^Then that means workforce population is way down.

I'm sure downtown employment is down. Also many downtown residents work outside downtown.

What was the workforce numbers at its peak and what is it now?

I'm sure downtown employment is down. Also many downtown residents work outside downtown.

 

I'm sure it's down, and up.  So no need to be overly negative on Downtown.

What was the workforce numbers at its peak and what is it now?

 

I listened to the State of Downtown City Club podcast, and Joe Marinucci stated that 125,000 "are coming into Downtown for work every day" (paraphrasing a little, but his wording was similar.)  He didn't define the area he was referring to, but I'd bet it's larger than just the CBD

Pretty sure that count is for "Downtown Cleveland and the one mile radius surrounding the central business district." (see page 11: http://www.downtowncleveland.com/media/166988)/Q3_2013.pdf

This was tweeted out by @DowntownCLE.  Not sure if this is the correct thread since it's mostly suburban home sales but it mentions the effects of the resurgence of downtown.

 

Downtown Cleveland boosting East Side home sales

Posted: Friday, April 4, 2014 11:40 am

 

CARLO WOLFF

CJN Staff Reporter | 0 comments

 

Experts in home sales say business is good in Cleveland’s eastern suburbs, though how good varies by community and price point. No matter the variety, however, all cite the resurgence of downtown Cleveland – and downtown alone – as a harbinger of the area’s residential health.

 

At the same time, they say that while interest rates are low and holding steady, low inventory is a problem.

 

 

http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/news/local/article_dc1308d4-b9b7-11e3-aa23-001a4bcf887a.html

I looked back at the 1930s census and there were about 18k people in the tracts that we would generally consider to be downtown (e.g., excluding flats west bank). I'm guessing the prisoner population was a lot smaller then too.  I wish that bogus factoid about today's downtown population being the highest ever would just go away.

 

Is the prison population included into the DCA downtown population number of 12K?

^Yes, and I think it was about 2K people in 2010 (institutionalized people in group quarters).  The 12K number also included the West Bank and some of Lakeview Terrace, which was another 2K people in 2010.  It also included some shelters, I think.

 

The most conservative 2010 census number for downtown was 5,588 people living in households (east of the river), but that probably excludes some group quarters we do want to count, like CSU dorms, so probably an undercount.

 

EDIT: and, of course, we've added hundreds of new units since 2010, so even that conservative number would be significantly higher today. The DCA report showed 5,197 units as of end of 2013.  If you multiply that by the 95% occupancy rate and an average downtown household size of 1.36 (per 2010 census), you get 6,734 people living in apartments.

while i'm not sure the incarcerated population should count, public housing and college dorm populations certainly should.

I was talking to a guy in the know on the 1717 E9th (East Ohio) building.  First phase of occupancy is targeted for July.  Also, they will start a phased occupancy of residences in the Schofield before the hotel is done.

The Millennia Companies' Garfield Building and HQ development are construction/redevelopment projects, not a discussion of markets, rents, occupancies, conditions, trends etc. Thus it was moved here:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,29227.0.html

I was talking to a guy in the know on the 1717 E9th (East Ohio) building.  First phase of occupancy is targeted for July.  Also, they will start a phased occupancy of residences in the Schofield before the hotel is done.

 

Drove down E 9th today to grab a Phoenix Coffee. Seeing the outside work elevators going up and down on BOTH sides of the street at Breuer and Schoefield....sureal!

 

Drove down E 9th today to grab a Phoenix Coffee. Seeing the outside work elevators going up and down on BOTH sides of the street at Breuer and Schoefield....sureal!

 

Welcome to my neighborhood! Though I'm there only in the daytime (and sometimes on weekends for meetings or catching up on bills). It's a busy neighborhood with lots of construction noise. And I get to peek into the upper floors of the Schoefield from my office.

 

Now if we could just get something going on the old Union Commerce Bank (ex Huntington Building). If that building is converted to housing, as rumored, that will be a very busy corner -- especially if there's some pop-up offices, shops and cafes in the massive atrium that would make a great winter garden as well as a great place to beat the heat in summer....

 

What the L-shaped Huntington/Union Commerce Bank lobby looked like in October 2011, a few day before they turned out the lights and closed it off to the public....

 

 

 

This is what the lobby has looked like since then. For 2.5 years and counting, only a lucky few people have seen it....

 

^While that building is empty, that would be a great place to shoot a movie. I wonder if the film commission ever shows it off for a possible location.

 

 

 

This is what the lobby has looked like since then. For 2.5 years and counting, only a lucky few people have seen it....

 

 

Those last two shots make me sad. Such a beautiful building.

BUMP -- Here's a happy refresh for Downtown;s new residential...not counting rumors:

 

Can you guys audit me.  Does this look correct?

 

21 new residential projects (2556 total new units):

824 total units completed

1) Avenue District -- 56 units (completed 2012)

2) Lofts at Rosetta -- 97 units (completed 2013)

3) Reserve Square -- 218 units (completed 2013)

4) The Langston -- 318 units (completed 2013)

5) Residences at the Hanna -- 102 units (completed 2013)

6) The Seasons at Perk Park -- 33 units (completed 2013)

 

772 units under construction:

7) Schofield -- 55 units (under construction for fall 2014)

8 ) The 9 -- 104 units (under construction for fall 2014)

9) Swetland Building -- 80 units (under construction for fall 2014)

10) Truman Building -- 26 units (under construction for fall 2014)

11) Residences at 1717 -- 223 units (under construction for fall 2014)

12) MT Silver -- 39 units (under construction for fall 2014)

13) Flats East Bank Phase II -- 245 units (under construction for summer 2015)

 

960 units proposed:

14) 1750 Euclid Ave -- 217 units (planned for fall 2015)

15) 1224 Huron -- 9 units (planned for 2016)

16) Park-Southworth Buildings -- 34 units (planned for 2016)

17) May Company Building -- 350 units (planned for 2016)

18) Worthington Co. Warehouse -- 83 units (planned for 2016)

19) Lincoln Building -- 17 units (planned for 2016)

20) 1220 Huron -- 80 units (planned for 2016)

21) Garfield Building -- 170 units (planned for 2016-2017)

^Great list.

 

17) May Company Building -- 350 units (planned for 2016)

 

How solid is this one? Haven't heard much about it.

Thanks!  Other than winning a $5 million State tax credit, I'm not too sure what other progress it's seen:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/12/may_co_worthington_redevelopme.html

This is what the lobby has looked like since then. For 2.5 years and counting, only a lucky few people have seen it....

 

 

KJP I used to work in the Huntington! Loved it so much. THe lobby - amazing. I used to drag my friends through there to show it off and they couldn't believe it. Such a grandeur! And with the hidden retail inside it is truly a world unto itself; though I am hopeful that street presence can be improved somehow in the next phase of its life.

 

I find it unlikely that this building will go unloved for much longer. Residential at that location is a no-brainer.

Thanks!  Other than winning a $5 million State tax credit, I'm not too sure what other progress it's seen:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/12/may_co_worthington_redevelopme.html

 

The Schofield was in the same situation for a while as well if I remember correctly.  So while it may seem like there is no action, there could be more going on behind the scenes.

Is the Huntington building the largest commercial building in Cleveland by square footage, or does Key hold that title?  heck, it may be the largest in the state.

^It's a major 1st step in financing these projects.

Is the Huntington building the largest commercial building in Cleveland by square footage, or does Key hold that title?  heck, it may be the largest in the state.

 

I don't know about in the state but it's big.  Procter & Gamble's offices in Cincinnati are pretty huge too.  If 925 was converted to residential, man they could probably get 500-600 units out of that one.

Is the Huntington building the largest commercial building in Cleveland by square footage, or does Key hold that title?  heck, it may be the largest in the state.

 

No, it's the second-largest in Cleveland at 1.3 million square feet -- Key Tower is 1.55 million square feet. BTW, the 200 Public Square (ex-BP tower) building is 1.2 million and May Co. is about 1 million square feet.

 

However, when it was built as the Union Commerce Bank building, the Huntington Building was the second-largest office building in the USA behind Merchandise Mart in Chicago.

Is the Huntington building the largest commercial building in Cleveland by square footage, or does Key hold that title?  heck, it may be the largest in the state.

 

I think the McCoy Center (JP Morgan Chase, formerly Bank One) in Columbus at 2 million sqft could be the largest commercial bldg in the state.

Welcome, casey! Long-time lurker, first-time poster?

Welcome, casey! Long-time lurker, first-time poster?

 

Bingo!  :wave:

Not sure if I've seen this posted yet:

 

http://www.downtowncleveland.com/marketupdate.aspx

 

Am I reading this correctly, the number of "for sale" units has decreased?  What went away?

Avenue district condos turning into rental units?

Great article from the WSJ about empty office buildings being converted into apartments with most of the focus on Cleveland and the Residences at 1717 (East Ohio Gas) 

 

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303626804579506073419741570?mg=reno64-wsj

^ Nice!

 

Plus an interactive map:

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304101504579544080754978564

Nice find! I liked this part:

 

The conversions have been so profitable, says Mr. Price, that K&D is now selling properties in the suburbs to focus on downtown and is in talks to buy at least two additional office buildings that it plans to convert.

^925?  One can hope.  FWIW, the guy I know who is heavily involved with Cleveland Construction said that K&D is not skimping at all on the materials in these conversions.

I passed by someone who was guiding a tour for some suits down Euclid and it sounded like possibly the Halle building would be one of them.

Great article from the WSJ about empty office buildings being converted into apartments with most of the focus on Cleveland and the Residences at 1717 (East Ohio Gas) 

 

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303626804579506073419741570?mg=reno64-wsj

 

The conversions have been so profitable, says Mr. Price, that K&D is now selling properties in the suburbs to focus on downtown and is in talks to buy at least two additional office buildings that it plans to convert.

 

It'll be interesting to see what office buildings might become housing. 

^925?  One can hope.  FWIW, the guy I know who is heavily involved with Cleveland Construction said that K&D is not skimping at all on the materials in these conversions.

 

Optima owns 925 Euclid and I would be surprised if they sold it. I think they would prefer to convert it themselves.

When did Optima buy 925?  My guess is if it was more than 5 years ago, they could probably sell it now as is, and turn a huge profit. 

^They bought it in 2010.

When did Optima buy 925?  My guess is if it was more than 5 years ago, they could probably sell it now as is, and turn a huge profit. 

 

Optima bought it in June 2010 for $18.5 million. Remember they (and this property) were a finalist for the county HQ?

When did Optima buy 925?  My guess is if it was more than 5 years ago, they could probably sell it now as is, and turn a huge profit. 

 

Optima bought it in June 2010 for $18.5 million. Remember they (and this property) were a finalist for the county HQ?

 

Thanks.  I do rememebr that.  I think we ended up in a better position with what transpired.

 

What did Geis pick up Ameritrust for?  I know the circumstances were different, but still. 

As a commercial real estate portfolio owner controlling alot of Downtown Clevelands office space (most of it to be exact), I do not envision Optima tackling 925 on their own.  Similar to what they did with the Westin on St. Clair in teaming with Sage Hospitality, I could see them partner with K&D, or the likes, to convert this.  On the other hand, I could see them make a profit off of it, and completely unload it.  Either way, Schochet is in the business of making money, and will not hold this building for "ransom" very long.  Something in the near term will be done. 

When did Optima buy 925?  My guess is if it was more than 5 years ago, they could probably sell it now as is, and turn a huge profit. 

 

Optima bought it in June 2010 for $18.5 million. Remember they (and this property) were a finalist for the county HQ?

 

Irrelevant. I'm fairly certain THIS is why they bought it.

 

 

I have a lot of hesitancies about the prospects of 925 as a residential conversion.  For example, how much does it cost to heat and cool that lobby, and what effect would that have on rent.  It would also be a shame to close off such a great space to the general public.  While I hated the idea of mixing the county HQ in with a residential conversion, I do imagine there will have to be some kind of significant mixed use component. 

I know it would be out the window for condo conversion with using a historic tax credit (some correct me if I'm wrong), but with that lobby and location...925 screams highend condos.  I would highly consider buying there if these became "for sale" residential units.  (My dream has always been buying a unit atop a new tower of 515 Euclid).  But as Hts121 is saying, probably a mixed-use of office and residential is its best future.

I've said this before and it's far fetched but could the configuration and floor plates of 925 support a department store in the lobby and lower levels? I've always thought it would be an amazing way for retail to come back. :)

 

Irrelevant. I'm fairly certain THIS is why they bought it.

 

 

Nice!

 

Sammy's Metropolitan Restaurant & Ballroom is up there in the old zeppelin station, but I think they should invite this restaurant to bid on it....

 

 

I've said this before and it's far fetched but could the configuration and floor plates of 925 support a department store in the lobby and lower levels? I've always thought it would be an amazing way for retail to come back. :)

 

Now that'd be a great CityTarget! :)

I've heard two rumors from local developers about 925. One that they are slowly kicking tenants out to mothball it. The other was on this chart that showed the largest projects in Cleveland for the next five years. On the chart there was a $130 million price tag for some sort of renovation it wasn't detailed. I assume though it would be for a hotel or apartments or both.

I've heard two rumors from local developers about 925. One that they are slowly kicking tenants out to mothball it. The other was on this chart that showed the largest projects in Cleveland for the next five years. On the chart there was a $130 million price tag for some sort of renovation it wasn't detailed. I assume though it would be for a hotel or apartments or both.

 

I think those two could be interrelated.  Mothball it for near term (6mo to a 1yr) and then after the Convention Center and nearby properties have been up and running see what the market can bear.  Maybe that is a residential conversion, maybe that is fixing it up as newer offices, maybe a hotel, or some combination.  Like we all ave said, this corner will be very different in a year.

Great article from the WSJ about empty office buildings being converted into apartments with most of the focus on Cleveland and the Residences at 1717 (East Ohio Gas) 

 

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303626804579506073419741570?mg=reno64-wsj

 

The conversions have been so profitable, says Mr. Price, that K&D is now selling properties in the suburbs to focus on downtown and is in talks to buy at least two additional office buildings that it plans to convert.

 

It'll be interesting to see what office buildings might become housing. 

 

 

Cue a broken record for my next comment:  If the city had found a way to prevent the Columbia Building from being torn down it would definitely be in process of residential conversion right now.  Probably the same for the Stanley block.

I hope the city doesn't do anything that STUPID again for at least a generation.