The Cincinnati Bell building on 7th street (telephone building) was built the same way (with support for more floors), but as you pointed out, its cheaper to built out than up.

There are at least a dozen buidlings downtown that were designed for more floors.  The most recent one was Fountain Place (Macy's). 

Honestly it took 15s year for them to build QCS2. It make take another 10 year for this to happen. Although i know it's 80% leased now and expected to be 100% leased by spring.

I doubt it'll take another ten years.  Look what happened to downtown in the 80's.  We got about 4 or 5 towers.  BUT, We'll see.  Hey at least its already on the drawing board;)

According to Walter Langsam, the W&S Building on the northeast corner of 4th & Broadway was designed to be a tower with floors added in the future; not the squat building it is. When they decided to expand in the past, they decided to grow out and not up (cheaper probably) . . . so hence the additions to the north and east.

 

I say just build on top!

 

That could result in something pretty neat, like the Hearst Tower in NYC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearst_Tower_%28New_York_City%29

Honestly it took 15s year for them to build QCS2. It make take another 10 year for this to happen. Although i know it's 80% leased now and expected to be 100% leased by spring.

 

Actually QCS was contemplated in the early to mid 1980s.

 

 

(1st let me apologize for the length of this post)

Its important to note that the Hearst Tower was planned to reach only 20 stories  (+the six story base) at the completion of its addition.  Its structure no where near anticipated the loads of the present building (as evidenced by Foster's new structure http://www.architecturelist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/hearst-tower.jpg)

 

This is just to say that I'm sure the W&S Building is similar and it would not be as simple as adding floors- the more important aspect of the 4th and Broadway Site is the zoning.  Hearst was able to create the tower despite its historic status because of the architect (Joseph Urban's) original plan for the tower and the zoning permits that still existed from the 1920s.  Does W&S have similar permits, and or is that building on a historic register? (As I recall it is, but I dont know about the permits.)

 

I do know that there were two thesis projects from UC's MArch program, 5 years ago which partnered with W&S to study the site and propose a Class A tower, which still incorporated the existing building.  One pulled a Hearst type addition, the other encased part of the existing structure in glass with that glass wrapping up to the southern facade of the new tower on the site just to the east of the existing W&S building. [One of the students was my TA at the time, his document can be found here http://etd.ohiolink.edu/view.cgi?acc_num=ucin1116273955] 

W&S funded some of his research and worked with him in a number of meetings.  It is safe to say that we are a good 6 years into the W&S study already. (The linked thesis document has very few renders of Paul's solution which was two towers with one bending away from the other. Fig 7.2 and 7.5 do the best job of displaying the solution.)

I have calculated at 183 X 200 (the rough measure of the spinning clock garage) that the new tower would be at least 21 stories tall.  If W&S seek another tenant to help fill space it could be taller.  But that is what they will need to house 2000 employees and a lobby.

Conversely the site between 4th and 5th (created by the demo of The Woodford and 420 buildings) would generate a site 175' x 400'.  The question has to be whether W&S is interested in having the new HQ adjacent to their historic HQ creating a more visible presence from 71 south or if they are more interested in being part of the 3rd street wall. 

(Depending on this decision the high-end condominium complex would take other site...)

I think it would be nice to see some residential windows lit up along 3rd street.

Are those buildings in the Lytle Park Historic District?  I would think they would choose the path of least resistance but maybe they could afford the fight if it turns out to be financially prudent.  It would be sad to lose those historic structures though.

^ Only The Woodford is in the Lytle Park Historic District.

http://cincinnati-oh.gov/cdap/images/cdap_img3699.gif

I must say, W&S seems to be more of a nuisance with regards to development.  Aside from the fact that Barret and crew are one of the few business leaders in town that are anti-streetcar, I feel they have been asleep at the wheel for a decade and are now waking up and potentially ruining one of the nice little corners of downtown.  I hope they don't touch their beautiful historic building  or some of the other beautiful properties they own.  If they do "touch" them, here is an idea: about rehabbing some of them.  this from a copmany that did nothing with Fifth and Race for 10 years during economic boom times.  I don't trust W&S at all here.

They are redoing the Phelps Apartments as an extended stay hotel.  Hopefully this will be well done. 

^Per 5th and Race you have a point.

But this is the same firm that pushed heavily to preserve this area of downtown in the 1960s and with Councilman Taft created the cap over 71/Lytle Park.

They do have an historic record of preserving this nook of town, and their current interest in adding residential to the area makes me give them the benefit of the doubt on this project.

 

(Both 420 and The Woodford do not have office friendly interior layouts- that said if any building is lost it will be 420 and for the residential and corporate gain I do not see a problem with that.  Cincy has more gems over on the western or northern parts of the basin that imo we should concern ourselves with preserving before a fight is put up about 420.)

They also did a good bit of work in OTR in the mid 90s.

They are redoing the Phelps Apartments as an extended stay hotel. Hopefully this will be well done.

 

They are moving along quickly.  The exterior will remain completely unaltered, including no crappy additions.  They basically gutted the inside down to the supports and have constructed everything to be a standard Residence Inn finish on the inside.

The spinning clock is kind of a landmark.  Granted, a new tower would be nice, but I'll miss that clock.

 

just put the spinning clock on top of the new tower, problem solved.

 

Or you could put it in the birdcage and turn it into a lighthouse of sorts.

 

Clearly, the answer is to put the spinning clock in the middle of one of the Fort Washington Way caps as a sculptural element!  :-D

I don't know why anyone would care about that spinning clock. That thing is not very impressive, especially for something on the riverfront...

No problem with that, Johio. Although it is humongous, I think it'd be hard to fit it indoors.

W&S: Wait to fund Anna Louise Inn

By Lisa Bernard-Kuhn • [email protected] • January 21, 2011

 

DOWNTOWN – Western & Southern Financial Group wants Cincinnati City Council to put off a decision to award $2.6 million in federal housing dollars for a plan to renovate Anna Louise Inn, one of Cincinnati’s oldest shelters for women and families.

 

The move follows the insurance giant’s repeated attempts to purchase the inn from non-profit Cincinnati Union Bethel and turn it into high-end condominiums. Western & Southern says the inn – located at 300 Lytle St. – is in the way of the firm’s long range plans to turn the historic Lytle Park neighborhood into a “gaslight district” anchored by new housing, restaurants and businesses.

I think this is hurting W&S image. They look like bullies.

If it's federal dollar's, you use it or lose it. Now If W & S want to fork up $2.6 million of their own money and buy the building. That's a different story.

They have made some large offers for the property... need to post the earlier article on this development too.

Not fully informed on this issue but I think CUB is probably playing out the string to get th most they can from WS.

 

From a guest column by Steve MacConnell President and CEO of Cincinnati Union Bethel.

 

"Representatives from Western & Southern have suggested that this home is better suited for wealthier people by converting the Inn into a high-rise condominium building. We disagree."

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110122/EDIT02/101230321

 

If their plan is to TEAR DOWN this building, as he suggests, then that is an outrage.  Or was he misquoted, meaning to say "high-end condominium building"

^Agreed that it would be bad to lose that building.  I'd also like to see their masterplan, if for nothing else to get a feel for if another tower is in the offing.

 

based on hteir treatment of the Phelps, should we believe they want to demolish?  It seems thy have some appreciation for history.

^Agreed that it would be bad to lose that building. I'd also like to see their masterplan, if for nothing else to get a feel for if another tower is in the offing.

 

based on hteir treatment of the Phelps, should we believe they want to demolish? It seems thy have some appreciation for history.

 

The way I read it they do not want to demolish, they want to rehab with something that "fits" what they believe should be next to their HQ.  They understand that proper renovation only helps property values and they want as exclusive a neighborhood around their HQ as possible. I could never imagine a downtown without places like Anna Louise or the Drop Inn but the powers that be have been really good at being social bullies this past year.

City Council voted 8-1 last week to give the $2.4 million grant from the Federal government to the Anna Louise Inn, effectively ending any speculation about the Inn's transformation to a high-end condominium complex. 

It can still be purchased and rehabilitated into another use.

The official stance of the Anna Louise Inn is that they are not for sale and they are not going to quit doing what they do, where they do it.  This $2.4 million grant funds a long discussed renovation.  Unless some new drama happens fast, it won't be purchased-

Of course it can technically be purchased... but it won't be- since only one side is saying they are interested in a deal.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110330/BIZ01/303300009

"The new hotel bar also could eventually serve residents he expects will fill the company's next project, a condominium complex on the site of an existing parking garage at Third and Broadway.

 

"We think there's a need for more downtown living that is friendly for people with dogs," Barrett said.

 

What isn't planned for high-end condo conversion is the Anna Louise Inn across the park from the Phelps. Western & Southern has attempted to purchase the property from its non-profit owner, Cincinnati Union Bethel. Earlier this year, City Council approved the inn's $12 million renovation, which ensures that it will continue on as a safe haven for women recovering from addiction or domestic abuse."

 

I guess the thread title can now be changed...

Good looking hotel with great amenities and a possible new condo development?  SWEEEEEEEET!

Dont think the condo development is going anywhere since the homeless shelter will not sell out.

From the article, I don't think it will be placed there, but at their current parking garage site at Broadway and 3rd.

FYI

Steve MacConnell and Mary Carol Melton of Cincinnati Union Bethel will be at the Downtown Residents Council Membership Meeting on April 12th @ 6pm (Main Branch Library - 3rd Floor Tower Room) to speak about the Anna Louise Inn.

I doubt that they have any imminent plans -- this looks like just the sort of thing where they're trying to spook other developers.  I never liked either of these sites for a condo tower because of the noise from Fort Washington Way. 

Well, considering that we went from a new W&S Headquarters to condos - and from the Mary Louise Inn to a desolate parcel next to FWW, I'm not sure what their game plan is. Selling condos next to a major highway, where there is a constant stream of noise, is going to be tough. I think they are just looking at their options and yeah, spook others.

If they get the FWW topped, it wouldn't be such a bad location. They helped get the Reds ballpark where they wanted it.

No, FWW is above ground at this point and so the caps would make no difference.  Sure, One Lytle Place is right next to the highway, but it "faces" the river. 

Dont think the condo development is going anywhere since the homeless shelter will not sell out.

 

It's not actually a homeless shelter--it's for battered women. 

Well, considering that we went from a new W&S Headquarters to condos - and from the Mary Louise Inn to a desolate parcel next to FWW, I'm not sure what their game plan is. Selling condos next to a major highway, where there is a constant stream of noise, is going to be tough. I think they are just looking at their options and yeah, spook others.

 

A guy at work said that a condo development there would be Parker Flats on the east side of downtown instead of west.  There would be some similarities. 

>it's for battered women.

 

The buidling was originally simply an apartment for single women.  It took on its present role gradually as middle and upper class people moved out of the basin. 

Don't really understand the hints that this is a bad location.

 

Parker flats is a great comparable.  Right next to a major I-71 interchange. Slightly removed from where most of the development on downtown is-  on an "edge" of potential development. Same distance to Fountain Square, etc.

 

There are many many many high rises up against major interstates that still do well.

I don't think Parker Flats is a good comparable. The location is different, and so is the toopgraphy and setting. It sets fairly recessed down a hill and between a tower and soaring highway ramps. It's one of the least desirable corners, in terms of amenities, in downtown. Build anything high, that would be great, but there is no demand for that.

 

Parker as a building isn't the best of examples either. Great looking structure, but they are slow sellers and well below what they were originally asking for.

I don't think Parker Flats is a good comparable. The location is different, and so is the toopgraphy and setting. It sets fairly recessed down a hill and between a tower and soaring highway ramps. It's one of the least desirable corners, in terms of amenities, in downtown. Build anything high, that would be great, but there is no demand for that.

 

Parker as a building isn't the best of examples either. Great looking structure, but they are slow sellers and well below what they were originally asking for.

 

Almost everything is below what was originally being asked-  Even 3CDC Gateway Quarter units have dropped from low 300's to mid to upper 200's.

 

There are no exact comparables- but Parker is on the edge of downtown, with a large interstate ramp right next to it, etc.  I actually think this is a BETTER location than Parker Flats- QCS is looking to add two restaurants- you are right next to the banks, etc.

 

3rd and Broadway is within 1.5 blocks from the banks, the riverfront, GABP, the Arena, Serpentine wall, etc.  It's less than half a block from Lytle Park.  It's the same distance as Parker Flats to fountain square and the center of downtown- etc. If you put the parking on the southern end of the building for 3-4ish stories and then have the condos set slightly back (say the northern 2/3 of the property - perhaps put a pool/outdoor area above the garage on the southern end) and have a 14-15 story high-rise of condos no on would complain that there are two lanes of I-71 relatively close to their building.

 

 

^ I don't know. Trucks are pretty loud.  And people still blow their horns driving through the tunnel.

Trucks are really only loud when they use their air brakes. Otherwise, they blend in with normal traffic.

^ I don't know. Trucks are pretty loud.  And people still blow their horns driving through the tunnel.

?  I don't think I've ever been in the tunnel when that's happened.  Why would people blow their horns in the tunnel?

Trucks are really only loud when they use their air brakes. Otherwise, they blend in with normal traffic.

 

Those are actually the "jake brakes" you are talking about.  They are type of engine brake not a wheel brake.  Some truckers use them unnecessarily because of the commotion they create.  (Think teenaged boys with glass packs.)

 

I like OCTo's idea.  Sounds workable and reasonable.

Anna Louise Inn gets approvals

2:37 PM, Jul. 6, 2011 

 

 

The Anna Louise Inn, an affordable housing facility for women, has the approvals it needs from the city of Cincinnati to start a $12.4 million renovation, but work won’t begin any time soon.

 

A pending lawsuit filed in May by Western & Southern Financial Group is keeping work from moving forward, according to the inn’s owners, Cincinnati Union Bethel. The non-profit is working to transform the 102-year-old inn’s aging dormitory-style rooms into 85 updated efficiency apartments for women.

 

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110706/BIZ01/307060112/

The Downtown Residents Community Council board and membership both unanimously voted in support of Cincinnati Union Bethel and their stewardship of the Anna Louise Inn.  It is a recognition that they have been great neighbors for over 100 years despite the lies and half truths put forward by Western & Southern (who BTW have decided not to speak to our organization or answer questions about their stance on the matter while CUB representatives have made it a point to present their case and answer questions on many occasions).  Has anyone heard how the motion to dismiss ruling went today?