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JohnOSU99
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You have to be a "transfer" if you go to graduate school somewhere else? You can't just go there? Lame.

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Would love to see him reunite with Fickell at Cincy. Wishful thinking of course

Would love to see him reunite with Fickell at Cincy. Wishful thinking of course

 

Since Fickell was recruiting/coaching on the defensive side at OSU, I doubt he had much contact with Burrow.  If Burrow was going to reunite with anyone, it'd be Tom Herman, the current head coach of Texas (and OSU's former OC/QB coach who recruited Burrow).

  • 2 weeks later...

Apparently UC did have a good shot at getting Burrow - according to Cincinnati Enquirer reporter Tom Groeschen.  The beat reporter for UC football is reporting that UC was one of Burrow’s final two transfer options.  But he's also reporting that his sources told him that Burrow has picked LSU:

 

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/college-football/2018/05/93239/joe-burrow-selects-lsu-over-cincinnati-per-reports

 

https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2018/5/18/17349838/former-ohio-state-quarterback-joe-burrow-to-transfer-to-lsu-per-reports

 

http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20180518/ohio-state-football--joe-burrow-reportedly-will-transfer-to-lsu

  • 2 months later...

Would it have been better if Urban Meyer had fired wide receiver coach Zach Smith in 2015 instead of 2018?  Yes

 

Is this the end for Urban Meyer?  No

Would it have been better if Urban Meyer had fired wide receiver coach Zach Smith in 2015 instead of 2018?  Yes

 

Is this the end for Urban Meyer?  No

 

Tressel was fired for far, far less.

 

Additionally, he made a denial last week

Would it have been better if Urban Meyer had fired wide receiver coach Zach Smith in 2015 instead of 2018?  Yes

 

Is this the end for Urban Meyer?  No

 

Tressel was fired for far, far less.

 

Additionally, he made a denial last week

 

Tressel denied it (lied) to the NCAA.  Lying to the press isn't a NCAA offense as far as I know.

 

It's bad.  For any normal high-ranking official, executive, coach, he's probably gone.  But OSU fb is a borderline cult, so...

 

Also, the goalposts on "fireable" have shifted massively since 2011.

Very Stable Genius

https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/08/records_show_history_of_domest.html

 

Police reports obtained by cleveland.com detail a tumultuous three years of domestic incidents between former Ohio State receivers coach Zach Smith and his ex-wife, Courtney Smith.

 

Nine reports obtained from Powell police involving Zach Smith and/or Courtney Smith between the dates of January 1, 2012 and July 26, 2018 involve domestic disputes between the Smiths, who divorced in 2016. That includes an alleged incident of domestic abuse on Oct. 25, 2015.

 

In that report, which was previously revealed last week, Courtney Smith claimed to be the victim of sustained physical abuse at the hands of her ex-husband.

 

It's getting worse and OSU remains silent.

Very Stable Genius

In the CBS link, it says that the Courtney Smith dropped the charges she was tempted to press in October of 2015, partly at the urging of Earle Bruce (Zach's grandfather) and Hiram de Fries (obviously less of a name but apparently close to both Meyer and Smith).  But then the incidents apparently kept happening and she still never either pressed charges?  There was never an arrest, just "incidents?"  What were these "incidents" that didn't result in arrests or charges, but nevertheless happened a suspiciously large number of times?

 

There's obviously a lot here and it's probably going to get worse for OSU and Meyer regardless of the particulars of any of the questions I just asked.

 

(On a much more minor note, but still on-topic, this obviously not at all the way I wanted to see Brian Hartline get a promotion to a better job on the team--but FWIW, I think he'll do well in that role.)

Notice a non-Columbus media outlet reported it? When the Columbus reporters in the Horseshoe press box cheer as loudly as the fans after a big play, it's easier to understand (not accept) why this news wasn't reported by a Columbus media outlet.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

LOL, the minute someone flips a light switch in the Woody Hayes Athletic Center, the local TV cameras are there though.

Not quite understanding the "this is a domestic dispute" crowd, and "its not Urbans problem".  It sure as hell is. Heavy lies the crown.  When you are the highest paid government employee in your state and stuff is going on under your watch...its your problem.  And if he didnt know, he shouldve if all the text messages are true.  This isnt some shift working scrub not going to police because nobody will believe him, its Urban Meyer. 

 

Boy the football culture, SMH.  Football cannot be above all the crap that it is being held above.  That needs to change or just kill the sport.

Would it have been better if Urban Meyer had fired wide receiver coach Zach Smith in 2015 instead of 2018?  Yes

 

Is this the end for Urban Meyer?  No

 

Tressel was fired for far, far less.

 

Additionally, he made a denial last week

 

Tressel denied it (lied) to the NCAA.  Lying to the press isn't a NCAA offense as far as I know.

 

It's bad.  For any normal high-ranking official, executive, coach, he's probably gone.  But OSU fb is a borderline cult, so...

 

Also, the goalposts on "fireable" have shifted massively since 2011.

 

It would be a bad precedent to fire him over a mob mentality here. This is not anything near Penn State or Tressel. 1) the situation involved 2 consenting adults in a domestic dispute. Smith may be an ahole and deserves what he gets for being a jerk but to ask the head coach to be responsible for getting in the middle of a domestic dispute between an assistant coach and his wife was really not his business. This was between Smith and his ex-wife and the police/court system. If he was doing his job, his home life should be private. 2) There is no NCAA violations here. None of the alleged events happened on company time or on campus where OSU would have any jurisdiction to assert responsibility. Whether Meyer knew of marital issues or a dispute between Smith and his wife were not relevant as long as it remained a private affair between the married couple.

 

 

Ohio State: Urban Meyer placed on administrative leave

 

Urban Meyer has been placed on paid administrative leave as Ohio State investigates the Ohio State football coach’s response to the domestic abuse allegations regarding fired wide receivers coach Zach Smith.

 

“The university is conducting an investigation into these allegations,” said the statement from OSU released at 6:05 p.m. Wednesday.  ″(Athletic director) Gene (Smith) and I agree that being on leave during this inquiry will facilitate its completion,” Meyer said in the OSU statement.  “This allows the team to conduct training camp with minimal distraction. I eagerly look forward to the resolution of this matter.”  Offensive coordinator Ryan Day will serve as acting head coach during the investigation.

( . . . )

The ex-wife of Zach Smith said she informed Urban Meyer’s wife, Shelley, in 2015 that the former Ohio State assistant football coach had abused her and believes that the Buckeyes coach knew about it at the time.  Courtney Smith acknowledged in an interview, however, that Shelley Meyer did not say she told Urban Meyer about the abuse.

( . . . )

Urban Meyer said at the Big Ten football gathering last week in Chicago that he was aware of a 2009 incident in Florida in which Zach Smith was charged with aggravated domestic battery.  Meyer was the coach at the University of Florida at the time and Zach Smith was an intern with the program. Meyer said last week that he and Shelley worked with the couple and encouraged counseling.

 

Meyer added, however, that he had no knowledge of an October 2015 incident in which Powell police were called to Courtney Smith’s home one day after an alleged assault by Zach Smith.  No charges were filed, and two weeks later Courtney Smith filed for divorce.

( . . . )

Court documents unsealed on Wednesday after a request was filed by The Dispatch provide some details about the Smiths’ marriage and divorce.  In her affidavit filed Dec. 18, 2015, Courtney Smith alleges a tumultuous marriage in which “Zach has made threats toward me and has become physically violent.”  Courtney Smith had the file sealed “to protect certain personal interests which, if published, may negatively affect (Zach Smith’s) occupation, the parties’ financial circumstances and the children’s well-being.”

 

Courtney Smith filed a civil protection order against her ex-husband on July 20.  “The stalking and harassment never stopped,” Courtney Smith in the court documents. “He never followed the shared parenting plan and would tell me he didn’t have to because he knew I couldn’t afford to pay for an attorney.

 

Zach Smith - grandson of former OSU football coach Earle Bruce - was fired by Meyer on July 23.

 

MORE: http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20180801/ohio-state-urban-meyer-placed-on-administrative-leave

Would it have been better if Urban Meyer had fired wide receiver coach Zach Smith in 2015 instead of 2018?  Yes

 

Is this the end for Urban Meyer?  No

 

Tressel was fired for far, far less.

 

Additionally, he made a denial last week

 

Tressel denied it (lied) to the NCAA.  Lying to the press isn't a NCAA offense as far as I know.

 

It's bad.  For any normal high-ranking official, executive, coach, he's probably gone.  But OSU fb is a borderline cult, so...

 

Also, the goalposts on "fireable" have shifted massively since 2011.

 

Whether Meyer knew of marital issues or a dispute between Smith and his wife were not relevant as long as it remained a private affair between the married couple.

 

Which it didn’t, because the wife made it not private by texting the other wives about the violence.  When she hit send, it no longer was a private affair, she has pulled other people in.

 

I think your post downplays the severity of DV a bit. I’ll give benefit of doubt and suspect I didn’t understand it.  When you are the victim in this situation, it’s not just a few bruises and black eyes.  It’s a life of being controlled, intimidated and psychologically destroyed.  Assuming she isn’t making this whole thing up. Good on her for finally getting out of it and having the courage to not let it fall on def ears

Boy the football culture, SMH.  Football cannot be above all the crap that it is being held above.  That needs to change or just kill the sport.

 

"football culture" indeed.  Meyer will get a stern reprimand but not lose his job.  It would be a terrible precedent to fire a head of a program over something like this.  Any head of any team or organization.  Should my boss fire me because I hit my wife?  Maybe?  What if he heard rumors but never any facts?  Hello, wrongful termination/defamation lawsuit!  Was Meyer supposed to conduct an investigation into the guy?  Fire him on grounds of morality?  Who's to say this guy's personal life wasn't already discussed long ago behind closed doors and a group decision was made to keep him around for awhile, let him make amends.  We'll never know... 

 

 

 

 

It would be a bad precedent to fire him over a mob mentality here. This is not anything near Penn State or Tressel. 1) the situation involved 2 consenting adults in a domestic dispute. Smith may be an ahole and deserves what he gets for being a jerk but to ask the head coach to be responsible for getting in the middle of a domestic dispute between an assistant coach and his wife was really not his business. This was between Smith and his ex-wife and the police/court system. If he was doing his job, his home life should be private. 2) There is no NCAA violations here. None of the alleged events happened on company time or on campus where OSU would have any jurisdiction to assert responsibility. Whether Meyer knew of marital issues or a dispute between Smith and his wife were not relevant as long as it remained a private affair between the married couple.

 

 

I agree with this.  I also think Meyer is smart enough to realize when he was getting himself in hot water and how to stay at arms length from a shit storm he probably saw coming on this. 

This is not anything near Tressel.

 

This statement is beyond absurd.

 

 

Please read what Urban has actually been accused of (Facebook link, but it's the actual article from the journalist who uncovered the story):

So we don't actually have any proof (yet) that Urban knew of the continued pattern of abuse. We do know that he knew about their first 2009 incident (I hate calling it that), he acknowledged that. He said he and his wife got involved, recommended counseling, etc.

 

From there, we have allegations that he knew/should have known.  Undated texts to/from Urban's wife, Urban's secretary or something, etc.

 

We also know Powell police were contacted NINE times, but charges were never filed.  Allegedly, Urban's life coach (right terminology?) got involved and persuaded Courtney Smith to not press charges. So did Zach Smith's grandfather, Earl Bruce.

 

A whole system failed Courtney Smith. She apparently was persuaded by many people, including Zach's family and hers, to put his coaching career ahead of her safety and the well-being of her children.  That's just sad.

 

Whether Urban absolutely knew or just "probably" knew of the continued abuse is the main question. I guess there's a remote possibility he didn't know. He's the only one who could impact Smith's employment and his 6 figure salary, though I guess Shelley could have reported it to the university?

 

I just come away from the whole story very sad.  There were so many chances for the abuse to be stopped, but everything seemed to be working against Smith - her husband's employer, her family and his family trying to convince her to not press charges, etc

Very Stable Genius

Reading more this morning, I think he's probably done.

Ignoring the drama surrounding what will happen to Urban for a second....the most troubling part of this whole story, in my opinion, is the fact that seemingly everyone in this woman's personal life, including her own parents, told her to NOT go to the police and to NOT press charges. That infuriates me. If the screenshots of text messages and pictures sent to Shelly are real, and I have no reason to believe they aren't, I can't believe her immediate family wouldn't have at least been privy to those details, if not more. I'm struggling to find a reason why they would tell her to not press charges, and the fact that it would cause him to lose his coaching job is not a valid reason.

 

 

In a normal business this situation would have played out the same way.  You can't fire someone for allegations.  With no criminal charges there is no cause for firing him, if they did then that company is getting hit with a wrongful termination lawsuit.  OSU is very familiar with wrongful terminations as they had to pay former basketball coach Jim O'Brien a lot of money over one.  When Smith did break the law by breaking his restraining order he was rightfully fired.  In no way would the CEO of a normal business come under any heat for handling the situation that way.  This is exactly what his companies lawyers would have told him to do.  They could have put Smith on something like a paid leave of absence but in no way could they legally fire him with cause over allegations in 2015.  But because this is a big time football program Urban should lose his job over this?  Give me a break. 

^again, heavy lies the crown. You want that job, you need to own it with dignity and ethics. And I also don’t understand the comparison to some random company with a CEO. These guys were clearly friends outside of work AND there was direct communication into Meyers household on the issue.  It just sounds like a weird way to ty and make an excuse for Urb

how about the veiled threats by Zach Smith & his wife to bring the entire program down?  The reporter made mention of it twice in his interview on ESPN today, almost saying but not quite that there was something more serious that would take the program down if it were made public....

Can someone give me a solid explanation for how this is a Title IX violation? I understand that Urban is a "mandatory reporter", but my understanding is only that he must report incidents that occurred on campus or incidents that occurred to someone directly related to the school, i.e. a student or member of faculty. I don't believe this case would qualify as something that Urban is mandated to report.

So Meyer is suspended and Jim Brown is STILL being celebrated? What a world.

I think CBS had an article on the title IX details and since Meyer's wife was supposedly in violation by not reporting the abuse of Courtney Smith by OSU employee Zach Smith then that's cause for termination since Meyer's wife is already an employee of OSU.

 

I think the very best thing that could come out of this is that Meyer's wife is terminated but it seems there is evidence Meyer knew about this from the wife of the other assistant during the text saying something like "Urban says Zach is denying everything"... and "Urban doesn't know what to do." Which implies he did in fact know of the allegations in 2015 even IF his wife didn't tell him.

 

I think he's gone. Which is sad because Urban obviously didn't grasp the gravity of the situation. I am guessing he was trying to counsel the guy like he did with Aaron Hernandez and many others and maybe had his heart in the right place, I like to believe that because I believe Urban Meyer is a good guy. But, domestic abuse is too deep to counsel and let slide and give second chances and that was his mistake. Sorry OSU fans but I see no way how Urban Meyer gets past this unless they decide, come out with the truth and let the legal system work through then see if there is any deception from Courtney Smith which I more or less doubt. And even then, would OSU put him back with all the backlash that would cause?

In a normal business this situation would have played out the same way.  You can't fire someone for allegations.  With no criminal charges there is no cause for firing him, if they did then that company is getting hit with a wrongful termination lawsuit.  OSU is very familiar with wrongful terminations as they had to pay former basketball coach Jim O'Brien a lot of money over one.  When Smith did break the law by breaking his restraining order he was rightfully fired.  In no way would the CEO of a normal business come under any heat for handling the situation that way.  This is exactly what his companies lawyers would have told him to do.  They could have put Smith on something like a paid leave of absence but in no way could they legally fire him with cause over allegations in 2015.  But because this is a big time football program Urban should lose his job over this?  Give me a break. 

 

If the CEO of a company, or employees of that company, purposely obstructed justice or pressured the victim to not press charges due to the harm it would bring their employee professionally... then yes that CEO would lose their job. This sounds more like a cover up/hush up than what you are describing.

I think CBS had an article on the title IX details and since Meyer's wife was supposedly in violation by not reporting the abuse of Courtney Smith by OSU employee Zach Smith then that's cause for termination since Meyer's wife is already an employee of OSU.

 

I think the very best thing that could come out of this is that Meyer's wife is terminated but it seems there is evidence Meyer knew about this from the wife of the other assistant during the text saying something like "Urban says Zach is denying everything"... and "Urban doesn't know what to do." Which implies he did in fact know of the allegations in 2015 even IF his wife didn't tell him.

 

I think he's gone. Which is sad because Urban obviously didn't grasp the gravity of the situation. I am guessing he was trying to counsel the guy like he did with Aaron Hernandez and many others and maybe had his heart in the right place, I like to believe that because I believe Urban Meyer is a good guy. But, domestic abuse is too deep to counsel and let slide and give second chances and that was his mistake. Sorry OSU fans but I see no way how Urban Meyer gets past this unless they decide, come out with the truth and let the legal system work through then see if there is any deception from Courtney Smith which I more or less doubt. And even then, would OSU put him back with all the backlash that would cause?

 

This doesn't really answer my question though. Courtney Smith had nothing to do with the university. Title IX protects people directly involved with the university such as students. Additionally, the incidents never even took place at the university, as far as I know. From what I can tell, the Title IX argument holds very little weight.

 

In my opinion, the biggest issue for Urban could be if he directly or indirectly threatened her into shutting up.

This is not anything near Tressel.

 

This statement is beyond absurd.

 

 

Please read what Urban has actually been accused of (Facebook link, but it's the actual article from the journalist who uncovered the story):

 

 

Tressel lied to NCAA investigators.

 

Urban did nothing wrong legally or by the NCAA. Urban created a PR disaster. These are apples and oranges.  PR disasters can be managed. Look at the Joe Mixon thing, that has died down. Give him a reprimand and move forward with zero tolerance on the issue in the future.

I think CBS had an article on the title IX details and since Meyer's wife was supposedly in violation by not reporting the abuse of Courtney Smith by OSU employee Zach Smith then that's cause for termination since Meyer's wife is already an employee of OSU.

 

I think the very best thing that could come out of this is that Meyer's wife is terminated but it seems there is evidence Meyer knew about this from the wife of the other assistant during the text saying something like "Urban says Zach is denying everything"... and "Urban doesn't know what to do." Which implies he did in fact know of the allegations in 2015 even IF his wife didn't tell him.

 

I think he's gone. Which is sad because Urban obviously didn't grasp the gravity of the situation. I am guessing he was trying to counsel the guy like he did with Aaron Hernandez and many others and maybe had his heart in the right place, I like to believe that because I believe Urban Meyer is a good guy. But, domestic abuse is too deep to counsel and let slide and give second chances and that was his mistake. Sorry OSU fans but I see no way how Urban Meyer gets past this unless they decide, come out with the truth and let the legal system work through then see if there is any deception from Courtney Smith which I more or less doubt. And even then, would OSU put him back with all the backlash that would cause?

 

I really don't get how title IX would come to play here. Again, if Shelly Meyer did not report it, she can lose her job with the University but that is where the punishment would have to end. Telling Shelley is not the same as telling Urban and you can't say because they are married he has to know too. Even if you are 99% certain she would have told him, you cant make her admit otherwise because communication between spouses is privileged. There are many employment issues at play here and Title IX should not be at play since it was a dispute between a married couple outside of the scope of employment or on university property. Privacy still does have a place, doesn't it?

I think CBS had an article on the title IX details and since Meyer's wife was supposedly in violation by not reporting the abuse of Courtney Smith by OSU employee Zach Smith then that's cause for termination since Meyer's wife is already an employee of OSU.

 

I think the very best thing that could come out of this is that Meyer's wife is terminated but it seems there is evidence Meyer knew about this from the wife of the other assistant during the text saying something like "Urban says Zach is denying everything"... and "Urban doesn't know what to do." Which implies he did in fact know of the allegations in 2015 even IF his wife didn't tell him.

 

I think he's gone. Which is sad because Urban obviously didn't grasp the gravity of the situation. I am guessing he was trying to counsel the guy like he did with Aaron Hernandez and many others and maybe had his heart in the right place, I like to believe that because I believe Urban Meyer is a good guy. But, domestic abuse is too deep to counsel and let slide and give second chances and that was his mistake. Sorry OSU fans but I see no way how Urban Meyer gets past this unless they decide, come out with the truth and let the legal system work through then see if there is any deception from Courtney Smith which I more or less doubt. And even then, would OSU put him back with all the backlash that would cause?

 

This doesn't really answer my question though. Courtney Smith had nothing to do with the university. Title IX protects people directly involved with the university such as students. Additionally, the incidents never even took place at the university, as far as I know. From what I can tell, the Title IX argument holds very little weight.

 

In my opinion, the biggest issue for Urban could be if he directly or indirectly threatened her into shutting up.

 

Courtney Smith did have something to do with the university as she was legally married to an employee of the university so under title IX, when Courtney Smith let Mrs. Meyer know of the abuse, and since Mrs. Meyer is an employee of OSU, she is legally required to report the abuse at the hands of an OSU employee. That is how I read it.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2018/08/01/ohio-state-coach-urban-meyers-amended-contract-could-pose-problem/885020002/

 

I could be completely wrong on this but that's how I say it.

 

From Brutus Buckeye response:

 

Here is the thing, is Ohio State University going to believe that Shelley didn't tell Urban? And even if Urban says she didn't, is the press or anyone else going to believe that? Lastly, even IF the press believes that, what about the text messages to the other wife of a coach saying "Urban said Zach denied everything" and "Urban doesn't know what to do". I think that's proof enough for the university and the public to know Urban knew and didn't report it to the University, which under Title IX could be grounds for removal, but not certain if that was in his clause before his latest contract. Even if it wasn't in his clause, do you think OSU would retain him with the public backlash? I think the chances are like 10% Urban Meyer coaches for OSU ever again and I would be very surprised if he did get retained.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2018/08/01/ohio-state-coach-urban-meyers-amended-contract-could-pose-problem/885020002/

 

 

I think CBS had an article on the title IX details and since Meyer's wife was supposedly in violation by not reporting the abuse of Courtney Smith by OSU employee Zach Smith then that's cause for termination since Meyer's wife is already an employee of OSU.

 

I think the very best thing that could come out of this is that Meyer's wife is terminated but it seems there is evidence Meyer knew about this from the wife of the other assistant during the text saying something like "Urban says Zach is denying everything"... and "Urban doesn't know what to do." Which implies he did in fact know of the allegations in 2015 even IF his wife didn't tell him.

 

I think he's gone. Which is sad because Urban obviously didn't grasp the gravity of the situation. I am guessing he was trying to counsel the guy like he did with Aaron Hernandez and many others and maybe had his heart in the right place, I like to believe that because I believe Urban Meyer is a good guy. But, domestic abuse is too deep to counsel and let slide and give second chances and that was his mistake. Sorry OSU fans but I see no way how Urban Meyer gets past this unless they decide, come out with the truth and let the legal system work through then see if there is any deception from Courtney Smith which I more or less doubt. And even then, would OSU put him back with all the backlash that would cause?

 

This doesn't really answer my question though. Courtney Smith had nothing to do with the university. Title IX protects people directly involved with the university such as students. Additionally, the incidents never even took place at the university, as far as I know. From what I can tell, the Title IX argument holds very little weight.

 

In my opinion, the biggest issue for Urban could be if he directly or indirectly threatened her into shutting up.

 

Courtney Smith did have something to do with the university as she was legally married to an employee of the university so under title IX, when Courtney Smith let Mrs. Meyer know of the abuse, and since Mrs. Meyer is an employee of OSU, she is legally required to report the abuse at the hands of an OSU employee. That is how I read it.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2018/08/01/ohio-state-coach-urban-meyers-amended-contract-could-pose-problem/885020002/

 

I could be completely wrong on this but that's how I say it.

 

From Brutus Buckeye response:

 

Here is the thing, is Ohio State University going to believe that Shelley didn't tell Urban? And even if Urban says she didn't, is the press or anyone else going to believe that? Lastly, even IF the press believes that, what about the text messages to the other wife of a coach saying "Urban said Zach denied everything" and "Urban doesn't know what to do". I think that's proof enough for the university and the public to know Urban knew and didn't report it to the University, which under Title IX could be grounds for removal, but not certain if that was in his clause before his latest contract. Even if it wasn't in his clause, do you think OSU would retain him with the public backlash? I think the chances are like 10% Urban Meyer coaches for OSU ever again and I would be very surprised if he did get retained.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2018/08/01/ohio-state-coach-urban-meyers-amended-contract-could-pose-problem/885020002/

 

 

 

I'm really going to need some solid proof that being married to a person that works at school subjects your life to Title IX requirements. I'm not saying this isn't true, but it doesn't logically make sense to me.

^Just read the article and take what you want from it

Tressel lied to NCAA investigators.

 

Urban did nothing wrong legally or by the NCAA.

 

Tressel lied in an attempt to cover for others who were seeking pay for their uncompensated labor.

 

Urban is alleged to have:

*Lied about his knowledge of domestic violence

*Failed his Title IX duty by not reporting domestic violence

*Failed the explicit stipulation in his most recent contract to report domestic violence

*Enabled the wifebeater by having two of his closest advisers pressure Smith's wife to not report the violence (a lot we still don't know about this part of the story)

 

It's obscene to compare what they have allegedly done.

^Just read the article and take what you want from it

 

Go read about what happened at Colorado University a couple years ago. It's a very similar situation and was not deemed to be Title IX related.

Tressel lied to NCAA investigators.

 

Urban did nothing wrong legally or by the NCAA.

 

Tressel lied in an attempt to cover for others who were seeking pay for their uncompensated labor.

 

Urban is alleged to have:

*Lied about his knowledge of domestic violence

*Failed his Title IX duty by not reporting domestic violence

*Failed the explicit stipulation in his most recent contract to report domestic violence

*Enabled the wifebeater by having two of his closest advisers pressure Smith's wife to not report the violence (a lot we still don't know about this part of the story)

 

It's obscene to compare what they have allegedly done.

 

Title IX does not apply to a domestic dispute between a husband and wife. Where it becomes a university issue is when the charges get filed. There is a certain privacy that exists in the husband/wife relationship that is still recognized by courts. Taking earlier action before a police report based on a he said/she said allegation is improper and a lack of due process. We need to remember that here.

 

We don't know for a fact he lied and likely the only person who could confirm that would be Shelley Meyer. Shelley Meyer cannot be compelled to speak out against Urban, so we may never know this for a fact.

 

His most recent contract was signed a year or two ago. When the incident with Smith occurred, he was fired (complying with the contract) What happened in 2015 was under the old contract and he should not be held accountable for that standard even if he did know.

 

Did he enable the wife beater? The guy was Earle's grandson, the "advisors" were friends of the Bruce family and family friends. They were trying to resolve the issue with a family member.  Also the 2009 issue was the warning sign, people can change and grow with age and wisdom. I have no problem with 2nd chances, especially for troubled people. We all make mistakes.

As for the 2015 issue, that is a bit more troublesome should he have known but, the other difference there is that they were separated and going through a divorce. The problem was being handled by the Domestic Relations Court at that time and normally, once the marriage is dissolved, the issues go away since the parties are not around each other. In his mind, would it be reasonable to say, they got divorced so the problem has taken care of itself?

 

What sucks is that as a society, especially lately, there is this thirst for vengeance instead of justice. There is a desire not just to end the problem but to get the scalp of everyone who may have even the slightest tangential connection to the matter. That is what is wrong and needs to stop. Yes, I am sure Urban did not act perfect in this case here and hindsight is 20/20. At the end of the day, should he take the fall for his assistant coach's marital issues.

Is domestic violence covered under Title IX?  I'm not a lawyer (obviously).

Very Stable Genius

This is awkward.

 

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Very Stable Genius

I think whether a law was broken is beside the point.  This does not look good for Meyer and people are only coming to his defense because football is more important than anything else.  OSU should send him out to pasture. 

I sure wish other domestic abusers got fired immediately. If they're going to manipulate and hurt people (and people in the victim's personal networks) like that, they don't deserve a job. Hopefully being unemployed hurts their dating chances.

I think whether a law was broken is beside the point.  This does not look good for Meyer and people are only coming to his defense because football is more important than anything else.  OSU should send him out to pasture. 

 

I couldn't care less about the football side of things. I'm concerned about whether someone is about to be unnecessarily fired or not.

 

I would classify myself as a casual OSU football fan, but I'm 100% on board with firing Urban IF he deserves to be fired. I'm never on board with firing anyone simply to save face or to make a statement that domestic violence is bad. At this point in time, I don't think we can definitively say which group this falls into based on what we currently know.

 

 

Yet Penn State has done "enough" to reinstate their football program completely even though people in State College now want JoePa's legacy restored. The NCAA lost me when PSU got to keep their FCS program considering what happened over there and who knew.

 

Not excusing Urban but I just don't understand the rules these programs operate under anymore.

 

In a normal business this situation would have played out the same way.  You can't fire someone for allegations.  With no criminal charges there is no cause for firing him, if they did then that company is getting hit with a wrongful termination lawsuit.  OSU is very familiar with wrongful terminations as they had to pay former basketball coach Jim O'Brien a lot of money over one.  When Smith did break the law by breaking his restraining order he was rightfully fired.  In no way would the CEO of a normal business come under any heat for handling the situation that way.  This is exactly what his companies lawyers would have told him to do.  They could have put Smith on something like a paid leave of absence but in no way could they legally fire him with cause over allegations in 2015.  But because this is a big time football program Urban should lose his job over this?  Give me a break. 

 

If the CEO of a company, or employees of that company, purposely obstructed justice or pressured the victim to not press charges due to the harm it would bring their employee professionally... then yes that CEO would lose their job. This sounds more like a cover up/hush up than what you are describing.

Where did anyone say or prove that Urban did that?  It said that Smiths grandpa Earl Bruce and another person who is a "life coach" that is tied to the program talked to Courtney, not Urban. 

Is domestic violence covered under Title IX?  I'm not a lawyer (obviously).

 

I believe it could be covered under certain general areas, especially with the way the DOE has expanded protections in the last few years, however, I think this matter would not fall under that purview since it was between a married couple not on university property or in the scope of their jobs at the time. 

 

Also, the part added to his contract covering issues like this happened after the 2015 incident and therefore, it is difficult to hold Urban responsible for this. This arose due to the controversy with the Ray Rice and Mixon matters. Given the contract and the incident, Meyer handled things appropriately in 2018 when Smith was fired for his actions. 

 

I just have a huge issue holding someone's past deeds that were acceptable to today's standards. We need to move on. If the person does not comply with today's standards that is a different story, but past mistakes are past. We must move on. Demand better and if Urban falls short, then you fire him.

Yet Penn State has done "enough" to reinstate their football program completely even though people in State College now want JoePa's legacy restored. The NCAA lost me when PSU got to keep their FCS program considering what happened over there and who knew.

 

Not excusing Urban but I just don't understand the rules these programs operate under anymore.

 

 

Penn State got screwed by mob justice too.

Yet Penn State has done "enough" to reinstate their football program completely even though people in State College now want JoePa's legacy restored. The NCAA lost me when PSU got to keep their FCS program considering what happened over there and who knew.

 

Not excusing Urban but I just don't understand the rules these programs operate under anymore.

 

 

Penn State got screwed by mob justice too.

 

Oh please. 

Yet Penn State has done "enough" to reinstate their football program completely even though people in State College now want JoePa's legacy restored. The NCAA lost me when PSU got to keep their FCS program considering what happened over there and who knew.

 

Not excusing Urban but I just don't understand the rules these programs operate under anymore.

 

 

Penn State got screwed by mob justice too.

 

I couldn't agree less. It should have been more than the football program that went down there at the time. It still bothers me to no end that OSU got their program blown up over tattoos yet PSU basically got a harder slap on the wrist from the NCAA over a cover up of pedophilia. There should be no PSU football program today.

 

I'll stop..back to the topic at hand.

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