And those who know the history of urban policies by the State of Ohio over the past 50 years or so know that a neighborhood often has to die (or at least go on life support) before it can be revitalized. Only then can you tap funding resources to start over. In Ohio, no property can compete with a large/clean/green/lien-free piece of land at the urban fringe -- unless it is in the urban core. So in Ohio, a neighborhood has to die, have its obsolete/decayed structures be demolished, the vacated lands cleaned by nature or man, all the liens removed, the multitude of small properties assembled into much-larger properties until they are ready to compete with developable properties that exist at urban fringe.

 

Some neighborhoods can be saved before they fail, or at least their decline slowed way down by keeping the housing stock and commercial districts fresh and physically competitive. But until we stop dragging the urban fringe farther and farther out from the geographic center of metro areas that haven't grown in population in 50 years, we're just forcing the chairs to move around on the deck of a motionless ship.

 

I definitely agree with your "die before it can be saved" observation, though I don't think that's unique to Ohio.  We've certainly seen it throughout the years in Greater Cleveland. 

 

I don't think it's a function of policy as much as it is migration patterns, though.  The most irresponsible residential population is also the most mobile, and once neighborhoods start to decline, longer term residents move out and they move in.  This accelerates the decline.  Once it's bad enough, they move on and restoration can begin.

 

"we are talking about real people here. Real people live in these neighborhoods.

 

We're also talking about real financing would be needed for any large scale redevelopment, and real people willing to be 'pioneers'. Until we see that, all this discussion is speculation aaaand not the topic of this thread :-)

I still think its patently absurd to essentially say we should abandon the east side for another decade, as if that'll solve the problem magically. Those who know the real history of the city of Cleveland know that abandonment of the east side is one of the reasons the East Side is in the shape that it's in now. I'd agree that there are some East Side areas that are in worse shape than others (Glenville, Kinsman, Central, etc.) and as a result, will take longer to fix. But then there are other neighborhoods on the East Side (South Collinwood, half of Hough, Saint Clair-Superior) that really only need a clear plan and a concentrated effort to redevelop. And there are other neighborhoods (like Euclid Park and East Blvd) that are beaming with potential and can be points of real strength. So not only is the idea to essentially let the East Side rot insulting, but in certain cases, it's unnecessary. I think we cannot forget that we are talking about real people here. Real people live in these neighborhoods. Someone mentioned about how some in Cleveland are suspicious of gentrification, but this is why. People know when you don't give a damn about them, and they respond in kind. And from a couple of the commenters here, it sure seemed like that's the attitude. This is why native Clevelanders don't trust redevelopment supporters like us.

This is the only way it can work, though "soon" may be a stretch.  One more factor, you have to have the political will to protect and police your oasis aggresively, at times stretching the law vis a vis "loitering" and the like. 

 

Also, to resist any of the lingering resentment towards "gentrification".  With the exception of Little Italy and possibly Shaker Square and Asiatown, your options over on the east side are "gentrified" and "blighted".

 

Unless the new and old property owners agree to assess a fee on themselves for localized security, cops walking the beat, trash pickup/beautification, etc. as has been done in Ohio City, Gordon Square, Kamms Corners, UC, Shaker Square and other non-downtown neighborhoods. Each oasis can be managed hyper-locally or if there is enough of a critical mass, then the CDC could oversee it.

 

Those who know the real history of the city of Cleveland know that abandonment of the east side is one of the reasons the East Side is in the shape that it's in now.

 

And those who know the history of urban policies by the State of Ohio over the past 50 years or so know that a neighborhood often has to die (or at least go on life support) before it can be revitalized. Only then can you tap funding resources to start over. In Ohio, no property can compete with a large/clean/green/lien-free piece of land at the urban fringe -- unless it is in the urban core. So in Ohio, a neighborhood has to die, have its obsolete/decayed structures be demolished, the vacated lands cleaned by nature or man, all the liens removed, the multitude of small properties assembled into much-larger properties until they are ready to compete with developable properties that exist at urban fringe.

 

Some neighborhoods can be saved before they fail, or at least their decline slowed way down by keeping the housing stock and commercial districts fresh and physically competitive. But until we stop dragging the urban fringe farther and farther out from the geographic center of metro areas that haven't grown in population in 50 years, we're just forcing the chairs to move around on the deck of a motionless ship.

 

I don't disagree with anything you said. In fact, something you touched on is part of my point. The east side, by and large, IS on life support already. That process you talked about has already taken place in most of the east side. Collinwood is really one of the only somewhat stable neighborhoods on the east side (not counting University Circle). Now is the time to REBUILD, not to be content with continued decline in perpetuity.

 

As a resident of Cleveland who chose to live in Cleveland I'm going to say, yes the city has problems but some of what you say is......

 

 

 

 

I still think its patently absurd to essentially say we should abandon the east side for another decade, as if that'll solve the problem magically. Those who know the real history of the city of Cleveland know that abandonment of the east side is one of the reasons the East Side is in the shape that it's in now. I'd agree that there are some East Side areas that are in worse shape than others (Glenville, Kinsman, Central, etc.) and as a result, will take longer to fix. But then there are other neighborhoods on the East Side (South Collinwood, half of Hough, Saint Clair-Superior) that really only need a clear plan and a concentrated effort to redevelop. And there are other neighborhoods (like Euclid Park and East Blvd) that are beaming with potential and can be points of real strength. So not only is the idea to essentially let the East Side rot insulting, but in certain cases, it's unnecessary. I think we cannot forget that we are talking about real people here. Real people live in these neighborhoods. Someone mentioned about how some in Cleveland are suspicious of gentrification, but this is why. People know when you don't give a damn about them, and they respond in kind. And from a couple of the commenters here, it sure seemed like that's the attitude. This is why native Clevelanders don't trust redevelopment supporters like us.

This is the only way it can work, though "soon" may be a stretch.  One more factor, you have to have the political will to protect and police your oasis aggresively, at times stretching the law vis a vis "loitering" and the like. 

 

Also, to resist any of the lingering resentment towards "gentrification".  With the exception of Little Italy and possibly Shaker Square and Asiatown, your options over on the east side are "gentrified" and "blighted".

 

Unless the new and old property owners agree to assess a fee on themselves for localized security, cops walking the beat, trash pickup/beautification, etc. as has been done in Ohio City, Gordon Square, Kamms Corners, UC, Shaker Square and other non-downtown neighborhoods. Each oasis can be managed hyper-locally or if there is enough of a critical mass, then the CDC could oversee it.

 

Those who know the real history of the city of Cleveland know that abandonment of the east side is one of the reasons the East Side is in the shape that it's in now.

 

And those who know the history of urban policies by the State of Ohio over the past 50 years or so know that a neighborhood often has to die (or at least go on life support) before it can be revitalized. Only then can you tap funding resources to start over. In Ohio, no property can compete with a large/clean/green/lien-free piece of land at the urban fringe -- unless it is in the urban core. So in Ohio, a neighborhood has to die, have its obsolete/decayed structures be demolished, the vacated lands cleaned by nature or man, all the liens removed, the multitude of small properties assembled into much-larger properties until they are ready to compete with developable properties that exist at urban fringe.

 

Some neighborhoods can be saved before they fail, or at least their decline slowed way down by keeping the housing stock and commercial districts fresh and physically competitive. But until we stop dragging the urban fringe farther and farther out from the geographic center of metro areas that haven't grown in population in 50 years, we're just forcing the chairs to move around on the deck of a motionless ship.

 

I don't disagree with anything you said. In fact, something you touched on is part of my point. The east side, by and large, IS on life support already. That process you talked about has already taken place in most of the east side. Collinwood is really one of the only somewhat stable neighborhoods on the east side (not counting University Circle). Now is the time to REBUILD, not to be content with continued decline in perpetuity.

 

As a resident of Cleveland who chose to live in Cleveland I'm going to say, yes the city has problems but some of what you say is......

 

 

 

I'm not particularly sure who you're addressing with this "witty" comment (since I, KJP and E-Rocc was quoted here) but if this is addressed to me, that's cute. Doesn't contribute a damn thing to the conversation, but that's cute. I'm also a resident of the city of Cleveland, BY CHOICE

 

Anyway, most of the east side HAS decayed already. You've seen the census numbers, right? There's Collinwood, University Circle, Little Italy, Shaker Square and....then what?? Tell me what other legitimately stable or even moderately stable neighborhoods there are on the east side?

The point is that it's insulting (and unnecessary) to essentially say "to hell with the east side".

The City of Cleveland has some great maps in Community Development & Building Departments that show the city laid out in shaded colors, with shading based on vacant/foreclosed homes, housing stock inventory, population density, etc.  In every case, the difference between the east side & west side is very dramatic.  It's not like the west side is Beverly Hills, but it's on much more stable ground, in terms of retaining & attracting working class families than the east side is.  Exceptions of course being the often mentioned Shaker Square, University Circle, etc

^^Did anyone really say anything that approximates that?  I'd guess that the east side has seen just as much public investment and attention as the west side in recent decades.  The difference in condition people observe probably has a lot more to do with the cumulative impact of thousands of individual household and homeowner decisions over the years and more recently, the profit maximizing investment decisions of a small number of developers.  Not to mention, the west side as a whole is itself in pretty steep decline.  Seems much more useful to talk about individual neighborhoods than east vs. west.

Alright folks, this topic is for Eastside development projects, not for general discussion of neighborhood quality, migration patterns or public spending. 

 

Back on topic!

"we are talking about real people here. Real people live in these neighborhoods.

 

We're also talking about real financing would be needed for any large scale redevelopment, and real people willing to be 'pioneers'. Until we see that, all this discussion is speculation aaaand not the topic of this thread :-)

 

Exactly.  What I'm really not seeing is the people that are going to be willing to pay "market rates" to live in an area dominated by public housing.  Not when Shaker Square, Tremont, Little Italy, and any of the oases that may spring up as per Ken's plan exist. ....and that's only the alternatives in the city itself.  It's "public housing" in the form of Section 8 that's chasing people out of the inner ring burbs.

 

It kind of is topical, though.  Thinking too big, or taking on the "they need the help more" approach that the (arguably strawman) do gooders take in "Atlas Shrugged" can divert resources away from the oases of development, and discredit the entire process when they fail.

 

Events that bring people out routinely like this one can transform neighborhoods.  This year I see people starting their day at the West Side Market for local foods and continuing their local buying at the Cleveland Flea.  Lots happening recently in St. Clair Superior / AsiaTown!

 

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/theclevelandflea012413.aspx?utm_source=VerticalResponse&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=from+hillbilly+to+highbrow%2c+the+cleveland+flea+aims+to+launch+a+new+saturday+tradition&utm_content=%7bEmail_Address%7d&utm_campaign=Primed+for+Growth%2c+Built+to+Last

Collinwood & Nottingham Villages Development Corp. bought these parcels last fall for a total of $195,000 and seeks to demolish the structures on them for an apparent expansion of Cleveland Range Inc., located on the north side of St. Clair Avenue between East 179th Street and Amsterdam Road. For more about the proposed expansion of Cleveland Range (namely its headquarters building, including 100 new jobs in a neighborhood that really needs them!), see the article from last fall at.....

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/09/cleveland_range_will_add_jobs.html

 

The CPC docket is at:

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/02012013/index.php

 

NORTHEAST DESIGN REVIEW

 

NE2013-001 – Manitowoc (fka Cleveland Range) - Demolitions

Project Locations: 17900 St. Clair, 17908 St. Clair, 18301 St. Clair, 18429 St. Clair, 18525 St. Clair

Project Representative: Charles Slife, City of Cleveland

 

 

This is one of the properties (in red) but it shows Cleveland Range's manufacturing plant on the north side of St. Clair.....

 

It's great to see the expansion of Cleveland Range in the neighborhood.  I know someone who runs a part-time  shop on E. 185th and recently was hired at Cleveland Range.  With the neighborhood commercial districts close by, it's great to see more jobs which benefit the area (North and South Collinwood).

This building at 6218 St Clair is being renovated right now. I drive by every day. This is a really unique building. Cleveland doesn't have many like it. As soon as I figure out how to post pics, ill put one up

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/08022013/index.php

 

NORTHEAST DESIGN REVIEW

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for August 2, 2013

 

2. NE2009-030 – Muntaser Retail Shopping Plaza New Construction

Project Address: 8701 Superior Avenue

Project Representative: John Rakauskis, Rakauskis Architecture

 

 

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2013/08/hey_taxpayer_with_mark_naymik_1.html#incart_river

 

"Cleveland's Union-Miles neighborhood -- already one the city's most blighted areas -- has another housing problem.

 

This one starts and ends with the Union-Miles Development Corporation, a nonprofit  that receives tax dollars supposedly to help save the East Side neighborhood once rich with homes and residents.

 

But the organization has become an absentee landlord whose properties are contributing to the very problem it claims to be fighting."

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/08022013/index.php

 

NORTHEAST DESIGN REVIEW

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for August 2, 2013

 

2. NE2009-030 Muntaser Retail Shopping Plaza New Construction

Project Address: 8701 Superior Avenue

Project Representative: John Rakauskis, Rakauskis Architecture

 

These types of developments are destructive to their surroundings and should not be permitted in the city, as they reduce the functionality and marketability of urban neighborhoods.  Instead, units should front the sidwalk with no lawn buffer and parking should go in the rear.  And single-story single-use structures should not be placed on major streets. 

^Ideally, this is true.  But that model is not working for people looking to establish sucessful businesses in that neighborhood.

Neither is this model.  This model is actively destructive and needs to be stopped.  In other neighborhoods, citizens band together to petition the city when this sort of junk is proposed.  Here, sadly, not so much.  But the need is just the same.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/naymik/index.ssf/2013/08/hey_taxpayer_with_mark_naymik_1.html#incart_river

 

"Cleveland's Union-Miles neighborhood -- already one the city's most blighted areas -- has another housing problem.

 

This one starts and ends with the Union-Miles Development Corporation, a nonprofit  that receives tax dollars supposedly to help save the East Side neighborhood once rich with homes and residents.

 

But the organization has become an absentee landlord whose properties are contributing to the very problem it claims to be fighting."

 

Similar problem, cheaply built and unmarketable housing types that don't belong in the areas where they're placed.  Suburban planning for the inner city is an automatic fail.  Even if these properties were well-managed this plan could never work, because it's structurally and functionally wrong.

[instead, units should front the sidwalk with no lawn buffer and parking should go in the rear.  And single-story single-use structures should not be placed on major streets. 

 

Hidden parking lots create opportunities for crime, especially in a neighborhood like this one. It would make more sense to completely dispense with the city zoning code's parking requirements and allow developers to rely on street parking alone.

[instead, units should front the sidwalk with no lawn buffer and parking should go in the rear.  And single-story single-use structures should not be placed on major streets. 

 

Hidden parking lots create opportunities for crime, especially in a neighborhood like this one. It would make more sense to completely dispense with the city zoning code's parking requirements and allow developers to rely on street parking alone.

 

True on the hidden lots.  But if there is only street parking, where do people park when it snows?

Three things. One, having parking lots in the back of a pretty unsafe neighborhood is WILDLY unworkable and impractical. If you do that, you are asking for it and there will be blood on your hands. Second, this neighborhood and others like it don't get any investment AT ALL. I am not going to begrudge someone willing to invest in a downtrodden neighborhood because he's not building "Uptown". If others want to, that's your prerogative, but I personally would love to hear the explanation one would give to a single mother with 3 kids who needs a job and why she shouldn't get it because the design of the building that holds said job does not fit "our" development standards. Third, one of the things that most of us don't like about suburban development is that it's too vanilla, too cookie cutter. But if one is advocating for every single neighborhood to look the same and be built the same, regardless of the demographics or economic realities of that particular neighborhood, aren't you then becoming what you despise? That's just being cookie cutter on the opposite side

Three things. One, having parking lots in the back of a pretty unsafe neighborhood is WILDLY unworkable and impractical. If you do that, you are asking for it and there will be blood on your hands. Second, this neighborhood and others like it don't get any investment AT ALL. I am not going to begrudge someone willing to invest in a downtrodden neighborhood because he's not building "Uptown". If others want to, that's your prerogative, but I personally would love to hear the explanation one would give to a single mother with 3 kids who needs a job and why she shouldn't get it because the design of the building that holds said job does not fit "our" development standards. Third, one of the things that most of us don't like about suburban development is that it's too vanilla, too cookie cutter. But if one is advocating for every single neighborhood to look the same and be built the same, regardless of the demographics or economic realities of that particular neighborhood, aren't you then becoming what you despise? That's just being cookie cutter on the opposite side

 

I have a saying I use a lot in business "Everything sounds easy to those who don't have to actually do it."

 

A corrolary might be that some designs sound great to those who don't have to live with them.

An existing but vacant industrial building on the SW corner of Ivanhoe and Mandalay in Collinwood that's been slated for demolition for 10 years is proposed for renovation by the Frato brothers into a recycling center. To be recycled is debris from the demolition of thousands of Cleveland houses and other structures. A rezoning measure was passed by City Council's Planning Committee this morning. A variance still needs to be approved by the Board of Zoning Appeals.

Thats kinda funny in a bad way. New business and jobs coming to the city, reusing a building and preventing it from demolition, only because other buildings in the city are being torn down. Growing off of its own decay. Straight up self cannibalization!

The snake eating its tail came to my mind as they were discussing this. Yet council members were lauding the jobs and the reactivation of a long-abandoned industrial structure.

Well, the alternative is likely dumping all the debris in a landfill, since the city and county are pursuing an aggressive demolition strategy and those houses are coming down anyway.  We might as well make lemonade from our lemons in a refurbished industrial building in a depressed neighborhood.

We hadn't visited the mural at Kinsman Road and East 116th Street for a while, but this week we got to that intersection and found the mural's references to the Jewish community of Mt. Pleasant, which was a good share of the neighborhood from the early 1920s into the 1960s, are gone! It looks like a sizable piece of the mural - at the top left - is gone; I'm wondering if that is where the Jewish references were. Did that piece of the mural get damaged and will it be replaced?  Were the large X-shaped stripes specifically to obliterate the Jewish references? Were the Jewish references painted over?  Is the entire mural repainted, with a different design? 

What is the story? We are not happy to find any references to the multi-decade Kinsman Jewish community now missing.  Please explain what happened?  Thanks!

FWIW, Fire Station #26 is at 7818 Kinsman, so this is either across the street (which doesn't make sense because it's also an even numbered address) or it's going to be squeezed in between the fire station and East 79th.....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2013/crr09-09-2013.pdf

 

Board of Zoning Appeals

601 Lakeside Avenue, Room 519

9:30 Ward 5

 

Calendar No. 13-186: 7830 Kinsman Road Phyllis Cleveland

 

Cuyahoga Metropolitan Housing Authority, owner, appeals to erect a four-story apartment building with 60 dwelling units on an acreage parcel located in a C1 Multi-Family District; contrary to Section 353.01, proposing a building height of 46 feet 6 inches where 35 feet is permitted; and a maximum building coverage of 54,489 square feet, contrary to Section 355.04 that allows 32,474 square feet according to the Cleveland Codified Ordinances. (Filed 7-30-13)

 

We hadn't' visited the mural at Kinsman Road and East 116th Street for a while, but this week we got to that intersection and found the mural's references to the Jewish community of Mt. Pleasant, which was a good share of the neighborhood from the early 1920s into the 1960s, are gone! It looks like a sizable piece of the mural - at the top left - is gone; I'm wondering if that is where the Jewish references were. Did that piece of the mural get damaged and will it be replaced?  Were the large X-shaped stripes specifically to obliterate the Jewish references? Were the Jewish references painted over?  Is the entire mural repainted, with a different design? 

What is the story? We are not happy to find any references to the multi-decade Kinsman Jewish community now missing.  Please explain what happened?  Thanks!

 

Contact this site http://www.clevelandjewishhistory.net/ and/or the Maltz Museum  http://www.maltzmuseum.org/.

 

They will either know what happened or be equally, and more loudly, unhappy.

My monthly refrain that St. Clair Superior should get its own thread or get merged with the Asiatown thread ... Lots of great stuff going on over there! :)

 

indie foundry set to open creative clubhouse in slovenian mansion in st. clair superior

Lee Chilcote, Fresh Water Cleveland

THURSDAY, AUGUST 22, 2013

 

The founder of the successful Cleveland Flea will soon move her growing business, The Indie Foundry, into a historic mansion on St. Clair Avenue. The location will function as a co-working and classroom space aimed at helping small creative businesses to grow and flourish. It joins a growing list of new startups on that street.

 

"This is the business development side of a business incubator, a place where you meet other creatives," says Stephanie Sheldon. "You’re making things in the kitchen, crafting things or making stuff in the woodshop -- but when it’s time to work on your business, where do you do that? 'Hey, have you found great insurance agent? Who do you use for bookkeeping? How do you deal with a growing company?' These are the kinds of questions that the Indie Foundry is dedicated to" ...

 

... More available at http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/indiefoundry082213.aspx

E Rocc: That first website is great; I don't believe I have seen it before and will now be using it.  I think connecting this situation with the Federation and the CJN are probably the best bets for getting information and/or something being done about it - one way or another.  Thanks.  Of course, I was hoping someone HERE might know something....

FWIW, Fire Station #26 is at 7818 Kinsman, so this is either across the street (which doesn't make sense because it's also an even numbered address) or it's going to be squeezed in between the fire station and East 79th.....

 

 

It's going to surround it.  Saw the renderings last year.  More design work by City Architecture...

 

It's going to surround it.  Saw the renderings last year.  More design work by City Architecture...

 

Interesting. Thanks!

E Rocc: That first website is great; I don't believe I have seen it before and will now be using it.  I think connecting this situation with the Federation and the CJN are probably the best bets for getting information and/or something being done about it - one way or another.  Thanks.  Of course, I was hoping someone HERE might know something....

 

You're welcome, and they should know about it anyway, if they don't.  If some "community activist" simply decided that something else would be "more relevant to the current community" or some such thing, that's historical vandalism.

....but on the Bing photo (maps.live.com), though difficult to see, it looks like the mural was a regular rectangle - straight across the top.

St. Clair Superior is really making headways in revitalizing the St. Clair neighborhood!  I'm loving their energy and creativity with programs like Urban Upcycle, Retail Ready, The Cleveland Flea (now attracting 5,000 people each month to St. Clair) Urban Grazing, new public art, loft homes, etc.  They are really pushing to make this area the next to "pop" in cleveland.  I'm going to echo 8shades and again say this neighborhood needs it's own thread.  I'm thinking a St. Clair Superior/AsiaTown thread.  Just sayin... :-)

 

Anyway here's an in-depth look at their efforts by Steven Litt from today's PD:

 

St. Clair Avenue is poised for revival as Cleveland's next example of "creative placemaking"

 

Michael Fleming, director of the St. Clair Superior Development Corp., is leading a new vision for the neighborhood.

Lisa DeJong, The Plain Dealer

Print Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

Follow on Twitter

on October 01, 2013 at 8:40 AM, updated October 01, 2013 at 8:45 AM

 

To the casual eye, the battered commercial strip along St. Clair Avenue east of East 55th Street in Cleveland would look bleak, unwelcoming and rundown.

 

Michael Fleming, director of the St. Clair Superior Community Development Corp. sees something else: a street of hidden treasures and rich potential.

 

Since taking his post in 2010, he’s devised a turnaround plan that could make St. Clair the city’s next hot neighborhood, based on its location just off I-90, its record as a busy local commuter route and its deep history as a stronghold of the city’s Slovenian immigrant community.

 

The hook is to build on existing businesses and augment the neighborhood’s identity by turning into a regional center for upcycling - the art and craft of repurposing throwaway items and discarded construction materials to make something new, useful and beautiful.

 

The movement is growing in Cleveland, and Fleming wants to make St. Clair its regional headquarters.

 

“We’re pretty stoked,” Fleming said in one of several interviews about the neighborhood over the summer. “We’re calling this Upcycle St. Clair.”

 

Fleming’s vision has attracted a prestigious $375,000 grant from ArtPlace, a private-sector spinoff of the National Endowment for the Arts. Other grants came from Charter One Bank and Cuyahoga Arts and Culture, the county’s public arts fund.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index.ssf/2013/10/st_clair_avenue_is_poised_for.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

On the downside......

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/pdf/NE_Review_Agenda_10-1-13.pdf

 

Northeast Design Review District

Agenda

(8:00a.m., Tuesday, October 1st, 2013)

Memorial-Nottingham Branch, 17109 Lake Shore Boulevard

 

1. NE 2013-026 – 7904 St. Clair Ave Demolition ©

Location: 7904 St. Clair Avenue, Ward 8

St. Clair Design Review District

Demolition of a 3200 sq ft, 3-story brick building.

Project Representative: Bishop Leanza Ford, True Faith Apostolic Bibleway Church

 

That's definitely a negative development.  I can say that the feeling of the CDC and the design review board was not at all supportive of demo, and they are trying to work with the owner to find alternatives.  That said the building has been vacant for over 30 years and is in pretty sad shape inside.  Stay tuned...

That's definitely a negative development.  I can say that the feeling of the CDC and the design review board was not at all supportive of demo, and they are trying to work with the owner to find alternatives.  That said the building has been vacant for over 30 years and is in pretty sad shape inside.  Stay tuned...

 

For over 30 YEARS?!?! My goodness...

So regarding the building proposed for demolition. I spoke with the director of St Clair/Superior, and he has confirmed that they do not support the demolition of this building. He said they are actively trying to find another solution because the alternative is...wait for it...another parking lot!!! This building is quite unique, and needs a new life soon. My question to anyone on the board is who would have interest in remaking this building into artist live/work lofts. St Clair is relatively intact and with all of the great work by the CDC, in a few years we would look back on demolition as a mistake.

That's definitely a negative development.  I can say that the feeling of the CDC and the design review board was not at all supportive of demo, and they are trying to work with the owner to find alternatives.  That said the building has been vacant for over 30 years and is in pretty sad shape inside.  Stay tuned...

 

For over 30 YEARS?!?! My goodness...

 

That's very common. There's a beautiful old brick and stone building right across the street from the West Boulevard Red Line station that's been vacant for at least as long as that. Its owner, like many other owners of long-vacant properties in Cleveland, has been waiting to be enriched by some unpromised economic boom rather than take the best offer she can get.

That's definitely a negative development.  I can say that the feeling of the CDC and the design review board was not at all supportive of demo, and they are trying to work with the owner to find alternatives.  That said the building has been vacant for over 30 years and is in pretty sad shape inside.  Stay tuned...

 

For over 30 YEARS?!?! My goodness...

 

That's very common. There's a beautiful old brick and stone building right across the street from the West Boulevard Red Line station that's been vacant for at least as long as that. Its owner, like many other owners of long-vacant properties in Cleveland, has been waiting to be enriched by some unpromised economic boom rather than take the best offer she can get.

 

Is there no way to stop that? Imminent Domain, nothing?

That's very common. There's a beautiful old brick and stone building right across the street from the West Boulevard Red Line station that's been vacant for at least as long as that. Its owner, like many other owners of long-vacant properties in Cleveland, has been waiting to be enriched by some unpromised economic boom rather than take the best offer she can get.

 

Is there no way to stop that? Imminent Domain, nothing?

 

Not easily. A property owner is allowed to be greedy and think pretentiously about the value/prospects for their property. So they can try to get as much for their property as they want. However I do understand that the condition of these properties affects those of neighboring properties. And if the city sees increase service/inspection costs as a result of these neglected properties, it should be allowed to collect those costs from the property owner. But appropriating properties by eminent domain is very risky -- see the Fifth Church of Christ Scientist at Lake and West 117th for example. The city can be saddled with many vacant structures it cannot afford to maintain.

 

This is an interesting subject. Perhaps someone should start a separate, non-development thread for it?

That's definitely a negative development.  I can say that the feeling of the CDC and the design review board was not at all supportive of demo, and they are trying to work with the owner to find alternatives.  That said the building has been vacant for over 30 years and is in pretty sad shape inside.  Stay tuned...

 

For over 30 YEARS?!?! My goodness...

 

That's very common. There's a beautiful old brick and stone building right across the street from the West Boulevard Red Line station that's been vacant for at least as long as that. Its owner, like many other owners of long-vacant properties in Cleveland, has been waiting to be enriched by some unpromised economic boom rather than take the best offer she can get.

 

Is there no way to stop that? Imminent Domain, nothing?

 

There's a "cure" that's worse than the disease, if there ever was one.  If the building is being maintained and the taxes paid, the owner is fulfilling their obligations and should be left unmolested. 

I think in many cases the buildings aren't maintained and the owners don't pay taxes.

 

Didn't we just find out that the owners of the mansion on Euclid Avenue haven't paid any taxes? Why don't we go after these type of owners?

That's definitely a negative development.  I can say that the feeling of the CDC and the design review board was not at all supportive of demo, and they are trying to work with the owner to find alternatives.  That said the building has been vacant for over 30 years and is in pretty sad shape inside.  Stay tuned...

 

For over 30 YEARS?!?! My goodness...

 

That's very common. There's a beautiful old brick and stone building right across the street from the West Boulevard Red Line station that's been vacant for at least as long as that. Its owner, like many other owners of long-vacant properties in Cleveland, has been waiting to be enriched by some unpromised economic boom rather than take the best offer she can get.

 

Is there no way to stop that? Imminent Domain, nothing?

 

There's a "cure" that's worse than the disease, if there ever was one.  If the building is being maintained and the taxes paid, the owner is fulfilling their obligations and should be left unmolested. 

 

Are you not paying attention to any part of this conversation? The whole point is that these buildings are NOT being maintained, and are left crumbling while the owners do nothing.

 

Sooo... back on topic...

I'm spending a lot of time driving through Central and on East 55th

w/ the new job.

 

There's a small building being built on the west side of East 55th at Hawthorne Avenue. No basement, I saw them pour concrete and didn't dig up much of a foundation.

Any idea of what it is ? Looks to be the size of a fast food place, but I'd be surprised if it is, the concrete ground-pour looks to be less than 50 feet from the curb.

Dollar General, most likely....

 

Sooo... back on topic...

I'm spending a lot of time driving through Central and on East 55th

w/ the new job.

 

There's a small building being built on the west side of East 55th at Hawthorne Avenue. No basement, I saw them pour concrete and didn't dig up much of a foundation.

Any idea of what it is ? Looks to be the size of a fast food place, but I'd be surprised if it is, the concrete ground-pour looks to be less than 50 feet from the curb.

 

I posted the plans for it last spring, so they got whacked during the Great UO Crash of 2013. I don't remember specific users of this small retail development, but In pretty sure its not a Dollar Store/Family Dollar/Etc.

 

EDIT: I haven't found anything yet about the above the project, but I found the demolition application for the Cedar Extension from the June 13 Landmarks Commission agenda....

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2013/06132013/index.php

 

That demolition is well underway, to make room from this.....

 

 

 

 

 

For this.....

 

 

That's definitely a negative development.  I can say that the feeling of the CDC and the design review board was not at all supportive of demo, and they are trying to work with the owner to find alternatives.  That said the building has been vacant for over 30 years and is in pretty sad shape inside.  Stay tuned...

 

For over 30 YEARS?!?! My goodness...

 

That's very common. There's a beautiful old brick and stone building right across the street from the West Boulevard Red Line station that's been vacant for at least as long as that. Its owner, like many other owners of long-vacant properties in Cleveland, has been waiting to be enriched by some unpromised economic boom rather than take the best offer she can get.

 

Is there no way to stop that? Imminent Domain, nothing?

 

There's a "cure" that's worse than the disease, if there ever was one.  If the building is being maintained and the taxes paid, the owner is fulfilling their obligations and should be left unmolested. 

 

Are you not paying attention to any part of this conversation? The whole point is that these buildings are NOT being maintained, and are left crumbling while the owners do nothing.

Which doesn't seem to be the case on West Blvd.  "Opportunity cost" should not be grounds for eminent domain.