The city has nothing on record re: plan for the whole Flats.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/cwp/dist3links.htm

mods, can we merge? pretty please.

 

do you want in contained in this thread, or to keep the thread outside?

can we add it to the thread that KJP created?

edit****************

 

image and post removed due to duplication after merge

 

please resume your normal viewing habits

The Flats Oxbow Association is developing a masterplan, but I don't know where they are in the process.

The Flats Oxbow Association is developing a masterplan, but I don't know where they are in the process.

They're in the midst of data collection, and they've (Flats Oxbow and Jim Boniface) have already interviewed dozens of stakeholders.  I think that they're aiming at having the draft plan together by this Autumn.

I've heard that the Flats-Oxbow is pretty much a useless organization (and most people in the Flats realize that). I don't think that their master plan would necessarily carry much weight.

If they don't have a design-review panel, then I can see your point.

add this to the exciting new cleveland developments. in ten years you wont recognize this city. keep em coming!

If they don't have a design-review panel, then I can see your point.

they do have design review

Wow, the strip district sure is attracting a lot of residential development! Maybe Larry Flynt will sell the air-rights above his new club for some additional residential towers.  ;)

NOW you are talking!!!!!!!!!!!

Does anyone have access to a master plan, city of Cleveland or otherwise, for the Flats area?  As 3231 mentioned, there are now 4 significant projects planned for the flats, yet I've seen little (aside from a cursory land use plan from Building Cleveland By Design) in the way of a plan regarding how all these projects will interact with each other and with the existing land uses.  If Cleveland City Council is approving these projects, is it based on an existing plan or simply on the concept of highest use of available land?

 

I, for one, am very concerned about how all of these projects will interact with the towpath and existing light rail, as well as how they might be best served in the future by newly constructed/re-purposed multi-modal connections, i.e. bike lanes/shared lanes, bike/walk paths, sidewalks, bus/rail, etc.  Is there a plan for this?  And if not, can we at UrbanOhio help to spur the creation of one??

It sounds like a long range plan it is overdue...I could have sworn there was something of flatsooxbow site but cannot find anything. You are very right guv...I agree the potential should not be ruined by haphazardly piecing everything together and tainted by incompatable uses.  Lets do it right! I think current  residents need to be part of the stakeholder group.

If they don't have a design-review panel, then I can see your point.

they do have design review

 

I've heard that the only keeping the Flats Oxbow Association alive is that the executive director is independently weather and does not charge members fees to keep the association alive. Additionally, I read in a recent news letter that the design review of the Flats Oxbow approved awnings for the renovated cantina building. It went on to say that the developer nor the city/public do not want the awnings. What's with that??

^^ Just a friendly suggestion I guess!

If they don't have a design-review panel, then I can see your point.

they do have design review

 

I've heard that the only keeping the Flats Oxbow Association alive is that the executive director is independently weather and does not charge members fees to keep the association alive. Additionally, I read in a recent news letter that the design review of the Flats Oxbow approved awnings for the renovated cantina building. It went on to say that the developer nor the city/public do not want the awnings. What's with that??

I read that too. Misprint? or was it something that is required due to some code? I know I paid my members dues- maybe my $5 a year is what keeps it alive!

I don't why I'm even posting this, since I got my ass scooped by Crain's on the story. But here it is anyway....

_____________________

 

July 19, 2007

West Side Sun News

High-rise condominiums proposed for waterfront

By Ken Prendergast

Staff Writer

When the real estate market gets dry, just add water.

That’s what a partnership led by developer Russell Berzin is doing by proposing four high-rise condominium buildings next to the Cuyahoga River in the Flats. The $50 million development of 265 for-sale housing units would be sought in phases, with construction of the first building starting as early as spring 2008.

City Council’s Planning Zoning and Development Committee last week recommended rezoning nearly four acres of land owned by Columbus Road Realty at Columbus Road and Center Street. Their recommendation follows an approval by the City Planning Commission.

Columbus Road Realty was formed by real estate investors James Breen, Benjamin Cappadora, Joel Cole, Michael Miller and Raymond Schmidlin Jr. Cole is president of Network Parking. They bought the land in 1999 from Sherwin Williams Co. but has remained a parking lot.

City Council will have to approve the rezoning change, from general industry to a relatively new zoning classification — downtown residential, which allows other uses on the same property such as restaurants or retail. More than 600 housing units have been built and sold in the Flats with another 1,500 housing units planned among the Stonebridge and Flats East Bank developments.

“No housing market? Give me a break,” said Ward 13 Councilman Joe Cimperman. “Lakefront housing and riverfront housing is where it’s at.”

“I’ve learned over my career there’s (marketing) buttons that can be pushed when water is involved,” said Berzin. “We’ll break ground right after enough sales contracts are in hand. Our most optimistic path is to be breaking ground in the spring, but it could be a year later.”

He has built housing in Lake County, Cleveland Heights and Naples, Fla. This will be Berzin’s first development in downtown Cleveland. Why now?

“There’s a need for quality housing downtown,” he said. “It (the site) is within steps to the federal building, the site for Canal Basin Park, Tower City and what could potentially be the convention center.”

City and Ohio Canal Corridor officials are putting together a funding package for building the Canal Basin Park, a 20-acre area between Settlers Landing and the Carter Road bridge. The city committed $3 million for the park and is seeking additional grants, Cimperman said.

Paul Volpe, president of City Architecture Inc., said planning for the condo towers is still in the early stages. Envisioned are four glassy buildings ranging in from eight to 20 stories tall and built atop low-level parking structures.

Despite the ground-level parking, he said the buildings will be designed with what’s called “a street presence.” That’s planning parlance for larger structures having publicly accessible amenities along the sidewalk, like cafes and shops.

“It’s a very important piece of riverfront in the Flats,” Volpe said. “The views are phenomenal. It’s fabulous.”

There’s a need for quality housing downtown,” he said. “It (the site) is within steps to the federal building, the site for Canal Basin Park, Tower City and what could potentially be the convention center.”

 

and the best nudie bar district this side of the Mississippi!

fyi:

 

The City has its sights set on 2014 for a Canal Basin opening. They don't want to open it until the towpath reaches downtown.

I'm glad someone has the vision to develop those parking lots, I remember when the building that was there got demolished and I always thought, why the heck put a parking lot there when you can put housing and retail/restaurants instead.  The west bank (even though technically this is sandwiched between the north and south sides of the river) is going to rock.

 

 

All discussion regarding the Strip District has been moved back to

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=13073.msg201659#msg201659

This sounds nice; I hope it get's done but let's be realistic.  Except for certain projects -- Stonebridge, Ave Dist, and hopefully soon on a Flats East Bank near you, Wolstein (that's gone quiet lately, what'z up over there?) -- a lot of projects are struggling.  If things had gone as planned,  Marous' District Park would be openning Phase one about now; there've seemingly been umpteen planned "Courthouse Square" condo projects that have disappeared into the netherlands, and even in booming Ohio City, the Jay Loft project is stopped in slow sales construction limbo (and that's largely adaptive reuse with some infill/new construction) ... In case you haven't noticed, in most towns, housing -- particularly new start condo/1-family housing is still slumping.  In downtown, while we've had fantastic adaptive reuse, totally new construction has been few and far between and seemily all of it one location: at Stonebridge.

 

I'm pulling for Zaremba over at Avenue District and the others, but it's tough right now.  Canal Basin sounds nice, and I'd obviously loooove seeing it, but right now I'd just be happy with the stuff already out there getting done downtown (and in town)... and that includes 515 E. Euclid, where the planned condo tower is... well, somewhere in the future, I guess... last I looked there isn't any ground-level retail there, yet.  Maybe when ECP finally finishes there will...

OK.  So when do we start phase 6?  New thread....yeah!! :lol:

 

Yeah, so now that Stonebridge Phase 5 is essentially complete, does anyone have news on the next phases of Stonebridge? I think that this last spring we heard that when Phase 5 was complete, they would announce plans for Phase 6 and 7 together (the office conversion of the Tenk Building and the townhouses that fill in the "hole" next to the viaduct and Washington St. I think).  But there hasn't been much news since.

 

boy from all this PR released press it makes you believe Cleveland is the only place booming when the rest of the country has come to a near halt with new residential contruction. Lets see SB 5 get even close to selling out first.

I'm not saying everything is all sunshine everywhere but "near halt"? Don't get me wrong - the market has definitely slowed, but it really depends on who you talk to...

 

Just an example - Chicago has seven residential towers over 700 feet tall (taller than the Terminal Tower) under construction (as in, cranes are in the air, floors are going up). I highly recommend the following section at the skyscraperpage.com forum - a rundown of most North American (and a few European) cities construction.

 

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=87

 

Is there a crash in the future? Who knows, but as nice as the development in Cleveland is (especially during a real estate turndown), it's a blip on the radar compared to its peers.

I dont think Cle will crash..just stop for a while.

boy from all this PR released press it makes you believe Cleveland is the only place booming when the rest of the country has come to a near halt with new residential contruction. Lets see SB 5 get even close to selling out first.

 

So what are the sales/occupancy number?

 

I'm not saying everything is all sunshine everywhere but "near halt"? Don't get me wrong - the market has definitely slowed, but it really depends on who you talk to...

 

Just an example - Chicago has seven residential towers over 700 feet tall (taller than the Terminal Tower) under construction (as in, cranes are in the air, floors are going up). I highly recommend the following section at the skyscraperpage.com forum - a rundown of most North American (and a few European) cities construction.

 

 

 

Is there a crash in the future? Who knows, but as nice as the development in Cleveland is (especially during a real estate turndown), it's a blip on the radar compared to its peers.

 

I don't think Cleveland will crash, we have been smart and not overbuilt like many cities.  We don't have a glut of NEW homes/condos/townhomes sitting on the market. 

 

Currently in the city itself we do not have the type of housing first time and young people want.  I think that, that factor plays in our favor.  In the next three years when several project are completed I think the interest in city living will continue to rise and be more popular than ever.

But we do have a TON of vacant homes in the city.

boy from all this PR released press it makes you believe Cleveland is the only place booming when the rest of the country has come to a near halt with new residential contruction. Lets see SB 5 get even close to selling out first.

 

I'm hearing rumblings that all is not perfect in Camelot. Possibly K&D has stretched themselves too thin...trades being delayed extensively with payments, etc. Maybe it's just a blip, but he hasn't always operated this way, so it's getting some people's attention.

But we do have a TON of vacant homes in the city.

 

That's a different market.  The people looking to buy condos are generally upper middle to upper class, retirees or young professionals. 

Machine leaving longtime Flats home

Workers join new Strongsville employer; developer mulls Stonebridge expansion

By STAN BULLARD

4:30 am, May 12, 2008

 

Tenk Machine & Tool Co. is disappearing from Cleveland's Flats in a deal that has reopened the closed Demag Plastics Group plant in Strongsville and might allow the Stonebridge mixed-use complex to expand.

 

A skeleton crew last week arranged drill bits, lathes and cranes for an equipment auction at 10:30 a.m. tomorrow, May 13, at Tenk's 2111 Center St. location. However, most of the 35 workers who were Tenk employees already are working at the former Demag plant that newly formed parts and equipment maker JSM Cleveland will use to serve Tenk customers and others, said Mike White, JSM Cleveland's sales and engineering manager....

 

http://crainscleveland.com/article/20080512/FREE/641695489

The Tenk building is awesome.

The Left Bank building is owned by Mr. Newman, who is the executive director of the Flats Oxbow Association, a CDC for the Flats area.  The building is the most poorly maintained residential building in the area except for CMHA, but the views from the units must be awesome.  Mr. Newman has been delinquent paying his taxes for the last few years: http://auditor.cuyahogacounty.us/repi/taxbill.asp?txtParcel=00319007

 

He's smart: collect rent, don't pay taxes, don't maintain your building, and as the neighborhood sprouts new condos and apartments (and someday a towpath trail), sell the place!  Just what we all want from CDC directors. 

 

 

The Tenk building IS awesome. I am confused though since I thought K&D acquired the Tenk Building last year...or that is what they publically said. This deal is not complete? At the time my understanding the plan was for KD was going to raze it to put up more glass or  faux brick stuff (what is there is fine, but enough already-lets keep some diversity, something that makes me love the flats). I feel my recollection is correct b/c I was immensely disappointed it would be knocked down. It may not matter b/c  a a while back word was new  development on the west bank was on hold indefinitely.

 

The Left Bank building is amazing but needs work. I love the top floor space. It looks right out on the iron ghost and has a spectacular city view. The Superior Viaduct would be your patio.

The plans I've seen indicated that they were going to reuse the Tenk Building.

^I agree. All the plans that I saw showed that Tenk was going to be reused. They were going to expand a bit with some glass and steel. K & D, like any smart developer, sought control of the land via purchase options. If the market goes sour, then they don't have to exercise those options.

Would love to see that building rehabbed. Without buildings like that,  the Flats just wouldn't be the same.

^Indeed!  And yet they continue to get knocked down every year even still.  I worry about the Flats.  A lot.

The plans I've seen indicated that they were going to reuse the Tenk Building.

I think a saw the super duper crazy plans that had a water park and star ship. Kidding a little, but in all seriousness, I was told face to face by someone quite involved with this project that TENK was a goner. I do not remember who, but someone such as price or corna.  I only remember b/c I was really upset and could not understand why it could not be rehabbed for a new use.  While it is not like it is a spectaculat building, it is an example of a classic flat warehouse and should be preserved. 

Does anyone have a picture of the tenk building

^ I will go take one, brb...

Okay, well, I took a couple from my balcony... they didn't turn out as great as I thought they would... so I got carried away a little bit. Sorry for the low quality pics (my cell phone is the only camera I have right now, my digital cam isn't here with me)

 

Here we go...

 

 

 

Front of the building on Center st.

 

Washington Ave. side.

 

Front, again.

 

 

 

Awning/loading docks on the corner of Center/Winslow

 

 

North side of building, I'm facing east towards Center.

 

Around back. I had my arm thru the fence to take these pics. I thought about climbing over it but that's probably not a good idea wearing gym shorts and flip flops.

 

 

 

 

 

And not to be negative or anything... but after seeing it in person, if this building was to be rehabed, it would need a TON of work. And I'm sure the layout of the building(s) are nowhere near what the stonebridge developers have in mind.

 

Don't get me wrong. It'd be cool to have something historic, but I don't think it's very practical at all. Just my opinion!

I don't think SB is going to do anything at all with it, it may be up for grabs. I actually like the front a lot.  I hope someone gets a hold of it and does something with it. I have no idea what it looks like from the inside though.

And not to be negative or anything... but after seeing it in person, if this building was to be rehabed, it would need a TON of work. And I'm sure the layout of the building(s) are nowhere near what the stonebridge developers have in mind.

 

Don't get me wrong. It'd be cool to have something historic, but I don't think it's very practical at all. Just my opinion!

 

thats whats wrong with you whippersnappers.  You see "problems' instead of "opportunities"!  Damnit!!

 

I see:

– 4,5 no more than 10 new construction levels but at varying heights.

– Balcony's or sun rooms

– Large windows (I get the feeling lots of windows, have been covered)

– Brink interiors

– unique floor plans

– industrial curb appeal

– potential for lower level unit's to have private entry

 

 

 

 

 

 

thats whats wrong with you whippersnappers.  You see "problems' instead of "opportunities"!  Damnit!!

 

I see:

– 4,5 no more than 10 new construction levels but at varying heights.

– Balcony's or sun rooms

– Large windows (I get the feeling lots of windows, have been covered)

– Brink interiors

– unique floor plans

– industrial curb appeal

– potential for lower level unit's to have private entry

 

 

I will agree that maybe I'm a little bit handicapped with my creative side when it comes to stuff like this... but I'm just remembering how when phase 5 was built, everybody bitched that it wasn't friendly or inviting on the street level. Just looking at this building, I'm having a REALLY hard time seeing how it could be made to have the retail stores, restaurants, etc. that we all know the neighborhood could use.

 

 

hopefully Tenk will be saved. Don't think K and D is going to do it. Maybe who ever buys the left bank building will do something with Tenk too.  :wink:

 

The west bank will still rise.

Peabody, why do you think K and D wont be doing anything with it?  Shifting priorities?  Hands full?  I can see that...

LOL, I was in a wedding party that got some of their post wedding shots outside the Tenk building, about 3 weeks ago.  The photographer wanted some urban grit--half the wedding party thought it was awesome, the other half thought that it was "ghetto" and wanted to go to the beach.  We went to Edgewater, had some good pics, and then one of the brides maids looked down at their feet and noticed a used condom stuck under their choo's.  We scrambled out of their fast, finished on the mall across from the marriott.  The point at the end was we should have stayed at the Tenk building, the best photos ended up being there-great contrast.

Don't get me wrong. It'd be cool to have something historic, but I don't think it's very practical at all. Just my opinion!

 

Um, some perspective please!! Get in my time machine and ride back with me to the early 1990s to see what the National Terminals building, between West 10th and West 9th next to Main Avenue looked like. It's a massive building that was in horrible shape, and few people thought it could be saved.

 

And you should've seen what the Powerhouse on the West Bank of the Flats looked like in the mid-1980s. It had no roof, no windows and piles of junk and tires illegally dumped in the center of its crumbling walls. There's a picture of it on here, I think in one of those great photo threads of Cleveland in the 1980s.

 

You'd be amazed what some vision, some TLC and a good chunk of money can do for a building.

 

The Tenk Building is a very sound building. And Bob Corna of K&D can't wait to get his hands on doing some cool stuff with its exposed brick!

Bob Corna is no longer with K&D. And they have suspended growth on the WB. As we know they are focused on other parts of downtown now.