I think all of us has a place we call home. Considering the fact that you originally live in Cincinnati, it's still your choice where you want to live. I suggest you to be in the place where you think you are comfortable and a place you can call home.

I think a lot of what people interpret as "southern" in Cincinnati is actually German.

 

Nope! For me it's the prevalent Appalachian culture in the area and the accents. And yes, a lot of native Cincinnatians DO sound southern to my New England ears, especially the blacks (.....waiting for assertions of racism).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm black and Panamanian btw.

 

The black communities in the two cities are pretty much the same. Accent-wise and politically. It's Southern (accent) and Democrat (politics) in both. IMO, overall, blacks throughout Ohio have maintained much more of their Southern roots than those in the Northeast, or West.

 

The political voices, though, are louder in the Northern part of the state, IMO, because it is heavily Democratic.

 

Not that it seems like you will, but I wouldn't move from Cincy to Cleveland just based on the black communities. They are the same.

 

But from an overall diversity standpoint, Cleveland is a close as you will get to East Coast or Chicago in Ohio, especially the west side of the city. Just look at the demographics of the westside (Tremont, Ohio City, Cudell, Edgewater, Detroit Shoreway) census tracts. They are the most diverse in the state ... and in a lot of cases as diverse as anything on the East Coast.

 

As for the overall city, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Cleveland is the only Ohio city that has at least one census tract that is more than 50 percent latino (a handful ... all on the westside), black (several ... all but a couple on the east side) and asian (the two that make up Asiatown ... near eastside/downtown).

 

And yes, Cleveland has its advantages over Chicago and the East Coast cities in terms of cost of living.

A point of clarification: Cleveland's west side, all the way out into Rocky River, is more Midwestern culturally. The east side, all the way out to Mayfield Heights, is more East Coast culturally speaking. As an 18-year-old in the mid-80s I spent some time walking the NW-side neighborhoods of Washington DC and then returned to Cleveland, spending some time in Coventry and Shaker Square. I found the culture, pace, attitudes, and architecture with Washington DC very very similar. This area's east coast culture was confirmed to me after my sister briefly moved to Philadelphia and I spent some time visiting her.

 

I also have friends in Chicago and when they visit me, the see my area of Lakewood (Gold Coast) as a smaller version of their Gold Coast in Chicago in terms of its culture, pace, attitudes, and architecture as well.

^So you could say:

 

Cleveland: where the east meets the midwest

 

:)

Someone already did, and made a book out of it:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Cleveland-Where-Coast-Meets-Midwest/dp/0960550828

 

I have a copy around here somewhere.

I got jumped from all angles by the westsiders on this board when I made the same point.  I remember when I was living in NC and coming back to the Heights was nearly culture shock with all the black rimmed glasses, streaked hair, piercings and other little things like that you don't notice until you live somewhere else.

^Piercings, black rimmed glasses, and hair streaks equates to feeling more East Coast?

I really need to get to Cleveland again soon.

Socially, Cincy is much more southern than northern IMO.

 

I just really can't agree with that at all. Being northern is absolutely part of Cincinnati's identity. It has southern flavor (most of which is a 20th century, post-depression addition), but it's definitely not "more southern".

 

The mix of north, south, east coast, and midwest gives Cincinnati a cultural diversity it lacks in ethnic diversity.

you're right, Cincinnati is a mixture. I still remember this excellent article in the NY Times by longtime writer R.W. Apple (I don't think he's still even alive) that said the same thing--from waaayy back in 1999! (probably some of the references seem dated by now)

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/10/29/arts/on-the-road-northern-southern-sleepy-and-dynamic.html

^Piercings, black rimmed glasses, and hair streaks equates to feeling more East Coast?

 

You ever lived in the Bible Belt?  Just saying that you can get a totally different feel as far as the social atmosphere depending on where you are.  The inner ring on the east side of Cleveland is notoriously liberal, hipster, artsy, eccentric, whatever descriptor you want to use.  And yes, those traits leave me with a very east coast feel.  Same feeling I get over in Tremont.

 

Don't worry.  It's not a commentary on Cincy at all.

To be fair, there are cities in the South that are "liberal, hipster, artsy, eccentric" such as Asheville, Savannah, Atlanta, Austin, etc.  I wouldn't say the eastside of Cleveland/Metro is "East Coast" but it is a bit more "cultured" than the westside, from my trips of course.  One could say Minneapolis is "liberal, hipster, artsy, eccentric" yet I don't think anyone with a tin man brain would say it's East Coast.  I think what people may elude to "East Coast" is the large Jewish presence, which is typically found on the East Coast more so than other regions.  Though in all honesty, the eastside of Cleveland/Metro feels just as Great Lakes as the eastside of Milwaukee (visually, culturally, people-wise, liberally, architecturally, blah blah).

Though in all honesty, the eastside of Cleveland/Metro feels just as Great Lakes as the eastside of Milwaukee (visually, culturally, people-wise, liberally, architecturally, blah blah).

 

Oh you mean Muskegon, Mich?  :-P

Of course there are no magic dividing lines folks.  If something has "more of a _______ feel" that doesn't mean it is __________.  All we were discussing is the different feels of Cleveland.  I'm sure Cincy has different feels depending on where you are.  I won't speak to it like I've lived there for decades though. 

Though in all honesty, the eastside of Cleveland/Metro feels just as Great Lakes as the eastside of Milwaukee (visually, culturally, people-wise, liberally, architecturally, blah blah).

 

Oh you mean Muskegon, Mich?   :-P

 

Oh, Ken...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Side,_Milwaukee

 

Of course there are no magic dividing lines folks. If something has "more of a _______ feel" that doesn't mean it is __________. All we were discussing is the different feels of Cleveland. I'm sure Cincy has different feels depending on where you are. I won't speak to it like I've lived there for decades though.

 

I think we all know that.  I'm presuming folks are talking about "feel" and not literal interpretation.  At least I'd hope so.

A point of clarification: Cleveland's west side, all the way out into Rocky River, is more Midwestern culturally. The east side, all the way out to Mayfield Heights, is more East Coast culturally speaking. As an 18-year-old in the mid-80s I spent some time walking the NW-side neighborhoods of Washington DC and then returned to Cleveland, spending some time in Coventry and Shaker Square. I found the culture, pace, attitudes, and architecture with Washington DC very very similar. This area's east coast culture was confirmed to me after my sister briefly moved to Philadelphia and I spent some time visiting her.

 

I also have friends in Chicago and when they visit me, the see my area of Lakewood (Gold Coast) as a smaller version of their Gold Coast in Chicago in terms of its culture, pace, attitudes, and architecture as well.

 

Culturally, I won't put up an argument that the east side is more east coast. The west side may be more culturally related to the Midwest, but lets clarify, the west side resembles the progressive Midwest ... Chicago.

 

I was simply looking at it from demographic terms (although Chicago, demographically, is on par with East Coast metros). The west side of Cleveland, mainly due to the latino population, more resembles the East Coast metros than the eastside.

 

For example, census tract 1017 (Cudell) is (demographically) as close as you will get to New York City in Ohio

% White (alone) - 39

% Latino - 21.9 (15.1 percent being Puerto Rican, only .3 being Mexican ... ala East Coast)

% Black - 22.4

% Asian - 13

% Multi-race - 6.8

For example, census tract 1017 (Cudell) is (demographically) as close as you will get to New York City in Ohio

% White (alone) - 39

% Latino - 21.9 (15.1 percent being Puerto Rican, only .3 being Mexican ... ala East Coast)

% Black - 22.4

% Asian - 13

% Multi-race - 6.8

 

Interesting. Thanks!

That was another big difference with the area of the South I lived in.  Nearly every latino was mexican.  We have virtually no mexicans in Cuyahoga County.

^that's because they're in Spainsville. Oops! I mean Painesville! (or as the MSNBC anchor & reporter keep saying, "Plainesville." arrrghhh!)

 

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/immigration-raid-stirs-controversy/67n3lxq

 

Manifestacion en Painesville Ohio pro reforma (May 1st 2010).

 

FWIW-

 

I've had much fun reading about "progressives" putting people in little boxes in this thread. 

 

What does this have to do with moving to Cleveland?  I love that city, and am excited to see it getting back to gaining some of the momentum from the 1990's it has lost.

 

 

For example, census tract 1017 (Cudell) is (demographically) as close as you will get to New York City in Ohio

% White (alone) - 39

% Latino - 21.9 (15.1 percent being Puerto Rican, only .3 being Mexican ... ala East Coast)

% Black - 22.4

% Asian - 13

% Multi-race - 6.8

 

Interesting. Thanks!

 

I thought Cudell had more like a 66% white only population. I see Ohio City having the most diversity

For example, census tract 1017 (Cudell) is (demographically) as close as you will get to New York City in Ohio

% White (alone) - 39

% Latino - 21.9 (15.1 percent being Puerto Rican, only .3 being Mexican ... ala East Coast)

% Black - 22.4

% Asian - 13

% Multi-race - 6.8

 

Interesting. Thanks!

 

I thought Cudell had more like a 66% white only population. I see Ohio City having the most diversity

 

Overall, Ohio City is probably the most diverse neighborhood in Cleveland, but my numbers were from one census tract in Cudell, not the entire neighborhood.

 

Here's the link to the numbers I posted.

 

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADPTable?_bm=y&-geo_id=14000US39035101700&-qr_name=ACS_2009_5YR_G00_DP5YR5&-context=adp&-ds_name=&-tree_id=5309&-_lang=en&-redoLog=false&-format=

 

Since this is turning into a what part of Cleveland is more "East Coast," I'll try to end it by saying that there are neighborhoods on both sides of the city that have that feel. Culturally, moreso on the eastside, and demographically more on the westside. I'm biased, being from Cleveland (westside), but going back to HHS78's preferences, Cleveland, either side of the river, is a great fit.

 

HHS78, since you are from Connecticut, this may help you. A roomate from college is from Bridgeport (actually the Bronx, but moved to Bridgeport in HS). He had never been to Ohio before going to Youngstown State. He thought all of Ohio was like Youngstown (which for Ohio standards is actually quite diverse). I took him to Cleveland and he was blown away (he's Hatian, no Hatian population here), but he loved it. Said it felt like back home.  We were out of touch with each other for about six years. I got back in touch with him a couple months ago, and the first thing he said was he needs to move to Cleveland. I asked him where he was. He said Bridgeport, but he had also lived in Philly and D.C. I asked him why he wanted to come to Clevealnd. He said because it was like Connecticut but half the cost.

^that's because they're in Spainsville. Oops! I mean Painesville! (or as the MSNBC anchor & reporter keep saying, "Plainesville." arrrghhh!)

 

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/immigration-raid-stirs-controversy/67n3lxq

 

Manifestacion en Painesville Ohio pro reforma (May 1st 2010).

 

 

Or they found their way to rural NWest Ohio. Places like Leipsic. You ever heard of Leipsic? Probably not, but Mexicans have, they make up more than 25 percent of the population. That's the highest percentage, I beleive, in Ohio. Overall, the village is more than 32 percent "hispanic."

 

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ADPTable?_bm=y&-context=adp&-qr_name=ACS_2009_5YR_G00_DP5YR5&-ds_name=ACS_2009_5YR_G00_&-tree_id=5309&-redoLog=true&-_caller=geoselect&-geo_id=16000US3942602&-format=&-_lang=en

Thanks for the insightful info gbk.

 

Bridgeport-I'm very familiar with that city. It's cleaned up a lot, but back in the 90's the city was notorious for crime, corruption, and drugs. People who perceive Connecticut to be a white-bread suburban state really need to take a visit to Bridgeport, New Haven, or even Hartford.

 

I think you were the one who said not to make a move based on the black communities of a city. Honestly, that thought never even crossed my mind. I don't think along racial lines, which is what sets me apart from a lot of black people. Some of my black friends here will joke and say "HHS78 be hangin' wit da white boys" which disturbs me because it lets me know they cannot see past color. New England is so fast paced, diverse, and such a melting pot of people, that frankly people really do not give a f**k about race.

 

It's difficult for some people to figure me out because I can go play basketball in OTR and then hop in my Subaru and go kayak the Little Miami or hit a bike trail on my roadie. I'm a relatively complex person, which a huge range of interests which is what I admire about myself. :-D

 

I've actually decided against the move because the cities are not that distinctly different from each other when you get to the root of it. Whether Clevelanders like to admit it or not, Cleveland and Cincinnat share more similarities than differences. After thinking about it for a while, I realize the cities are not different enough from each other for me to make a move on a whim. I've also come to the realization that I'm a hardcore East Coaster/ New Englander and moving to Cleveland would essentially be a negotiated settlement. I'm considering moving to Philadelphia or somewhere in CT or MA to be a little closer to family and live amongst people who share similar outlooks on life as myself. I like Ohio, but I always find myself missing the pace, beaches, culture, and transit of the northest whenever I start thinking about it.

 

Just to clear things up, I'm not a malcontent who posts rants on the internet about how much I hate life. I'm more than happy living in Cincinnati and Ohio becuase of the cheap cost of living which is allowing me to rapidly accumulate monetary saving and chop away at student loans. I also love the architecture of Cincinnati, which is undoubtedly the best in the state IMO.

 

On a sidenote: Considering the amount of cities Ohio has, it perplexes me how small the hispanic population is in Ohio. It's in the bottom ten if I'm not mistaken.

As somebody who moved out of state only to move back because of family, I can't blame you for wanting to get closer to home. I was in Georgia for three years and both me and my wife loved it down there. We never thought we were going to leave, but a job opened in Northeast Ohio and I decided to take it, due to getting back closer to loved ones. Don't regret the decision at all.

 

I wish Cleveland (or Cincy or Ohio in general) would be more more than a settlement, but that is what this state is facing when it comes to immigration (both domestically and internationally) or retaining its own. That needs to change.

 

Of course jobs is the biggest thing, but ...

 

like you said, Ohio's Latino/hispanic population is embarrasing for a state this size. Cleveland (Cuyahoga and Lorain counties) has a Puerto Rican population that compares to anywhere in the country. But, for the most part, that's the extent of it, Puerto Rican or bust. Northwest Ohio, and various other cities, have decent sized Mexican populations, but other hispanic/latino populations are non-existent. It's sad that the largest minority group in the country is avoiding Ohio.

 

Same with Asians. Outside of the three biggest metros (which all have average at best Asian populations), the rest of that state is sad in that regard.

 

Maybe it's jobs that are keeping those populations down, but I don't think the state is doing enough to diversify its population.

 

Still, if you ultimately decide that Ohio is where you want to be, Cleveland is probably your best bet. I agree that Cleveland and Cincy share more with each other than not, but for somebody who is a liberal (I take you are), the two cities are very different in that regard. Like I said, the black populations are the same, but while Cleveland's whites are mostly "Blue Dog" Democrats, they are still more open to the left than the moderate and staunch Republican whites in the 'Nati.

 

But if you leave, I can't hate on Philly. I have a lot of family out there too and love it. If I wasn't from Cleveland, either Philly or Chicago would be "my favorite city."

 

P.S. Speaking of Bridgeport, maybe that's why my friend felt so at home in Cleveland. Unfortunately, we are also known for violence, drugs and corruption (sadly incompetent Democrats).

New England is so fast paced, diverse, and such a melting pot of people, that frankly people really do not give a f**k about race.

 

I think it's funny the way you talk about New England's pace. Outside of the NYC and Boston metros, New England is much sleepier than most of Ohio. Less diverse, too! VT, NH, and ME are sloooooooooow and WHITE.

 

I can see how growing up where you did, though, leaves you feeling like Cincinnati is too slow for you. It's definitely a city for people who want a slower pace of life. For some people, that's a positive; for others, a negative. People are pretty laid back.

^You're right. I guess I should have worded that better.  When I think of New England, I always think of the urban areas: most of CT, MA, and all of R.I.

 

I realize this deviates greatly from people who have never lived or visited the area (at least amongst my friends). When you say New England, a lot of people visualize a homogeneous population, cottages and fall foliage.

 

But to what you said about the pace of New England - Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine are relatively rural states so most likely the pace in the states would be a snooze. There isn't a whole lot of variation in the lifestyles of rural Americans. I remember being astonished by my trips to New Hampshire and upstate New York and seeing the amount of large pickup trucks, camo, and McCain-Palin stickers on cars. It was summertime, so visually, there wasn't much difference between those places and northern Alabama.

Rural VTers and MEers, though, are fairly liberal. NH is full of libertarian types, many of whom vote Republican. Many rural NYers are classic American rednecks. It's an interesting region in terms of politics, for sure. The rural liberals brings to mind Europe, but then the libertarians are so quintessentially American. The "mountain lesbian" phenomenon is also kind of fascinating, IMO.