my parents and older relatives used to talk about that pre-csu neighborhood, almost as poorly documented as little hollywood and now all but forgotten. hopefully collegetown and other redevelopment will makeup for the csu/innerbelt urban atrocity that tore the residential heart out of the city. it looks to me like its on its way to doing that already, at least to some extent.

my parents and older relatives used to talk about that pre-csu neighborhood, almost as poorly documented as little hollywood and now all but forgotten. hopefully collegetown and other redevelopment will makeup for the csu/innerbelt urban atrocity that tore the residential heart out of the city. it looks to me like its on its way to doing that already, at least to some extent.

 

I have always wondered what the deal was with that area when it existed, such as its demographics and how poor it was prior to it being leveled. I bet if those structures would have been left in tact it would be much like Tremont or Ohio City today. To me this was Cleveland's biggest loss in terms of neighborhoods because of its proximity to downtown.

 

I also think establishing a residential neighborhood in this part of the city would do a lot for Cleveland. One problem I have with Cleveland is there are no visible residential neighborhoods adjacent to downtown. Ohio City is cut off by the river to the west, there is a mess of highways to the south, and it's industrial to the east of downtown for a ways. Many of Cleveland's peer cities at least have one solid, or at least interesting, residential neighborhood adjacent to downtown; such as the North/East side in Milwaukee, Over the Rhine in Cincinnati, and Allentown in Buffalo.

 

Philadelphia didn't have one either (yet they had close in neighborhoods to city center and rail) and Chicago just started gaining downtown momentum.  New Orleans, Boston and Manhattan, were the only "large" cities with sizeable residential populations in the CBD/Downtown.

 

Well I think that is debatable depending how a person defines downtown. In Philly you can walk from Rittenhouse Square to the central business district in a manner of blocks, so I'm sure that someone could reasonably say that there has been residential in "downtown" Philly for some time based on that. I think San Francisco should be added to your list as well.

 

In Chicago's case you are correct if you define downtown as just the Loop area. However, there has been residential in Chicago along N. Michigan Avenue and into the Gold Coast for some time, which are areas that most people would refer to as downtown Chicago.

 

 

Well I think that is debatable depending how a person defines downtown. In Philly you can walk from Rittenhouse Square to the central business district in a manner of blocks, so I'm sure that someone could reasonably say that there has been residential in "downtown" Philly for some time based on that. I think San Francisco should be added to your list as well.

 

In Chicago's case you are correct if you define downtown as just the Loop area. However, there has been residential in Chicago along N. Michigan Avenue and into the Gold Coast for some time, which are areas that most people would refer to as downtown Chicago.

 

 

I'll give you that its debateable, you one needs to remember Philadelphia suffered a greater white flight than Cleveland in its close in neighborhoods.  Places like Rittenhouse, Washington Squares and the Logan Circle area decayed badly.  Which is why people often refered to  Philadelphia (and S. Jersey) as, "the armpit of America" and "killadelphia".  You didn't cross the Vine, there was no China Town, Redding terminal and the surrounding area was dangerous.  Broad Street was a mess, hence the renaming to "Avenue of the Arts.

 

If you review the movie Blowout you can see how empty and terrible Philadelphia was.  Then Mayor Gooden/Good (sp) realized that Center City needed to compete with the 'burbs and the King of Prussia area.  When Rendell came into office he pushed to clean up center city and bring residents into the four quadrants.  Then in the late 90s hotels and retail returned.  I can remember when Anthroplogy was the only store on Rittenhouse Sq.

 

In Chicago, the Marina City apartments kicked off the downtown housing market in the mid 60s. 

 

Getting back to the Cleveland Downtown Residences Discussion, check out the picture on the right of this Cleveland Area History blog post for more evidence of historical downtown residential; a great late 19th century apartment building next to some row houses on Euclid near Playhouse Square: http://www.clevelandareahistory.com/2011/04/identifying-your-photographs-wilshire.html

Getting back to the Cleveland Downtown Residences Discussion, check out the picture on the right of this Cleveland Area History blog post for more evidence of historical downtown residential; a great late 19th century apartment building next to some row houses on Euclid near Playhouse Square: http://www.clevelandareahistory.com/2011/04/identifying-your-photographs-wilshire.html

 

That Garlock building is amazing. Imagine if that was still standing today in that location on Euclid. I can only imagine the demand to live in such a building! There was no Hanna Building on that map in 1896 either. I wonder if the Hanna Building and the Garlock Building ever co-existed. Today there is that parking lot at the corner of E 17th and Euclid, but it's hard to tell if this building would have stood where that lot is today or if it would have been on the "new" E 17th st, nonetheless this thread is making me cringe seeing all of these amazing residential properties of yesteryear.

Just out of curiosity, what historic year does the current downtown Cleveland population now resemble? For example are we at a similar downtown population as say 1930 or 1950 or some later year?

 

Historically the core downtown has never had much residential right? Are there many buildings downtown pre WWII that were built exclusively as apartments?

 

On the flip side, any numbers or guesses on how many residents lived in the core of downtown (bounded by Cuyahoga River, North of present 90 and West of E 17th) in 1920, 1930, 1940, etc? I know there was residential farther down Prospect and in the East 20s, but I don't consider that core downtown.

 

I'm just trying to gauge how today's downtown population compares against a historical context for downtown Cleveland.

I don't believe that Cleveland had much of a residential population at all downtown once it reached big city status. I'm sure at one time there was residential right off of Public Square when Cleveland was more of a town, but that made way for the central business district as the city grew.

 

I do know that the area between E. 12th Street and E. 30th Street was once a densely population area made up of apartment blocks and houses. Although, I'm not sure if that area was considered part of downtown at the time or some other neighborhood. I believe very few streets around there survived as residential by 1960. Here are some photos from that area of some of the last survivors that were destroyed to make room for Cleveland State and parking lots (from the CSU archives).

 

I don't really know the history of that area other than Millionaires Row along Euclid. I just know that must have been a pretty active residential district at one time that was leveled to make room for parking lots and one story commercial/industrial structures  :x

 

 

Wow. Thanks. I had no idea that the area around CSU had apartment buildings like that. I suppose there is one last remaining vestige of this area on E 17th at Walnut. This is a very non-descript building that doesn't look very nice at all. I wonder how, it, of all buildings based on the images before happened to remain?

 

It's such a shame that some of these 4-6 story apartment buildings with big bay windows couldn't have survived on the fringes of downtown. It seems quite a handful of these treasured style of apartments/shells remain in many of the decaying neighborhoods with no imminent hope of conversion while those in neighborhoods seeing a comeback unfortunately turned into parking lots decades ago. :(

I have always loved this building at the corner of St. Clair and East 20th. It has become boxed in with junk, but makes me wonder what the area looked like 80 years ago:

 

http://g.co/maps/k38yp

It's such a shame that some of these 4-6 story apartment buildings with big bay windows couldn't have survived on the fringes of downtown. It seems quite a handful of these treasured style of apartments/shells remain in many of the decaying neighborhoods with no imminent hope of conversion while those in neighborhoods seeing a comeback unfortunately turned into parking lots decades ago. :(

 

Too bad we lost the technology to make buildings like that.  Relics of a bygone civilization, before the Martians came.       

I have always loved this building at the corner of St. Clair and East 20th. It has become boxed in with junk, but makes me wonder what the area looked like 80 years ago:

 

http://g.co/maps/k38yp

It was formerly a gay club.  It's huge on the inside.

Here is one that still exists

 

http://g.co/maps/deykg

Just out of curiosity, what historic year does the current downtown Cleveland population now resemble? For example are we at a similar downtown population as say 1930 or 1950 or some later year?

 

Historically the core downtown has never had much residential right? Are there many buildings downtown pre WWII that were built exclusively as apartments?

 

On the flip side, any numbers or guesses on how many residents lived in the core of downtown (bounded by Cuyahoga River, North of present 90 and West of E 17th) in 1920, 1930, 1940, etc? I know there was residential farther down Prospect and in the East 20s, but I don't consider that core downtown.

 

I'm just trying to gauge how today's downtown population compares against a historical context for downtown Cleveland.

I don't believe that Cleveland had much of a residential population at all downtown once it reached big city status. I'm sure at one time there was residential right off of Public Square when Cleveland was more of a town, but that made way for the central business district as the city grew.

 

I do know that the area between E. 12th Street and E. 30th Street was once a densely population area made up of apartment blocks and houses. Although, I'm not sure if that area was considered part of downtown at the time or some other neighborhood. I believe very few streets around there survived as residential by 1960. Here are some photos from that area of some of the last survivors that were destroyed to make room for Cleveland State and parking lots (from the CSU archives).

 

 

 

 

I don't really know the history of that area other than Millionaires Row along Euclid. I just know that must have been a pretty active residential district at one time that was leveled to make room for parking lots and one story commercial/industrial structures  :x

 

 

To my unsophisticated architectural eye, those look a little bit like the apartment buildings that exist in high concentrations in Cleveland Heights and near Shaker Square.

Along Prospect Avenue there are a scarce amount of really cool rowhouses.  Were there even more rowhouses around town like that, and if so, are these ones on Prospect the only ones that survived?

Here is one that still exists

 

http://g.co/maps/deykg

 

I think that one, and the one on Prospect next to Walker & Weeks (http://tinyurl.com/6bzxab7) are the only pre-war apartment buildings left inside the innerbelt.  Any others?

My understanding is that a lot of the residential structures in and around Downtown were for the lower class.  These were not apartments which were built as upper class homes (with separate servant entrances, etc) like you see in Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights.  And I think the area around the river which was lost for the TT complex was the ghetto.

Yes, they were low-income housing back then -- the kind of stuff that's been renovated here and in other cities for market-rate housing. Many of the apartment buildings back then were called hotels but in reality people lived in them for extended periods.

This applies to all Cleveland housing, not just downtown, as this discussion is redirected from the Ohio City developments thread....

 

I think they want houses, too.  I think we all just view this standing structure as a great spot for high rise apartments or condos.

 

A significant number of them do NOT want houses, which is why it takes us decades here to revitalize a neighborhood.  We don't have enough marketable rental units to let people try urban living before they buy.  That's the majority of the market, but we only get the really committed ones.  Nothing against them, obviously.  But that leaves a lot of growth on the table.  We also miss out on a lot of the serial movers, people building careers who are willing to relocate as often as necessary.  Their options are overwhelmingly outside the city here. 

 

And then there are the people who simply prefer a dense setting and don't want a house period.  I'm in that group, and my options are also largely outside the city.  I live in Lakewood because Cleveland has lost too many apartments and built too many houses.  That's the case for a lot of the area's young professionals, they end up in the suburbs because they prefer urban apartments.  CDC's looking to attract them need to focus on getting more apartments to market.  This should be a front-burner priority but it doesn't seem to get much attention.

 

Correct. Much of Cleveland's existing housing stock is an obstacle to new development. If neighborhoods are stable and houses are kept in good repair, great. But many are not, and there's where the opportunity for apartments comes in. OC is in a period of massive redevelopment, and although it's going to be a vibrant commercial and restaurant area, it would be good to anchor all that with more people. With the economic downturn, many young people prefer to rent, myself included. And actually, I've become rather accustomed to apartment living and am not sure I want a house anytime soon. Plus, it increases density, which increases development opportunities. Ohio City has plenty of houses, but not many that I'd consider buying. As I've posted before, my greatest wish for this neighborhood would be apartments near, but not on West 25th, that are somewhat upscale - or for the Flats West development to be completed and not be such an island. Townhouses are also good. And this isn't going to limit anyone who prefers a house - there are plenty.

 

Sounds like some of our city neighborhoods are losing out on potential residents by not offering the housing stock desired by young people. I think we're seeing a disconnect between the city, the CDCs, developers and financiers. Each seems to be saying that they know what the other parties WON'T do, but some of the experiences posted on this board suggest they don't know.

 

I think there needs to be a city housing marketing study sponsored by the CNDC and/or the city. We're going through a tectonic shift in the housing markets, what with the recent foreclosure crisis, the economic recession, the tightness of financial markets and demographic changes in which GenY (largest demographic group in US history) increasingly want city living while Baby Boomers (second largest demographic group in US history) started turning 65 in 2011 and are looking to downsize.

 

This is an amazing opportunity for Cleveland, and I'd hate to see them miss this. But they need data to show to funders to show why they should invest in a no-growth city.

This applies to all Cleveland housing, not just downtown, as this discussion is redirected from the Ohio City developments thread....

 

I think they want houses, too.  I think we all just view this standing structure as a great spot for high rise apartments or condos.

 

A significant number of them do NOT want houses, which is why it takes us decades here to revitalize a neighborhood.  We don't have enough marketable rental units to let people try urban living before they buy.  That's the majority of the market, but we only get the really committed ones.  Nothing against them, obviously.  But that leaves a lot of growth on the table.  We also miss out on a lot of the serial movers, people building careers who are willing to relocate as often as necessary.  Their options are overwhelmingly outside the city here. 

 

And then there are the people who simply prefer a dense setting and don't want a house period.  I'm in that group, and my options are also largely outside the city.  I live in Lakewood because Cleveland has lost too many apartments and built too many houses.  That's the case for a lot of the area's young professionals, they end up in the suburbs because they prefer urban apartments.  CDC's looking to attract them need to focus on getting more apartments to market.  This should be a front-burner priority but it doesn't seem to get much attention.

 

Correct. Much of Cleveland's existing housing stock is an obstacle to new development. If neighborhoods are stable and houses are kept in good repair, great. But many are not, and there's where the opportunity for apartments comes in. OC is in a period of massive redevelopment, and although it's going to be a vibrant commercial and restaurant area, it would be good to anchor all that with more people. With the economic downturn, many young people prefer to rent, myself included. And actually, I've become rather accustomed to apartment living and am not sure I want a house anytime soon. Plus, it increases density, which increases development opportunities. Ohio City has plenty of houses, but not many that I'd consider buying. As I've posted before, my greatest wish for this neighborhood would be apartments near, but not on West 25th, that are somewhat upscale - or for the Flats West development to be completed and not be such an island. Townhouses are also good. And this isn't going to limit anyone who prefers a house - there are plenty.

 

Sounds like some of our city neighborhoods are losing out on potential residents by not offering the housing stock desired by young people. I think we're seeing a disconnect between the city, the CDCs, developers and financiers. Each seems to be saying that they know what the other parties WON'T do, but some of the experiences posted on this board suggest they don't know.

 

I think there needs to be a city housing marketing study sponsored by the CNDC and/or the city. We're going through a tectonic shift in the housing markets, what with the recent foreclosure crisis, the economic recession, the tightness of financial markets and demographic changes in which GenY (largest demographic group in US history) increasingly want city living while Baby Boomers (second largest demographic group in US history) started turning 65 in 2011 and are looking to downsize.

 

This is an amazing opportunity for Cleveland, and I'd hate to see them miss this. But they need data to show to funders to show why they should invest in a no-growth city.

 

From my personal perspective, I like the idea of downtown living, but without living in the downtown per se... if that makes sense. I want to be able to live on a dense/moderately dense tree lined residential street with historic buildings anchored between strips of commercial, but more importantly I want to be able to walk to the downtown CBD in 10-12 minutes, essentially living downtown without actually being in the downtown. This is a living concept that Cleveland unfortunately lacks now. I feel as if the Avenue District was trying to accomplish this sort of feel, being on the fringe of the core CBD, but yet lacked that historical residential component to bridge the two. A good example of this type of living is the East Avenue/Park Avenue area of Rochester, NY. This is essentially lifting Clifton Boulevard and Lake Avenue in Cleveland mixed with the commercial strip of Professor Ave in Tremont and placing it at E 22nd and Superior. This was definitely a limiting factor in my choice of where to live in Cleveland. If you choose downtown, you can't walk out of your home to a residential neighborhood like in Denver (capitol hill/cheeseman park, Rochester (park ave), or Boston (beacon hill) for example. On the other end if you live in Ohio City in a dense residential neighborhood, the walking threshold to downtown is just high enough that it's not something one would regularly consider doing, especially considering the bridges really make the walk feel isolated.

 

So, Cleveland lacks that "best of both worlds" aspect of urban living. Housing stocks are generally the same in each neighborhood, but with neighborhoods being just far enough apart that they don't bleed over. When the neighborhoods are adjacent, each neighborhood can build on each other's assets. Live in a rich historical apartment, yet walk to the modern shining buildings of downtown just blocks away. Or live in a modern condo with contemporary furnishings but walk 5 blocks to a historic neighborhood and sip coffee at a sidewalk cafe.

 

So in my opinion the development that Cleveland has seen over the past decade has been a stab at trying to overcome this. The historic residential neighborhoods adjacent to downtown are long gone, but you can at least try to build new ones (Avenue District). The charming late 19th century Detroit Shoreway has to diversify with Battery Park ... and so forth.

 

I think the housing stocks that people want are there, but they just aren't mixed with/close enough to the other amenities that people want.

 

that's JMHO.

 

 

Battery Park originally included a large apartment building but I'm not sure if that's still in the plan. 

 

To get what you're looking for, WestBLVD, we'd have to develop all that area north of Superior between downtown and E 30th.  Extend the "Avenue District" eastward.  Based on the geography that's the only place it could occur.  Downtown is, shall we say, fortified from attack in all directions except east.  And that land is just sitting there, vaguely industrial and generally uninviting.  But if you lived there, you could easily walk to anywhere in downtown or Asiatown.  It has Success Tech Academy plus CSU just a few blocks away.  A full size Dave's is nearby on 36th. 

The Park To Shop, 1580 East 30th Street, is roughly as large as the Dave's Supermarket around the corner in Asiatown. And the Park To Shop features more Asian (especially Chinese) foods than Dave's but has many American foods, too.

Should all the residential discussion on Ohio City be moved here?

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,25309.msg537902.html#msg537902

Since around 1930s and 40s, Cleveland planners clearly determined the core East Side should be turned over to industry and move quality living up-the-hill to the Heights. Light industry replaced residences (or interspersed with residences which downgraded living quality).  Rapid transit planning focused on the Van Sweringen Nickel Plate ROW with only a subway loop downtown, in the 1940s, and not a direct line down the Euclid corridor which would have stabilized the area and even encouraged further growth.  All of this led, of course, to the final East Side flashpoint/nadir signalling the total death of middle/upper middle class living: the 1966 Hough riots... All this led to the deterioration of the Near East Side, residential-wise... So downtown became a non-residential, strictly-employment island separated from from residential neighborhoods -- by the Flats/Cuyahoga River (industrial) valley, to the West, and the light/heavy industrial region to the East...  This is one of the great planning gaffes made by Cleveland (along with giving over our wonderful lakefront to industry downtown and along the East shore. 

 

Given this background, it's none short of heroic that this City is turning it's downtown into a significant residential haven (even if a couple thousand residents are Justice Center prisoners)... The continued growth of Cleveland State college campus residential area, pulling downtown further East, is the latest success story for reviving residential downtown.

 

 

From: http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16543565/1717-East-9th-St-Cleveland-OH/

 

Auction 3/4: 346,500 sqft High-Rise Office

1717 East 9th St, Cleveland, OH 44114

 

 

Price:N/A

Building Size:346,500 SF

Property Type:Office

Property Sub-type:Office Building

Property Use Type:Vacant/Owner-User

Auction:Yes

No. Stories:21

Building Class:A

Year Built:1958

 

Description

 

REDC and Jones Lang LaSalle are proud to auction this vacant 21-story office tower that contains approximately 346,500 square feet of office, retail and storage space, and an attached 7-story, 545-stall parking garage. Designed by Emery Roth & Sons and completed in 1959, 1717 East 9th Street became the headquarters for the East Ohio Gas Company and was known as the East Ohio Building until 2004.

 

It is an ideal candidate for large users to purchase or lease. The building's efficient floor plates are also well suited to small and mid-sized tenants, making multi-tenancy an attractive option. The building is also a strong candidate for conversion to hotel and/or residential uses.

 

The Property' s large parking garage offers a parking ratio of 1.6 spaces per 1,000 square feet, one of the highest garage parking ratios of any office building in downtown Cleveland. The deck serves parking needs for several of the surrounding buildings and reflects the strong overall location.

 

The property is situated in the heart of Cleveland' s financial district. Located at the Southeast corner of Superior Avenue and East 9th Street, the Property offers convenient access to most of the significant destinations in the central business district. Just one block east of the Property, along East 12th Street is The Avenue District, a recently developed residential community which includes for lease and sale units, along with unique retail boutiques and coffee shops. The Property is within three blocks of the East 4th neighborhood, a vibrant mixed-use entertainment district with over 220 apartments.

 

 

Well, so much for a residential conversion. Looks like they're going to renovate this building for offices.....

 

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/MainSite/Listing/Profile/Profile.aspx?LID=14076412&SRID=2181207857&StepID=101&LinkCode=20280

 

1717 East Ninth Street Building

1717 E 9th St, Cleveland, OH 44114-2806

 

Total Space Available:266,666 SF

Rental Rate:$23 /SF/Year

Min. Divisible:884 SF

Max. Contiguous:16,500 SF

Property Type:Office

Property Sub-type:Office Building

Building Size:346,500 SF

Building Class:B

Year Built:1959

No. Parking Spaces:0

Zoning Description:Office

 

 

Description

24 hrs 7 day access & security. Two(2) Conference Centers, Complete Renovation planned, including new exterior, Ample parking is available in the atached 540 space covered garage. 6,918 sq ft basement storage.; Loss Factor: 6

 

The building is located in the heart of the Central Business District at E. 9th st & Superior Ave

That would make a fabulous location for a hotel.  I wish they would tear down those back-to-back parking garages.  Oh well.....hopefully they can renovate, market in a manner which ensure high occupancy.  Good luck.

I'm going to also post this in the Cleveland general construction projects thread.

That makes no sense.  Isn't there already a glut of office space in downtown Cleveland?  Class B office space can be had for $12-14/sf.  $23/sf?  Good luck!  I hope they have a tenant lined up.

That makes no sense.  Isn't there already a glut of office space in downtown Cleveland?  Class B office space can be had for $12-14/sf.  $23/sf?  Good luck!  I hope they have a tenant lined up.

 

How does investing in a property you own, to make it more marketable, make no sense?  :wtf:

It might make no sense if the property would remain unmarketable.  There's a practically-empty tower right across the street.  Eaton and Huntington are about to clear out even more of that general area.  Our "financial district" needs to diversify.  Any possible full-building conversion to residential should get a good look, and if it's at all feasible, should get a high priority in local development subsidies.  That plan should already be in place, and the city should be actively promoting it.  These are high rises with huge windows and lake views.  And they're already built.     

It might make no sense if the property would remain unmarketable.  There's a practically-empty tower right across the street. 

 

If you're referring to the KeyBank Center at 800 Superior, Crain's reports that building's vacancy will be about 60 percent after Calfee leaves for its own building on East 6th....

http://www.crainsclevelandbusiness.com/article/20110808/FREE/308089938

 

That's enough occupancy to keep cash flows flowing while different parts of the building are rehabbed on a rotating basis. KeyBank Center's new, mysterious owner (as might the owner of the former East Ohio Gas 1717 East Ninth building) may view this as opportunity to refurbish the building, bring it up to Class A-like standards and market it with rates that are competitive with suburban office markets (and Class A downtown buildings). Yes, the current downtown office vacancy rate is high, but it includes the Breuer Tower which is not on the market. And the 1717 East Ninth Tower wasn't on the market until very recently. Those two buildings alone have vastly distorted downtown's overall vacancy rates.

Hotel discussions were moved here:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26395.0.html

It might make no sense if the property would remain unmarketable.  There's a practically-empty tower right across the street. 

 

If you're referring to the KeyBank Center at 800 Superior, Crain's reports that building's vacancy will be about 60 percent after Calfee leaves for its own building on East 6th....

http://www.crainsclevelandbusiness.com/article/20110808/FREE/308089938

 

That's enough occupancy to keep cash flows flowing while different parts of the building are rehabbed on a rotating basis. KeyBank Center's new, mysterious owner (as might the owner of the former East Ohio Gas 1717 East Ninth building) may view this as opportunity to refurbish the building, bring it up to Class A-like standards and market it with rates that are competitive with suburban office markets (and Class A downtown buildings). Yes, the current downtown office vacancy rate is high, but it includes the Breuer Tower which is not on the market. And the 1717 East Ninth Tower wasn't on the market until very recently. Those two buildings alone have vastly distorted downtown's overall vacancy rates.

The new owner and at least some of their intentions have been known for quite some time now...

 

NYC group wins bid for KeyBank Center

And it may bring 200 more jobs to office site

 

By STAN BULLARD

 

The embattled, 23-story KeyBank Center in downtown Cleveland not only is about to get a new owner, but it also stands to gain a new tenant that could bring more than 200 jobs from the suburbs.

 

AmTrust Realty of New York City was the winning bidder in a July 27 Internet auction for the lender-owned tower at 800 Superior Ave. If the purchase closes — and if an incentive deal is struck with the city of Cleveland — it will clear the way for more than 200 workers to come to the building from a unit in Seven Hills of sister company AmTrust Financial Services Inc., according to three sources familiar with the situation.

 

Two of the sources said relocating AmTrust Financial jobs to Cleveland from outside the region also could be in the mix. None of the sources agreed to be identified because they are not authorized to discuss the unfolding situation publicly...

 

In situations similar to KeyBank Center, which soon will have a 60% vacancy rate, AmTrust Realty in the New York and Chicago deals was undaunted by buying buildings that were half empty. It bought 59 Maiden Lane at an auction.

 

Today, 59 Maiden Lane is the address of AmTrust Financial's headquarters in New York, and it has offices at 33 W. Monroe in Chicago.

 

Relocating AmTrust Financial's operations in Seven Hills from a 60,000-square-foot building at 5800 Lombardo Center that is owned by an affiliate led by Michael Karfunkel — whose family is the equity behind AmTrust Realty — would give AmTrust Realty a base to rebuild the tenancy at KeyBank Center. Especially suiting such a move is that KeyBank Center includes a huge parking garage."

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20110815/FREE/308159955///&template=mobile

 

NYC group wins bid for KeyBank Center

And it may bring 200 more jobs to office site

 

By STAN BULLARD

 

The embattled, 23-story KeyBank Center in downtown Cleveland not only is about to get a new owner, but it also stands to gain a new tenant that could bring more than 200 jobs from the suburbs.

 

AmTrust Realty of New York City was the winning bidder in a July 27 Internet auction for the lender-owned tower at 800 Superior Ave. If the purchase closes — and if an incentive deal is struck with the city of Cleveland — it will clear the way for more than 200 workers to come to the building from a unit in Seven Hills of sister company AmTrust Financial Services Inc., according to three sources familiar with the situation.

 

 

Wow -- I forgot all about that! Thanks.

Great article!

 

I'm going to post this here -- mods please move if there is a better place:

 

With apartments full, developers look for new rental opportunities in downtown Cleveland

Published: Saturday, November 26, 2011, 6:00 PM

By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer

 

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- With apartments nearly full and waiting lists piling up, a sense of rental euphoria has fallen over downtown Cleveland.

 

The downtown apartment market has tightened up dramatically, thanks to growing zest for urban living and a housing crash that helped make apartments the hottest commodity in the real estate business.

 

The occupancy spike - to 98 percent or higher at some buildings - has developers looking for their next project and wondering whether Cleveland can create enough supply to meet renter demand.

 

"Downtown needs more apartments, and it's just that simple," said Ralph McGreevy, executive vice president of the Northeast Ohio Apartment Association.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/11/with_apartments_full_developer.html

Definitely a great article

Something that jumped out to me was Wolstein saying he wants to break ground for apartments at the Flats East Bank in the spring.  He sounded pretty positive about this (famous last words).  While I know it has been stated that they are planning and want to go forward with Phase 2, this is the most concrete statement I have seen from a principal to date.

Great news!  And yes, the beginning of FEB Phase 2 is exciting!  Those are going to be booked the first week they open- with views of both the river AND the lake. 

OK, but WHY aren't the laws of economics applying to downtown? LOL

 

Apartment rents aren't rising fast in downtown Cleveland, despite high occupancy and waiting lists

Published: Saturday, November 26, 2011, 6:00 PM

By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- It seems like basic economics: With the supply of apartments tight and demand growing, landlords have the power to raise rents.

 

Yet high occupancy levels in downtown Cleveland aren't spurring a dramatic increase in rates.

 

That's good news for tenants already living in downtown buildings. But it's a challenge for developers trying to meet growing demand by converting office buildings to apartments or venturing into new construction.

 

More at: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/11/apartments_occupancy_is_up_but.html

A very revealing article. Regarding rents, there is one kind of building that downtown can offer which simply would not be available elsewhere, so it has little competition and could justify higher rents -- the high-rise.

 

Interesting quote from Doug Price of K&D: "We're ready to move forward on a couple projects," he said, declining to elaborate. "I think we might have found one. There's another one that looks good."

 

I think the Ameritrust/Breuer Tower has got to still be on K&D's radar screen. And I suspect it's going to be part of the county's office space needs assessment by Allegro Realty, which was due to be finished this fall. I'm hoping the county sells it at a discount to aid in a financial package to refurbish the building as apartments.

 

The other places where high-rise luxury apartment buildings could/should happen is atop 515 Euclid, and above the RTA West Side Transit Center in the Warehouse District. I hope the discounted provision of foundations and substantial parking facilities (by a sale that was $12 million below 515 Euclid's construction cost, and the public-sector subsidized transit center), coupled with luxury-rate rents could make these financially realistic.

 

At least that's what I hope. Glad to read at least product is coming on the market soon with more possible.

 

EDIT: the article repeatedly mentioned conversions as the least expensive, quickest way to get rental product on the market. So, in addition to the Ameritrust-Breuer Tower (which is 0% occupied and has a public sector owner possibly looking to deal), I looked at office building with the lowest occupancy rates at:

 

http://media.cleveland.com/pdgraphics_impact/photo/9046029-large.jpg

 

They are:

 

+ Eaton Center, Superior at East 12th, which will be at about 30% occupied when Eaton goes out to pasture;

+ Chester Commons (former New England Life Building), Chester at East 12th, is only nine stories tall, 35% occupied and next to the wonderfully redone Perk Park;

+ Cathedral Square Plaza, East 9th at Rockwell, is only eight stories tall, 37% occupied and has a CVS on the ground floor;

+ 65-75 Erieview Plaza, East 12th and Hamilton, is only seven stories tall, 38% occupied and is connected to the Galleria.

 

Those are my candidates for conversion, but the Breuer is the #1 candidate in my book. If an apartment developer downtown also has an office building in its portfolio, they might be able to relocate some tenants at an affordable cost (depending on where they are in their leases). The trick is to watch for property transactions. That might signal something is happening or going to happen.

Everyone's starting to get on the same page... and it's my page!

That's strange -- I could have sworn I started this thread. That would make this MY page. ;-)

 

Don't worry... I won't charge you rent. Yet.

BTW, this AP story was posted at cleveland.com about 10 days ago.....

 

As fewer buy homes, apartment construction surges

Nov. 17, 2011, 8:12 p.m. EST

AP

WASHINGTON (AP) — Builders have found a way to make money in a decrepit home market: Apartments.

 

The number of permits to build apartments jumped to a three-year high last month. In 12 months, they've surged 63 percent.

 

Blame the housing bust, which left many people without the means, the credit or the stomach to buy. More people need apartments. The demand has driven up monthly rents. And apartment-home builders are rushing to cash in.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/index.ssf/story/as-fewer-buy-homes-apartment-construction-surges/8ba47a0a3c584c5b81a70a7ca96913ce

The story was picked up nationally by Business First, but is the last paragraph correct?

 

Apartment rental market thriving in Cleveland

Business First

Date: Monday, November 28, 2011, 7:29am EST

Enlarge Image

 

The Cleveland rental market is booming.

 

The apartment rental market in the Cleveland area is enjoying some of its best years this decade as occupancy rates outpace the national average, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports.

 

About 95.2 percent of apartments are occupied in the region, up from 93 percent in the first quarter of 2010, the newspaper reports. Nationally, about 94.4 percent of apartments were occupied in the third quarter.

 

In nearly two years, downtown Cleveland has seen its vacancy rate cut in half, though it still trails apartment occupancy in the suburbs, the Plain Dealer reports. About 93.2 percent of downtown apartments are occupied.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/morning_call/2011/11/apartment-rental-market-thriving-in.html

Two interesting multi-family market reports:

 

http://www.redcapitalgroup.com/Research/Reports_ES/RCH-OH-002-ES_Cleveland_1Q11.pdf#search="Cleveland"

 

http://www.redcapitalgroup.com/Research/Reports_ES/RCH-OH-002-ES_Cleveland_2Q11.pdf#search="Cleveland"

 

The first one, although somewhat dated at this point, has these interesting things to say:

 

+ Still, job growth in 1Q11 easily was strongest in more than a decade, surpassing even the Census aided 5,400 job gain posted in 2Q10.

 

+ The RCR econometric payroll model generates an optimistic forecast, foreseeing 10,400 jobs in 2011 and 18,700 positions in 2012. The outlook for 2013 is closely comparable.

 

+ Apartment demand was commensurate. Tenants net leased 409 units in the seasonally weak January-toMarch period, representing the largest number of units absorbed in a comparable period since Reis began publishing quarterly data in 1999.

 

+ The highest rent neighborhoods in the area are Beachwood and Downtown Cleveland.

 

+ Improving fundamentals notwithstanding, investors were in no rush to increase Cleveland exposure.

Here's a dump of a building in a good location, at 3614 Euclid Avenue, that could be renovated to bring a lot of rental units (there's about 234 hotel rooms now) to the market pretty quickly....

 

http://www.emporis.com/building/besthotelsuites-cleveland-oh-usa

 

very positive story from newsnet5:

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/downtown-cleveland-apartments-are-being-occupied-at-a-record-pace

Good news!

 

I wonder if all major cities are in this boat. Cincinnati has a near 100% rental rate for Over-the-Rhine and downtown - with a very long waiting list, and The Banks Phase 1a has seen 98% of the 300 units ($800-$2000+) rent out in a handful of months.

BTW, that Best Hotel & Suites might make a transitional housing center, for those coming to Cleveland for the first time for new jobs but face the difficulty of trying to find long-term housing from another city. Given its location on the HealthLine between downtown and University Circle, it could be a good spot for such a facility.

 

 

Let's indulge in some speculation on what buildings could be converted to apartments in the downtown area. 

 

Stanley block, East Ohio Gas.  What about the Standard Building or 55 Public Square?

 

 

 

Let's indulge in some speculation on what buildings could be converted to apartments in the downtown area. 

 

Stanley block, East Ohio Gas.  What about the Standard Building or 55 Public Square?

 

 

I'm surprised no one has taken you up on your speculation offer! Folks on this site love to speculate, to bitch about the lack of apartments in the center city and to have opinions on who is to blame for it.

 

OK, here is my take.... I think you have to look at smaller (requires less financing), older (offers historic tax credits!) Class B/C office buildings that have one principal owner, have high vacancies but few liens/other financial clouds hanging over them, and is preferably on the market. However, I don't know all the lien/financial predicaments facing most buildings. But on these criteria, I'd consider these buildings highly.....

 

1. 1350 W 3rd St (Stark's 17,000 sf office building in the Warehouse District, which he renovated in 2007 but is now for sale: http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16665839/1350-W-3rd-St-Cleveland-OH/)

 

2. 2025 Ontario Street (73,814 sf 1897-built office building that's only 7% occupied, across street from casino. See: http://looplink.natl.grubb-ellis.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?stid=grubb&LID=17350909&LL=true&UOMListing=&UOMMoneyCurrency=&RentPer=PY&SRID=2207132342)

 

3. Stanley Block (although I read there's some issues with multiple owners?)

 

4. 1266 W. 6th St. (a 13,500 sf building built in 1872, see: http://crsc.reapplications.com/user/website/PropertyProfile.asp?TransID=19463&ParentID=20914)

 

5. Chester Commons Building, 1120 Chester Avenue (it's a 40,000 sf building built in 1923, next to the renovated Perk Park. See: http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/17195949/1120-Chester-Ave-Cleveland-OH/)

 

6. Ernst & Whitney Building, 1559 Superior Ave., 56,000 sf (It's for sale as an office/lab, but might fill up faster with residential: http://crsc.reapplications.com/user/website/PropertyProfile.asp?TransID=19229&ParentID=17938)

 

7. 1267 W. 9th Street (it's not for sale and is leasing as an office building, but this 1880-built 29,000 sf building would make an awesome small apartment building IMHO (http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16389505/1267-W-9th-St-Cleveland-OH/)

 

8. Urban League, 2930 Prospect Ave. (18,000 sf 1953-built building is completely vacant. Not a pretty building but it is close to CSU and is for sale. See: http://looplink.natl.grubb-ellis.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?stid=grubb&LID=13366372&LL=true&UOMListing=&UOMMoneyCurrency=&RentPer=PY&SRID=2207132342)

 

9.  Cathedral Square Plaza, East 9th at Rockwell, is only eight stories tall, 37% occupied and has a CVS on the ground floor. But the building isn't for sale.

 

10. 65-75 Erieview Plaza, East 12th and Hamilton, is only seven stories tall, 38% occupied and is connected to the Galleria. But the building isn't for sale.

 

I didn't include the former East Ohio Gas building, 1717 East 9th Street, because it's being listed for lease and renovation as an office building. I think the Standard Building has good occupancy. That may also be the case with 55 Public Square, but I can't say for sure. Perhaps 75 Public Square, the building between 55 Public Square and the Old Stone Church, could be a good housing conversion. But the guy who bought it, Danny Dzina, may not be someone you want to deal with. Do a Google search on him and you'll see what I mean. Anyway, those are the office properties I came up with that might be good for conversion to housing.

Bumping up this thread since I just combined it with another "Cleveland residences" thread.

 

Carry on......

What two did you combine?