Of course Kasich is not popular on this site, but did you even read this article before assuming it was diabolical?

 

"The plan calls for offering discounts on electricity to businesses that create or increase payroll by $5 million or more and add at least 75 permanent new employees in Ohio. Eligible businesses would also have to make a job retention commitment through the duration of the discount and agree to make at least $50 million in bricks-and-mortar investments."

 

That sounds pretty good to me.  I like the incentive aspect as well as the forced retention and the reinvestment requirement...  if anything, it might be too stringent of requirements to entice many businesses to go for it.

 

Or it could just be another move by John "Lord Vader" Kasich to ruin the state...

 

 

How many mom and pop shops do you know that meet those requirements?  How many family run businesses?  Very few on the larger scale of things.  Not many of those employers and job creators will benefit, but everytime Walmart opens up a new store part of their electric bill shifts to the tab of the neighborhood staple down the street it is undercutting straight out of business. 

 

I like the general concept of using strong government incentives to create jobs in the private sector, but I strongly disagree with the method PUCO proposes to fill the gap it will create in the budget.

^I see your point, but Walmart's have been putting mom & pop grocery stores out of business for the last decade, regardless.  How can you incentify small business hiring & expansion, on a level that will support substantial decreases in utility rates? 

 

I think this plan is targeted more at "stealing" office & industrial operations from other states, trying to lure them back to Ohio...  which in theory could jumpstart small businesses nearby if the larger employers made $5 million increases in payroll or $50 million expansions....

I think Hts has the right of it on this one, sadly.  There may be a select few photo ops around large businesses that relocate to the state to take advantage of this energy rebate, but by and large it will be enjoyed primarily by large, existing businesses, particularly high-labor-force ones that might be adding 75+ new permanent employees over that time period anyway.  If they were going to cut rates, they should have cut them by a smaller amount for everyone, not by a large amount for large businesses and effectively raising rates on small businesses and consumers.

 

I agree that the presence of large businesses can actually be a good thing for nearby small businesses--particularly ones that complement, rather than directly compete with, the behemoths.  There have been many studies showing that about Wal-Mart in particular (just because Wal-Mart has become a cause celebre for activists of many political stripes).  However, that doesn't mean that the big players deserve extra breaks from the government on account of that fact.  After all, it works the other way, too: the nearby presence of numerous smaller, complementary businesses also helps the larger one.  I've always been a skeptic of modern political rhetoric's fawning rhetoric about "small businesses," but that doesn't mean that large businesses deserve any special favors, either.

This is a subsidy.  Where is the Ohio GOP bringing down the walls of regulation that they said a year ago was strangling all business in Ohio?  I didn't vote for Kasich but after the dust settled a part of me accepted that we were headed down a certain path.  That path was an Ohio that is "open for business" and "business friendly."  To me bending the rules to lure specific interests to the state wasn't what I had in mind and I doubt it's what all the small business republicans had in mind either.  How about we get something done that helps Ohio small business owners invest in Ohio and quit screwing over everyone else to try and lure small parts of larger corporations playing the national subsidy market game.

I've always been a skeptic of modern political rhetoric's fawning rhetoric about "small businesses,"

 

It's lip service.

I agree with Gramarye.  I hate to say it's a zero sum game, but to some extent it is, based on finite demand.  This is robbing Peter to pay Paul.  Ohio's suburban big-boxes are already doing better than their mom & pop counterparts, which are predominantly within cities and small towns... this policy will only exacerbate the problem. 

 

Wake up, small business.  These people are not your friends. 

Does Ohio have a provision to remove a governor for no-confidence?

No.  Nor has he done anything to warrant removal mid term.

that's why i said 'no confidence' as opposed to a specific crime.

 

Examples of no confidence to lead:

 

a PUCO Policy that charges existing homeowners and business (some of which who are financially struggling) more money to subsidize discounts for others

 

making Ohioans pay approximately $17m so other states can be more economically competitive against the state of ohio (by returning the 3C rail money).

How bout the big win he secured yesterday getting OHio another Fortune 500 HQ

How bout the big win he secured yesterday getting OHio another Fortune 500 HQ

Do you have a link? I missed that.

^ I think he's referring to Omnicare

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110919/BIZ01/309190041/1001

 

I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, I'm happy there's a new company in Ohio. On the other, they moved a total of a mile, for $8MM in incentives, and he's probably started a vicious campaign between KY and OH that other companies are likely going to exploit, to no net benefit for the region.

 

Well, he is following up on his promise to bring companies here. Can't argue w/ that.

Agreed, it has no effect on the Cincinnati region, The city of Cincinnati will get a few payroll dollars and OHio will collect more in tax revenue but does not do anything for the region.

 

Kentucky is going to be struggling to attract new businesses with their new calculation for taxes. I know that there are several other big companies looking at a corporate move for that reason.

 

How can anyone say they aren't sure how they feel about new businesses coming to the area?  Of course they were lured from other regions, near or far away, who cares?  Other regions have been doing this to us for years with no response.  Were you also unsure how you felt when this was going the other way?  Or perhaps you just can't let yourself be happy about new business relocating to the area because John "lord vader" Kasich was responsible for the move? 

If they moved a mile, it's not really "new businesses coming to the area" is it? Either way, I'll give him credit for this even if it's not as big of an accomplishment as one might have hoped.

How can anyone say they aren't sure how they feel about new businesses coming to the area?  Of course they were lured from other regions, near or far away, who cares?  Other regions have been doing this to us for years with no response.  Were you also unsure how you felt when this was going the other way?  Or perhaps you just can't let yourself be happy about new business relocating to the area because John "lord vader" Kasich was responsible for the move? 

 

You might want to unbunch your panties. While I'm not a fan of Kasich's style (at all), I'm on board with most of what he's done to date (with the big exception being his decision to drop 3C). My 'not knowing how I feel' stems from the fact that this generates no new jobs for the region (although they're promising to hire more over the next few years) but gives a nice big incentives package. I'm concerned that this deal (along with others) gives anyone who has the right number of employees a tremendously large piece of leverage to obtain the same types of packages, with no incremental benefit to the state.

 

Let's be clear, Omnicare may be a 'win' for Ohio, but it was low lying fruit. You want to impress me, start telling me how companies want to relocate here from Charlotte, not vice versa, then I'll be impressed.

Unbunch my my panties?  You're the conflicted one, not me.  Did Kasich clarify where jobs were going to come from during his campaign?  Does it really matter if a company comes from 1,000 miles away or 10 miles across the border?  Does it?  You tell me.

If they moved a mile, it's not really "new businesses coming to the area" is it? Either way, I'll give him credit for this even if it's not as big of an accomplishment as one might have hoped.

 

Actually it is a big deal considering now Ohio and Cincy can collect income tax dollars.  I don't care if they moved from an inch away.  If that's the logic, why are we so mad when Eaton left Cleveland for Beachwood.  Is that no big deal either since they are staying in the region. 

^^Yes, it does. The employer from 10 miles away creates no new employment for the region. The one from 1000 miles away does.

 

Also, recruiting from 1,000 miles away (or even better, creating new companies within the state) tells me that the region is truly being successful in establishing a business friendly climate. We're not just shuffling deck chairs.

Low lying fruit is always a good place to start, for the last 20 years we were not even getting that in OH. We were the ones being cherrypicked. Now I would love a BF Goodrich, Meineke, B of A to come here from Charlotte but right now lets celebrate this as a win.

Unbunch my my panties?  You're the conflicted one, not me.  Did Kasich clarify where jobs were going to come from during his campaign?  Does it really matter if a company comes from 1,000 miles away or 10 miles across the border?  Does it?  You tell me.

 

Yes, it does.  As far as increased economic activity for the Cincinnati region a company moving from 1,000 miles away would have a much larger impact than a similar sized company moving from 10 miles across the river.  A company moving from relatively far away is either a) bringing people to the region who will need to buy houses, or b) hiring people from the region to work at its new location.  A company moving across the river is simply moving the location of the office.  No one from Omnicare is going to be forced to buy a new home in Cincinnati based on this move.

^great point Hoot, I agree 100% but we'll take the added tax base of that business which moved across the river won't we?

^Yes, but I also think AJ's concern about creating a "turf war" is a valid one. 

^^I agree. Pissing off your neighbors is never a wise policy. Who here actively harasses/irritates their neighbor without expecting some form of ill will or revenge? I would guess that Kentucky probably has lower taxes than OH....so Cincy should now expect an active campaign by KY to lure businesses there. Why target Charlotte when you can lure a cincy company where companies don't have to find new staff or new homes? So if the move can really be credited to kasich, he may indeed have won today. but tomorrow's another day...

This is not economic development. Even luring a company from 1,000 miles away is not economic development. Any company that can be lured here for tax incentives can just as easily be lured away from here with tax incentives. You can't measure economic activity by counting jobs. Are they full-time? Well-paying? Are they good jobs? Do they generate other economic activity? Are the profits recirculated in the state and the community?

 

This is what bugs me about Kasich. I sat in on his speech yesterday at the Farm Science Review. He doesn't talk about strengthening Ohio communities or improving opportunities for Ohioans. Several times he said "bring jobs to Ohio," as if the only hope for Ohio is to bring in "benefactors" from elsewhere and throw taxpayer dollars at them -- as if Ohioans are incapable of creating jobs themselves, as if Ohioans are only wage slaves so Kasich can take credit for some meaningless number of jobs.

 

In the same speech, he touted the Dannon yogurt factory in Minster, Ohio, as a job-generator. Dannon pays wages to Ohio workers, then sends the profits back to France. He's never once mentioned Snowville Creamery, where a native Ohioan in recent years has generated a $3 million annual payroll in one of the poorest counties in the state, and keeps all those dollars recirculating, and provides the raw ingredients for such other homegrown Ohio businesses as Jeni's Ice Cream. THAT's economic development. Job-poaching is NOT economic development.

^ to his credit, he's supporting Ohio based companies. I'm working with a company right now that is receiving some very nice support from the state to assist them with buying a new building so they can expand. The reps from DOD / JobsOhio, whatever they call themselves, have been active in this neck of the woods getting the word out that the State is here to help.

Cut the governor a break here. He may bring some jobs and residences to Ohio from this (a few people may deceide to move across the river),  more importantly, he succeeeded broadening the tax base to Cincinnati with a premier company and kept them in the region instead of relocating to Atlanta or some other city that would have salivated over them.  At the end of the day  a win is a win. Lets celebrate that.

 

 

As far as a border war, Kentucky started this war many years ago. Back in the 90's they raided Cincinnati of many corporate HQ's. From Omnicare (used to be based in the 5/3 center), Jacor, Castellini companies, US Playing Card, etc - It was not that long ago that Kentucky was cleaning Ohio's clock by poaching many companies and moving them across the bridge. Turnabout now is fair play. So do not worry about Ohio starting a border war, Kentucky has been doing this for years. 

I see this as a win for the Governor.  I don't understand the negativity.  What is the last Fortune 500 that relocated anywhere without tax incentives?  Sure, it is not as impressive as luring a company from a whole other region, but still a win for "Ohio" nonetheless.  That Ky. line might be blurred as far as the Cincy metro is concenred, but it is VERY real in Columbus, as it should be.

I agree that this is not as big a success story as luring a major company from Chicago or somewhere farther afield would have been, but it's nevertheless a success.  It might not be quite as big a success as Kasich's public relations promoters make it out to be, but overplaying a success is hardly an extinct phenomenon in politics (or private-sector PR, for that matter).  It doesn't change the fact that it's still a solid win for Ohio.

 

Don't mock a double just because it wasn't a triple or a home run.

Also, this uniquely positions the Cincinnati area to hold on to corporate HQ's. Yes, it sucks that the company plays two states minutes from each other off one another but it keeps the jobs in the region. It is a much harder pill to swallow when you leave the region altogether. The Ohio Kentucky border war is actually a good hedge for the community.

You miss my point. It's not about the number of jobs or the number of corporate HQ. It's about creating wealth for Ohioans. Not wages, but opportunities. When I heard Kasich speak, his topic was agriculture. But there was very little mention of food. Ohioans spend $30 billion per year on food at stores and restaurants (that does not include food service at schools, universities, hospitals, etc.) and somewhere in the neighborhood of 3-5 percent of that is produced and processed in Ohio. So we have about $27 billion Ohio food dollars leaving the state every year. Yet this governor is not doing anything to promote local food. In fact, he's eliminated Strickland's Ohio Food Policy Advisory Council, the Sustainable Agriculture coordinator and the Farmers Market coordinator, and slashed 75 percent of the Ohio Proud budget, which already was a tiny fraction of what Kentucky spends to promote local food. He eliminated the farmers market at the State Fair. I recently met a vendor who sold $2,000 worth of jellies and jams last year at the fair, and was hurting this year without those sales. But what does Kasich talk about to make agriculture "cool" in Ohio? Trying to get a national hybrid-seed company to set up a presence here to supply the producers of subsidized commodities -- a type of farming that actually has a detrimental effect of local economies.

^ Right on UrbanSurfin !

I can attest the Kentucky Proud local-agriculture scheme is a success. I was doing an article for a magazine a while back and interviewed several farmers who are involved in the Kentucky Proud program, and both have booths at local farmers markets and products for sale throughout the state. Before the program, the farmers were having trouble finding a market for their products - they were having to individually scout out restaurants to carry their product, find retailers to sell their jams, fruits and vegetables and do all of the legwork. When you have thousands of family farms that are small, and where many farmers are part-time, that is a burden that most cannot take on.

 

With Kentucky Proud, they received the assistance and resources necessary to have their products distributed statewide. State parks, which have rebranded and improved restaurants that now serve many local fares, are part of the Kentucky Proud program. There are many restaurants in Lexington and Louisville that sell themselves with the Kentucky Proud/local label - one of them being Alfalfa in downtown Lexington. To them, it just makes economic sense to purchase produce from farms 0-50 miles away, versus having it shipped from other states - excluding other variables such as freshness.

 

Kentucky Proud is also involved in the farmers market programs. Florence is getting a "Findlay-styled" market (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110903/NEWS0103/109040331/Findlay-style-market-planned) although it has no state funding - unfortunately, budget cuts hit that. But you'll find sponsored booths throughout the state, and many products for sale with the "Kentucky Proud" logo. A huge win, and something sorely lacking in Ohio.

 

http://www.kyproud.com/

 

--

 

BTW:

 

OHIO HAS A BRIGHT FUTURE!

Thanks for the info on Kentucky Proud. I knew it was a good program, but didn't have many details. I was on the Ohio Food Policy Advisory Council, and we bemoaned the fact that Ohio did so little compared to Kentucky. It's a model worth emulating.

People have a tendency to think that Kentucky and West Virginia would be overall more conservative states than Ohio, but those two states are often able to come up with intelligent solutions for their issues that aren't so "hard line". The sentiment that I always picked up from people in those states is that Ohio politics is a zoo, even post-"Mess in Frankfort".

The price of being a true swing state is that we really do swing from one end of the spectrum to the other.  Consistency is lacking, but maybe that is a good thing.

Not when each new administration destroys all the work of the previous one, throwing away all the time, money and effort spent.

.... or wasted, depending on how you view those "efforts"

The more we learn about Kasich, the worse it gets. Yesterday, after lots of large animals were gunned down by police, it became clear he undid Strickland's wild animal regulations about allowing new wild animals in to the state, by allowing the executive order to expire. Then today, it seems his private sector 'jobsohio' guy is the on 'outsourcing [to China] team' of a firm with Chinese ties in which he owns interest that has clients that currently employ jobs in Ohio. He apparently willfully did not disclose this on his disclosure forms. He also did not disclose other conflicting relationships.

 

http://www.examiner.com/government-in-columbus/ohio-gov-kasich-jobs-czar-kvamme-attacked-ethics-chargers-from-dem-lawmakers

^OMG, now it's Kasich's fault the nutbag guy had all those animals & killed himself?  Wow

^Regarding the above:

 

"An executive order that Gov. John Kasich allowed to lapse after taking office would have prevented Terry Thompson from owning exotic animals. The order, issued by Gov. Ted Strickland but permitted to expire by Kasich last spring, prohibited anyone who had been “convicted of an offense involving the abuse or neglect of any animal pursuant to any state, local, or federal law” from owning exotic animals. "

 

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/10/19/humane-society-head-wants-ohio-exotic-animal-ban.html

 

But my post was more about Kvamme than the animal issue....

Two people I work with just got jobs in the legal end of the fracking industry.  So +2 for Kasich and his jobs plan.  But I think it likely that any subsequent democratic governor would put an end to fracking, or at least regulate its margins down.  Then again, a second Kasich term might result in enough established fracking jobs that even the greenest of successors might hesitate. 

 

I'm not making value judgments here, just musing.  This could end up being a big issue in Kasich's reelection campaign.  And if it comes down to jobs vs pollution, jobs probably wins.

Republican issues work best when they can divide the people: pollution vs. jobs.

Patriots vs. antiwar skeptics

Christians vs. secularists

Patriots vs. Moslems!

yeah those republicans...

Republican issues work best when they can divide the people: pollution vs. jobs.

Patriots vs. antiwar skeptics

Christians vs. secularists

Patriots vs. Moslems!

Yeah, because none of us on the left don't do that too:

Starving children of the unemployed vs. tax breaks for private jets

My favorite at the moment is "job creators" (rich people regardless if they have worked a single day in their life) vs. "the 99%" (college graduates upset with their current employment options).  That is a showdown for the ages.

^"Job creators"... what a joke.  They're wealth has increased something like 170% since 1970.  Where are the jobs?  Where's the trickle down?  Why has middle class income/wealth not grown for 40+ years?  And now they want to tax the poor to solve the debt problem (via flat tax or 9-9-9), which is impossible by the way.  I've lost all sympathy for "job creators."  Raise the top tax rate, eliminate the special capital gains tax (just tax it as income), and end corporate citizenship.

 

And since this is a Kasich thread I'll speak the recent controversy.  Kasich made a mistake, I believe, by not extending Strickland's executive order on exotic animals.  However, it sounds like he's going to take corrective action and put something on the books.  I say give the guy a break.  It sounds like he's going to try to solve this problem.  Of course I'd rather have proactive instead of reactive legislators, but I doubt exotic animal legislation was at the front of his mind when he came into office.

What difference would it had made if he extended it or not? the animals were there before he was in office and nothing was done. His wife is to blame as well. Someone had to take care of them while the guy was in prison the past year.

And since this is a Kasich thread I'll speak the recent controversy.  Kasich made a mistake, I believe, by not extending Strickland's executive order on exotic animals.  However, it sounds like he's going to take corrective action and put something on the books.  I say give the guy a break.  It sounds like he's going to try to solve this problem.  Of course I'd rather have proactive instead of reactive legislators, but I doubt exotic animal legislation was at the front of his mind when he came into office.

Agreed. It may have been a mistake, but it was a minor one and I won't hold it against him. There's plenty of more significant things to hold against him.