^ agree.  Penn State Football shouldve been given the death penalty.  No other penalty would serve equivalent justice.  Wild that someone thinks Penn State got screwed in that situation. 

^ Because Penn State's issue was not an NCAA matter. It was horrible but did not fall under the purview of the NCAA. The school should have been severely punished, which they were, but by the NCAA they got screwed and the NCAA admits that now too.

 

Would it have been better if Urban Meyer had fired wide receiver coach Zach Smith in 2015 instead of 2018?  Yes

 

Is this the end for Urban Meyer?  No

 

Tressel was fired for far, far less.

 

Additionally, he made a denial last week

 

Tressel denied it (lied) to the NCAA.  Lying to the press isn't a NCAA offense as far as I know.

 

It's bad.  For any normal high-ranking official, executive, coach, he's probably gone.  But OSU fb is a borderline cult, so...

 

Also, the goalposts on "fireable" have shifted massively since 2011.

 

It would be a bad precedent to fire him over a mob mentality here. This is not anything near Penn State or Tressel. 1) the situation involved 2 consenting adults in a domestic dispute.

 

"Consenting" might be a bit of a stretch here.  Failure to report to the police is not consent.  It might be very relevant for the significance of the issue for Meyer, but it is not consent.

 

Whether Meyer knew of marital issues or a dispute between Smith and his wife were not relevant as long as it remained a private affair between the married couple.

 

I agree with this, but only up to a point.  Yes, the fact that no police report was filed means that the official record gives Meyer no reason to know whether it was just a married couple having a regular marital fight, or if it had risen to the level of criminal domestic abuse.  But there are suggestions here that things went further than that.

 

I draw a line between not saying something yourself and actively discouraging someone else from saying something.  Meyer is not a lawyer.

 

If I were in Meyer's place, I do not think I'd have gone straight to the police myself.  I do not even know if I'd have encouraged Courtney Smith to go straight to the police herself, just based on text messages.  My first reaction is that I would have told her to talk to a lawyer.  Even as a lawyer myself, I'd be telling her to talk to a different lawyer, because I know next to zero about either criminal law or domestic relations law.  And honestly, considering Meyer's millions and the stake he should have had in this, I'd have offered to pay for that lawyer myself if she was in a position where she wouldn't or couldn't use her own account (or, perhaps more seriously, one she shared with her alleged abuser) to pay for that lawyer.  And above all else, I would never ask any friends or surrogates to discourage reporting, if she was inclined to go straight to the police.  (To clarify: My issue with going straight to the police is that if the police investigated but felt there was not sufficient evidence to charge, there'd be a risk of retaliation from the abuser if there really was something there, just with insufficient evidence.)

 

Shelley Meyer is a nurse and obviously a friend of Courtney's, so I can understand that Courtney went there first.  But this isn't something that should just involve talking to a nurse and/or talking to a friend.

 

If Meyer simply didn't know, I'm willing to say he should not be fired based on "should have known" principles.  If he did know but didn't know the seriousness until recently when he fired Coach Smith, then maybe the same story, but the university's investigation will be eminently justified, because what he knew and when he knew it becomes very relevant then to how serious his inaction is.  And if he had any hand in actively discouraging reporting or seeking professional help, then my final call is likely to be, sad as I am to admit it, that he should go.  I'm disappointed enough to hear it alleged that Earle Bruce may have played a part in active discouragement.

^ Because Penn State's issue was not an NCAA matter. It was horrible but did not fall under the purview of the NCAA.

 

I never got this argument.

 

Hiding pedophilia in your football program -- not NCAA.

Finding out who paid for a $200 tattoo -- get the NCAA hanging judge.

 

I get it's a criminal offense vs. rules violation but how many people walked away with no punishment that knew what was going on over there, inside and outside the program. How many people are currently working at PSU and managed to "dodge a bullet"? We'll never know.

^ Because Penn State's issue was not an NCAA matter. It was horrible but did not fall under the purview of the NCAA.

 

I never got this argument.

 

Hiding pedophilia in your football program -- not NCAA.

Finding out who paid for a $200 tattoo -- get the NCAA hanging judge.

 

I get it's a criminal offense vs. rules violation but how many people walked away with no punishment that knew what was going on over there, inside and outside the program. It happened for decades.

 

 

Because the Penn State matter is much more akin the North Carolina cheating issue which was deemed not to be an NCAA matter despite the fact it was systemic. There were no NCAA regulations regarding the UNC matter, same with Penn State. 

James O'Keefe is teasing a new video set to come out today detailing that Urban Meyer knew.  But...it's James O'Keefe, so get your salt ready.

 

EDIT: Apparently it's under cover videos of players detailing other abuses.

Would it have been better if Urban Meyer had fired wide receiver coach Zach Smith in 2015 instead of 2018?  Yes

 

Is this the end for Urban Meyer?  No

 

Tressel was fired for far, far less.

 

Additionally, he made a denial last week

 

Tressel denied it (lied) to the NCAA.  Lying to the press isn't a NCAA offense as far as I know.

 

It's bad.  For any normal high-ranking official, executive, coach, he's probably gone.  But OSU fb is a borderline cult, so...

 

Also, the goalposts on "fireable" have shifted massively since 2011.

 

It would be a bad precedent to fire him over a mob mentality here. This is not anything near Penn State or Tressel. 1) the situation involved 2 consenting adults in a domestic dispute.

 

"Consenting" might be a bit of a stretch here.  Failure to report to the police is not consent.  It might be very relevant for the significance of the issue for Meyer, but it is not consent.

 

Whether Meyer knew of marital issues or a dispute between Smith and his wife were not relevant as long as it remained a private affair between the married couple.

 

I agree with this, but only up to a point.  Yes, the fact that no police report was filed means that the official record gives Meyer no reason to know whether it was just a married couple having a regular marital fight, or if it had risen to the level of criminal domestic abuse.  But there are suggestions here that things went further than that.

 

I draw a line between not saying something yourself and actively discouraging someone else from saying something.  Meyer is not a lawyer.

 

If I were in Meyer's place, I do not think I'd have gone straight to the police myself.  I do not even know if I'd have encouraged Courtney Smith to go straight to the police herself, just based on text messages.  My first reaction is that I would have told her to talk to a lawyer.  Even as a lawyer myself, I'd be telling her to talk to a different lawyer, because I know next to zero about either criminal law or domestic relations law.  And honestly, considering Meyer's millions and the stake he should have had in this, I'd have offered to pay for that lawyer myself if she was in a position where she wouldn't or couldn't use her own account (or, perhaps more seriously, one she shared with her alleged abuser) to pay for that lawyer.  And above all else, I would never ask any friends or surrogates to discourage reporting, if she was inclined to go straight to the police.  (To clarify: My issue with going straight to the police is that if the police investigated but felt there was not sufficient evidence to charge, there'd be a risk of retaliation from the abuser if there really was something there, just with insufficient evidence.)

 

Shelley Meyer is a nurse and obviously a friend of Courtney's, so I can understand that Courtney went there first.  But this isn't something that should just involve talking to a nurse and/or talking to a friend.

 

If Meyer simply didn't know, I'm willing to say he should not be fired based on "should have known" principles.  If he did know but didn't know the seriousness until recently when he fired Coach Smith, then maybe the same story, but the university's investigation will be eminently justified, because what he knew and when he knew it becomes very relevant then to how serious his inaction is.  And if he had any hand in actively discouraging reporting or seeking professional help, then my final call is likely to be, sad as I am to admit it, that he should go.  I'm disappointed enough to hear it alleged that Earle Bruce may have played a part in active discouragement.

 

I do agree with your conclusions for the most part with the exception that the firing would be deemed justified under his contract for an issue that surfaced in 2015 before his current contract was in effect.

^ Because Penn State's issue was not an NCAA matter. It was horrible but did not fall under the purview of the NCAA.

 

I never got this argument.

 

Hiding pedophilia in your football program -- not NCAA.

Finding out who paid for a $200 tattoo -- get the NCAA hanging judge.

 

I get it's a criminal offense vs. rules violation but how many people walked away with no punishment that knew what was going on over there, inside and outside the program. It happened for decades.

 

 

Because the Penn State matter is much more akin the North Carolina cheating issue which was deemed not to be an NCAA matter despite the fact it was systemic. There were no NCAA regulations regarding the UNC matter, same with Penn State.

 

A cheating scandal is not even comparable with a pedophilia cover up by the university. Just because there are "no rules" doesn't mean you let a program walk. There are always exceptions and the PSU case was certainly one

^ Because Penn State's issue was not an NCAA matter. It was horrible but did not fall under the purview of the NCAA. The school should have been severely punished, which they were, but by the NCAA they got screwed and the NCAA admits that now too.

 

The same NCAA that everyone consistently ridicules for being a joke? Like NOW the NCAA’s governing matters? The coach was having sex with minors in the facility locker rooms and the coach knew about it. Death penalty.

You are trying to have the wrong source NCAA imply the penalty. This was not saying something did not horribly go wrong at Penn State but only saying it was not the NCAA's place to act. It was the responsibility of other parties.

 

It is like saying the police did not do their job on punishing a DUI offender so instead we are going to have the IRS level penalties in the name of justice. It does not work like that

James O'Keefe is teasing a new video set to come out today detailing that Urban Meyer knew.  But...it's James O'Keefe, so get your salt ready.

 

EDIT: Apparently it's under cover videos of players detailing other abuses.

 

I'm intrigued to see what this is all about....

I deal with DV cases from all sides.  Here, the wife appears to have gone to great lengths to cover up whatever was happening, in order to preserve the husband's job at OSU.  Given all we now know, it's hard to believe the head coach would have had no part in suggesting that course of action.

 

Funny story about him:  my friend, of Indian heritage, is a doctor and a big Buckeye fan.  He went on a cruise where he got to meet Urban Meyer.  After he told Urban about his line of work, Urban said something like "oh yeah, I guess you people are real good at that stuff."  So, he's not what I'd call woke.

Legally if Urban Meyer gets fired is not the issue I don't believe, it could be violation of Title IX or not, but I don't think he survives whether it was illegal or not, too much backlash.

The one thing we must keep in mind is everyone deserves their due process before we cast judgment upon them.

didnt a non-columbus news outlet break the tressel story too?

 

i read the powell police has visited smith’s house many times for domestic dispute calls. there are no charges, but it seems pretty clear everybody knew about this guy.

 

so its very troubling meyer kept him around for so long. its a real moral failing to fall back on well there were no charges filed when you knew this shite was going on. not that i expect high morals in the world of college football, but meyer was playing with fire with this guy. it does smack of him turning a blind eye for a long time like paterno did with sandusky.

I deal with DV cases from all sides.  Here, the wife appears to have gone to great lengths to cover up whatever was happening, in order to preserve the husband's job at OSU.  Given all we now know, it's hard to believe the head coach would have had no part in suggesting that course of action.

 

I don't think that's not an apt description. She did send the texts to just about everyone. More like she complied with others who went to great lengths to cover this up.

The one issue I have of these matters, is that while they are bad, they almost become like a Good Samaritan clause. I believe in doing the right thing, but I do not think the law or contract should obligate this because there are often so many intangibles that are there which are not black and white.  It sounds like Meyer is going to take a fall on this but it is a shame in my opinion.

didnt a non-columbus news outlet break the tressel story too?

 

i read the powell police has visited smith’s house many times for domestic dispute calls. there are no charges, but it seems pretty clear everybody knew about this guy.

 

There are still a lot that we don't know. Or maybe I just don't know. We these dispute calls based on physical violence? If they're based on them yelling at each other that's a big difference.

The one thing we must keep in mind is everyone deserves their due process before we cast judgment upon them.

Yeah that doesn't exist with today's media

Without a victim who's willing to testify, criminal charges aren't going anywhere.  A trial is held, the victim doesn't show up, the accused goes home.  The victim could be charged with contempt but that wouldn't solve anything.

I deal with DV cases from all sides.  Here, the wife appears to have gone to great lengths to cover up whatever was happening, in order to preserve the husband's job at OSU.  Given all we now know, it's hard to believe the head coach would have had no part in suggesting that course of action.

 

Funny story about him:  my friend, of Indian heritage, is a doctor and a big Buckeye fan.  He went on a cruise where he got to meet Urban Meyer.  After he told Urban about his line of work, Urban said something like "oh yeah, I guess you people are real good at that stuff."  So, he's not what I'd call woke.

 

 

ha good example of funny not funny. you people. the calling card of the lowbrow. urban meyer trump voter. surpriiiize.

 

yeah, but to be fare a lot of coaches would probably do stuff like that. its a carryover from what they say to players in practice lol. they only need to be woke about what the opponent is doing.

Without a victim who's willing to testify, criminal charges aren't going anywhere.  A trial is held, the victim doesn't show up, the accused goes home.  The victim could be charged with contempt but that wouldn't solve anything.

 

You don't excuse the victim. Even though it may be emotionally difficult, if it is important, the victim has a duty to do what is right.

didnt a non-columbus news outlet break the tressel story too?

 

i read the powell police has visited smith’s house many times for domestic dispute calls. there are no charges, but it seems pretty clear everybody knew about this guy.

 

There are still a lot that we don't know. Or maybe I just don't know. We these dispute calls based on physical violence? If they're based on them yelling at each other that's a big difference.

 

true enough, but there are many incidents over a long period. thats a moral failing and concerning. would osu fire meyer for it? probably not, but if they dont with #metoo, etc. that wont go over well.

didnt a non-columbus news outlet break the tressel story too?

 

i read the powell police has visited smith’s house many times for domestic dispute calls. there are no charges, but it seems pretty clear everybody knew about this guy.

 

There are still a lot that we don't know. Or maybe I just don't know. We these dispute calls based on physical violence? If they're based on them yelling at each other that's a big difference.

 

Reading between the lines, I'm thinking there was physical violence involved here.  (I agree, it would be a non-issue if it was just yelling at each other three years ago.)  I'm making this assumption based on concerned texts from Shelley Meyer back to Courtney Smith referencing "photo evidence," which suggests something that was actually able to be photographed (and that had Shelley very concerned).  It doesn't necessarily answer the the what/where/who knew/etc. questions, but I don't think we can seriously treat this as an issue of possibly just yelling.

Without a victim who's willing to testify, criminal charges aren't going anywhere.  A trial is held, the victim doesn't show up, the accused goes home.  The victim could be charged with contempt but that wouldn't solve anything.

 

You don't excuse the victim. Even though it may be emotionally difficult, if it is important, the victim has a duty to do what is right.

 

Problem is we don't offer much in the way of witness protection.  If they do show up to testify, dude comes home soon enough and then he's all pissed off.  That being said, I do think there comes a point when the woman is willfully exchanging beatings for wealth and/or sex.  Sounds like that might be a factor in this case.  And when I represent kids stuck in the middle of that, I have little patience for it.  But then again, Cleveland only has one small shelter for battered women and their kids. 

 

This may seem like an odd time to advocate for universal basic income, but it would help solve one of the core problems that perpetuates violence against women and kids.  People need options.

^I believe the court records were sealed until last month when they became public at Courtney Smith's request.  I might have that wrong.

 

But if Urban says, "Hey, my wife is telling me about DV issues with Zach Smith, can you check the public records?" and nothing shows up and Zach Smith denies it and Courtney doesn't press charges, what is he supposed to do?  Again, that's a lot of "if's" and I'm sure they are investigating with other coaches and personnel about what was discussed.

Eventually nobody is going to be good at anything because now executives have to spend all their time making sure nobody under them does anything wrong in their personal lives.

 

A buddy of mine had a job in the military for a short time where he was in charge of 30-40 guys. Instead of accomplishing things that he wanted the unit or whatever to do, most of his time was spent dealing with which guys got DUIs over the weekend, who was caught in a ditch with their pants down, who knocked up who, people committing suicide and on and on.

The one issue I have of these matters, is that while they are bad, they almost become like a Good Samaritan clause. I believe in doing the right thing, but I do not think the law or contract should obligate this because there are often so many intangibles that are there which are not black and white.  It sounds like Meyer is going to take a fall on this but it is a shame in my opinion.

 

totally agree. however, its clear these two have been at each others throats off and on for many years in their relationship and meyer did nothing. why keep someone like that around? its playing with fire for your program and just plain dumb at best. sadly its not even just meyers fault, what about the ad? ugh what a predicament osu is in now.

The one issue I have of these matters, is that while they are bad, they almost become like a Good Samaritan clause. I believe in doing the right thing, but I do not think the law or contract should obligate this because there are often so many intangibles that are there which are not black and white.  It sounds like Meyer is going to take a fall on this but it is a shame in my opinion.

 

totally agree. however, its clear these two have been at each others throats off and on for many years in their relationship and meyer did nothing. why keep someone like that around? its playing with fire for your program and just plain dumb at best. sadly its not even just meyers fault, what about the ad? ugh what a predicament osu is in now.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is whether the family is better off having him removed from his job and blackballed from coaching over the domestic, private, matter. Divorce is difficult enough on families as is, punishing Smith, by removing him from his job harms his children even more because it takes them out of the lifestyle they were used to in forces them into a rough situation. Now, true, this happens to a lot of families of more limited means who go through divorce, but does blackballing him from a career really help things? What benefit stands to be gained from this? Don't do it again? I think either he learned that lesson by now or not. Not only will your career be ruined but so will the lives of your children? I am not sure this is best

But if Urban says, "Hey, my wife is telling me about DV issues with Zach Smith, can you check the public records?" and nothing shows up and Zach Smith denies it and Courtney doesn't press charges, what is he supposed to do?  Again, that's a lot of "if's" and I'm sure they are investigating with other coaches and personnel about what was discussed.

 

I think that is the key to this whole thing, but the thing Meyer did was lie to the public about it, so is that his fatal flaw.

 

Or will it come out as Urban and AD: "There were issues in their relationship that we were concerned about but believed to our fault were getting worked out. We should have done more but we wanted them to make their choices on their own on what to do." something like that... maybe Meyer can stay based on that, but as someone else mentioned, the backlash will be huge if he keeps his job, that is what I think will cause him to lose his job.

 

And as an Iowa fan, let me tell you, I really like Urban Meyer. I think he does so much for children and people in need, and maybe he has too big of a heart to keep giving this guy extra chances. Urban probably looked to him as a son of his own and wanted to help him through. Shoot, I know I've spent a lot of time defending some of my friends and brothers etc with my significant other, but it was never one of those things where there was physical abuse, just stupid stuff like getting too drunk and saying something that offended her. That said, I know what it's like to be caught in the middle and I'm certain for Urban it would have been extremely difficult for hiim to cut loose of Smith especially when he was defending himself. I hate that Urban's downfall may be that he had too big of a heart, but ethics are ethics and sometimes you have to make a decision to cut loose of certain people and situations and this one may be the big one that bites Urban

 

 

 

The other thing to keep in mind is whether the family is better off having him removed from his job and blackballed from coaching over the domestic, private, matter. Divorce is difficult enough on families as is, punishing Smith, by removing him from his job harms his children even more because it takes them out of the lifestyle they were used to in forces them into a rough situation. Now, true, this happens to a lot of families of more limited means who go through divorce, but does blackballing him from a career really help things? What benefit stands to be gained from this? Don't do it again? I think either he learned that lesson by now or not. Not only will your career be ruined but so will the lives of your children? I am not sure this is best

 

He's not going to stop; none of them do. They think beating is what keeps the female around not realizing it's their built-in verbal manipulation that does. All of these POSes are "smooth", which a defense mechanism one can only  develop by having major problems.

But if Urban says, "Hey, my wife is telling me about DV issues with Zach Smith, can you check the public records?" and nothing shows up and Zach Smith denies it and Courtney doesn't press charges, what is he supposed to do?  Again, that's a lot of "if's" and I'm sure they are investigating with other coaches and personnel about what was discussed.

 

I think that is the key to this whole thing, but the thing Meyer did was lie to the public about it, so is that his fatal flaw.

 

Or will it come out as Urban and AD: "There were issues in their relationship that we were concerned about but believed to our fault were getting worked out. We should have done more but we wanted them to make their choices on their own on what to do." something like that... maybe Meyer can stay based on that, but as someone else mentioned, the backlash will be huge if he keeps his job, that is what I think will cause him to lose his job.

 

And as an Iowa fan, let me tell you, I really like Urban Meyer. I think he does so much for children and people in need, and maybe he has too big of a heart to keep giving this guy extra chances. Urban probably looked to him as a son of his own and wanted to help him through. Shoot, I know I've spent a lot of time defending some of my friends and brothers etc with my significant other, but it was never one of those things where there was physical abuse, just stupid stuff like getting too drunk and saying something that offended her. That said, I know what it's like to be caught in the middle and I'm certain for Urban it would have been extremely difficult for hiim to cut loose of Smith especially when he was defending himself. I hate that Urban's downfall may be that he had too big of a heart, but ethics are ethics and sometimes you have to make a decision to cut loose of certain people and situations and this one may be the big one that bites Urban

 

 

well said and i totally agree. except for the very troublesome fact that not only did meyer lie, but the domestic issues have gone on for quite awhile. unfortunately coaches are too prone to mentorship and not prone enough of being a boss and firing people when you should if for nothing else the sake of your own program. and that goes for all the ad’s meyer has had too. was there no one capable of standing up to and advising meyer? a top level coach needs a strong ad to help keep the program as a whole in check.

"I think that is the key to this whole thing, but the thing Meyer did was lie to the public about it, so is that his fatal flaw."

 

9 times out of 10 public figures get in trouble not for the initial 'crime' but lying about it or trying to cover it up. That's what gets coaches and politicians alike.

Schools might need an on-duty P.I. at all times. Seriously.

 

 

 

The other thing to keep in mind is whether the family is better off having him removed from his job and blackballed from coaching over the domestic, private, matter. Divorce is difficult enough on families as is, punishing Smith, by removing him from his job harms his children even more because it takes them out of the lifestyle they were used to in forces them into a rough situation. Now, true, this happens to a lot of families of more limited means who go through divorce, but does blackballing him from a career really help things? What benefit stands to be gained from this? Don't do it again? I think either he learned that lesson by now or not. Not only will your career be ruined but so will the lives of your children? I am not sure this is best

 

He's not going to stop; none of them do. They think beating is what keeps the female around not realizing it's their built-in verbal manipulation that does. All of these POSes are "smooth", which a defense mechanism one can only  develop by having major problems.

 

Very true, especially since his past behavior has indicated it is not a one time incident. However, my punishment philosophy differs from the mob justice that much of society has today. You remove people who are a consistent problem and are not able to be rehabilitated and you teach those who can be rehabilitated and put measures in to prevent it from happening again. It is always easier to do train and educate than hire someone new and risk the same mistake being made over and over again.

 

In this case, given Smith's past propensity for domestic violence, he should have been removed as he was. He had enough chances to do the right thing and has shown he is not able to do the right thing. His coaching career is over.

 

As for Meyer, this is a teachable moment for him and he can be trained into how to act appropriately in the future. He should be given zero tolerance in dealing with these issues in the future and if he messes up, it would be immediate termination. The difference is that Meyer is teachable whereas Smith cannot.

I think the jury is still out on how big of a slip-up Meyer did at all here, though.  Shelley Meyer said she would talk to Urban about the incident in October of 2015.  Did she?  What happened?

 

Again, if Meyer talked to his "life coach" and had him act as a kind of proxy applying pressure not to go to the police, that would be a really big deal in my mind.  But the fact is the Courtney did not go to the police, that the only legal proceeding that actually did happen was a divorce proceeding that was commenced some time later, and most records of that were sealed until very recently.  That's why it matters greatly to me whether Meyer had some hand in the decision not to go to the police.  If he had no hand in that, then I'm not going to hold him responsible for knowing something that the victim herself decided to keep private.  But of course he can't claim the fact that there was no police report as a defense if he had something to do with the fact that no police report ever happened.

 

I agree that the head coach (and the school as a whole) should not be held responsible for every off-campus, away-from-work act of everyone on the program payroll.  I don't even think it's fair to hold them responsible for the conduct of program participants outside of official functions.  (One of the watershed events in the evolution of my thinking on political correctness and Title IX overreach was the railroading of the former OSU band director as a Title IX blood sacrifice to prove OSU's "seriousness" on these issues to the Obama administration's OCR inquisitors.  I stopped my annual giving for many years after that, though I recently resumed.)

But the fact is the Courtney did not go to the police, that the only legal proceeding that actually did happen was a divorce proceeding that was commenced some time later, and most records of that were sealed until very recently.

 

This is not true. From https://www.facebook.com/TheBrettMcMurphy/posts/2042037522486968:

 

The first time Zach Smith allegedly physically abused his wife was June 21, 2009 in Gainesville, Fla. Courtney Smith, then 24, was 8-10 weeks pregnant.

 

On June 20, 2009, Florida was coming off its second national title in three seasons under Meyer. Urban and his wife threw a party before their hard-working staff members left for summer break. After the party, Courtney said she went home, while Zach went out with some buddies. Courtney said Zach returned home drunk around 3 a.m. with a female co-worker, who Zach called “baby,” pleading with Courtney to let the woman spend the night with them, according to a Gainesville police report.

 

Courtney said the woman was Amy Nicol, who at the time was Meyer’s secretary at Florida. For the past six years Nicol has been director of internal operations for Ohio State’s football program and a member of Meyer’s staff a total of 10 seasons. According to the police report, Zach said that night Amy “was upset from breaking up with her boyfriend” and needed a place to stay.

 

Courtney refused and drove Amy home. Upon returning “a heated argument ensued in the upstairs bedroom. Courtney stated she tried to get Zach out of her bed, which he refused and then forcefully grabbed her,” according to the police report.

 

On Oct. 25, 2015, Courtney and Zach were separated. Zach came by her house, an argument ensued and then Courtney said he assaulted her.

 

“He took me and shoved me up against the wall, with his hands around my neck,” Courtney said. “Something he did very often. My (then 3-year old) daughter was clinging to my leg. It obviously registered with him what he was doing, so he took my (then 5-year old) son and left. So I called the police.”

 

Since Zach had already left, Courtney told the police not to come to the house because she had to calm her daughter down and put her to bed. The police said since Zach had left, they could come out the next day or she could come by the station the next morning. The report was officially filed on Oct. 26, 2015. Zach Smith has never been convicted of domestic violence.

 

Police records in Florida and Ohio document a history of domestic violence allegations, and a trail of physical and verbal abuse, stalking and intimidation by Zach Smith, 34.

 

So she did report the abuse to the police on at least two occasions. However:

Zach’s attorney had the Smith’s divorce documents sealed “ex parte,” without Courtney’s consent, according to an e-mail I obtained from Courtney’s attorney, shielding Zach’s alleged abuse from going public. The records were sealed Nov. 23, 2015 by Delaware County (Ohio) Common Pleas Judge Everett H. Krueger “in order to protect certain businesses and personal interests which, if published, may negatively affect (Zach Smith’s) occupation.”

 

The divorce documents were unsealed and released this morning.

I think the smoking gun here is less about the text messages to Urban's wife and more about the life coach who visited the wife and tell her not to press charges...

 

To me, it's almost believable that Urban's wife would not mention it to him.  But its not possible to believe these guys paid her a visit and Urban didn't know

 

Maybe Urban will drop dead before the hammer comes down on him sort of like Paterno did.  He does have some sort of heart condition after all right?

^ I can believe it. Remember, he is Earle's grandson, so they could have been visiting on Earle's behest

carnevalem: That's interesting.  So my question should shift then to whether Urban knew that Courtney had gone to the police.  But now I'm confusing myself on the history.  Did she go to the police, and then still "drop the case" later after Earle Bruce and that life coach talked to her?  At what point did those two people try to convince her to drop it?  (I put it in quotation marks because once you go to the police, it's no longer completely your decision to drop the matter.  One of my coworkers was just on a jury for a trial that the victim did not want to go forward.  The prosecutor brought charges anyway, and secured a conviction.)

 

I need to get my timeline straight here.  I clearly got mixed up somewhere.

I like that people are just taking Courtney's words as complete fact.  I'd like to hear from Smith and much more importantly the police.  If some of the accusations being thrown out today about Courtney are correct then it puts her word and motive very much into question. 

I do not want to hear from the police until the police have something concrete to say.  I'm a guy gossiping on the Internet in the age of Twitter.  I'm allowed to get my facts screwed up.  The police had better be sure.

 

And for that matter, I don't want to hear anything from OSU itself until it has something concrete to say, either, and I'd much rather be after the police have said something than before.  Meyer being placed on administrative leave was indeed something concrete to say, of course, but I don't want to hear more of the he-said, she-said, he-knew, she-knew until there's something solid.

 

The media has plenty to chew on in the meantime.

 

I don't even know if I'm taking Courtney's words as complete fact because I don't know specifically what the content of her words was.  We know that Smith was not charged in 2015, or other times, despite several incidents that did involve the police.  There are multiple potential explanations for that, though.

Maybe Urban Meyer, etc., didn't do anything because the woman was known to be totally nuts and typically wasn't taken seriously. 

There is an internet message board rumor going around. The gist is that Urban would be looking at 3-4 game suspension, multiple people at OSU knew and reported it to police. The police were called 66 times in 90 days and eventually stopped responding because C. Smith was a crazy drunk who called the police during fights.

 

That is the, as of now, unsubstantiated rumor going around the internet.  No one has named a source other than a "friend" close to the program.  Posting it now to see if it comes to fruition in the coming days.

I can see that as a realistic outcome no matter how unsubstantiated the rumor is.

 

I think regardless, it is pretty evident that Zach Smith is an a$$ who has issues and beat his ex wife. That being said, we know nothing about her personality and if she, as people speculate was bat sh$t crazy, and knew how to push his buttons to get him to react. In addition, while she is likely credible in this situation, was she credible all the time when dealing with the police and others.

 

 

He's not going to stop; none of them do. They think beating is what keeps the female around not realizing it's their built-in verbal manipulation that does. All of these POSes are "smooth", which a defense mechanism one can only  develop by having major problems.

 

 

I watched a few videos of this guy.  In all cases he keeps licking his lips and is absurdly confident.  So there very well might have been some drug use going on. 

 

 

 

There is an internet message board rumor going around. The gist is that Urban would be looking at 3-4 game suspension, multiple people at OSU knew and reported it to police. The police were called 66 times in 90 days and eventually stopped responding because C. Smith was a crazy drunk who called the police during fights.

 

That is the, as of now, unsubstantiated rumor going around the internet.  No one has named a source other than a "friend" close to the program.  Posting it now to see if it comes to fruition in the coming days.

 

I read the same rumor on the message board.  Said she called 911 dozens of times saying he was beating her/chasing her, and he was on campus at the time.  At the end, 911 stopped sending a car.  Powell police apparently testified on Zach's behalf at the divorce hearing.  The woman allegedly freaked out when Zach was going to lose his job because that meant her child support (means of living) was going to drop way down as she doesn't work.  All this is total rumor mill of course but if it's true at all, it would explain why none of the other coaches' wives did anything when she was texting them all...

There is an internet message board rumor going around. The gist is that Urban would be looking at 3-4 game suspension, multiple people at OSU knew and reported it to police. The police were called 66 times in 90 days and eventually stopped responding because C. Smith was a crazy drunk who called the police during fights.

 

That is the, as of now, unsubstantiated rumor going around the internet.  No one has named a source other than a "friend" close to the program.  Posting it now to see if it comes to fruition in the coming days.

 

I read the same rumor on the message board.  Said she called 911 dozens of times saying he was beating her/chasing her, and he was on campus at the time.  At the end, 911 stopped sending a car.  Powell police apparently testified on Zach's behalf at the divorce hearing.  The woman allegedly freaked out when Zach was going to lose his job because that meant her child support (means of living) was going to drop way down as she doesn't work.  All this is total rumor mill of course but if it's true at all, it would explain why none of the other coaches' wives did anything when she was texting them all...

 

Shouldn't we be able to figure out if the police did, in fact, testify on Zach's behalf in the divorce hearing? Wouldn't that be public record? I would think that would be pretty telling if it can be confirmed.

There is an internet message board rumor going around. The gist is that Urban would be looking at 3-4 game suspension, multiple people at OSU knew and reported it to police. The police were called 66 times in 90 days and eventually stopped responding because C. Smith was a crazy drunk who called the police during fights.

 

That is the, as of now, unsubstantiated rumor going around the internet.  No one has named a source other than a "friend" close to the program.  Posting it now to see if it comes to fruition in the coming days.

 

I read the same rumor on the message board.  Said she called 911 dozens of times saying he was beating her/chasing her, and he was on campus at the time.  At the end, 911 stopped sending a car.  Powell police apparently testified on Zach's behalf at the divorce hearing.  The woman allegedly freaked out when Zach was going to lose his job because that meant her child support (means of living) was going to drop way down as she doesn't work.  All this is total rumor mill of course but if it's true at all, it would explain why none of the other coaches' wives did anything when she was texting them all...

 

Shouldn't we be able to figure out if the police did, in fact, testify on Zach's behalf in the divorce hearing? Wouldn't that be public record? I would think that would be pretty telling if it can be confirmed.

 

I'm no attorney but I have been divorced.  I would guess that family court proceedings are not public record.  In fact, my time in Cuyahoga County family court, I was not even allowed in the courtroom--the attorneys went in before the magistrate while we waited outside.  I found the process very un-American.

I'm disappointed by the amount of unsubstantiated victim blaming here.

 

 

Some updates on police reports: https://www.10tv.com/article/police-records-show-3-years-domestic-dispute-reports-filed-zach-smiths-ex-wife

Powell police reports reveal Courtney Smith filed nine police reports between January 2012 and July of this year.

Zach Smith is now facing a criminal trespass charge and Courtney Smith has filed a domestic violence civil protection order against him.

A hearing on the civil protection order is scheduled for September in a Delaware County courtroom.