April 6, 201510 yr Are you sure they were fogging up? The benefit of a double facade and multipane glass is that you don't have big temperature differences between either side of the panes because there's the buffer zone between the two curtain wall systems and within each window itself. This insulates the interior from the exterior and vice versa. Not to say it's impossible, but even if poorly built I'm not sure how these would be fogged up in just a normal situation. How is the payment for this renovation occurring? Was it an "all at once" payment or are they leveraging money in some manner that will be paid back over a long course of time? Because the energy savings could equate to monthly savings greater or equal to the payment for the renovation meaning it won't actually cost anyone anything in the long run. Especially as energy costs increase as time goes on. Wasn't the original facade in poor condition too? As in it would have needed to be replaced soon regardless? Curtain walls from that era aren't known for their longevity. Meaning, though expensive, this renovation took a situation that would've cost a lot of money, increased the funds, and got a better product out of it?
April 6, 201510 yr Are you sure they were fogging up? The benefit of a double facade and multipane glass is that you don't have big temperature differences between either side of the panes because there's the buffer zone between the two curtain wall systems and within each window itself. This insulates the interior from the exterior and vice versa. Not to say it's impossible, but even if poorly built I'm not sure how these would be fogged up in just a normal situation. How is the payment for this renovation occurring? Was it an "all at once" payment or are they leveraging money in some manner that will be paid back over a long course of time? Because the energy savings could equate to monthly savings greater or equal to the payment for the renovation meaning it won't actually cost anyone anything in the long run. Especially as energy costs increase as time goes on. Wasn't the original facade in poor condition too? As in it would have needed to be replaced soon regardless? Curtain walls from that era aren't known for their longevity. Meaning, though expensive, this renovation took a situation that would've cost a lot of money, increased the funds, and got a better product out of it? Oh, there were several panes on that side that appeared compromised/fogged up--probably 10-15, randomly situated. It was very obvious the way the sun was hitting the building that morning. It was also very cold out in the morning, which when coupled with the sun hitting the building, could explain. I could easily see the seals on certain of the panes being defective in some way; or certain of the windows being improperly installed. My recollection is that this project is costing somewhere in the $130M range. It would seem that it'll take a long time to recoup that investment.
April 6, 201510 yr ^Sounds like there is possibly some poor installation occurring. Does anyone know if this double skin facade has conditioned space between the two curtain walls? Many do and this eliminates any fogging that could occur. This could be the source if that gap is not conditioned at the moment but will be in the future. The reason I asked about the state of the original facade was that, though $130 million, it probably would have cost a large portion of that just to redo the original facade but without any of the cost saving benefits. Still a huge payoff period, but still, it could potentially be beneficial to the overall cost of running this building into the future.
July 1, 20159 yr Everybody's "favorite" development. They closed Lakeside this evening to unload more construction materials... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 1, 20159 yr I was in an architect's office last week in the Penton media building next door. We were looking at the progress of this and the architects were all commenting about how they've seen dozens of the panels be removed and reinstalled. Apparently there's some issues with the construction details that is requiring rework of the glass panels. There's really no way this project can be on schedule anymore, can it?
July 1, 20159 yr can anyone say if this was supposedly funded with ARRA ("stimulus") funds? Those ARRA projects had strict deadlines for project completion and the funding was tied to hitting deadlines... I'm guessing it probably was not, as those projects were supposed to be "shovel ready".
July 1, 20159 yr I bet the Hilton is completed before this is done. Some government-funded projects go faster than others, I guess. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 1, 20159 yr I actually really like the look of the new panels in that light. Most times I'm not too crazy about how the new glass looks, but I think you found the one good time of day for this building!
July 1, 20159 yr I think blast-proofing was another aspect. Does anyone know why the east façade did a massive reconfiguration and looks different than the other 3 facades? I'm guessing that had something to do with the 6 month delay. Yup. First, the building's proximity to surrounding streets is why the FBI, ATF, etc were relocated to a new building on Lakeside yet set back from the street in a horizontally spread out structure that couldn't be brought down Oklahoma City-style. But many more federal offices remain in the federal building which had to be protected as best it could from street-side attack. ATF is actually in a private sector building in Independence.
July 1, 20159 yr I actually really like the look of the new panels in that light. Most times I'm not too crazy about how the new glass looks, but I think you found the one good time of day for this building! I agree. The new glass looks good from the angle of the picture that KJP took and makes it look like a new building. I still hope they follow up with the changes to the top of the building that is in the renderings. The top looks horrible as it is now. Another benefit would be that it would move the height of the building past the Justice Center as there is only a 1 foot difference now.
July 1, 20159 yr I was in an architect's office last week in the Penton media building next door. We were looking at the progress of this and the architects were all commenting about how they've seen dozens of the panels be removed and reinstalled. Apparently there's some issues with the construction details that is requiring rework of the glass panels. There's really no way this project can be on schedule anymore, can it? I'm not sure I'm remembering this right but isn't this process of covering the existing facade with this outer glass panel shell new and experimental? I thought I read that this has never been done and was a unique solution to both make this building more energy efficient as well as more secure in the event of some sort of blast or terror attack. If that's true I would not be surprised if there were adjustments and changes as they find out what works and what doesn't. Also, for all of the delay if this is the first and it does create significant energy savings it will be cool and significant to have the first such building here in Cleveland, especially if this process is replicated in other projects. Hopefully I'm right and that explains the delays.
July 1, 20159 yr It may be the first skyscraper in the US to do this, but it's not the first building in the world to. Maybe as a renovation this might be true, but double skin facades exist all over. It's more that the US is just slow to adapt to environmentally-friendly changes in architecture.
July 1, 20159 yr I was in an architect's office last week in the Penton media building next door. We were looking at the progress of this and the architects were all commenting about how they've seen dozens of the panels be removed and reinstalled. Apparently there's some issues with the construction details that is requiring rework of the glass panels. There's really no way this project can be on schedule anymore, can it? I'm not sure I'm remembering this right but isn't this process of covering the existing facade with this outer glass panel shell new and experimental? I thought I read that this has never been done and was a unique solution to both make this building more energy efficient as well as more secure in the event of some sort of blast or terror attack. If that's true I would not be surprised if there were adjustments and changes as they find out what works and what doesn't. Also, for all of the delay if this is the first and it does create significant energy savings it will be cool and significant to have the first such building here in Cleveland, especially if this process is replicated in other projects. Hopefully I'm right and that explains the delays. "In many ways, the project is a test case for the GSA and for every skyline in the country. Agency officials believe the project will be the first time an existing skyscraper in the United States is wrapped in a second skin designed in large part to conserve energy. The new facade, which will be placed 2.5 feet outside the original facade, will create a cushion of insulating air that will turn the building into a giant thermos." - Steven Litt, cleveland.com, (January 27, 2011 at 12:00) "GSA designs for new Celebrezze building facades will mute the 1960s look of the tower"
July 2, 20159 yr ^Thanks. I think that explains in part why it may be taking so long to get this right, and why panels were seen being removed and reinstalled.
July 2, 20159 yr I just want to know how they are going to clean the inner glass... Right now there's a ladder visible between the original and the new exterior. I'm guessing the gap between the two is easily accessible at some point.
July 2, 20159 yr I just want to know how they are going to clean the inner glass... Right now there's a ladder visible between the original and the new exterior. I'm guessing the gap between the two is easily accessible at some point. Now there's a job I could never do...claustrophobic heights!
July 3, 20159 yr I think this is why this building is looking sooo good in pics all the sudden. Caught it in just the right light, you can see they are coating/tinting the new exterior windows.
July 3, 20159 yr There's a narrow walkway between the two panes of glass and every 10th window is a crank accessible window.
July 4, 20159 yr It actually looks much much better than the original. Hopefully they have it done by the time I retire.
August 16, 20159 yr View from the Terminal Tower observation deck: clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
October 13, 20159 yr Interesting mechanism on tracks; A video of the rooftop mounted device loading glass down the side of the tower - for new windows on the A.J. Celebrezze Building
January 30, 20169 yr http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2016/01/cinematheque_to_host_debut_of.html I'm so confused. This project is not done! I stare at it everyday at work. There's a large area at the top of the building that has not been covered with the new glass. Anyone know what's up? This article makes it sound like it's done.
January 30, 20169 yr Actually the article says 'nearing completion'. I guess I needed to read more closely. It seemed like for a while they were making fairly good progress (considering) and then it came to a halt, maybe the winter put a pause on work.
January 30, 20169 yr Hopefully, the top of the building will be like the renderings to cover up the mechanical stuff. So, I hope they have a ways to go before they are done.
April 12, 20169 yr Poorly written piece about a poorly executed renovation. Sloppy all the way around... Construction concerns over Cleveland building http://www.wkyc.com/mb/news/local/cleveland/construction-concerns-over-cleveland-building/125226777 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 12, 20169 yr Definitely an odd report... But nonetheless what a debacle of a project. Does anyone know when they plan to continue the recladding work ? I assume they've stopped for winter as I haven't seen any activity for months. I hope this thing is finished soon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
April 12, 20169 yr I spoke too soon. They are working on the building this morning, for the first time I have seen in months.
June 4, 20169 yr On Thursday, NPR's national broadcast All Things Considered aired a piece by WCPN about the work being done on the Celebrezze building: http://www.npr.org/2016/06/02/480487322/u-s-agency-tries-radical-rehab-technique-on-aging-government-buildings They don't talk about cost or schedule overruns but they do talk to architect Pieter van Dijk among others.
February 23, 20178 yr Anyone happen to know anything more on this project? Like when they plan to finish!? Looking at the building today I really feel the building looks much worse post-renovation. On cloudy days the building looks so dreary and dirty. As you can see below. Unfortunately it is one of the most prominent buildings in our view from One Cleveland Center.
February 24, 20178 yr Anyone know what the hold up in finishing this project is now? It feels like this project has been going on forever.
May 26, 20178 yr http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2017/05/ohio_federal_buildings_to_get.html#incart_river_home 74.2 MORE millions for this mess!? They haven't even finished the re-skinning! I am so over this building and project in every way... Cant we just go back to the Central Armory!?
May 26, 20178 yr Seriously--for the money the feds put into this place they could have built a new tower and sold off this one to a developer for $1 to clean up and convert to residential!
May 26, 20178 yr A good portion of the Great Pyramid was probably completed within the amount of time it has taken to put glass on this building.
May 27, 20178 yr In the video (yeah, I watched the whole thing), they mentioned the recladding costs as $140mm or something like that. I thought the cost was more than double that?
May 29, 20178 yr Seriously--for the money the feds put into this place they could have built a new tower and sold off this one to a developer for $1 to clean up and convert to residential! I was just thinking that. They would've been better off building a new one at this rate!
May 30, 20178 yr Seriously--for the money the feds put into this place they could have built a new tower and sold off this one to a developer for $1 to clean up and convert to residential! I was just thinking that. They would've been better off building a new one at this rate! If anyone actually watched the video, it was clearly mentioned that a new building would have cost $400 million. So, no, they could not have built a new building for what has been spent thus far. The initial money was for the outside and the new money is to update and renovate the inside for a grand total of half what a new federal building would have cost. Sounds pretty cost efficient to me.
May 30, 20178 yr Seriously--for the money the feds put into this place they could have built a new tower and sold off this one to a developer for $1 to clean up and convert to residential! I was just thinking that. They would've been better off building a new one at this rate! If anyone actually watched the video, it was clearly mentioned that a new building would have cost $400 million. So, no, they could not have built a new building for what has been spent thus far. The initial money was for the outside and the new money is to update and renovate the inside for a grand total of half what a new federal building would have cost. Sounds pretty cost efficient to me. I did watch the video and I did notice that statement that it would cost $400 million. It did include moving all of the staff out, finding new workspaces, demolition and then new construction. So while the actual building might not have cost much more than has been spent, or going to be spent, the ancillary costs were considered in their decision process. Sidenote, I have a good friend that worked for Van Dyck back in the 80's. I'm sure he will be interested to see this video.
January 31, 20187 yr I was just sitting here looking out my window wondering WHEN in the WORLD this project will be done... Because it is clearly not. I have seen sporadic workers here and there but for the better part of a year (or maybe even more than that) I feel like no real work has happened and the entire top of the eastern-facing facade sits unfinished. Now I see they are replacing the concrete down in the plaza since it all cracked. What a mess of a project that IMHO looks worse now than it did originally... Anyone have any inside info??
January 31, 20187 yr ^ Hey at least we aren't paying for it, this is all Fed money! Oh wait a minute......
January 31, 20187 yr It took 20 years for the original Great Wall (which can be viewed from space, constructed over 2,000 years ago), to be built. This thread was created in 2011, and here we are seven years later. At my job, I bet one of my coworkers that the glass wouldn't be finished on the building by a certain date. She owes me a six pack to this day, and the bet was from before the Hilton was built.
January 31, 20187 yr It took 20 years for the original Great Wall (which can be viewed from space, constructed over 2,000 years ago), to be built. This thread was created in 2011, and here we are seven years later. At my job, I bet one of my coworkers that the glass wouldn't be finished on the building by a certain date. She owes me a six pack to this day, and the bet was from before the Hilton was built. All this $$ to allegedly save $$ by making this building ''green''.
January 31, 20187 yr All this $$ to allegedly save $$ by making this building ''green''. Nope. To make it survive a car bomb or truck bomb. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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