Boy, where to begin. Yeah, let them leave, Cincy needs to be number one is something so how about number one in poverty. Let's chase these middle class folks away because they have zero tolerance for crime. Where could they go? I hear West Chester calling with open arms and hands in their wealthy wallets. Yeah, Cincy doesn't need anyone with money living in the City. What to do with these stately homes? I hear the Drop-In Center calling, I hear the Jesus freaks want to "save" people, where could they build yet another home base. What better than the city, where all the poor people already are? Let's turn all of Cincy into one Giant Social Service Agency. We can help so many people.

 

Too each their own, but to expect people to just grin and bare it, is what's killing the city's neighborhoods.

Boy, where to begin. Yeah, let them leave, Cincy needs to be number one is something so how about number one in poverty. Let's chase these middle class folks away because they have zero tolerance for crime. Where could they go? I hear West Chester calling with open arms and hands in their wealthy wallets. Yeah, Cincy doesn't need anyone with money living in the City. What to do with these stately homes? I hear the Drop-In Center calling, I hear the Jesus freaks want to "save" people, where could they build yet another home base. What better than the city, where all the poor people already are? Let's turn all of Cincy into one Giant Social Service Agency. We can help so many people.

 

Too each their own, but to expect people to just grin and bare it, is what's killing the city's neighborhoods.

 

Talk about taking something out of context...

 

If anything, the reason of city failure is due to listening only to a certain group.  Cities should provide assistance towards all groups and work to bring together the haves and have-nots while denouncing stereotypes and fear.

Dude, nobody's saying drive the middle-class off.  We're talking about balancing the needs of thousands of families negatively impacted by shutting down the stairs, against not the needs, but the incorrect perceptions of a handful of people.

 

Where in the living f*** do you get Leaving Stairs Open = One Giant Social Service Agency?  Dude, you're arguing against god knows what, but it ain't the stairs issue...

Boy, where to begin. Yeah, let them leave, Cincy needs to be number one is something so how about number one in poverty. Let's chase these middle class folks away because they have zero tolerance for crime. Where could they go? I hear West Chester calling with open arms and hands in their wealthy wallets. Yeah, Cincy doesn't need anyone with money living in the City. What to do with these stately homes? I hear the Drop-In Center calling, I hear the Jesus freaks want to "save" people, where could they build yet another home base. What better than the city, where all the poor people already are? Let's turn all of Cincy into one Giant Social Service Agency. We can help so many people.

 

Too each their own, but to expect people to just grin and bare it, is what's killing the city's neighborhoods.

 

I understand where you're coming from, in a way. But calling folks who live on Key's Crescent "middle class" is just silly.

I have posted about this a couple of times in the Random thread, but it's apparent that the only reason for this closure is crime.  It seems that all of the other concerns aren't even being addressed.  And five years?  Is that lengthy of a period of time necessary to study this?  My prediction is that the city will completely forget about this and that the steps will be closed forever.

 

To see the stories in the Random thread, search within that thread for "Collins Ave".

 

From the 9/8/06 Enquirer:

 

 

Council votes to close steps

THE ENQUIRER

 

EAST WALNUT HILLS - The Collins Avenue steps will be closed after all.

 

A majority of Cincinnati City Council voted Thursday to close a 300-yard set of hillside steps, leading from William Howard Taft Road to an upscale street off Madison Road called Keys Crescent in East Walnut Hills.

 

The steps have been a source of controversy, with some of the residents atop the hill saying it contributes to crime, and the residents at the bottom saying law-abiding citizens use the steps to get to school, shops and bus stops.

 

Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz sponsored an ordinance that ordered the steps closed for five years. A crime analysis will be performed after that to see if the steps contribute to crime.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060908/NEWS01/609080409/1056

 

The Collins Avenue steps should be closing later this year.  The CPD will be collecting crime stats from before and from during the closure and will report them to City Council in late 2011 to gauge the impact the closure has on crime, if any.

 

So frickin' stupid.  Are they ripping the steps up too, or are they just going to put little "Steps Closed" signs on chains across the top and bottom?  'Cause you know criminals respect such signs...Jeezel.

 

   

     "I have recently thought that the "flying pig" marathon people (or similar minded folks) would have a field day with an event featuring some of these."

 

    Serious runners normally don't do steps. You can't pass people easily, a normal running pace does not match the step spacing, etc. The steps are too narrow for any amount of people, and there's always a falling hazard.

 

    On the other hand, there used to be a Cincinnati hill climb series: Straight Street, Monastery, Grand, Colerain, etc: all steep uphill races.

 

Straight Street and the Hill Climb Series is making a comeback this year. Checkout: http://www.StraightStreetHillClimb.com

Closing the collins ave steps was a bad move!!!  Cole and crowley were the only ones to write me back supporting NOT closing the steps. Leslie  Jizz sucks!! and I voted for that piece of crap!! :x I can no longer hike the steps  which are 2 hikes away  in my "Cincinnati steps book" East walnut hills are a bunch of rich snobs, all except riverviewer and a few others here.. :wink:

 

Sorry had to vent....

The pot ordinance & the steps in one day.

Seems Cecil Thomas response to everything is more law - less freedom.

Man is a psychopath.

Ghiz crabbing about the mayor every inch of the way is nothing but counterproductive.

Berding & Bortz ....

I had high hopes for this council but they seem to be working out of the Dick Cheney handbook.

East walnut hills are a bunch of rich snobs, all except riverviewer and a few others here.. :wink:

 

Hey, I live in Walnut Hills, not East Walnut Hills!  You could as easily call someone from Madisonville a Mariemont resident!

 

</feigned outrage>

 

Actually, the issue with the Collins steps isn't the residents of East Walnut Hills generally - it's the residents of Keys Crescent, which is among the most wealth-dense streets in the city...that and the complete pussification of council...I mean, I have yet to hear of a single actual crime committed on Keys Crescent with the aid of the steps, let alone one committed with the aid of the steps that couldn't be committed today with a "Steps Closed" sign hanging there...gah...

Actually, the issue with the Collins steps isn't the residents of East Walnut Hills generally - it's the residents of Keys Crescent, which is among the most wealth-dense streets in the city...that and the complete pussification of council...I mean, I have yet to hear of a single actual crime committed on Keys Crescent with the aid of the steps, let alone one committed with the aid of the steps that couldn't be committed today with a "Steps Closed" sign hanging there...gah...

 

You'd think that people who, a few years back, wanted to instal "much-needed" automatic ticket giving cameras on the stoplights all over town would be willing to spring for a couple of motion activated cameras and streetlights.  They are total wusses.

You'd think that people who, a few years back, wanted to instal "much-needed" automatic ticket giving cameras on the stoplights all over town would be willing to spring for a couple of motion activated cameras and streetlights.  They are total wusses.

 

We are trying to do exactly that on the 29 Mulberry Steps.  It is a different type of camera that we are using, it is a flashcam, used to discourage and catch people who are dumping garbage.  We are attempting to kill two birds with one stone, one discourage crime that has happened on those steps, two discourage people from utilizing Peete st as a dump site.  Flashcams by the way are a motion activated camera that takes a single shot of anyone who crosses its path.  We hope to have it installed as part of a CPOP measure by summer.

From the 3/15/07 Enquirer:

 

 

Council votes to close steps

THE ENQUIRER

 

Cincinnati City Council voted Wednesday to close the 300-yard Collins Avenue steps that lead from William Howard Taft Road to Keys Crescent.

 

The vote came after months of talk about the steps in community council meetings and at City Hall.

 

Proponents of the closure say the steps contribute to crime, while opponents say the steps are used by law-abiding citizens.

 

Councilwoman Laketa Cole tried to keep the steps open Wednesday, but her motion failed. Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz then brought up her ordinance to close the steps, which passed.

 

Council will vote twice more before the closure goes into effect.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070315/NEWS01/703150401/1056/COL02

 

From the 3/29/07 Enquirer:

 

 

Council votes to close steps

 

After months of discussion, Cincinnati City Council voted Wednesday to close a set of steps that leads from William Howard Taft Road to the Keys Crescent neighborhood off Madison Road.

 

Some residents at the top of the Collins Avenue steps insist the steps invited crime to their neighborhood. But others said they still use the steps and that the steps would be fine if the city would spend the money to fix them up as once was planned.

 

Councilwoman Laketa Cole suggested holding the issue so her neighborhood's committee could talk to Police Chief Tom Streicher about his earlier endorsement of the closure.

 

The delay failed after Councilwoman Leslie Ghiz said council has discussed the steps long enough.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20070329/NEWS01/303290016/

 

I had a change of heart and moved all of the Collins steps stuff over here.  It's both a crime and a transportation issue.  But Cincinnati's steps are part of what makes this a unique place, so they will be featured here.

 

I don't think I missed any of the Collins St articles or comments except for a couple of fragments in the Random Cincinnati thread.  A search for "Collins Ave" should pull those up.

 

Thanks for the consolidation - makes it easier to figure out where to look for this discussion!

 

And still, I have yet to hear of a single step-abetted crime on Keys Crescent, let alone crime being fostered in general...so frustrating...

Most criminals are way too lazy to use 300 yards of steps anyway.

Riverviewer,

 

Are you saying that you have not heard of crime aided by the Collins steps or steps in general.  I do know two families on Keys Crescent and this is going back a year or so ago, they did have a rash of car break-ins that they said the steps were both the ingress and egress routs.

 

On Mulberry we to have had our fair share of crime, from drug running to armed robbery that has occurred on 3 separate stairs, but we are utilizing other measures to stop them. 

^So by that logic we should also remove all sidewalks to make it more difficult for the criminal to get to/away from their crime location.

 

These kinds of allegations may be true, but come on....where do we draw the line??  I have also heard the comments that bike paths facilitate crime.  It is just becoming ridiculous in my mind!

I guess the difference is that steps and bike paths are many times secluded by trees, etc. or  just not parallel to streets; thus have a perception of being dangerous because they arn't in clear sight.

^So by that logic we should also remove all sidewalks to make it more difficult for the criminal to get to/away from their crime location.

 

These kinds of allegations may be true, but come on....where do we draw the line??  I have also heard the comments that bike paths facilitate crime.  It is just becoming ridiculous in my mind!

 

we should probably discontinue bus service as well

lol...You're right on...because I think that statistics would back up the notion that criminals ride bus/rail transit to other areas to commit their crimes.  You know...steal someone's wallet then wait at the bus stop for your ride home....or better yet steal a TV then hop on your bike to get away (now obviously these are extremes, but you get my drift).

It would be interesting to know how much Keys Crescent contributes to certain local political campaigns. I sense a political machine. Those steps may be secluded but there are many other secluded steps and alleys throughout the city that make people susceptible to crime. It's still going to be ineffective to attempt to block the entrance and its giving special consideration to the elite, IMO.

From Easter walks to closings:

City steps prove steep in history

By Nicole Hamilton

 

CINCINNATI – Steps not only link together the City’s diverse neighborhoods but they also set Cincinnati apart from other cities.

With nearly 400 sets of Cincinnati stairways (not including those within the City Parks and Recreation properties), the steps are an important, vital part of the City’s transportation system, says Don Rosemeyer, City Engineer.

 

They are noted tourist attractions for breathtaking city views, favorite exercise spots and places to worship.

 

For many, the steps are an integral part of daily life – and 400 more reasons why Cincinnati is a unique community. Only Pittsburgh has more city stairways.

 

Dayton-native Phillip Ransly, 23, who works for Towne Properties in Mount Adams, uses the public stairways to get to his office at The Monastery on Paul Street. Before moving to Cincinnati, he had no idea such an extensive city-stairway system existed.

 

“It’s pretty amazing,” he says, of the steps. “It seems like everyday I’m finding out things about this City that are really cool – things I would have never known unless I moved here.”

 

One of the most famous sets of Cincinnati steps – the seven flights that connect St. Gregory Street to the Holy Cross-Immaculata Church in Mount Adams – is the sight of the annual

 

Good Friday pilgrimage that leads up to the Church. The tradition of “praying the steps” begins at midnight on Good Friday with a blessing of the steps. For the next 24-hours people of all denominations gather, rosaries in hand, and climb the stairs together in silence.

 

Bill Frantz, 43, pastoral director of Holy Cross-Immaculata Church in Mount Adams says attendance varies.

 

“A lot depends on the weather – but we will get up to 10,000 people [who pray the steps]. People come from hundreds of miles away. ”

Frantz says that this year, the Church will serve donuts and coffee in the morning and host a fish fry at night for those who come to participate.

 

According to Frantz, the pilgrimage to Holy Cross-Immaculata Church started before there was a stairway in place.

In the 1860s, Bishop John Purcell erected a cross where the Church now sits, and those living in The Bottoms, along the Ohio River, would climb the hillside to the cross every Good Friday.

 

This is how many of the earliest hillside steps began – as treacherous and steep footpaths. As the immigrant population of the 1800s moved up hillsides, they erected wooden staircases. According to Anna Dusablon’s book “Walking the Steps of Cincinnati,” some stairs in the Columbia-Tusculum, Norwood and Mount Echo areas were places where Native Americans would gather to watch settlers moving in.

 

At the end of the 1800s, when the trolley car was introduced, more stairways were created to accommodate those living on streets around the inclines.

 

Today, most of the public stairways are maintained by the City’s transportation and engineering department and the Hamilton Country Park Board.

 

According to Rosemeyer, of the 52 Cincinnati communities, 38 have City stairways. The longest one is the Main Street Stairway that eventually connects with the Ohio Avenue Steps that end at Bellevue Hill Park in Clifton Heights. Mount Auburn has the most stairways, although Mount Adams may have the most that are currently open.

 

Rosemeyer says his department performs routine maintenance on the steps, and has developed a Hillside Step Information System, in which every City stairway is inventoried for inspection and repair information. By visiting the City Web site, one can look up the status of any staircase and learn when it was last inspected, how its condition is rated (excellent, good, or fair), and how high of a priority it is on the City’s list of repairs.

 

This is where you can check the status of the Collins Steps – the 300-yard stairway that now links William Howard Taft to Keys Crescent in East Walnut Hills.

 

The Web site lists the Collins Steps as open, but March 28 the City Council voted to close the stairway for at least five years.

advertisement

The decision wasn’t made without a fight. After learning that the Collins Steps would probably be closed – due to a group of East Walnut Hills residents who feared the steps encouraged crime – Doug Davis and other nearby residents launched a passionate and highly-publicized campaign to keep them open.

 

“I used to walk to work almost everyday using those stairs,” says Davis, a retired Procter & Gamble executive. “It’s an important part of our community and there is no reason to close them.”

 

According to City Architects Jack Martin and Tim Jamison, there has never been a study done on city crime in relation to public stairways.

“Crime can happen anywhere,” says Jamison. “There is no evidence that there is more crime in neighborhoods with City steps.”

 

Janet Ach, who lives near Keys Crescent, says she is disappointed that the stairway is closing. Council’s decision, she says, will make it difficult for people to access Metro the bus stop at the foot of the stairs. Ach says commuters are going to have to find an alternative route to William Howard Taft, and for bus riders, it is going to mean having to take more than one bus to get Downtown.

 

Still, she is hopeful something positive will come from the decision.

 

“We want to continue to work with the community which wanted the stairs closed and come to some sort of arrangement,” says Ach. “We are hoping there is still a way for people to continue to use the stairs for legitimate purposes. Of course, we have to work together to keep the stairs free of crime – but that must happen everywhere.”

It’s not unusual, says Rosemeyer, for those living near the public stairways to want them closed. “Some people just don’t like people on the steps,” he says. “Whether it’s because they are afraid of crime or just have a need for more privacy, some [people] just don’t want them.”

 

It’s also not unusual, says Martin, for citizens to oppose the closure of steps in their neighborhoods. The debate around the decision whether or not to close Collins Steps came as no surprise to the City employees. And he says that the City does not close a public stairway without careful consideration and lots community imput.

 

“The process to closing a stairway is long and involved,” says Martin. “Postcards are sent out to residents in the neighborhood and we put notices up around the steps to alert people that they may be closed.”

 

There is a telephone number that stair climbers can call to contest the closing of steps. There is also a hotline number to check the status of the steps. It is 352-STEP (7837).

 

According to City and Parks officials one of the biggest projects in the works currently is the reestablishment of the historic hillside step connection between Mount Adams and the Riverside Drive along the Ohio River.

 

As part of the ongoing effort to make the City more pedestrian friendly, sidewalks along Riverside Drive’s south side were recently widened and new lighting was installed. Eventually, as soon as funds are available says Martin, work will begin to link St. Gregory Street in Mount Adams to the renovated part of Riverside Drive.

 

“Either this summer or next is when we hope to start working on it,” he says.

 

This project will also involve Hamilton County Parks, who maintain the stairways in all the county parks including those in Eden Park, which is along the Mount Adams/Riverside Drive route.

 

Maintenance of stairways within the city’s parks is an ongoing effort, says Steve Schuckman, superintendent of Parks and Planning.

Recently, many stairways in Eden Park were renovated, including a set that runs from Gilbert Avenue to the Cincinnati Art Museum. And Schuckman is currently working with partners in the University of Cincinnati area to make improvements to many of the parks in that area. Many of them, according to Schuckman, are on hillsides and were built as part of the incline for streetcars.

 

Schuckman says they want to renovate stairways along these inclines or perhaps build new ones – as markers of where the incline once was. Says Schuckman: “The City steps are a very important part of our city – we’re always considering the future of the steps.” But he says, “The steps are also a way for us to say, ‘Here’s a part of our rich history.’”

 

Nicole can be reached via e-mail at [email protected].

 

http://www.pulsedt.com/blogs/default.asp?Display=61

 

Walking Steps of Cincinnati

http://www.amazon.com/Walking-Steps-Cincinnati-Mary-Dusablon/dp/0821412272/ref=sr_1_1/103-9535077-3011832?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176209507&sr=1-1

So by that logic we should also remove all sidewalks to make it more difficult for the criminal to get to/away from their crime location.

These kinds of allegations may be true, but come on....where do we draw the line??  I have also heard the comments that bike paths facilitate crime.  It is just becoming ridiculous in my mind!

Excellent question, where do we draw the line.  I can not speak for Keys Crescent, I do not live there.  However I can speak for steps in and around OTR and Mt. Auburn.  Where do we as a community draw the line in our efforts to do anything to stop crime, attract and retain homeowners and provide for a safe and clean environment for both residents and visitors?  When do we say after loosing X number of people to crimes that continuously occur on the same steps, some violent, that we as a community stand for nothing less than both the feeling and reality of safety.  Do we draw the line at armed robbery, how about 2?  Do we draw the line at car breakins? do we draw the line at drug running? do we draw the line at prostitution pick up and drop off points? Or do we wait for something worse, perhaps it will take a murder on an enclosed set of steps for us to say ok, I will draw the line now.

I believe it is up to the ones who are most affected by the activity that is occurring on the steps to say where that line is drawn.  I live next to the Frintz st Steps.  I drew the line at drug running and a crackhead on the steps saying that she would have my wife and myself killed on those steps.  We had them cleared on both sides, and put under camera surveillance 24 hours a day.  A neighbor of mine drew the line at a gun being pointed to his and his girlfriends head when they were entering their home via a set of steps.  He is putting up cameras as well as additional lighting up and down their steps.  However what do we do if this does not stop, do we move to 24 hour police patrols on the steps?  You tell me. 

I draw the line at safety, I draw the line at keeping  residents that we almost (and still may) loose.  So do not just sit here and pretend that people are closing steps just to spite you, you tell me how to correct these issues in other ways.  If you want to shoot down one solution, that is ok, but present me with an alternative because we will not just sit back and do nothing.

Michael, I was talking about the Collins steps.  We've discussed the various OTR steps upthread, and I think you and I agreed about both our concerns and your solutions.

 

But regading the Collins steps - thank you for being the first person I've seen to give actual crimes so we can discuss reality rather than theory.

 

I love you "draw the line" observations above, and agree with you - so let's apply that to Collins.  Shall we draw the line at allegations that the steps may have been used in a year-old rash of car break-ins?  I think the answer is obvious, but we may disagree.

 

Second point - I believe there are options between "do nothing" and "close the steps."  Like what you're doing in OTR - clearing, lighting, cameras...I believe the steps are valuable enough a community resource to warrant a little money get spent on upkeep, and on security upgrades.  And I would never argue that closing problem steps is completely off the table.  I just despair when the first solution is to shut down public rights-of-way.  Especially on such flimsy grounds.

I love your "draw the line" observations above, and agree with you - so let's apply that to Collins.  Shall we draw the line at allegations that the steps may have been used in a year-old rash of car break-ins?  I think the answer is obvious, but we may disagree.

 

Second point - I believe there are options between "do nothing" and "close the steps."  Like what you're doing in OTR - clearing, lighting, cameras...I believe the steps are valuable enough a community resource to warrant a little money get spent on upkeep, and on security upgrades.  And I would never argue that closing problem steps is completely off the table.  I just despair when the first solution is to shut down public rights-of-way.  Especially on such flimsy grounds.

 

I do not know what the line was for those particular steps, for some it obviously was car breakins.  I personally have a higher tolerance I guess and this alone would not have been enough for me to push for closure, and perhaps a single incident would not be enough for me to push any response.  But I have to admit, I  do not know what all has happened on Keys Crescent, I had heard of the breakins, not the frequency and nothing beyond that.

 

I believe in phased but immediate responses to such crimes.  But how we phase it is dependent on the severity and the frequency of the crime.  I do not know about Collins, but taking it at face value, I would have tried other measures but I would not stop implementing new, stepped up measures if the first did not prevent further crimes.  I would not stop at anything, no limit, closure or flat out removal.

 

But as I said above, the decision should be up to the ones who are most immediatly affected by the problem, and generally this is the adjacent property owners.  I gave the instance of the 29 steps above, but ultimatly I feel that it is up to 29 and 31 Mulberry (and even out further) who ultimatly should decide what action they are going to take to remedy the problem, not me--they have my support, not my dictate.

 

clearing, lighting, cameras...I believe the steps are valuable enough a community resource to warrant a little money get spent on upkeep, and on security upgrades.

Actually this was not my idea originally.  When a crime happens the first knee jerk reaction is a nuclear response.  Some people run with this and perhaps they did on Collins but many people do not realize there are other options, and I do not know if any "best practices" were ever shared with the residence of Keys Crescent.

But as I said above, the decision should be up to the ones who are most immediatly affected by the problem, and generally this is the adjacent property owners.

 

This is where we disagree.  Well, we agree in part - I agree that the adjacent property owners should be given a great deal of weight in these situations.  But they are FAR from the only affected parties.  In this case, folks who live in Evanston and East Walnut Hills have lost a public thoroughfare - they too are affected.  And the city in general has lost a part of something that makes the city so special - something that I would imagine predates these folks moving in - from what I could see, none of the current owners on Keys Crescent have lived there longer than the mid-1980's, and I'd imagine the steps have been there far, far longer.

 

To my mind, we should consider the points of view of all parties, follow the guidelines established by city council, and then have someone answerable to the voters make the final decision.  And in the case of the Collins steps, that's exactly what happened - and the steps were kept open.

 

But then Keys Crescent residents twisted some arms, and without any public input that I'm aware of, the city reversed its decision.  And that's just appalling.

 

ESPECIALLY when you consider the rational is supposedly crime, and so far the ONLY crimes I've heard discussed are what you posted: this is going back a year or so ago, they did have a rash of car break-ins that they said the steps were both the ingress and egress routs.  If that's all the crime we're discussing, then that's absurd - cars are broken into all the time when you live in the city - I live nowhere near steps, on a highly traveled road, and my car was busted into in the middle of the day, along with most of the cars on the street.  That happens in a city, and steps have nothing to do with it.

 

And if there is more crime than that, why haven't we heard about it?  Maybe it's been discussed and I just missed it, or the Enquirer didn't report on it, but from the facts I have at hand, this is utterly meritless.

 

Correction - reading back through some older articles, I've heard other crimes discussed - vandalism, some break-ins.  No connection to the steps mentioned, just crimes...and one wonders, of course, which of the half-million dollar houses on the lower section of Taft, or the quarter-million dollar condo on Eastern and Collins - which of those house all the criminals who patrol Keys Crescent looking for fresh meat?

 

Or perhaps it's more likely that folks from the higher crime areas, like parts of Walnut Hills and Evanston, who don't need to use the steps to get to Keys Crescent - perhaps those are the folks doing the crimes?

 

From the articles I read, District 2 police officers and officials from the Department of Transportation agree - they said there's no reason to close down the steps.  That's where I got my mis-impression that no crimes had been discussed - turns out, crimes had been discussed - it's just that nobody made a logical connection to the steps, including the experts.

 

Gah...so frustrating.  And Michael, it just makes your job harder.  It makes folks who see the steps as a problem look like scared rich people, more interested in their perceptions in than in reality, and with zero concern for their community.  It's the exact opposite of everything you are and everything you're doing, and it's not fair, but that's gonna be people's perception when "close the steps" talk comes up...gah...

 

Gah...so frustrating.  And Michael, it just makes your job harder.  It makes folks who see the steps as a problem look like scared rich people, more interested in their perceptions in than in reality, and with zero concern for their community.  It's the exact opposite of everything you are and everything you're doing, and it's not fair, but that's gonna be people's perception when "close the steps" talk comes up...gah...

 

Well this is why I have tried to lay out my point on here.  I believe in our case we can solve the problem without step closure, even a temporary one.  Each circumstance is different and I know that if we were to propose a step closure now, unfair parallels would be drawn but hopefully in our case this will be a mute point.

 

This is where we disagree.  Well, we agree in part - I agree that the adjacent property owners should be given a great deal of weight in these situations.  But they are FAR from the only affected parties.  In this case, folks who live in Evanston and East Walnut Hills have lost a public thoroughfare - they too are affected.  And the city in general has lost a part of something that makes the city so special - something that I would imagine predates these folks moving in - from what I could see, none of the current owners on Keys Crescent have lived there longer than the mid-1980's, and I'd imagine the steps have been there far, far longer.

 

I gave this paragraph some thought and I agree with you that varying weights should be given to all who are affected by something like this.  The only part I have trouble with is the pre-existing condition.  The steps themeselves are pre-existing, no doubt about it, but the problems that are now being attributed to the steps perhaps were not.  Conditions change, and so must your approach to crime prevention.  Now you can certainly argue that their approach is flawed, and only time will tell I suppose in the Collins case, but it is a response vs none. 

 

Now I say none, does anyone know if any alternatives were presented in leu of closing the steps?

Mike, I use those steps, why don't you and your COPS go out and patrol them. Everytime I walk or drive mulberry  I  see drug use and prostitution in cars.  Why don't you just put a gate with a guard booth at both ends of mulberry and every side street. It's funny but all the times I have been on those EVIL steps I have never seen an illegal activity.  :x

Mike, I use those steps, why don't you and your COPS go out and patrol them. Everytime I walk or drive mulberry  I  see drug use and prostitution in cars.  Why don't you just put a gate with a guard booth at both ends of mulberry and every side street. It's funny but all the times I have been on those EVIL steps I have never seen an illegal activity.  :x

 

You sound so angry.  Max, I honestly thought that you would be happy after reading my above post.

I believe in our case we can solve the problem without step closure, even a temporary one.

 

"It's funny but all the times I have been on those EVIL steps I have never seen an illegal activity."

Well if it is a case of not believing me, I can either have you speak directly to the people who have been a victim of aggrevated armed robbery or you could just pull the police report yourself.  But once again, I ask you read what I said above, we are taking measures now to help stop some of the problems that we absolutely are seeing on Sharpe, Frintz, and 29 Steps that at this time, do not include closure. :-D And try to be happier, you will live longer.

 

 

There's an alley in the back of W. Clifton ave. that is pretty secluded because of fences, greenery and garages being up against the path and its basically the same problem. Theres a very high number of car and house break-ins for hte houses up against the alley.

Huste Alley?

Its called Schorr alley on google earth. Its a little creepy back alley in between Wheeler and W. Clifton that leads to McMillan. One person I know may be moving in with us because he said he's sick of it. I've also been to a party on that street and seen the aftermath of someone's car getting busted into DURING A PARTY, and I've heard several other stories so I think there is a valid argument in saying secluded alleys and steps allow criminals to more easily get away with crime but the planning student in me wants to support it for its character and convenience to pedestrians. The difference between the steps, alleys, etc and sidewalks is that sidewalks are much more visible to people driving on the street, walking on the other side, etc. It would be nice if there was a solution for the steps other than turning the site into a 1984-esque police state.

I was thinking East Clifton.

 

The difference between the steps, alleys, etc and sidewalks is that sidewalks are much more visible to people driving on the street, walking on the other side, etc. It would be nice if there was a solution for the steps other than turning the site into a 1984-esque police state.

 

There are a difference between the steps as well.  Some are wide open, or at least can be with some clearing of lots.  Others are sandwiched between buildings and there is nothing we can do about that.  Also keep in mind that  the nature of a step is to fall away from the street so it automatically impairs visibility if no side view is possible.  As I said before, I welcome a solution.  At this point, we simply know there is a problem, we have proposed answers, but not doing anything is not one of them.

It'd be nice if criminals had to actually stay in jail for their crimes. So, instead of revamping out justice system, we discourage walking and build neighborhoods that are allegedly "crime proof" because they take up so much space. Which approach costs more both literally and figuratively?

Hey that was me on the cover of that issue of the Downtowner! They spelled my name incorrectly though...

 

It'd be nice if criminals had to actually stay in jail for their crimes. So, instead of revamping out justice system, we discourage walking and build neighborhoods that are allegedly "crime proof" because they take up so much space. Which approach costs more both literally and figuratively?

 

I agree, the perpetrator of the armed robbery I have been speaking of was 15 and had 11 prior felonies, now he has 12 and will be out in a year or so.  I would love to have the whole criminal justice system overhauled, but do we just sit back and do nothing in the meantime?

Mike, Oops, I forgot to put a  :wink: next to my statement.

You should tell your friends that there is a legal way to protect themselves its called a CHL license and unless you are an excon or have a criminal background you can apply and take the training course. Or they can move many people moved to the suburbs in the 70's and 80's to get away from urban life.

Oh  your empty lots where you had buildings torn down have a couple of tires and beer bottles condoms etc. You are welcome to put the tires under the wisteria across from miltons on Apr 28th if your neighborhood isnt doing the annual cleanup.(didn't see your sector at the town hall meeting.)  :wink: 

:wink: Well this makes me feel better, Max is happy again!

 

You should tell your friends that there is a legal way to protect themselves its called a CHL license and unless you are an excon or have a criminal background you can apply and take the training course.

Conceal and carry? hummm, novel idea, I guess I could just shoot them, never thought of that (actually I have but I need to deny any premeditation to the courts :wink:)

 

 

if your neighborhood isnt doing the annual cleanup.(didn't see your sector at the town hall meeting.)

We are such good friends with Robin and Kerry that we handle things via phone and email.

Speaking of not seeing a sector listed, how bout them Grants KCB awarded;

 

Clifton Heights Bellevue Park project

Price Hill Will

West McMicken Improvement Association

Ludlow Band Boosters

College Hill Business Association

West End Business Association

Silverton Sweet Pea Society Garden Club

Mt. Airy/Northside project (Cindee Walsh)

Roselawn Community Council (Robert Ingberg)

Mulberry Street Sector Group

Hyde Park Residents

Lewisburg Neighborhood Association

Northside Gardeners Row

Hartwell Improvement Association

 

They must not have mentioned that at the town hall meeting huh :wink2:

We are such good friends with Robin and Kerry that we handle things via phone and email.

Speaking of not seeing a sector listed, how bout them Grants KCB awarded

 

That's what friends are for!  www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtGF2m102Wg

Upon further review by friends and colleagues, the post I just erased was just wrong  :roll:

Its called Schorr alley on google earth. Its a little creepy back alley in between Wheeler and W. Clifton that leads to McMillan. One person I know may be moving in with us because he said he's sick of it. I've also been to a party on that street and seen the aftermath of someone's car getting busted into DURING A PARTY, and I've heard several other stories so I think there is a valid argument in saying secluded alleys and steps allow criminals to more easily get away with crime but the planning student in me wants to support it for its character and convenience to pedestrians. The difference between the steps, alleys, etc and sidewalks is that sidewalks are much more visible to people driving on the street, walking on the other side, etc. It would be nice if there was a solution for the steps other than turning the site into a 1984-esque police state.

Looks like Clifton is putting together a COP program.

The CTM contact is [email protected] or at 961-2030

Can anyone tell me if there is a collection of steps in Columbia-Tusculum? It's a neighborhood I've never really scoped out, and I'd imagine it's best to do by car. But if it's possible I'd like to do a walking tour, especially if I can utilize some public steps.

Just to give everyone a heads up, my fiancee and I have started an initiative called Spring in Our Steps, begun to take back forgotten public infrastructure. We focus on alleys, city steps, and neglected stretches of sidewalks.

 

Currently, we're working on East Alley, St. Joe Street, and North Wendell Alley. There is a city steps at St. Joe Street and Wendell Alley, but it is closed. I hope to perhaps get permission from the city to work on it too. Perhaps, if we improve the safety and accessibility of the surrounding area, it could be opened again.

What sort of work are you able to do on the steps?  Many of the ones I've seen that are closed have shifted due to landslides or less dramatic soil creep.  Fixing railings and such, and trimming the honeysuckle shouldn't be terribly difficult, but if there's concrete and stone work to do, that can be rather daunting.

This is a great thread.

 

Check out Blue Line's website: http://springinoursteps.wordpress.com/

 

BTW, I sent you an email Blue Line.

I want to check in here to see who I missed, in terms of identifying people in the group picture with Mayor Mark Mallory, over at the Spring in Our Steps cleanup. We had a tremendous team over at Peete Alley, last Saturday, removing inches of soil, brush, and litter from the cobblestone surface. Let me know who you are, if you're not tagged!

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=178759472243281&set=a.169925203126708.35305.169921193127109&type=1

An article on Cincinnati's Steps from the inimitable P. C. Coston

 

http://www.soapboxmedia.com/features/040312steps.aspx?utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Soapdish%3a+Step+in+time+along+hillside+treks&utm_content=%7bEmail_Address%7d&utm_campaign=Creativity+in+Bloom