KJP:  When did the last commuter train run between Cleveland and Youngstown?

Tomorrow, Jan. 14, 2007, marks 30 years since Ohio had a commuter train. The last commuter train was operated by Conrail between Youngstown and Cleveland. Conrail took over operation from the Erie-Lackawanna RR (Erie RR prior to 1960) on April 1, 1976 when Conrail was formed from the E-L, Penn Central, Reading, Lehigh Valley, Lehigh & Hudson River and Central RR of New Jersey -- all bankrupt railroads.

 

I will post more photos as I have time. But I thought I'd start by showing the stations along the route, and then add some photos, timetables and stories. Feel free to add anything you might have...

 

Here is the commuter train on March 22, 1976, backing over Interstate 490 near I-77, from Erie-Lackawanna's East 55th Yard to Cleveland Union Terminal for the afternoon departure to Youngstown and many other towns along the way:

 

 

++++++++++++++++

 

The Youngstown - Cleveland commuter train stopped at stations at all of these cities, towns and crossroads (from east to west):

 

+ Youngstown (Erie Station off Wick Avenue)(Building still stands) PHOTOS:

In the 1920s:

In 1960, as Erie RR eastbound "Morning Steel King" train paused from its daily 2.5-hour dash between Cleveland to Pittsburgh:

Last day of commuter service, Jan. 14, 1977:

In 1980s, tracks are gone but right of way not yet filled in:

 

+ Girard (south of Liberty Street)(site condition unknown)

+ Niles (Mahoning at Pratt)(foundation is still visible) PHOTO:

Seen in the 1980s shortly before demolition:

 

+ Warren (Park Ave south of South St.)(no visible remnant of station)

+ Leavittsburg (Leavitt Road)(no visible remnant of station) PHOTO:

 

+ Phalanx (Braceville-Robinson Road)(no visible remnant of station) PHOTO:

 

+ Mahoning (Parkman Road)(no visible remnant of station) PHOTOS:

 

+ Garrettsville (at SR88)(no visible remnant passenger station/freight station still stands) PHOTOS:

Freight station:

Passenger station:

 

+ Hiram-Jeddoe (at SR700)(no visible remnant of station)

+ Mantua (at SR44)(Building still stands) PHOTO:

 

+ Aurora (at SR82)(Building still stands) PHOTOS:

 

+ Geauga Lake (on Depot Road)(Building recently demolished)

+ Solon (on Bainbridge Road)(Building rebuilt with major addition after fire in 1990s) PHOTOS:

 

+ North Randall (on old Aurora Road east of Warrensville Rd)(Building still stands) PHOTO:

 

+ Lee Road (south of Miles Ave.)(Building still stands -- last time I saw) PHOTO:

 

+ East 93rd (at Richmond Ave.)(No visible remnant of building)

+ East 55th (at Track Ave.)(No visible remnant of building) PHOTO:

 

+ Cleveland Union Terminal (now Tower City Center) PHOTO:

 

NOTE: prior to 1946, Erie RR trains, including the commuter train, served downtown Cleveland at Erie RR station in the Flats. The brick depot, between the Waterfront Line and the Detroit-Superior bridge, was demolished in the early 2000s. Its trainshed was demolished long ago. PHOTOS:

 

Recent photo:

1928 photo (train shed is visible):

The state could have taken over the operation of this train at 100% federal funding for the first year, but it was committed to roads and was not interested. The high speed zealots out there at the time (Wilkowski & Co.) were not interested either, as the train did not fit their idea of high speed rail.

 

Thus, the train came off, Cleveland Union Terminal was abandoned and the railroad itself ripped up east of Mantua, a monumental loss and is unlikely to ever again be a passenger route. This stands as one of the most sordid chapters in Ohio's transportation history. Talk about myopia!!! :cry:

 

Agree totally.  The death date of the Erie/CR commuter overlapped the creation of RTA by 2 years -- and what a golden opportunity for the new agency to acquire and run this service around the era of the dreaded Energy Crisis and mega gas lines.  But, I know, a) RTA was/is a county system and, b) totally focused, initially, on lowering fares to lure back customers, and not expansion, esp rail extension.  But as we came to realize, RTA then, as it has been throughout most of its existence, incompetently run (remember the infamous Shaker Rapid crash + the Runaway Rapid along w/ UMTA's assessment that the Rapid was the most incompetently and dangoursly run rail system in the nation?) with very little vision toward the future.  I remember as a kid riding those old yellow Shaker cars into Terminal Tower during the evening rush to meet my dad and, from time to time, noticing the those old dogeared commuter trains chugging along toward Youngstown ... Damn shame such an opportunity was wasted.  And w/ JoeC running things, don't look for commuter rail to come back soon -- never mind commuter rail is sprouting in other smaller metro areas than ours -- unless we can keep the momentum for the Lorain line going and JoeC is overwhelmed by the grass roots support for it...

That train would have made a fine start for a Cleveland-Youngstown-Pittsburgh service if it had been extended. The Ohio Association of Railroad Passengers proposed exactly that, using not only the E-L train but a Pittsburgh and Lake Erie RR commuter train that ran from College, PA (near Beaver Falls) to Pittsburgh. By pooling equipment, it would have been possible to run a thru round trip in addition to the commuter runs. Alas, no one cared other than a few of us. :cry:

 

This was the rear of the Erie Station on Commerce Street at Wick Avenue in Downtown Youngstown. The back entrance to McKelvey’s department store is on the left. I remember the late 1970’s yellow and brown engine and the former McKelvey’s department store all though it was Higbee’s back then.

 

Unfortunately, I remember the 1980’s better. In a matter of a few years it was all gone.

I wonder if this is the alignment from Chagrin Falls to Solon that was supposed to become a rail trail?  Cle Metroparks had secured the alignment, but they gave up plans for a trail because some landowners did not want cyclists near their homes. :?

I wonder if this is the alignment from Chagrin Falls to Solon that was supposed to become a rail trail?  Cle Metroparks had secured the alignment, but they gave up plans for a trail because some landowners did not want cyclists near their homes. :?

 

The line into Chagrin Falls was the former Wheeling & Lake Erie, later Norfolk & Western. It was abandoned in the mid-1980s or so and never had a commuter rail service on it. This line crossed the Erie Lackawanna (which did have commuter rail service until 1977) next to Bainbridge Road, just west of Solon Road, near the old (but since expanded) depot.

the alignment from Chagrin Falls to Solon ...

 

The line into Chagrin Falls was the former Wheeling & Lake Erie, later Norfolk & Western. It was abandoned in the mid-1980s or so and never had a commuter rail service on it. This line crossed the Erie Lackawanna (which did have commuter rail service until 1977) next to Bainbridge Road, just west of Solon Road, near the old (but since expanded) depot.

thanks.  And thanks MrNYC for the intermodal answer

i know kjp has talked about it in the past, but i saw this website today by a former ohio resident/transit guy - Dr. Jon Bell, Presbyterian College, Clinton SC. all about the cleveland-youngstown commuter rail:

 

 

Cleveland, Ohio:

 

Erie Lackawanna Commuter Rail

 

Description

 

On 6 January 1970, the Erie Lackawanna Railway discontinued its last long-distance passenger trains, leaving only its commuter services in northern New Jersey which are now operated by New Jersey Transit, and a single weekday round trip between Youngstown and Cleveland, Ohio. The EL tried to discontinue this train, too, but was denied permission by the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, based on protests by passengers. (When I was in high school in Warren, I had an acquaintance whose father used that train to commute to work in Cleveland, and was active in campaigns to keep it running.)

 

Most passengers lived in Cleveland's eastern suburbs, out to Aurora, about a third of the total route mileage. Nevertheless, the train had to run to Youngstown so that the locomotive could be turned around, despite the fact that only a handful of passengers actually rode that far.

When Conrail took over the bankrupt EL in 1976, it closed the EL offices in Cleveland, near Union Terminal. Ridership dropped sharply. It seems that most of the passengers had been EL workers using their complementary railroad passes! The train was reduced from three coaches to one, and when Conrail proposed abandoning it, there was now little or no opposition. The last run was on 14 January 1977.

 

Picture

 

 

Train 28, en route from Cleveland to Youngstown, comes to a stop at the Garrettsville-Hiram station late on a Friday afternoon in May 1973. Although the station sign proclaimed, "Home of Hiram College", the station in Garrettsville was actually over three miles from Hiram. On this day, I walked from Hiram (where I was going to college), and rode the train home to Warren for the weekend.

 

CLEVELAND - WARREN - YOUNGSTOWN

28 Miles from Cleveland

 

EASTERN STANDARD TIME

29 Daily

Ex Sat., Sun & Hol.

Daily

Ex Sat., Sun & Hol.

 

PM    Cleveland, Ohio  AM

 

5:20 0.0 Lv. Union Terminal Public Square Ar. 7:40

5:29 2.9 " E. 55th St. & McBride Ave. Lv. 7:32

5:40 8.3 " Lee Rd., Shaker Heights Station " 7:21

5:45 10.3 " North Randall " 7:16

5:52 15.5 " Solon " 7:10

5:59 20.0 " Geauga Lake " 7:02

6:06 23.3 " Aurora " 6:56

6:24 29.7 " Mantua " 6:45

6:17 33.9 " Jeddoe " 6:38

6:30 36.4 " Garrettsville-Hiram " 6:31

6:51 52.3 " Warren " 6:12

6:59 57.4 " Niles " 6:02

7:10 66.2 Ar. Youngstown Lv. 5:50

 

 

link:

http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/Cleveland/EL/

 

 

 

i know kjp has talked about it in the past, but i saw this website today by a former ohio resident/transit guy - Dr. Jon Bell, Presbyterian College, Clinton SC. all about the cleveland-youngstown commuter rail:

 

 

Cleveland, Ohio:

 

Erie Lackawanna Commuter Rail

 

Description

 

On 6 January 1970, the Erie Lackawanna Railway discontinued its last long-distance passenger trains, leaving only its commuter services in northern New Jersey which are now operated by New Jersey Transit, and a single weekday round trip between Youngstown and Cleveland, Ohio. The EL tried to discontinue this train, too, but was denied permission by the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, based on protests by passengers. (When I was in high school in Warren, I had an acquaintance whose father used that train to commute to work in Cleveland, and was active in campaigns to keep it running.)

 

Most passengers lived in Cleveland's eastern suburbs, out to Aurora, about a third of the total route mileage. Nevertheless, the train had to run to Youngstown so that the locomotive could be turned around, despite the fact that only a handful of passengers actually rode that far.

When Conrail took over the bankrupt EL in 1976, it closed the EL offices in Cleveland, near Union Terminal. Ridership dropped sharply. It seems that most of the passengers had been EL workers using their complementary railroad passes! The train was reduced from three coaches to one, and when Conrail proposed abandoning it, there was now little or no opposition. The last run was on 14 January 1977.

 

Picture

 

 

Train 28, en route from Cleveland to Youngstown, comes to a stop at the Garrettsville-Hiram station late on a Friday afternoon in May 1973. Although the station sign proclaimed, "Home of Hiram College", the station in Garrettsville was actually over three miles from Hiram. On this day, I walked from Hiram (where I was going to college), and rode the train home to Warren for the weekend.

 

CLEVELAND - WARREN - YOUNGSTOWN

28 Miles from Cleveland

 

EASTERN STANDARD TIME

29 Daily

Ex Sat., Sun & Hol.

Daily

Ex Sat., Sun & Hol.

 

PM   Cleveland, Ohio   AM

 

5:20 0.0 Lv. Union Terminal Public Square Ar. 7:40

5:29 2.9 " E. 55th St. & McBride Ave. Lv. 7:32

5:40 8.3 " Lee Rd., Shaker Heights Station " 7:21

5:45 10.3 " North Randall " 7:16

5:52 15.5 " Solon " 7:10

5:59 20.0 " Geauga Lake " 7:02

6:06 23.3 " Aurora " 6:56

6:24 29.7 " Mantua " 6:45

6:17 33.9 " Jeddoe " 6:38

6:30 36.4 " Garrettsville-Hiram " 6:31

6:51 52.3 " Warren " 6:12

6:59 57.4 " Niles " 6:02

7:10 66.2 Ar. Youngstown Lv. 5:50

 

 

link:

http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/Cleveland/EL/

 

 

 

 

Long delay on this response, but that link is awesome.  My Grandfather used to take the train from Solon to Downtown Cleveland for work everyday.

I look at this itinerary and it makes me sick to think this was actually an option. Now, there is little choice except being forced to drive.

It's rather shocking that we let the Erie commuter rail line die at the height of the Energy Crisis of the mid-70s, just when urban America began turning back to mass rail transit (and right around the time Cleveland's RTA was formed from the old CTS+Shaker Rapid+smaller bus companies.

I look at this itinerary and it makes me sick to think this was actually an option. Now, there is little choice except being forced to drive.

 

You should see what existed before that.... between this line (Erie RR), the Pennsylvania RR and the B&O RR, there were 16 trains in each direction each day between Cleveland and Pittsburgh in 1950.

 

Here are graphic presentations I developed of the rail passenger services Ohio had in the lifetime of my two oldest brothers (they were born in 1949 and 1951)....

 

 

 

 

How's that grab ya??

I realize these posts are from three years ago, but there are a few inaccuracies of the type that occur when people speculate about lost information.  The pictures are certainly very welcome.  I am going to comment from the top down.  First of all, air travel killed the Pullman cars, then the freeways killed the coach trains, and when the Fed stopped using RPO's, the mail revenue finished off the passenger trains.  Penn Central resorted to Philadelphia lawyer tricks like not listing the sleepers on the timetable, and then using that as an excuse not to sell tickets on them.  Then the ICC would let them abandon the sleeper service.  This gave some of the last PC trains a kind of ghost-train feeling - it was there, but not all there. 

 

Somewhere along the line, Cleveland became a suburb of Detroit, adapting a motorhead and MoTown culture that was not original in the city.  CKLW and Mayor Ralph Locher's infamous "Beatle Ban of 1965" didn't do much to help!  And as has been mentioned below, Ohio concentrated on roads, and for all extents and purposes seemed to hate trains.  Of course, Ohio had a lot of tracks compared to many other areas.  Very few young people that I knew in the 60's or 70's had the slightest idea of what railroads did around Cleveland.  They didn't use the rapid transit - it was "stupid" not to be cool and drive everywhere.  Even my own parents and relatives had told me that "the trains used to come into the terminal tower, but they stopped running years ago" - this in 1966!

 

The Erie, and later Erie-Lackawanna line from Cleveland to Youngstown was double-tracked at one time, and operated under CTC (Centralized Traffic Control), with signals in both directions.  East of Silica Sand Road in Garrettsville, the track (speed) limit was 83 mph.  I doubt that the 4-car train shown by the pond was going 70 mph in 1972.  I rode the train from '71 to '74 occasionally, and the Diesel, an EMD E-8, was limited to 48 mph at that time.  It would go into auto stop if it exceeded that for more than a short time.  The side panels had rusted out, and had been replaced with plywood insets - that's why there are no porthole windows in the engine. 

 

Regarding stations:  After leaving the C.U.T. eastbound, Erie trains ran reversed on the No. 1 (WB) track, which was protected by signals, until they switched to the left onto new right of way built when the Erie came in.  This followed the rapid transit r.o.w., which climbed up, and then flew over the C.U.T. and Nickel Plate (later N&W) tracks.  The Van Sweringens built 4 girder bridges for their traction empire during the period around WWI - but only the northernmost 2 were used.  There were supposed to be two express tracks inside (in the middle), and two local tracks outside.  The Erie connection used the southernmost of these 4 bridges.  The rapid transit tracks then followed the NKP on the south side of the r.o.w., while the Erie continued on SE and connected with the main coming up from Riverbed St., and the west end of the Lorain - Central (Carnegie) Viaduct - where it separated from the "Big 4" (CCC&St.L), which is now called the Clark Ave. extension - what's left of it.  Erie crossed the river, and the B&O line, and climbed the hill, crossing Broadway.  The C.U.T. connection was about a number 20 switch, allowing about 40-45 mph through it.  East of 34th St. there was a spur that ran to a ramp, where the rapid transit cars had been unloaded off of flatcars when they were delivered.  The ends of the rails were sharpened to slanted points - an unusual sight. 

 

Going east, there would have been a proposed joint Erie/Pennsylvania RR coach yard, had the Pennsy come into the terminal project.  Then was the roundhouse, just west of the E. 55th and McBride station.  After the station, around 89th St., the line crossed the Pennsy, with a connection branching south, to the right, to connect with the PRR, which had trackage rights down the Erie to Bessemer Ave., and the steel mill facilities.  The trains always stopped, and were manually waved through by PRR or PC tower operators. 

 

The Erie line curved to the right, or south, as the Cleveland Short Line tunneled underneath this area, and the very deep cut and tunnels could be seen if one was seated on the north-east side of the car.  Then it turned east again.  The 93rd St. station was abandoned after the Lee-Miles "Shaker Heights Suburban Station" was opened, around the time of dieselization.  The trains always blocked traffic at Lee Rd. when they stopped there. 

 

Next was North Randall, home of the Randall Park horse racing track, and later, the Randall Park mall.  At one time there was a large ground storage area where the railroad piled up coal in the winter time, and moved it down to the docks when Lake Erie thawed out, and the lake boats started running again.  After this was Solon, where the Wheeling and Lake Erie branch to Chagrin Falls crossed.  I don't recall the E-L having a signal protecting the crossing, but the W&LE (N&W by then) had a searchlight signal showing lunar white at the crossing for their traffic. 

 

Aurora was next, and after that was a long siding, and the Carlon plant, that generated some traffic. After this was Mantua, home of the Potato Festival.  There was a feed mill there, and in the old days, they used to kick (get it rolling with the engine, then brake quickly and uncouple) the freight cars up the trestle, with the conductor riding the brake, to stop it at the right place.  The loco was too heavy for the trestle, so they kicked the car(s) up. 

 

Next came Jeddoe, at the Route 700 crossing - there's a bike trail there now, going east.  This was a whistle stop, and there were cars waiting there for the train in the dark morning hours.  It was actually closer to Hiram.  Between Mantua and Jeddoe was a very long passing siding, with spring switches at each end, so the trains could just run through them.  Going into the siding, the train ran straight through, and coming out, it veered left - both ends stepped over the same way, for maximum speed.  Back down along the track a ways, to the left side if going toward Mantua, there is a small waterfall, just off the r.o.w. on private farm land.  Hiram students sometimes picnicked there in days gone by, but some south side Clevelanders bought the farm, and got pretty unpleasant about anyone going to see the waterfall by the mid 70's.  There was a double reverse curve where the line crossed the Eastern Continental Divide, where the water either goes north to Lake Erie, or south to the Ohio River, and in steam days they ran through this at 50 mph.  Once, a colored (sic) Pullman porter had asked if he might ride in the engine just one time, which was allowed,and when he saw the view out from the cab, going through those curves where he couldn't even see the track ahead, rollicking along at 50 per, he swore he'd never ask for a ride again! 

 

The curve through the Garrettsville station had a high super-elevation to it, and the steps were quite slanted towards the ground when it stopped there.  After the 6:23 P.M. stop, a through freight would usually run through with three EMD SD-45's on the head end - it was stirring to see them haul the tonnage through there at nearly 50 mph.  Some evenings a way freight would come through with an Alco RS-2, which also sometimes pulled No. 27 and 28 when the E-8 was in the shop.  I once was fortunate enough to see the E-8 and a business car fly through there on a Sunday evening, heading for Cleveland - a rare sight!  There was also a siding in G-ville, for passenger cars, for football specials, probably, and some fairly extensive freight tracks.  (New Concord, Ohio, home of Muskingum College, also had a passenger siding on the B&O line to Columbus, likely for the same reason.)

 

Coming into Garrettsville, just before the bridge over Rt. 82, there was a house, and all four sides of the house could be seen as the train came through the curves west of the highway overpass.  That bridge is now gone, but the house is probably still there.  There was a bridge that crossed Highway 82 as the tracks headed east out of G-ville, but that has been removed.

 

Mahoning and Phalanx were unnoticeable by then, but Phalanx at one time had a curving turnaround track that connected with the Akron main, so freights could run from Cleveland back to Akron, Marion, and west.  Also at one time, the New York Central line from Dillonvale, across from Wheeling, W Va. came up from Warren and crossed the Akron-Greensburg-Meadville line, and curved to the west, joining the Mahoning Division with trackage rights to Cleveland.  At Leavittsburg, a set of high-speed double-slip switches diverted traffic either to the cut-off to Meadville (night passenger trains used this route), or through the "back door" to Youngstown, and the whole Pittsburgh, Washington or Philadelphia route, via the P&LE past Youngstown, and the B&O past  Pittsburgh.  Warren had a nice station, and contrary to some comments, there were several people who boarded there in the early 70's.  Finally, the trains ran past the Brier Hill yards and shops (the Pennsy line ran further behind it, but parallel - the was the Pittsburgh, Youngstown and Ashtabula, later considered for a high-speed test track that never materialized) and then to the Youngstown station, referred to as Phelps Street.  That is where that picture was taken - I remember the parking garage seen in the background. 

 

 

In 1964, the Cleveland Press ran a special train on the Erie-Lackawanna to the last weekend of the New York World's Fair, and it departed at about 11:00 P.M. from track 13.  I remember that it had a blue and silver Nickel Plate Road sleeper on the back end.  It ran into Hoboken, not Jersey City.

 

Just some things about the Cleveland Union Terminal, that were mentioned by some.  The "Steam Concourse" started with tracks 11 and 12 under Prospect Ave.  The ceiling was very low there.  The NYC Mercury used to depart for Detroit from track 11.  Where the ceiling opened up under the skylight, were tracks 13 and 14.  No. 27 and 28 arrived and departed from track 14.  Tracks 14 and 15 had a crossover switch to the sleeper car lead that connected directly to tracks 11-13.  This way, any train could be pulled from or to the coach yard, and from or to any of the tracks 11-15 from the track closest to the rapid transit tracks, in just one back and forth movement.

 

The next three sets, 15-16, 17-18 and 19-20, were under the main concourse.  It seems likely that the Nickel Plate mostly used Track 15.  Tracks 21-22 were really under Huron Road, as the steps went down under the mural, and then turned left or right.  The New York Central installed an escalator from tracks 17-18, if I remember it right.  There were scissor crossovers between tracks 12-13, 16-17, and 20-21, for switching diners in the middle of trains.  They were by the stairs at track level.  Track 23 was the running track, and also had a platform between it and track 22.  There was a blackboard type sign that said "Pullman Line:  Line 1  Line 2"  where the sleepers were lined up for their respective trains, in the correct order.  The rapid transit tracks have been moved over, but one of the support posts still says "15" on it to indicate where track 15 was.  There was a stub track that was crossed by a double slip going to track 16, with an immense concrete bumper at the end, a small building, and an oil tank, probably for filling the oil-fired steam heaters on the electric "depot motors" as they were called.  This could hold both the east throat motors.  Another motor was at the east end of the coach yard.  The west throat was the same, except there were two stub tracks under the Post Office, with one motor on each one, although they were long enough for some mail cars or sleepers, too.  There was another depot motor at the west end of the coach yard.  There were then 9 coach yard tracks, two of which were still under Huron Road, and the rest were outside.  There was an automatic car washer on about coach yard track 5, and there were platforms between each track, but they were narrower than the station platforms.  Also at the extreme west end were two more stub tracks that led into a wheel lathe house, and a brake shop.  There were also shops and repair facilities inside a HUGE room behind the mural, that had its own metal stairway so the station master could get to track level quickly.

 

The Cuyahoga Viaduct had two rapid transit tracks going west, on the northern side, towards the lake, and three "Steam Tracks" to the south.  The first two were the mains, and the southernmost one was spaced a little further over, and was the coach yard lead, although it could also serve as a third main for departures and arrivals.  The viaduct was easily strong enough to handle three full trains of heavyweight cars, as well as any type of locomotive the Central ever ran, including Hudsons (4-6-4) and Niagaras (4-8-4).  The Nickel Plate also ran freight trains over it in the early 50's when their steel trestle was under repair.  The American Freedom Train ran over it in May of '68, pulled by a Berkshire (2-8-4).

 

At one time the E-L dropped the coaches and ran the engine back out to 55th street, but later, they pulled forward, and then backed the train over a different track to go back to 55th street.  Why this was done is a mystery, but I saw it pulling out of the west end, and then backing up, when it was down to three, or two cars.

 

So much bridge removal and earthmoving has been done on the east approach that it is unlikely trains could return.  Probably paving would have to be jackhammered out, and the roadbed lowered to get trains back in under the silly yuppie restaurant they installed.  But the viaduct could easily handle modern trains, which are much lighter.  Except the R/T has mucked up the r.o.w. with rush hour storage tracks.  There is much to be said about the R/T track arrangement in the Ontario Street subway, but that belongs on another thread.

 

It sure was a beautiful and functional station until it was modernized, but it had become dingy and dangerous by the 80's, and PC police were unfriendly on top of it all!

 

 

^ Thanks for posting all that. Very interesting. I wonder if trains had the luxury of the promotional/marketing efforts/monies that is spent on auto, trucking, flight....how popular train travel would become in Ohio even in this day and age of anti-rail attitudes that has been fostered for many years... Hmmm......

 

The Erie, and later Erie-Lackawanna line from Cleveland to Youngstown was double-tracked at one time, and operated under CTC (Centralized Traffic Control), with signals in both directions. East of Silica Sand Road in Garrettsville, the track (speed) limit was 83 mph. I doubt that the 4-car train shown by the pond was going 70 mph in 1972. I rode the train from '71 to '74 occasionally, and the Diesel, an EMD E-8, was limited to 48 mph at that time.

 

 

The E-L's Second Sub had a permissive block system, not CTC. And after the 1950s, trains could not exceed 79 mph without the presence of an automatic train stop system tied into the signal system. The speeds I cited were from the E-L employees' timetable.....

 

 

 

SPEED RESTRICTIONS

Miles Per hour

 

Passenger trains on eastward and westward unrestricted track between:

M.P. 105.40 Buchanan and M.P. 134.80 Transfer; M.P. 164.50 Leavittsburg and M.P. 188.39 just east of A Yard Kent; M.P. 11.40 North Randall and M.P. 29.79 west of Mantua; M.P. 41.00 Mahoning and M.P. 58.15 west of Niles: 70

All trains including passenger and express, when using freight engines: 50

Freight trains: 50

Between M.P. 68.01 Valley Street and M.P. 66.63 North Avenue, Youngstown, eastward and westward track: 30

Curve 77, between M.P. 65.74 and M.P. 66.08 eastward track: 55

Westward track: 45

Curve 76, between M.P. 65.44 and M.P. 65.72 eastward and westward track: 50

Warren Gauntlet, between M.P. 53.67 and M.P. 53.12 eastward and westward track: 20

SN Junction, First Sub-Division to Second Sub-Division: 30

Curves 43, 44 and 45, between Garrettsville-Hiram Station and M.P. 38.66, eastward and westward track: 45

Curves 36, 37, 38, 39 and 40, between M.P. 33.86 and M.P. 35.27 at Jeddoe, eastward and westward track: 45

Westward empty freight trains, North Randall to Literary Street: 25

Westward loaded freight trains, North Randall to Literary Street: 20

Curves 15 and 16, between M.P. 5.50 and M.P. 5.25, westward track: 45

Passenger trains on westward unrestricted track, M.P. 6.25 to Literary Street: 50

All trains on eastward track Literary Street to M.P. 6.25: 40

All trains over connection track between Mahoning Avenue Junction and Coach Yard Lead Junction switch, NKP viaduct, Cleveland: 15

Between Literary Street and DK Tower: 15

 

I hope this helps.

Boy. these vibrating smileys sure drive me nuts!

 

To KJP - All that info I mentioned regarding operation was either from direct observation, or from talking with the engineer when I rode in the cab in February of '73.  I don't recall us departing from 48 mph too much, except for the Mahoning River bridge, where we had to wait for a flare to burn out before we could move!  The line had what looked like permissive block signals at that time, and I hadn't ridden the double-track since 1958, when we were not going fast - I don't remember much of that except from a couple of pictures I have.  I know we toured the Brier (sic) Hill shops.  All that detail from the employee's timetable is interesting though - much more than I knew.  I only write this stuff so I can share it before I too forget!  Part of the cultural narrative.  Towards abandonement in 1981, the signals had been turned sideways, and I assumed that if it was run at all, it was "dark", and under train order rules.  Later on another return trip, I was astonished to see the tracks gone, and that I had crossed the ridge on Route 700 without even realizing that I had missed the former crossing.  I stopped in a hurry and went back to look, and that's when I found the trail to G-ville, heading east only.

 

Most of my facts are from wandering around with a camera, and talking with people - I never had access to official documents, much.

 

To Etheostoma Caeruleum, I used to wonder that, too, until one of the older guys at a National Model Railroad Convention told me that the railroads did advertise all these things right after WWII, and it didn't help.  I have read somewhere, pretty obviously, that the Federal government paid the railroads back after their war effort by building the freeways and transferring as much freight as possible to trucks.  It's conceivable that there was some defense policy at work in this, since the Interstate system is officially titled, "The National Defense Highway System", and somebody high up was probably thinking about what aerial bambardament did to the rail lines in Europe.  There is a book by Helen Leavitt titled, Superhighway - Superhoax that is a good one to read, although it has never been a bestseller!

 

I have a Wabash timetable from around 1950, and it has a slogan about how only railroads are unsubsidized, and trains earn their share.  But passengers remembered surly conductors and steam loco cinders and smoke, and associated the trains with war memories, probably.  Blacks tended to continue riding the trains longer, due to economics, and the service lasted longer in the south and west, of course.  Somewhere along the line I learned how to deal with train crews and rarely had any trouble after that.  Booking a sleeper and buying drinks in the lounge car seems to help!

Someone asked on another thread if the Cleveland - Youngstown Erie-Lackawanna could ever be re-established. Funny thing is I was having a similar discussion with some short-line railroad execs recently. This is what I wrote in the other thread....

 

If the Erie-Lackawanna Mahoning Division First Subdivision is ever reactivated between the Solon Nestle plant east to the Mahoning Valley, it will likely be in stages. The last through train was in 1980 -- a daily mixed freight from North Randall to Brier Hill and then on to Conway Yard. Locals ran out to the Carlon Cement Plant at Chamberlain Road in Mantua Township until 1993. Now the line is out of service east of the Nestle plant at Harper Road in Solon. Large sections of track were removed in 1982 -- the section from Mantua Township to Girard. The Second Subdivision remains intact but mostly unused through Leavittsburg-SN and North Warren, plus a section operated by GW as an industrial in Niles. Not only was Mantua Township to Leavittsburg section removed, but the property was sold, and all bridges were since taken out.

 

As for a possible reactivation, fortunately the Ohio Central acquired the Erie right of way from Leavittsburg east to Brier Hill for future restoration. One exception is the driveway for a small office building off Pine Avenue in Warren. Also, two structures were built on the right of way in Garrettsville (a light industry and an IGA grocery store) plus a bike path. But the bike path could be a Godsend in terms of preservation. Surprisingly much of this line is still intact after 30 years of disuse.

 

What could lead to its re-use? If you look at satellite maps, there are a large number of sand quarries along this line. In fact, Portage County produces the most sand in Northern Ohio (thanks to glacial deposits), and most of those quarries are next to the rail line. One new sand quarry was just opened at the east end of Aurora by demolishing a new development of mcmansions. All these new natural gas wells in the Marcellus basin (second-largest gas field in the world!) below NY, PA, WV and parts of eastern Ohio need large amounts of sand for fracking (drilling) the shale. That would seem a decent customer base for partial restoration of this line.

 

Through service might be warranted by the new industrial expansion in the Mahoning Valley linked by shortline railroad to steel makers and scrap metal dealers in Cleveland, including the construction of new plants or expansion of old ones for V&M Star Steel, Patriot Special Metals, Niles Expanded Metals, Reinforcement Systems, Wheatland Tube, Sharon Steel, TMK-IPSCO, Youngstown Tube and a few others. They all process scrap metal in electric-arc furnaces to make steel. The Class-1s aren't interested in freight shipments over short distances such as between Cleveland and Youngstown -- including to Mittal Steel's Warren Coke Plant, one of the few still left in the region. This line might be the best way for re-linking Cleveland and Youngstown again (so might reactivating the NS/GW Freedrom Secondary (E-L Second District -- the Chicago-Hoboken mainline) north of the Ravenna Arsenal, then to the W&LE at Kent for Cleveland. Yet that still ignores the sand quarries. But, like I said, this may occur in stages, if it occurs at all. One can only hope...

I split this thread from the Cleveland Union Terminal thread.

Interesting that the tracks are still in the ground at Aurora. Based on some streetview images, it looks like the crossings were just recently removed.

Interesting that the tracks are still in the ground at Aurora. Based on some streetview images, it looks like the crossings were just recently removed.

 

Some were also just paved over.

Can long-abandoned railroad lines be reactivated? You betcha! Here's the "Lackawanna Cutoff" which was abandoned by Conrail in the early 1980s. This was the same time as the Cleveland-Youngstown Erie-Lackawanna line was abandoned by Conrail east of Aurora. But while this line hosted Ohio's last commuter train, if it is ever reactivated, it may be for freight service....

 

So this service didn't use those double-decker commuter coaches they had up on Chicago commuter runs during the 1960s & 1970s? 

Here's some pics from my collection of the Erie-Lackawanna (Conrail, after April 1, 1976) commuter train:

 

Leaving Cleveland Union Terminal in 1974....

 

 

Picking up speed between the N&W and CTS Rapid tracks in May 1971....

 

 

Prior to the afternoon run to Youngstown, the commuter backs up to CUT over I-490 from Von Wiler Yard at East 55th on March 22, 1976....

 

 

Accelerating toward the Aetna Road crossing in Cleveland's North Broadway neighborhood in 1976....

 

 

Pausing at the Lee Road station (also called the Lee-Heights Station, which was opened in 1948) in 1974. This station is still partially standing....

 

 

The commuter train's ridership was mostly between Cleveland and Aurora. It enters more rural areas east of Aurora, such as this sand quarry pond near the intersections of Mennonite and Infirmary roads in Mantua Township. The train is slowing for the curve and station at Mantua on May 12, 1972....

 

 

The commuter train waits between runs at Von Wiler Yard at East 55th. This is under Conrail ownership in November 1976. The train has only two months left to live....

 

 

After the commuter train stopped running, its equipment went to other uses or simply faded away and significant portions of the rail corridor was ripped out in 1982....

^KJP---nice little photo essay. Very sad that it is no longer running.

More photos.....

 

This is the cover of The Diamond, the Erie-Lackawanna Historical Society's quarterly magazine featuring the Youngstown-Cleveland commuter train on the cover. Here it is waiting for the "highball" at Solon's station on Jan. 29, 1959, to head west to downtown Cleveland. No doubt its commuters are appreciating the availability of the train service on this typically snowy Northeast Ohio morning....

 

 

 

Ten years earlier, one of the Erie RR's "Steel King" express trains from Pittsburgh pauses at the Lee Road-Heights station which was brand-new in 1949. Back then, there were 14 Erie RR passenger trains a day between Cleveland and Youngstown (plus another six between the Pennsylvania RR via Ravenna and Baltimore & Ohio via Akron). The popularity of this passenger rail service prompted the Cleveland Transit System to plan for a rapid transit rail line between this station and downtown Cleveland to increase commuting capacity and development of the surrounding areas....

 

 

 

The locomotive's engineer is pouring it on to accelerate up the steep 1.5%-grade climb the hill from downtown Cleveland to North Randall. This view is along Miles Road in the city's outskirts east of the Lee Road station in 1948. Soon this express train will be cruising at 75 mph through North Randall, Solon, Aurora, Mantua, Garrettsville, Warren, Niles and Youngstown before operation of this train is handed over to the Pittsburgh & Lake Erie RR for the rest of the trip into Pittsburgh....

 

 

 

In 1948, one year before Erie moved its downtown Cleveland passenger terminus to Union Terminal (today's Tower City Center), the trains were still calling at the 19th-century depot below the east end of the Detroit-Superior Viaduct. To reach this station required stepping over two mammoth drawbridges including this one next the Carter Road lift bridge, next to where the Cleveland Rowing Society is based today....

 

 

 

Sometimes Erie's passenger trains to Cleveland ran with P&LE equipment (P&LE was owned by New York Central RR), as seen here in 1957 at the busy SN Junction at Leavittsburg, just west of Warren. This is where the 40+ trains per day of the Erie RR's Second Subdivision west to Kent and Chicago split from 25+ trains per day of the First Subdivision to Cleveland. Eastward, the Erie ran to the docks of Jersey City, NJ, which were busy in the days before the government-funded St. Lawrence Seaway and Interstate 80. Today, no trains run through this location although two sets of rusty weed-choked rails remain....

 

 

 

An Erie RR passenger train speeds below the new Warrensville Center Road overpass at North Randall in 1959. One set of tracks are still here today, but are for low-speed industrial switching operations by Cleveland Commercial RR on a time-battered single track covered with weeds...

 

 

 

The last passenger train service on the Erie RR (Erie-Lackawanna from 1960-1976, and Conrail after April 1, 1976) was a weekdays-only commuter train service between downtown Youngstown and downtown Cleveland. On Aug. 30, 1976, with less than five months to go before its end of service, the morning commuter train passes Von Willer Yard at East 55th Street and is about to cross the bridge over the incomplete I-490 before traveling next to RTA tracks into downtown Cleveland. It must be a warm morning because the engineer has the locomotive's front door open for better ventilation....

 

Thanks to BuckeyeB for finding this priceless, wonderful, memories-inducing video (er, film) of the E-L commuter train. Sadly, none of the railroad tracks into Cleveland Union Terminal remain, nor do the tracks east of Aurora to Youngstown. And much of the route east of Solon to Aurora has been inactive since 1993 and is unusable.....

 

Since the film is silent, allow me to suggest some appropriate music to remember this era, and this train by. Click on the video and then click on each of the three songs below after they finish....

 

 

First song......

 

 

 

Al Stewart Time Passages

^

My jaw dropped when I first saw this. I felt like Indiana Jones unearthing the Lost Ark of the Covenenant!!! BTW, after Conrail was formed, the state had a chance to preserve the line at 100% federal funding for the first year and 90% for the second. Ohio was focused on roads and declined. There was a rail movement in the legislature, but the leaders there wanted bullet trains on all-new right of way. And so the train died, as did the the railroad itself and CUT. What a loss. The train could have formed the basis for new Cleveland-Pittsburgh train service, as there was also a Pittsburgh & Lake Erie train between College PA and Pittsburgh. So sad.

It was nice to receive a link to this from the ELHS mail list.  I rode this train in 64-65 for a Safety Patrol year end outing to an Indians game.  I am currently working on my model railroad loosely based upon this line.  The one question I have not seen addressed is where they turned the power/train at each end?

The one question I have not seen addressed is where they turned the power/train at each end?

 

At Cleveland, they backed the train in/out of the station all the way out to Von Willer Yard/East 55th (3 miles) and turned the locomotive on the turntable. I'm not sure about Youngstown though. There was a wye just east of the station. But considering how far the train was backed up at Cleveland, it would not be a stretch if they backed it to Brier Hill Yard where there also was a turntable. And Brier Hill was also three miles from the Erie Station downtown.

 

BTW, I posted the video link to the ELHS list. Glad you received it. :)