving/parking will be at a premium so som serious shoe leather will have to hit the pavement -- you won't see any tear-shedding for the loss of autos from this corner... I know some have grumped at the glass walkway connection, but it makes sense with this dense of development.  As beautiful/lovable as the Center St bridge is, it can't adequately connect the 2 sides alone plus its well to the South of where Wolstein is building on the East Bank  -- heck, maybe we can dust off those old Holy Moses shuttle ferries that have been dry-docked since the Flat's decline.

it all looks fine with me and glad to have it. corna was in at the start on the flats w/the powerhouse so more power to him. it's not like stonebridge has not built up popularity. it looks good, it's in a visually stimulating area and they arent making too many mistakes. no reason to think the new additions wont do just as well. this is good news and exciting stuff.

 

i hope they are not banking on the slot/casino issue too much for this - thats not gonna happen.

Pardon me, as I am not a real estate developer, but for a master plan of this magnitude to still leave all that surface parking right in the heart of things just seems a little off to me.  Perhaps they lack site control (I thought they owned these, though), or perhaps they really do see these as surface parking lots down the road.  Either way, I'd be happier to see all the development concentrated south of the Main Avenue Bridge, rather than spreading in a linear fashion up Center Street alone.

 

Musky got it right. Those surface lots are being held for a casino, hotel and structured parking. Corna and Price didn't show those things on the site plan I posted because they don't want people (esp. potential tenants) to get the false impression that future phases of Stonebridge depend on the casino.

KJP- are you going to post the pics you were taking of the 3D model? some of the buildings are very funky, Jetsonian (as in george Jetson) looking.

 

I love the proposed little town houses down by the river too.  Those are going to be hard to resist when they come on the market. you will be right down on the river, with city and bridges filling your view. the swing bridge will practically be in your living room.

^whaaat?

 

wow. yeah can we get those renderings up asap?

yea when are those gonna be posted?  are they on display still to the public??

I think he is talking about phase 7

KJP- are you going to post the pics you were taking of the 3D model? some of the buildings are very funky, Jetsonian (as in george Jetson) looking.

 

I didn't take pictures of the 3D model. One of Sun's photographers did. But he wasn't happy with the pictures because they were taken outdoors and had a lot of glare on the glass cover over the model. Stonebridge folks e-mailed a photo to me that they shot indoors, but I doubt we'll be able to use it for this issue. We just have too much stuff to print. So here's one of the benefits of being an UrbanOhio lurker -- you have access to pictures that don't get published right away in the media! Here ya go....

 

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo    I like!

Very nice.

 

I already had a friend contact me from out west who is seriously considering moving back to Cleveland and asked about this project as a splace to live.

 

 

wow those will be a great addition and contrast to the flats

 

i could still see something (one or two buildings) taller going up here, like in the 30-35 story range probably strategicly placed in the "Casino zone" on all those surface lots

This is random, but when the Daily Show caught Carl Monday outside his house, it looks like he lives in Stonebridge.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmYl_R5eb58

 

 

^ I actually think Carl lives on the east bank. I have not watched your clip, but when I watched the daily show it looked like the street that runs by the former Gilly's donuts. I have not seen him around stonebridge, and I can assure you if he did live here there would have been an expose or two already.

Oh, you are probably right. My clip sucks. I was confused in the darkness =)

Carl lives in the Kirkham Townhomes on West 10th Street (just off of West 9th and St. Clair).

 

 

Does issue 3 failing have any known impact on this project?

I have wondered about what the impact is. Not sure if any of the projects were directly involved with gambling.  I kind of got the impression that gambling would only be the icing on the cake. I am sure the powerhouse people(my mind is blank, Jacobs, right?) are more affected. I am sure it will show up on the ballot again though, and maybe in a new and improved way where it can pass.

seriously...I wanted the benefits of the legislation, but the way that it was written was just so shady!  we can do better.  and the FWB will do just fine without a casino in the near-term!

Just as Tower City will likely turn to the promise of the Convention Center/Medical Mart, I would imagine Jacobs will reevaluate and propose another high-yield facility. Of course, as Peabody pointed out, I doubt the casino talk is dead quite yet. Meanwhile, the first several phases of Stonebridge moved on the market without the promise of the casino. I think the density of residents that is slowly being built up along the West Bank will contribute more to additional market demand than the addition of the casino would.

I seem to recall that there was an ancient Indian burial mound on Whiskey Island. Does that qualify it as a potential Native American reservation?

true, the casino would be a hindrance (imo) for the housing market, depending on where it was built and in what fashion.  For example, if it was built just west of the power house, that would be bad for the Stonebridge residential component.  If they tried to locate it further north...say, north of the Main Ave. Bridge, then I think the negative impacts could be lessened.  Still, all that new traffic and rabble-rousing would be a detriment to residential growth, but would certainly encourage more commercial development.  Though, from what I recall, these impacts have not been proven decisively in other cities...

I think this thread has been quiet long enough.

Has anyone heard any news (preferred good)?

 

Or did the casino defeat stall it?

This is technically part of the Stonebridge development. And when I asked Corna in January about a rumor that a non-gambling entertainment complex would take the place of the casino, he pleaded innocent. He also said that Jeff Jacobs hasn't given up on the casino, and that Stonebridge would proceed with or without a casino.