Does anyone else but me think Ohio need Statement Skyscrapers entering the metro's like you see in Atlanta northside.. It's a way of saying this is an impressive and important metro.

^

Do you mean the one's that are about 10 miles north of downtown Atlanta by Marietta? If so I  agree, and when I started reading about the Quarries project in Amherst that was the first thing that jumped into my head.

I like only having one downtown....even though it is looking like Cleveland might be growing a second one (UCircle)

Scary scary concept.

 

It would be a horrible idea to build a skyscraper in, say, Strongsville or Amherst.  It would further decimate our office market and sprawl sprawl sprawl! 

 

 

I don't get exactly what you mean by "statement skyscrapers".  Do they have to be in the suburbs?  Wouldn't one massive skyline like Chicago's make the point better?

Of course Chicago is nice. I'm just saying I would like to see some, so people would get a feeling of a sign of things to come. ;)

In Cleveland's case, there's Crown Center in Independence, which I think makes a dramatic statement. I absolutely love driving up I-77 and seeing it there and then as you drive past, it gives way to the skyline in the distance:

 

id say if there was anything built like this in cleveland i bet itd be in University Circle, but yea every day im driving up 77 its cool to see Crown Center and then Cleveland in the distance.  altho what happened to the green neons?  those arent always on anymore

Scary scary concept.

 

It would be a horrible idea to build a skyscraper in, say, Strongsville or Amherst.  It would further decimate our office market and sprawl sprawl sprawl! 

 

 

 

If the skyscrapper is residential, then I wouldn't mind having them on streets in downtown, University Circle, Quay, detroit shoreway, Ohio City or the flats.

 

I think downtown Cleveland is the best place for commercial towers, however, midrise signature towers in UC don't bother me

Scary scary concept.

 

It would be a horrible idea to build a skyscraper in, say, Strongsville or Amherst.  It would further decimate our office market and sprawl sprawl sprawl! 

 

 

 

If the skyscrapper is residential, then I wouldn't mind having them on streets in downtown, University Circle, Quay, detroit shoreway, Ohio City or the flats.

 

I think downtown Cleveland is the best place for commercial towers, however, midrise signature towers in UC don't bother me

 

When the first post mentioned the entrance into the metro area, I don't think that UC hardly qualifies as the entrance into Cleveland Metro.  Nowadays, its Brunswick and Strongsville, Avon or Bay Village that would qualify as such. 

 

I would love to see 10-15 story buildings in UC.

i noticed that even in all those visionary pesht plans over so many blocks and new blocks downtown in the warehouse district that stark left that "ameritrust" block empty on public square. so even if all that stuff was ever built he still left that important spot open for a statement tower. wise.

^ And, it's owned by Jacobs, who tried to block Stark from building Crocker Park. Imagine how much more that parking lot will be worth if Stark/Asher succeeds in filling in the WHD gaps -- and how much more dead that Jacobs lot will look.

The first time I drove into Cleveland from the west on I-90, it was a very humid, hazy summer morning.  The metro seemed to transition rapidly from rural, to suburban, to urban.  Then as the Key and Terminal towers came into view, I was overwhelmed with excitement.  These two towers do way more than make a statement for downtown Cleveland, they take it to another level for a first time visitor.  Part of the awe was the poor visibility that morning, I'd say maybe 2 to 4 miles max.  So the towers just seemed to materialize out of thin air. The Cleveland metro doesn't need any suburban towers to make a statement.  The downtown skyline makes suburban Cleveland look dull and boring (at least on the west side), and is all the statement that the metro needs.

I lived in Houston for a regretable year, the first time I flew in, I saw downtown Houston, then another downtown Houston, then another. 

On the ground that makes for a very incohesive city.

I lived in Houston for a regretable year, the first time I flew in, I saw downtown Houston, then another downtown Houston, then another. 

On the ground that makes for a very incohesive city.

 

You poor thing!  LOL  now H-town is most definitely one sprawling joint.  Yeah the got downtown...then the medical center...then the galleria area.  its a mess.

I like playing the game of "count the downtowns in Los Angeles".

 

By the way, does the Fujitec building in Cincinnati count as a statement skyscraper?  That bastard is way outta downtown.  What the heck is that building anyways... it's creepy.

To me, there are 3 areas in greater Cleveland that demonstrates this:

 

Entering Cleveland via I-480 East, the Great Northern mall exit in North Olmsted is home to 2 high rise apartments, definatley a feeling that you're in a metro area.

 

Entering Cleveland via I-77 North, Independence at the Rockside Road exit is the high rise Crowne Centre I (14 stories), which I believe is the best statement skyscraper to welcome visitors coming from the south. Independence also has Crowne Center II and Independence Tower (both 9-10 stories), and a large number of mid-rise offices (5-6 stories). There is plans to build Crowne Centre III which would be the tallest one yet (e.g. greater than 14 stories). This area also has the old "Realty One" colossal office building and the Embassy Suites (9-10 stories).. passing all of this is the best welcome to metro Cleveland that a visitor can get.

 

Entering Cleveland via I-90 West, 2 high rise condo towers in Bratenahl, and a large number of others sporadically placed in Wickliffe, East Cleveland, and Euclid, especially along Lakeshore Boulevard that are clearly visible from the I-90. There are also 2-3 highrises at the Willoughby exit for SOM Center Road. If you consider apartments and condo's to be statement skyscrapers, then a drive along I-90 works well.

 

Also, you could say that entering Cleveland from the south, passing thru Akron complements a welcoming to the Cleveland area.

^if only it was downtown somewhere like it is supposed to be. notice downtown is tantalizing us in the backgound of that shot. you can almost hear it calling "come home" to that building -- lol! ugh.

I don't think downtown Cleveland wants that hideous building.

 

But then again, it does have that US Bank building thingie in Star Plaza...

The towers at the I-75/285 interchange belong in either Midtown or Downtown Atlanta.  The reason why sprawl is so bad there is because of these large office towers/parks.  People can move even further out because they are not traveling downtown.

^ Bingo!

 

Edge cities = evil  :whip:

These towers, although they are impressive and look cool, would undermine our central cities as they would pull business away from the downtowns and promote sprawl.  Bad!  Columbus also has this problem, but to a lesser extent.  There are many office buildings along 270 going along the northern outerbelt from Hilliard to Gahana. 

^ But you need to even out the traffic. If everyone worked downtown. The one way commute would be insane.

If you want to view some impressive statement skyscrapers, drive down Interstate 88 (aka East-West Tollway, aka Ronald Reagan Memorial Tollway) on Chicago's west side.  I could not believe it the first time I used that road.  I honestly could not believe the structures in these suburbs!

^ But you need to even out the traffic. If everyone worked downtown. The one way commute would be insane.

 

Not with an efficient mix of light rail, commuter rail, express buses, and bike and pedestrian friendly routes to nearby dense housing neighborhoods.  Try doing that with signature scrapers in the burbs.

I think why all of these tall towers are built out of downtown areas is because land is much cheaper in the suburbs and this allows them to build either a bigger building or simply save costs.

There are alot of reasons why they do build offices out in the suburbs- cost, convenience to workforce and senior management, negative perceptions of the inner city, tax/regulations generally being higher in the city.

^and most of all, unlike other countries the utter lack of any foresight via land use planning and regulation -- ugh.

This conversation makes me think of the Galleria area in Houston (the ultimate sprawl city).  It's like a second downtown, and try as they may, they haven't been able to manage the traffic increases over the past 10 years.  It can take you 10 minutes to drive 3 blocks in a "suburb"!!!

 

 

I believe the only reason Cincinnati hasn't seen these towers pop-up along the northern beltway is because Cincinnati is smaller and not growing nearly as fast as those cities mentioned.  Hey, business will build where it is best for them, it is up to each community to decide what incentives to give a business.  I know it would hurt Cincinnati for a little while, but if they cut the income tax to half of what it is, I bet we would see more investment in the city.  2.1% is stupid.

Yes, but businesses also like to have services (i.e. road maintenance, trash pickup, police and fire protection, etc.).  The question is if Cincy can cut its taxes without reducing services to a third-world level.  I'd bet that they can't cut them by any substantial amount.

I don't know about the tax thing. Look at Blue Ash. They tend to like 4-6 story office buildings instead of 15-25 story buildings.

Well it depends on the city, and most of the suburbs along the northern beltway would provide the services mentioned.  When a company is looking at how much they pay in income taxes, Cincinnati's 2.1% is much less attractive than Sharonville's 1% or those without an income tax at all.

But can Cincy provide the same services for the same amount? 

 

Which do you think costs more to maintain- new streets and infrastructure, largely paid for by state and federal economic development dollars, or 100-year old streets and other infrastructure, for the maintenance of which state and federal grants are not available. 

 

Which costs more to protect with police and fire service- a poor city with many unemployed individuals living in housing that has antique electrical systems, or a city that excludes the poor and has new houses?

 

Which city is going to have to provide more social services?  Spend more on schools to overcome the outdated buildings and poor student population?  Spend more on code enforcement and community development?

 

Comparing the income tax rates of inner cities to the tax rates of outer ring suburbs is an apples to oranges comparison.  They aren't doing the same things.  The outer suburbs don't have to do alot of those things.

 

Well then the city should stop doing some of those things and give incentive to private business to do certain tasks.  The government simply spends way to much and private business could do similar things at much less cost and better efficiency.

That's arguable.

^ But you need to even out the traffic. If everyone worked downtown. The one way commute would be insane.

 

Have you ever driven by, through, around, or past Atlanta?  Even with all of its office parks it is a mess.  It's nightmare driving in that metro area. 

^ Of course...Just look at I-75 outside the loop it's jammed southbound 6-8 lanes one way in the morning while the northbound is nearly empty. In the afternoon it's opposite. If everyone worked  in Downtown Atlanta traffic would be much worse than it is now.

Well on our recent family trip to Florida, we hit rush hour in Atlanta.  We stopped once, outside of the I-285 loop and then traffic moved very well.  Some days I would say Cincinnati is much worse as I have travelled trough/in Atlanta several times and only had minor delays.

^ I don't know about that. They have this 16 lane highway called the downtown connector that solid during rush hour and their northern loop puts I-275 to shame.

Yes I know the connector can get very bad, but if you can take the HOV lanes, you get through pretty quickly.

I don't hit much traffic to and from work.  Of course, I leave my house around 7:30 AM, and I leave work around 5:00 PM.  I am currently commuting from Pleasant Ridge to down town. 

 

Dayton's "statement skyscraper", in the sense that the thread parent means, would be the Dayco building, used to be "Prestige Plaza", on I -75 at the OH 725 interchange. 

 

Dayco is probably one of the taller buildings outside of downtown...Dayton doesn't really have any talls outside of the CBD (there are a few exceptions), and this would be the one most visible to freeway traffic.