Is it Dayton, Toledo or Akron? How has the economy of those cities been lately? What might the future hold?

 

I won't include Youngstown because we all know how bad their economy is.

Well iif you are in the right field of work, you can get a job in any of them. I would have to say Toledo. It's gained 600 jobs since last year. Dayton and Akron lost 3k and 1k respectably.

I would say Akron, as they seem to be the most stable of the three.

I would say Toledo, because as recently as 10-15 years ago, the condition of their core city looked almost as bad as Youngstown's. I've been very impressed with all that they've done to restore and enliven the core. I think Youngstown is only now starting to move in that direction. Akron and Dayton seemed to be stuck, not sure which way to go next. They need a plan.

Not that I am an expert, but I do know that Akron will be building those new govt. blimps, and I believe they landed a factory that will produce fuel cells. Toledo's economy still seems to be centered around the automobile (thus it is pretty stagnant).

I would say Toledo, because as recently as 10-15 years ago, the condition of their core city looked almost as bad as Youngstown's. I've been very impressed with all that they've done to restore and enliven the core. I think Youngstown is only now starting to move in that direction. Akron and Dayton seemed to be stuck, not sure which way to go next. They need a plan.

 

But we are talking about economy, not aesthetics/additions/infill.  I presumed Akron would have the best economy because of it having more of a white-collar/blue-collar mix versus Dayton and Toledo, which traditionally have been more blue-collar and are starting to transition into other fields.

Who's the tallest midget in Tinytown?

You cant include Akron in there because Akron is no more than just a suburb of Cleveland. That is like saying Hamilton is not part of the Cincinnati area

^ Grrr.... How dare you speak such words :whip:

It is not a suburb of Cleveland. It is a distinct city onto itself.

Not according to the U.S. Census!

^ I'm sorry, but being included in the same CSA with Cleveland doens't automatically reduce Akron to suburb status in my book. 

I'd say most Clevelanders think that Akron is part of their "Southern Suburbs" like Solon and Strongsville.  To those of us in the Akron-Summit Co. area that of course is ludicrous.  One thing that will freak out Cleveburgers is that people in Summit county have no clue what or who RITA is.  Most people in Summit Co. don't read the PD.  The ABJ reaches well into northern Summit co.  Basically, when I say I'm going "into the city" or "downtown", I always mean Akron.  Otherwise I'd say I'm going up to Cleveland.  As far as analogies, I'd say its akin to saying Dayton is a suburb of Cinci or Toledo is a suburb of Detroit.  Does anyone in Cleveland move to Akron area?  Not that I'm aware of.  The encroachment might be into say Hudson from Solon or something.  Thats about it.  I rarely meet people in the Akron area from Cleveland.  Of course its probably rare for someone in Chagrin to go to Berea to grab a beer at the Cornerstone brewing co. 

My arguement is that if Cleveland wasn't there, Akron would not be what it is and Vice Versa.  The two cities tend to play off of eachothers economy and support eachothers economy.  However, as far as best economies for mid-sized cities, it would have to be Findlay.  I know it wasn't mentioned as an option and it is not as big as the three listed, but it is a very stable well groomed economy. 

i would say dayton because their tho blue collar it's industrial base is so diversified they never suffered a total downturn like the rubber capital and the glass city have. when one industry drops there the others hold steady enough to weather the storms. of course from my biased vantage point growing up in clevo and in a depression era economy in company town lorain, all of ohio's cities economies look great in comparison!

^ I don't know.. Dayton is getting kicked in the tail by Gm and Daphne or what ever that company is called.

With Toledo loosing their downtown businesses and Dayton hurting from manufacturing job losses, I would assume it is Akron.

Akron- "We've got the blimp!"

-Cd Truth

 

Dayton hasn't hit bottom yet...or transitioned to a new economic base.....at best things are plateaing here for awhile (or so implys the Dayton Buisness Journal headline for 2006 predictions)

 

Manufacturing here has two big pillars..auto parts and precision machining and moldmaking....

 

The auto parts sector is dominated by Delphi, which could shed a signifigant # of jobs here.  The machining industry is also declining as it has been targeted by overseas competitors...so a lot of that industry could go offshore...remains to be seen how this local industry will withstand this competition.

 

Manufacturing in Dayton will not totally disappear, but it will be reduced or changed.

 

The thing that will keep Dayton somewhat stable or break-even is defense spending and infotech.

 

 

 

 

^lol! actually there once was a nightlife near ut, it was one long running joint called the rocket inn. at the time a friend of mine's family owned it, when it closed that was it for nightlife anywhere near the campus. you just reminded me of another cheesy club we used to hang out in called renee's. anyway i am glad to hear about toledo getting a better nightlife and downtown at that instead of spread all over the place!

 

ps--cdawg re your reply above that one to me i did not mean to imply toledo is dependent on only one industry, none of these cities are by any means. i was just using the nickname. i meant that dayton is more diversified and therefore weathers economic storms as a whole better than toledo and akron. again thats just my opinion/perception as far as i can see, but i'm not married to it.

I would tend to agree that Akron's economy as a whole is definitely in better shape than other cities.  That doesn't mean that there are tons of high paying jobs available in the area.  There are mainly a bunch of home-grown companies throughout the Akron area that people rely on for jobs.  The bigger companies of course are Goodyear, First Energy, GOJO, Roadway now YRC, and Sterling(Jewelry) seem to all be doing quite fine.  I'd say things are pretty stable and are expected to stay stable for the foreseeable future.  There are several large companies just outside Akron area like Rubbermaid and Smuckers in Wooster/Orrville and the Canton area companies of Timken, Hoover, and Diebold.  Then to the northern suburb of Hudson are Joann's fabrics and Fedex ground formerly a part of Roadway known as Caliber Logistics and huge AllState and Alltel operations.  Regionally, the economy is very healthy. 

 

Major sign that an economy is healthy is construction going on: check out www.Northsidelofts.com, also www.akronartmuseum.org/newbuilding/index2.html.  The Akron Canton airport is one of the fastest growing airports in the country and is expanding rapidly.  The UofA has finished some major renovation of the campus.  Its a radically different place from when I graduated from there a dozen years ago.  There are various other projects going on in Akron like a 7 story building on Exchange and Main, the towpath going through downtown this year, UofA off-campus housing project as part of Spicer Village, and other various large projects in Elizabeth park and Highland Square.  A new brewery is coming downtown called www.hoppinfrog.com from the guy that brought us thirsty dog.  Akron has managed to put a fine downtown highlights website together www.downtownakron.com . 

yeah i liked findlay and it sure is always stable. marathon, whirlpool and cooper tires, man that is a pretty outstanding trio for what is a glorified farm town. the college helps too. as for their politics, i actually met dan quayle there as an intern so that tells ya a little more about the place.

One thing about Dayton though. It's closer to Warren and Butler county than Cincinnati is to then. and An ydevelopment there goes to Cincinnati numbers and not Dayton. There is this HUGE subdivison being built near Springboro.Like 7000 homes. And all them Construction jobs are showing in Cincinnati Metro and not Dayton. Dayton is getting screwed, but I think it would like to be part of the larger market, because then they will have more drawing power to prospective companies. Over 1.6 million workers shouldn't be taken lightly.

And also take into the fact that northern Butler and northern Warren Counties hold Dayton's "southern" suburbs, so in reality, Dayton is being screwed by the Census, as the actual Dayton CSA SHOULD be around 1.25ish.

 

But alas.

 

And downtown Toledo is not "much larger" than downtown Youngstown, though it certainly is taller and has more buildings.

 

 

 

 

Findlay is about 150,000 tops

 

It's small but is quite intact and healthy. It somehow escaped the fate of Ohio's other small metropolitan areas like Lima, Mansfield, etc.

 

It probably has something to do with their free trade zone and heavily Red voting patterns if you believe in things like political payback and such. George Bush hates Toledo and Cleveland. George Bush loves Findlay.

 

Hancock county is listed at 131,000. However, there is a lot construction going on. When Ohio's unemployment numbers were released, Hancock county had 4.2% unemployment. Yes Findlay is a "red" city, but I do not see how they have benefited from having Bush in office.

 

the college helps too.

 

The University of Findlay is really starting to expand. Although there has not been a lot of construction, they have started a PharmD program, and the plan on offering a bachelors in nursing in the future.

One thing about Dayton though. It's closer to Warren and Butler county than Cincinnati is to then. and An ydevelopment there goes to Cincinnati numbers and not Dayton. There is this HUGE subdivison being built near Springboro.Like 7000 homes. And all them Construction jobs are showing in Cincinnati Metro and not Dayton. Dayton is getting screwed, but I think it would like to be part of the larger market, because then they will have more drawing power to prospective companies. Over 1.6 million workers shouldn't be taken lightly.

 

Conversely, Akron is benefiting from Cleveland sprawl in Northern Summit and Portage Counties.

 

Audidave, I have to imagine that Canton is in the worst shape of anyone these days- maybe even including Youngstown.  Think about the news out of Timken, Diebold, and Hoover these days.  None of it is good.  It's a shame, because up to a few years ago, Canton seemed relatively stable to me.

Perception-wise...I would have to say Akron because it just doesn't seem to have the amount of bad news that seems to plague Toledo and Dayton lately.  Sometimes it seems like T-Town is becoming a little Detroit with empty buildings downtown.  As far as Akron being a suburb of Cleveland....talk to most people from Cleveland, Akron is on the other side of the world, not 28 miles away.  Positive attributes include... fast growing Airport, polymer sciences, Kent and UofA, decent public schools, stable neighborhoods, new library and art musuem Downtown, Inventure Place, a strong Mayor, Soap Box Derby, PGA tour @ Firestone Country Club, Tangier's...etc. 

 

Successful re-use of high profile downtown historical buildings also contributes to that perception...

O'Neils Dept Store = law firm HQ

Polsky's Dept Store= UofA classrooms

BF Goodrich World HQ = GO-JO HQ

BFG Factory Buildings = Canal Place incubator space for small business

Quaker Square = Hotel, Offices, Retail

 

There are various other projects going on in Akron like a 7 story building on Market and Main,

I think that is the new Summa Health Systems HQ.

I could only find the 2000 census numbers by county:

                    median    per capita  % living below poverty

Summit -      42,304    22,842          9.9

Lucas -          38,004    20,518        13.9

Montgomery- 40,156    21,473        11.3

Mahoning -    35,248    18,818        12.5

 

And By city:

 

Akron -        31,835      17,596        17.5

Toledo-        32,546      17,388        17.9

Dayton-        27,423      15,547          23.0

Youngstown- 24,201      13,293        24.8

 

 

Dayton has a pretty high poverty rate, but is poverty mostly concentrated on the west side of Dayton or does it include other areas of the city?

The poverty is mostly concentrated west of the Wolf Creek/Great Miami River.  There are, of course, pockets of poverty on the eastside and portions of the northside, but the majority is west Dayton.

Let's see if this picture works...

 

Based on the 2000 Census, percent below poverty by block group in Dayton (darker=greater; each data class covers about 10% except for the highest, which is from 60%-77%).

stats for all counties and cities in Ohio for the US census can be found here:

 

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/39000.html

 

I don't know if this qualifies as a core county, but Stark(Canton/Massillon) is below 10%....39,824; 20,417; 9.2%

 

Cuyahoga - 39,168; 22,272; 13.1%

Franklin - 42,734; 23,059; 11.6%

Hamilton - 40,964; 24,053; 11.8% 

 

wealthiest in Ohio and both in the top 100 in the US....

Delaware - 67,258; 31,600; 3.8%

Geauga - 60,200; 27,944; 4.6%

 

 

So basically west Dayton, downtown, Parkside, and Miami Valley Hospital are the poorest.  Go fig.

 

Also of note, University Row, Catalpa Woods, and St. Anne's seem to show up in the "wealthest" cards.  No surprise there.

Shesh we still going at this?

 

So can we agree that Akron has a better economy out of Toledo, Dayton & Akron?  I don't want to hear why Toledo or Dayton have better economies, because I work in Dayton so I know where it stands and C-Dawg is as biased as anyone on here so I would like to see those who disagree with Akron having the strongest economy out of the three state their reasons else we are just going in circles.

Uh...I don't think ANYBODY in this thread thinks Dayton has the best economy.  I've heard "future potential" due to close proximity to Cincinnati but no one thinks Dayton has the best economy.

I think Dayton has the most potential but unless someone can tell me more about why Akron doesn't have the best economy, my vote would have to go to Akron.  Dayton has had some disappointing jobs losses but nothing on the scale of Toledo losing it's downtown HQ's.

I don't know the numbers, but isn't Toledo getting ready to pass Cincinnati population-wise? :-/ So how would Toledo rank with the Big C's economy-wise?

Thats pretty interesting about those Lucas County poverty numbers...they are worse than Mahoning County!

C-Dawg, please keep Cincinnati out of the Toledo discussions, there are light years apart.  People that bring up the Toledo passing Cincinnati population thing tend to not bring up Toledo's city is losing population too.  The reason why Cincy's was so high of late can be due to the demolition of numerous housing projects and you can't replace that density.  Their is a large and I mean really large urban development going up right in the heart of the city and that is going to help replenish the population that we lost coupled with many infill projects across the city.

But metro Toledo's growth is slow, and while the MSA is at least growing in population (which isn't the case with Youngstown or Dayton MSA), economic growth might be the worst in Ohio. The auto industry is just killing T-Town. Toledo is too diversified to end up like Flint, but I have my fears that the metro will get worse before it gets any better.

 

And for Toledo's downtown HQ losses, Dayton is probably in the same boat. Both cities have suffered from company buy-outs and relocations. Actually, almost every city in Ohio has.

 

Correction.  Downtown Dayton has lost downtown headquarters in the past but none lately.  NCR isn't downtown but in the city's "Midtown" area (meaning, Carrillon Park).  Downtown Dayton is currently in the "let's get anything we can get" stage right now.  Toledo will probably be there once all the acquisitions and such happen.

 

Lastly, Dayton's metropolitan area is not losing people; but simply expanding (meaning northern Warren and Butler counties).  Thus, if Dayton's suburbs were actually counted with Dayton than Cincinnati's MSA, Dayton would've grown about 2%.

^ You are right about that for sure.

Late to the topic, but my vote goes to Akron.  It seems to have much more going for it presently.