^I actually think the CBC of today likes being backroom brokers of sorts. They don't really dabble in economic development as much as they do in public and regional policy decisions.

 

Yup

Western & Southern wins round in Anna Louise Inn fight

Business Courier by Dan Monk, Senior Staff Reporter

Date: Friday, May 4, 2012, 3:00pm EDT

 

 

A Hamilton County Judge has ordered the city of Cincinnati to reconsider a zoning decision that would have allowed Cincinnati Union Bethel to complete a $12.4 million expansion of the Anna Louise Inn.

 

The ruling by Judge Norbert Nadel is a victory for Western & Southern Financial Group, which has offered to acquire the 103-year-old home for abused women so the building can be converted to luxury condominiums.

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/05/04/western-southern-wins-round-in-anna.html

^Disappointing.

Hey, nobody said increasing residential downtown was going to come without sacrifices. And being completely honest here, I think many of us can agree that many of these social service agencies can have their needs better met outside of downtown/OTR where they are housed in aging, functionally obsolete buildings.

^ Could not disagree more with regards to a successful, functional non-profit who does not want to leave its location (as opposed to City Gospel Mission).  Bullying out non-profits with a litany of lawsuits is a horrible way to promote repopulating downtown.

Hey, nobody said increasing residential downtown was going to come without sacrifices. And being completely honest here, I think many of us can agree that many of these social service agencies can have their needs better met outside of downtown/OTR where they are housed in aging, functionally obsolete buildings.

Agreed.  (Isn't W&S probably coveting this location for the city's next skyscraper?)

^ Could not disagree more with regards to a successful, functional non-profit who does not want to leave its location (as opposed to City Gospel Mission).  Bullying out non-profits with a litany of lawsuits is a horrible way to promote repopulating downtown.

 

They actually did want to move and offered to sell to W&S. On the other hand,  W&S just sat on that offer. You know the expression, "you snooze you lose" well maybe that should apply here, LOL.

 

The Inn could take that construction money add that to what W&S would give for the land and they could have a very nice place outside of downtown.  I'm sure W&S can throw in some extra cash if needed. The Inn could really make this a big win for themselves if they played it right.

Hey, nobody said increasing residential downtown was going to come without sacrifices. And being completely honest here, I think many of us can agree that many of these social service agencies can have their needs better met outside of downtown/OTR where they are housed in aging, functionally obsolete buildings.

Agreed.  (Isn't W&S probably coveting this location for the city's next skyscraper?)

 

I hope not, especially when they own that huge block on Third Street where their garage (with the spinning clock) is. I thought that was their target location for a new skyscraper. The Anna Louise building, which is a beautiful, historic building, would be converted into residential condos, per W&S's plan.

 

When it's all said and done, I'd be willing to bet that W&S gets the property and the inn gets a nice new, bigger building somewhere uptown.

This thread is for the 3rd & Broadway garage which W&S has said they want to replace with a skyscraper.

 

The Anna Louise Inn (subject of the recent post) is a 4 story historic building in Lytle Park and has been open since 1906. There are no plans (nor is it possible) to replace the Anna Louise Inn building with a skyscraper (historic building, on top of I-71).

 

 

Wasn't sure where else to stick this....

 

Tunnel work would upgrade Lytle Park

Enquirer exclusive: Renovation underneath could boost plans for development around park

12:10 AM, Aug. 9, 2012 

Written by Jason Williams

 

 

A $34 million renovation to Lytle Tunnel could jump-start the overhaul of a historic park and spur the development of new restaurants, apartments and condominiums in eastern Downtown.

 

“This whole thing could become a city unto itself,” said Western & Southern chief executive officer John Barrett. W&S owns several properties around the park.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120808/BIZ/308100003&Ref=AR

So ffw to 2014...during park reconstruction a bulldozer hits a wall of the Anna Louise Inn by "accident"...

I was thinking the same thing!

 

Dare I bring up the Smitty's fire?

Dare I bring up the Smitty's fire?

 

That was quite suspicious.

Except that the Smitty's fire didn't do anything other than help Smitty's get a huge insurance payout.  All he did was move half a block down the street into a new storefront.  If the goal was for 3CDC to "burn" him out of the neighborhood they failed as he got a huge insurance payout and then opened a new storefront next door.  I don't see how that would work as a conspiracy to get rid of him...

So ffw to 2014...during park reconstruction a bulldozer hits a wall of the Anna Louise Inn by "accident"...

 

Also, W&S wants that building, not just that location.  Keeping it intact is kind of important if you want to make it condos...

I don't understand why people have such an issue with W&S buying and moving the Inn. It's a win for ALL stakeholders. You increase the Tax base of Cincinnati, you have more tax money to pay for services to help the disadvantaged. And get an up to date facility to better serve the people the Inn wants to help.

I'm not opposed to the AL Inn moving. I'm opposed to W&S bullying them and the city to get their way. Its dirty and corrupt.

Ditto, AL Inn has said repeatedly they do not want to sell.

Ditto, AL Inn has said repeatedly they do not want to sell.

 

Which is a dumb decision when all factors are taken into account.  I don't like W&S bullying them anymore than the next guy, but it's almost like they are turning down a ton of cash because they want to be a thorn in the city's side, like the Drop-Inn.  Their decision not to sell, then move, expand, upgrade, and help more people is mind boggling and can't be anything other than an anti-gentrification stance based on some outdated social policy of the 1970's. 

I don't understand why people have such an issue with W&S buying and moving the Inn. It's a win for ALL stakeholders. You increase the Tax base of Cincinnati, you have more tax money to pay for services to help the disadvantaged. And get an up to date facility to better serve the people the Inn wants to help.

 

I agree, this seems like a win/win for everybody.  I think that people forget that the Anne Louis Inn was trying to sell to W&S, but then W&S just dragged their tails on the offer.  For the money Ann Louise Inn would receive, they could have a larger and nicer facility, W&S can restore the building, and of course the tax base is increased. I'm sure this all could have been worked out. 

But it's still Anna Louise Inn's decision to make. And they said no. W&S won't drop it, and that makes them just as bad as COAST is with the Streetcar issue. ... whiny people who can't take no (or in the streetcar's case, yes) for an answer.

Ditto, AL Inn has said repeatedly they do not want to sell.

 

Which is a dumb decision when all factors are taken into account.  I don't like W&S bullying them anymore than the next guy, but it's almost like they are turning down a ton of cash because they want to be a thorn in the city's side, like the Drop-Inn.  Their decision not to sell, then move, expand, upgrade, and help more people is mind boggling and can't be anything other than an anti-gentrification stance based on some outdated social policy of the 1970's. 

 

Wow. What an utter lack of compassion, and--perhaps--misunderstanding.

 

This has nothing to do with anti-gentrification. W&S low-balled Anna Louise Inn several times in the past, offering them prices way too low for it to make since, or be responsible, for them to sell. Then, after Anna Louise Inn lined up financing to do a rehab, W&S started their bullying because they realized the Inn might be staying around for a while. Their actions have been so extreme that I doubt the board of Anna Louise would ever, ever consider selling to them--and I certainly hope they never do. Sell it to anyone else to make condos or whatever, but W&S should not be given the honor.

Ya- I'm all About getting rid of the drop, lords gym, etc, but moving women who are recovering from abuse & escaping prostituiton to 13 & Walnut (W&S proposal) which is a street corner covered by drunk violent men is idiotic.  90 women in transitional housing is great & does not hurt downtown at all. If W&S needs to build new condos take down their ugly @ss parking garage at 3rd & broadway and build condos!

Ditto, AL Inn has said repeatedly they do not want to sell.

 

Which is a dumb decision when all factors are taken into account.  I don't like W&S bullying them anymore than the next guy, but it's almost like they are turning down a ton of cash because they want to be a thorn in the city's side, like the Drop-Inn.  Their decision not to sell, then move, expand, upgrade, and help more people is mind boggling and can't be anything other than an anti-gentrification stance based on some outdated social policy of the 1970's. 

 

Wow. What an utter lack of compassion, and--perhaps--misunderstanding.

 

This has nothing to do with anti-gentrification. W&S low-balled Anna Louise Inn several times in the past, offering them prices way too low for it to make since, or be responsible, for them to sell. Then, after Anna Louise Inn lined up financing to do a rehab, W&S started their bullying because they realized the Inn might be staying around for a while. Their actions have been so extreme that I doubt the board of Anna Louise would ever, ever consider selling to them--and I certainly hope they never do. Sell it to anyone else to make condos or whatever, but W&S should not be given the honor.

 

Lack of compassion? It's my opinion that Anna Louise could sell and improve their services in a new facility but are instead exacting revenge on W&S (as per your comment). You may disagree with that, but there's no need to be insulting.

Lack of compassion? It's my opinion that Anna Louise could sell and improve their services in a new facility but are instead exacting revenge on W&S (as per your comment). You may disagree with that, but there's no need to be insulting.

 

I found your original comment insulting. Reread your original comment and tell me that it is sensitively worded.

Ditto, AL Inn has said repeatedly they do not want to sell.

 

Which is a dumb decision when all factors are taken into account.  I don't like W&S bullying them anymore than the next guy, but it's almost like they are turning down a ton of cash because they want to be a thorn in the city's side, like the Drop-Inn.  Their decision not to sell, then move, expand, upgrade, and help more people is mind boggling and can't be anything other than an anti-gentrification stance based on some outdated social policy of the 1970's. 

 

Wow. What an utter lack of compassion, and--perhaps--misunderstanding.

 

This has nothing to do with anti-gentrification. W&S low-balled Anna Louise Inn several times in the past, offering them prices way too low for it to make since, or be responsible, for them to sell. Then, after Anna Louise Inn lined up financing to do a rehab, W&S started their bullying because they realized the Inn might be staying around for a while. Their actions have been so extreme that I doubt the board of Anna Louise would ever, ever consider selling to them--and I certainly hope they never do. Sell it to anyone else to make condos or whatever, but W&S should not be given the honor.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but the majority of the money for the renovation is coming from the state and the city of Cincinnati. The Inn is only paying for a small portion of the renovation. Which brings up a point we should all be concerned with, is renovating a 100 plus year old building the best use of tax dollars? or is it better to build a new modern facility maybe it would cost less and serve more people. Saving tax dollars.

 

 

Except that the Smitty's fire didn't do anything other than help Smitty's get a huge insurance payout.  All he did was move half a block down the street into a new storefront.  If the goal was for 3CDC to "burn" him out of the neighborhood they failed as he got a huge insurance payout and then opened a new storefront next door.  I don't see how that would work as a conspiracy to get rid of him...

 

Collusion is a possibility in my mind.  Just as we don't know if there was anything fishy to the situation, if there indeed was, we wouldn't know the exact terms of such an agreement.  Observing the situation step by step, including the fact that the edifice burned so badly, there are things to wonder about.  Smitty getting an insurance claim does not prove that it wasn't intentional or that third parties were involved that may or may not be 3CDC.  Smitty's Flashing World was an eyesore and a disruption to many, including the crowd that 3CDC is trying to attract to OTR.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the majority of the money for the renovation is coming from the state and the city of Cincinnati. The Inn is only paying for a small portion of the renovation. Which brings up a point we should all be concerned with, is renovating a 100 plus year old building the best use of tax dollars? or is it better to build a new modern facility maybe it would cost less and serve more people. Saving tax dollars.

 

On the issue of renovation vs new construction, considering most buildings we build these days will in no way, shape, or form last 100 years, one can argue that would be a waste of tax dollars.  At least buildings built prior to WWII have the potential to last for many more generations, hense maximizing any investment made in them.  Just my opinion.

W&S wants to renovate the Anna louise inn into condos, not tear it down. They want the same building as old buildings are much better and more attractive (high in demand) than cheap new construction.

 

This 3CDC burning down smitty's conspiracy is hilarious. The 1132 bar is way worse than smitty's, Biffs is way worse than smitty's, why the hell would an organization risk all it's credibility to burn down a clothing shop just to have it reopen next door.  they wouldn't.

 

Also, I've been told that the timeline for 3rd & broadway is:

 

Build new 750 space garage at 7th & culvert, once it opens tear down 3rd & broadway garage and start construction on garage & condos on top.

 

The 7th & culvert garage might start construction next spring.

W&S wants to renovate the Anna louise inn into condos, not tear it down. They want the same building as old buildings are much better and more attractive (high in demand) than cheap new construction.

 

This 3CDC burning down smitty's conspiracy is hilarious. The 1132 bar is way worse than smitty's, Biffs is way worse than smitty's, why the hell would an organization risk all it's credibility to burn down a clothing shop just to have it reopen next door.  they wouldn't.

 

Also, I've been told that the timeline for 3rd & broadway is:

 

Build new 750 space garage at 7th & culvert, once it opens tear down 3rd & broadway garage and start construction on garage & condos on top.

 

The 7th & culvert garage might start construction next spring.

 

Have you ever worked in the public sector?  You'd be surprised at what messes are made that never make the papers.

 

No one said it was true, but do I believe it was suspicious that Smitty's burned down, nothing else, just that his establishment burned?  Yes, I'm absolutely suspicious.

^Ludicrous. Smittys had a million lights outside and inside, and was one of the just a few occupied buildings in that block before 3CDC began renovations. It was an electrical fire that was thankfully confined to just one building. The fact that Smittys reopened a block away, and that there are much more unsavory businesses in OTR than Smittys ever was/is should be enough to dispel conspiracy theories, but I guess fiction is more entertaining than fact.

^Ludicrous. Smittys had a million lights outside and inside, and was one of the just a few occupied buildings in that block before 3CDC began renovations. It was an electrical fire that was thankfully confined to just one building. The fact that Smittys reopened a block away, and that there are much more unsavory businesses in OTR than Smittys ever was/is should be enough to dispel conspiracy theories, but I guess fiction is more entertaining than fact.

 

I'm suspicious of the fire, Smitty's reopening in a toned-down fashion down the street is not what I'm concerned about.  I think you equate a suspicious fire with the victim relocating miles away or going out of business.  These things can be exclusive.  Is critiquing what wasn't said more entertaining than responding to what was written?

^ I worked in government for 6 years before switching to non-profits last fall.  What I learned is these conspiracy's are even more hilarious because local governments have way too few resources and are way too "under the gun" to orchestrate and keep secret the hilarious conspiracy's people equate them with. You think the Cincinnati Fire Department is on it for not reporting it as Arson? or that 3CDC hired such pro's it was unnoticeable to trained investigators?

 

Please explain to me why 3CDC would risk their entire existence on burning down a business that did absolutely nothing bad other than seem a little gaudy and over the top, but has yet to burn down/take down the 1132 bar or Biffs or 13th and Walnut which are legitimately disrupting the neighborhood.  There is no answer because there is no conspiracy.  It's hilarious to hear this as I've laughed about this theory with several VP's at 3CDC who are long term friends of mine.

 

Alright- back on topic...  3rd & Broadway...

It's not as if 3CDC would have to explicitly be in on it. There could be suggestions, winks and nods,  or even the perception of those in their absence.  I agree the whole thing looks suspicious. How many years was Smitty's operating with no problems? Then once development is creeping up Vine, boom, a problem with the wires. It's suspicious, but we will probably never know more about it, if there is anything more.

It's not as if 3CDC would have to explicitly be in on it....It's suspicious, but we will probably never know more about it, if there is anything more.

 

CincyGuy, this is what I've been saying.  A fire can be suspicious without 3CDC being involved, right?

 

Let's pretend it was arson done by an amateur.  Whose to say that amateur wouldn't be familiar with the building and knew what would cause an electrical overload large enough to create a spark.  Again, this doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with 3CDC.

 

Corruption in the public sector isn't created equal.  Acts of corruption are often are not predicated on cash exchange, but the promise of benefit from an external source.

It's just as suspicious as when any house catches on fire that hasn't caught on fire in the last 50 years.  What is the point!?!?! Why burn down Smitty's just to have him move 2 store fronts down and reopen? It wasn't like there was crime caused by Smitty's like there is by the 1132 bar and Biff- the same amount of people loiter at 15th and Vine as did before it burned down.  If anyone did anything it was Smitty's themselves (even that is unlikely), not some super secret job where 3CDC sat back and let black ops navy SEAL's sneak in at night and splice some wires to let it burn down. If that was the case, why wouldn't everyone just burn down every moderately ghetto building in OTR that is in the way of development?  Get real.

 

The idea that pro-development people burned down Smitty's just to get rid of a few obnoxious and over the top signs is hilarious. 

 

 

 

Has anyone been to little italy in NYC or the Garment district in LA?  There are a million places that make Smitty's look tame there.  No one was going to burn down Smitty's just to get rid of a couple signs.

 

And for historical perspective- View from 6th Street up Vine circa 1970

 

Tying everything back to topic...

 

3rd & Broadway garage circa 2003.  303 Broadway is just beginning construction and the old giant garage where QCS is obviously still there.  Great to think that in a total of 15 years (including a massive recession) this will have gone from two giant garages and a surface lot to two office towers and a condo tower.

 

I don't know what the motivations might have been, if there were any. The timing is just fishy. It caused property to change hands and insurance money to be awarded. Someone might have felt they would benefit from a fire.

 

I'm not going to discuss this any further, because it's pointless to speculate. But it seems silly to think everything is obviously kosher here. It doesn't even take a transitioning neighborhood for someone to desire insurance money (for example).

Occam's razor famously states, all things being equal, the simplest answer is better than the complex answer.  Either, a beat up old building covered in dozens and dozens of hazardous mercury-filled light fixtures with exposed out-door wiring happened to catch on fire, or an elaborate scam took place between multiple parties including the fire department in order to move on business half a block up for the purpose of removing several over the top signs.

 

I know which one I believe :)

It's just as suspicious as when any house catches on fire that hasn't caught on fire in the last 50 years.  What is the point!?!?! Why burn down Smitty's just to have him move 2 store fronts down and reopen? It wasn't like there was crime caused by Smitty's like there is by the 1132 bar and Biff- the same amount of people loiter at 15th and Vine as did before it burned down.  If anyone did anything it was Smitty's themselves (even that is unlikely), not some super secret job where 3CDC sat back and let black ops navy SEAL's sneak in at night and splice some wires to let it burn down. If that was the case, why wouldn't everyone just burn down every moderately ghetto building in OTR that is in the way of development?  Get real.

 

The idea that pro-development people burned down Smitty's just to get rid of a few obnoxious and over the top signs is hilarious. 

 

 

This post should be considered textbook on how to give a calm dialogue an unnecessarily aggressive turn.

 

You're the only one dreaming up Hollywood conspiracy scenarios, I say that because thus far, you're the only one who's mentioned any.  I'm personally curious about the circumstances of the fire.  We can agree to disagree.

that Vine St. pic absolutely blows my mind. I've been looking at it for like 15 minutes. incredible.

  Sorry, what is this about TWO office towers and a condo?! Have I missed something? When will they be built?

QCS & 303 Broadway are already built. Next is the supposed condo tower replacing the clocked parking garage.

^ i was always always under the impression W&S was planning on building a new headquarters in that area. Was that ever a possibly? or do they have plans for a new HQ's in another spot? Or were they never planning a new HQ? High rise condos seem like a real tough sell right now, even in a couple of years from now.

^theyve been really unclear. The most recent quotes were condos on that site, but it could

Very well be an office

W&S might be acting as though this is going to be a condo tower in order to hide a plan to build a new corporate headquarters.  It keeps parties interested in building a new tower on spec guessing as to what they're doing. 

 

 

Very relevant article on the current discussion. I think this company deserves a lot more support for what they have done for this city and what they want to do to make it a great city.

 

 

In a Q&A, W&S chief talks about his vision, image, and why he's so bullish on the region

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120812/BIZ/308120017/Barrett-likes-view?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

 

Good grief.  He's taking credit for everything, as usual.  Meanwhile, this is the first I've heard of a garage at 7th & Culvert St.  This is a pretty interesting news, because it seems to me that they're putting pressure on P&G.  We've speculated a lot on here about P&G building another tower, and it seems to me that he wants a card to play when that happens. 

He's very very conceited and happily pissing off everyone else downtown.  BUT it is always great to have someone championing downtown development, committed to downtown, and for a conservative to be championing how great downtown is becoming and will continue to become.