August 14, 20195 yr Rising Rents article. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/originals/vibrant-downtown-cleveland-neighborhoods-draw-new-development-and-rising-rents-pricing-many-people-out
August 17, 20195 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 18, 20195 yr That's great news. It was needlessly difficult for me to get a mortgage to buy my condo last year. Everyone wanted to give me money to by a single family home, but only Huntington was willing to write a mortgage for a condo. I can't begin to fathom how much sprawl this has led to. I was adamant I wanted to buy a condo instead of a SFH, but I'm sure there are many people out there who would have bought a condo in a dense neighborhood, who instead ended up in a SFH in the burbs because they were steered that way with the financing.
August 19, 20195 yr Author Once a developer's nightmare, condos are making a comeback in Northeast Ohio https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/once-developers-nightmare-condos-are-making-comeback-northeast-ohio "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 19, 20195 yr It seems as though they have corrected the workaround. Does anyone have access to give insights on what they wrote about?
August 23, 20195 yr from Crain's: "Looking to construct an apartment building? Cleveland is a pretty good place to do it, according to a report from the National Apartment Association. The association's "Barriers to Apartment Construction Index" report ranked 58 cities based on factors that make construction more difficult, limit the supply of housing and, as the organization sees its, affect affordability. Cleveland ranked No. 7 of the 58, making it one of the easiest cities in which to build apartments...." Here's what the findings for Cleveland said: "The older Cleveland metro ranks better than most major markets on supply barriers with an overall index of 0.86, though overall apartment demand is the lowest of the larger national metros surveyed (Sioux Falls is lower). Respondents cite the expected land availability as most restrictive, mostly on heavy land use regulations, along with density restrictions driven by height and parking restrictions. Also cited as restrictive are land use regulations that burden the entitlement process and a generally lengthy approval timeline. Political complexity noted the heavy influence of local councils on the apartment development outcomes. Cleveland posts the lowest median rental incomes of major markets and these incomes are 14% below the requirement for average rents of $880. A significant 46% of metro rental stock is seen as more affordable STAR units found in older, distressed neighborhoods." https://www.naahq.org/sites/default/files/naa-documents/naa_btac_index_summary_cleveland.pdf https://www.naahq.org/news-publications/barriers-apartment-construction-index https://www.crainscleveland.com/scott-suttell-blog/apartments-are-relatively-easy-build-cleveland-survey-finds Edited August 23, 20195 yr by Pugu
September 17, 20195 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 17, 20195 yr 11 hours ago, KJP said: The growth from when I last lived downtown 5 years ago is truly amazing.
September 17, 20195 yr I moved downtown in February, and its as great as I hoped it would be. Come join us!!!
September 17, 20195 yr On 8/23/2019 at 3:27 PM, Pugu said: from Crain's: "Looking to construct an apartment building? Cleveland is a pretty good place to do it, according to a report from the National Apartment Association. The association's "Barriers to Apartment Construction Index" report ranked 58 cities based on factors that make construction more difficult, limit the supply of housing and, as the organization sees its, affect affordability. Cleveland ranked No. 7 of the 58, making it one of the easiest cities in which to build apartments...." Here's what the findings for Cleveland said: "The older Cleveland metro ranks better than most major markets on supply barriers with an overall index of 0.86, though overall apartment demand is the lowest of the larger national metros surveyed (Sioux Falls is lower). Respondents cite the expected land availability as most restrictive, mostly on heavy land use regulations, along with density restrictions driven by height and parking restrictions. Also cited as restrictive are land use regulations that burden the entitlement process and a generally lengthy approval timeline. Political complexity noted the heavy influence of local councils on the apartment development outcomes. Cleveland posts the lowest median rental incomes of major markets and these incomes are 14% below the requirement for average rents of $880. A significant 46% of metro rental stock is seen as more affordable STAR units found in older, distressed neighborhoods." https://www.naahq.org/sites/default/files/naa-documents/naa_btac_index_summary_cleveland.pdf https://www.naahq.org/news-publications/barriers-apartment-construction-index https://www.crainscleveland.com/scott-suttell-blog/apartments-are-relatively-easy-build-cleveland-survey-finds Clicking around that site, am I understanding it correct that they only project that the multi-family demand from 2017 - 2030 is only 4K units for Cleveland?? Cincinnati is calling for 11.9K and Columbus is at 27K. Looking at larger faster growing cities, it's really elevated, Austin shows a demand for 98.1K and Atlanta is a whopping 144K Just kind of interesting to see the various demands I suppose. Edited September 17, 20195 yr by Gnoraa
September 17, 20195 yr 15 minutes ago, Gnoraa said: Clicking around that site, am I understanding it correct that they only project that the multi-family demand from 2017 - 2030 is only 4K units for Cleveland?? Cincinnati is calling for 11.9K and Columbus is at 27K. Looking at larger faster growing cities, it's really elevated, Austin shows a demand for 98.1K and Atlanta is a whopping 144K Just kinda of interesting to see the various demands I suppose. I recall 4k being the projected demand for downtown only. It was in a DCA quarterly report recently.
September 17, 20195 yr ^Not sure who made that prediction and am surprised DCA created it or otherwise support it, but i think over the 13 years between 2017 and 2030 demand Downtown is Far greater than 4,000 units. what is that--about 6,000 people? Barring a major recession, I'd say Downtown demand is at least 10,000-15,000 units over the next 11 years.
September 19, 20195 yr On 9/17/2019 at 2:39 PM, Gnoraa said: Clicking around that site, am I understanding it correct that they only project that the multi-family demand from 2017 - 2030 is only 4K units for Cleveland?? Cincinnati is calling for 11.9K and Columbus is at 27K. Looking at larger faster growing cities, it's really elevated, Austin shows a demand for 98.1K and Atlanta is a whopping 144K Just kind of interesting to see the various demands I suppose. demand and reality are very different things. ATL is a ghost town in downtown and midtown. those people do not want to give up their cars. it's urban sprawl.
September 22, 20195 yr On 9/17/2019 at 9:27 AM, mack34 said: I moved downtown in February, and its as great as I hoped it would be. Come join us!!! That's great to hear. What led you to move downtown?
September 22, 20195 yr I've always wanted to live downtown since i was at Cleveland state 30 years ago. But life got in the way. I never liked suburban life...and I love that I can walk everywhere, don't have to worry about traffic jams leaving events or Uber surge pricing. It really is remarkably convient and fun.
September 22, 20195 yr 2 hours ago, mack34 said: I've always wanted to live downtown since i was at Cleveland state 30 years ago. But life got in the way. I never liked suburban life...and I love that I can walk everywhere, don't have to worry about traffic jams leaving events or Uber surge pricing. It really is remarkably convient and fun. I’ve lived downtown for 13 years now. I love it & will never live anywhere else but downtown. Nothing beats walking to work every day.
October 30, 20195 yr Downtown Tenants being left behind. https://www.news5cleveland.com/a-better-land/its-just-not-attainable-cleveland-boasts-downtown-development-but-some-residents-are-left-behind
October 30, 20195 yr Just now, simplythis said: Downtown Tenants being left behind. https://www.news5cleveland.com/a-better-land/its-just-not-attainable-cleveland-boasts-downtown-development-but-some-residents-are-left-behind Yeah...I got left behind after living downtown for stints in 2008-2009 and 2010-2012. For a two bedroom to support what had then become my family, it was just not possible at my income level at the time, unless I didn't care about saving any money for the future. I'm not sure why people are bitter though. You can't always get what you want? I ended up buying a house within walking distance of a rapid station. Monthly mortgage, property tax, utilities, etc is lower than a 1 BR downtown. Maybe when we strike it big we can move back.
October 30, 20195 yr How many people want to live in Manhattan but can’t? I don’t think this is really the symptom of a problem. It’s naturally what happens when a city center changes for the better.
October 30, 20195 yr Yeah this is pretty silly. Rising rents are 1.) The result of increased demand, and 2.) Needed to justify continued new construction and renovations, which will eventually provide more choices and price points for downtown living.
October 31, 20195 yr 7 hours ago, sizzlinbeef said: Yeah...I got left behind after living downtown for stints in 2008-2009 and 2010-2012. For a two bedroom to support what had then become my family, it was just not possible at my income level at the time, unless I didn't care about saving any money for the future. I'm not sure why people are bitter though. You can't always get what you want? I ended up buying a house within walking distance of a rapid station. Monthly mortgage, property tax, utilities, etc is lower than a 1 BR downtown. Maybe when we strike it big we can move back. The same exact thing happened for me about a year and a half ago. I loved living downtown and would love to still be there, but it got way too expensive. So I did the next best thing and bought a condo steps away from a rapid station. Even with a mortgage and HOA fees, I pay less than I did in rent, and am still a cheap, easy, quick ride away (when the trains are running) from everything I loved. Just because I can't afford to be in the middle of it all, doesn't mean I can't still enjoy everything downtown has to offer. Nothing to be bitter about. Another reason to expand our transit though - so more people can have easy access to enjoy and share in downtown's success.
October 31, 20195 yr 12 hours ago, PoshSteve said: The same exact thing happened for me about a year and a half ago. I loved living downtown and would love to still be there, but it got way too expensive. So I did the next best thing and bought a condo steps away from a rapid station. Even with a mortgage and HOA fees, I pay less than I did in rent, and am still a cheap, easy, quick ride away (when the trains are running) from everything I loved. Just because I can't afford to be in the middle of it all, doesn't mean I can't still enjoy everything downtown has to offer. Nothing to be bitter about. Another reason to expand our transit though - so more people can have easy access to enjoy and share in downtown's success. Moving back to Cleveland next month and purchased a home near a rapid station for the same reason........ but are there issues with the train rapid service? I will be commuting downtown for work daily.
October 31, 20195 yr Author 18 minutes ago, ytown2ctown said: Moving back to Cleveland next month and purchased a home near a rapid station for the same reason........ but are there issues with the train rapid service? I will be commuting downtown for work daily. Welcome back to Cleveland! Weekdays are OK. When they do repairs and shut down sections of the line, they're usually on the weekends -- unless it's a really big job like the west side repairs this past summer and the summer before. We usually discuss RTA projects here: But sometimes we discuss major rail construction projects here: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 2, 20195 yr On 10/30/2019 at 8:32 PM, PoshSteve said: The same exact thing happened for me about a year and a half ago. I loved living downtown and would love to still be there, but it got way too expensive. So I did the next best thing and bought a condo steps away from a rapid station. Even with a mortgage and HOA fees, I pay less than I did in rent, and am still a cheap, easy, quick ride away (when the trains are running) from everything I loved. Just because I can't afford to be in the middle of it all, doesn't mean I can't still enjoy everything downtown has to offer. Nothing to be bitter about. Another reason to expand our transit though - so more people can have easy access to enjoy and share in downtown's success. What is your definition of "expensive" as that is something unique to each person. In cities outside of NYC, SanFran, Miami (city), CHI, Boston, purchasing a home is still cheaper than rent. What nabe did you purchase? It could be the next "it" hood. now that Downtown is showing the sparks of going vertical, residential development, will fan out. We see what has happened in Ohio City and D-S and that their being reconnected residentially and commercially along Detroit. With development spiking south along major thoroughfares, now Lorain is ripe for development going West. Same on the East. CSU is sort of a visual barrier, but I suspect development between CSU and the innerBelt will be next to develop. Lakeside, St. Clair, Payne, Superior Prspect & Carneige are ripe for development. I've often wondered by there are NO highrises along Carneigie between Ontario and CSU. Bases could be retail, who would complain about trucks, pools, amenity decks etc, that face south. There would be unobstructed city views north a huge selling factor. As I said in another thread those working, living and visiting areas just east of the InnerBelt, should start to upgrade or look to sell.
November 2, 20195 yr @MyTwoSense I was paying 770/month for a 590sft one bedroom. All of the rental units in the building were going to be sold off as condos, with my unit going for $130k, which would have been too much (when adding in HOA fees) for a single, mid-level government worker with student loans to get financing. I could have continued to rent somewhere else downtown, but we all know anything as cheap as what I had been paying is non-existent. While I could have paid more per month, I decided I didn't want to throw away that much money a month to landlords. I bought a condo in Shaker (after being outbid on a couple places in the Gold Coast). I'm right along Van Aken and the Blue Line near Lee. While I don't see it becoming a new "it" neighborhood, it's stable, and I'm able to walk to things like Heinen's, coffee, dry cleaners, library. Being on the Blue Line was the big selling point for me though.
November 2, 20195 yr 31 minutes ago, PoshSteve said: @MyTwoSense I was paying 770/month for a 590sft one bedroom. All of the rental units in the building were going to be sold off as condos, with my unit going for $130k, which would have been too much (when adding in HOA fees) for a single, mid-level government worker with student loans to get financing. I could have continued to rent somewhere else downtown, but we all know anything as cheap as what I had been paying is non-existent. While I could have paid more per month, I decided I didn't want to throw away that much money a month to landlords. I bought a condo in Shaker (after being outbid on a couple places in the Gold Coast). I'm right along Van Aken and the Blue Line near Lee. While I don't see it becoming a new "it" neighborhood, it's stable, and I'm able to walk to things like Heinen's, coffee, dry cleaners, library. Being on the Blue Line was the big selling point for me though. 590 sft? WHAT?! Well I grew up in Shaker So that area is stable and you will make a ROI. That area is filled with solid middle class/upper middle class SFH, Two Family homes, condos and apartments. Also there are a lot of people who want to stay in the heights that downsize to condos along Van Aken. It's a good solid neighborhood with good transit. Who never know I may see you at Mr. Hero. lol
November 19, 20195 yr Author So it's at 93 percent and rents are also rising? Cleveland's downtown/urban core market is nowhere near close to saturation.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 19, 20195 yr 14 minutes ago, KJP said: So it's at 93 percent and rents are also rising? Cleveland's downtown/urban core market is nowhere near close to saturation.... Great news! I'd still like to see a bit more equity downtown, though
November 19, 20195 yr Author Going to see some worker housing i.e. micro units at the Centennial and add at least one other building project that's still in the embryonic stages. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 20, 20195 yr the 60 units sold downtown at and average price of $239k is nothing to sneeze at. I would like to know what type, luxury, attended or market rate,
November 20, 20195 yr Wasn't it at 95% a few years ago? Is 92.6% really something to be excited about? It makes me fear people are just headed to Lakewood or Cleveland Heights over Downtown Cleveland Edited November 20, 20195 yr by AsDustinFoxWouldSay wrong wording
November 20, 20195 yr 15 minutes ago, Htsguy said: ^Ok gang...self control...please don't feed. It's literally an honest question.
November 20, 20195 yr 27 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said: Wasn't it at 95% a few years ago? Is 96% really something to be excited about? It makes me fear people are just headed to Lakewood or Cleveland Heights over Downtown Cleveland There are more units. Many of them hit the market within the last few months. It takes time to lease up. 93% is impressive gien how many new units there are.
November 20, 20195 yr Author Sadly, victims of local media don't know how many units or square feet of new construction have been added to the downtown market. I'm trying to do my best to provide the necessary context..... http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/02/ten-million-square-feet-of-downtown.html Edited November 21, 20195 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 2, 20195 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 3, 20205 yr New Year New Downtown. https://www.wkyc.com/article/money/economy/new-year-new-downtown-cleveland/95-a67f56a7-cc49-4f1a-8771-db48d19d9c71 Does anyone know if Ohio City W.25 St counts in the downtown numbers or not. Probably not - but where does downtown end - West Bank ?
January 3, 20205 yr 22 minutes ago, simplythis said: New Year New Downtown. https://www.wkyc.com/article/money/economy/new-year-new-downtown-cleveland/95-a67f56a7-cc49-4f1a-8771-db48d19d9c71 Does anyone know if Ohio City W.25 St counts in the downtown numbers or not. Probably not - but where does downtown end - West Bank ? It does not include W 25th. If I recall correctly, it goes from E 30th (or maybe the Innerbelt, I forget which), to the river, but includes the west bank north of Detroit, and possibly Lakeview Terrace Edited January 3, 20205 yr by TPH2
January 3, 20205 yr 7 minutes ago, TBideon said: Those numbers include the inmates from the Justice Center too? They do not.
January 3, 20205 yr On 1/3/2020 at 12:41 PM, simplythis said: New Year New Downtown. https://www.wkyc.com/article/money/economy/new-year-new-downtown-cleveland/95-a67f56a7-cc49-4f1a-8771-db48d19d9c71 Does anyone know if Ohio City W.25 St counts in the downtown numbers or not. Probably not - but where does downtown end - West Bank ? Can you imagine if they actually got to 30,000 by 2030? Let’s go high and say there are still enough future conversion units that 4000 people can live in (75 public square, landmark building, centennial, and other places yet to be thought of/announced). That still means 6000 people or about 4000 units (assuming a unit has 1.5 people on average which is what I think the multiplier DCA uses) of brand new housing. Can you imagine what what 4000 units of brand new housing in new construction buildings would do to downtown? Not to mention all the retail businesses that would come to downtown as a result of that population. Exciting to think about! Edited January 9, 20205 yr by cle_guy90
January 24, 20205 yr Thankfully it sounds like they managed to get this out quick UPDATE: Fire stamped out at Reserve Square in downtown Cleveland; East 12th shut down (live) https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/01/24/fire-downtown-cleveland-high-rise-prompts-heavy-first-responder-presence/
February 18, 20205 yr Author Population boom: Downtown Cleveland will see 20K residents by year end as DCA sets new goal of 30K https://www.freshwatercleveland.com/breaking-ground/DowntownGrowth021820.aspx "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 3, 20205 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 21, 20205 yr Downtown Cleveland Alliance just released the 2020 Downtown Digs publication! It has some great features on the residential properties and living downtown. https://www.downtowncleveland.com/DCA/media/DCA_Media/DIGS_2020_FINAL.pdf
May 19, 20205 yr Author Downtown Now: Cleveland’s Core Continues to Grow New “for sale” options put the city on track to hit its long-term goal of 30,000 residents by 2030. It’s all about reaching a tipping point. Hit a certain point and downtown growth will perpetuate development — an ever-expanding upward spiral that will make Cleveland truly world class. According to a Downtown Cleveland Housing Study commissioned by the Downtown Cleveland Alliance and developed by Philadelphia-based Urban Partners, Downtown Cleveland needs 800 “for sale” housing units to reach its long-term goal of having 30,000 residents by 2030. Thanks to new developments by Knez Homes and the Frangos Group, the city is off to a great start on reaching that goal. MORE: https://clevelandmagazine.com/cleader/business/articles/downtown-now-cleveland-s-core-continues-to-grow#.XsQjaRL3VsU.twitter "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 31, 20205 yr So not the most positive first quarter for Downtown housing. Not only has the occupancy dropped which is expected but the total number of units occupied (if my understanding is correct) is also down. Yes it’s just by two but one would have hoped the number of units occupied would still be increasing. At 86.7% occupancy and the flattening of number of units occupied one would imagine that developers would think twice before doing any more residential projects if things continue like this. https://www.downtowncleveland.com/DCA/media/DCA_Media/2020-Q1-REPORT.pdf 2020 - 7520 at 86.7% = 6520 2019 - 7167 at 91% = 6522
May 31, 20205 yr Just now, freefourur said: ^ 15% unemployment will do that It could be but it’s quarter 1 which ends in March. I don’t think much of the Coronavirus impacted occupancy much in March. Things began to shut down mid March which wouldn’t have affected people leaving their leases or not signing new ones till at least April’s imo.
Create an account or sign in to comment