February 1, 20187 yr I am certain this will be used as an example of the least successful economic way to convert a building to green efficiency.
February 1, 20187 yr Yeah, the green energy side of the equation didn't make any sort of economic sense if I'm remembering correctly. I guess they just wanted to market the project as being eco friendly. Like the crumbling concrete pedestal around the building isn't a bomb-proof perimeter with saplings, it's an "urban forest."
February 1, 20187 yr All this $$ to allegedly save $$ by making this building ''green''. Nope. To make it survive a car bomb or truck bomb. Nope. It's a ''green'' project (I thought it was). Supposed to be one of Obama's highly visible legacy projects of combining his stimulus money with energy conservation, and while they were at it, adding higher security measures in the process. If the ''green'' aspect of this project was absent, so would this 7 year project-fiasco. A lot of that 2009 stimulus $ was, if you recall, supposed to go for solar panels (think the Solyndra Scandal), cube cars for DC government workers etc. This fiasco at the Celebrezze Federal Building is not about it surviving car or truck bomb. http://s.cleveland.com/k0fZYeO
February 1, 20187 yr I am certain this will be used as an example of the least successful economic way to convert a building to green efficiency. A legacy of government waste. Who knows what the final tab will be. I do like its new updated look though!
February 1, 20187 yr I am certain this will be used as an example of the least successful economic way to convert a building to green efficiency. A legacy of government waste. totally. the entire point of trying to build a "bomb proof" building on a busy downtown corner is ludacris. Put the stupid thing in the suburbs or off the main grid someplace over by E22nd or something. What they've done now is spent $100 million to put a dumb glass enclosure on a building that may reduce energy expenses. Replacing windows with double pane like they did on the AECOM tower might've been about 1/100th the cost
February 1, 20187 yr Turns out it's both, and to renovate the building without disrupting the work inside.... There’s another goal in the Cleveland restoration. Ever since the Oklahoma City bombing the federal government has added blast protection to its buildings. http://www.ideastream.org/news/cleveland-federal-building-first-high-rise-under-glass "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 1, 20187 yr I am certain this will be used as an example of the least successful economic way to convert a building to green efficiency. A legacy of government waste. totally. the entire point of trying to build a "bomb proof" building on a busy downtown corner is ludacris. Put the stupid thing in the suburbs or off the main grid someplace over by E22nd or something. What they've done now is spent $100 million to put a dumb glass enclosure on a building that may reduce energy expenses. Replacing windows with double pane like they did on the AECOM tower might've been about 1/100th the cost Agree, that's what balustrades are for, to prevent car/truck bomb from driving into the building.
February 1, 20187 yr LOL! That's a crap article! It's dated April 2016, almost TWO YEARS AGO! and says "work is finishing up..." and let me tell ya, it's not a big deal to coordinate installing windows from the inside... "Hey you - work from home tomorrow. When you come back Monday, you'll no longer have drafty windows there, it will be new energy efficient double pane...."
February 1, 20187 yr It's the never ending project. I think it started before Flats East Bank even started.
February 1, 20187 yr Turns out it's both, and to renovate the building without disrupting the work inside.... There’s another goal in the Cleveland restoration. Ever since the Oklahoma City bombing the federal government has added blast protection to its buildings. http://www.ideastream.org/news/cleveland-federal-building-first-high-rise-under-glass Not to go on here, but Oklahoma City was in '95. If the government really wanted to protect its buildings, it would have moved on it a lot sooner. It's 23 years after OKC bombing and we're still waiting for this building to be ''protected''. This Celebrezze Bldg fiasco was a ''green'' project using federal stimulus $ that added a security measure to it while they were at it. No ''green'' stimulus $$, no project at all.
February 1, 20187 yr I did a bunch of local stimulus funded projects around Cleveland from 2008-2012. There were follow up energy audits done to verify the pay back based on the initial applications. I'd love to see how that initial payback assumption vs the actual audit turned out... the article KJP linked even says it would take 100 yrs to pay back. Nice
February 1, 20187 yr Told y’all they would’ve been better off building a brand new building at this rate lol
February 2, 20187 yr I forgot it was announced May of 2017 that an additional $74.2 million is to be spent on top of the $120 million spent on the "green"facade. None of those figures included repairing the faulty concrete plaza walls nor the WRL prior renovations. http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2017/05/ohio_federal_buildings_to_get.html
May 15, 20187 yr ^ Oh yeah, the "urban forest" haha. Central to the design is the concept of an urban forest that, together with careful modeling of the ground and layout of paths and low walls, form a protected microclimate, while remaining open and inviting to the city. https://www.theolinstudio.com/anthony-j-celebrezze-federal-building/
May 15, 20187 yr We've gone over this many times but does ANYONE know when they're going to finish their project? The building re-cladding is STILL NOT DONE. The upper portion facing east remains uncovered and is a huge eyesore.
May 15, 20187 yr We've gone over this many times but does ANYONE know when they're going to finish their project? The building re-cladding is STILL NOT DONE. The upper portion facing east remains uncovered and is a huge eyesore. I think the Beacon will be leased up before they are done with the Federal Building cladding.
May 15, 20187 yr I think that is how it is supposed to be. The original renderings show certain sides stopping at different heights I agree. It looks unfinished. This project would make a great documentary on failed energy saving techniques.
May 15, 20187 yr ^How do you know it failed? The north and east sides are not fully enclosed since there is not much solar heat gain on those facades. It doesn't excuse not continuing the facade on those faces though.
May 15, 20187 yr Any benefits this concept has or will have on lowering energy costs is outnumbered by the pricetag.
May 15, 20187 yr That's not a problem with double layered glazing as an energy saving technique, it's a problem with this specific project and the way it's managed. Duel layered glazing is popular outside of the US. It'll do what it's designed to do, it just cost way more than it should have and is taking way longer than it should have.
September 3, 20186 yr Ok, so in the right thread, this time, has GSA actually abandoned the reskinning project? Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
September 3, 20186 yr Sorry for starting this in the Lakefront thread... thanks for redirecting here. Right now they’re redoing the plaza- another mess to this project. The concrete was cracking and chunks were falling away so now they are in the process of completely redoing it. I don’t know how that effects the reskinning though, I would think they could do both simultaneously.
September 4, 20186 yr The recladding is done people. The north and east facades do not require the same thermal protection as the other two facades due to the fact that those facades’ solar heat gain is minimal, this explaning the different systems on those faces. That being said I think it’s ridiculous that they didn’t at least bring the glazing all the way to the top. It looks terrible.
September 4, 20186 yr Thanks for the info, w28th. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 4, 20186 yr The recladding is done people. The north and east facades do not require the same thermal protection as the other two facades due to the fact that those facades’ solar heat gain is minimal, this explaning the different systems on those faces. That being said I think it’s ridiculous that they didn’t at least bring the glazing all the way to the top. It looks terrible. Thanks. I thought it had something to do with not wanting to block the intake/exhaust louvers that are at the very top and left uncovered by the new cladding.
September 4, 20186 yr The recladding is done people. The north and east facades do not require the same thermal protection as the other two facades due to the fact that those facades’ solar heat gain is minimal, this explaning the different systems on those faces. That being said I think it’s ridiculous that they didn’t at least bring the glazing all the way to the top. It looks terrible. Amazingly this is shown in the original renderings, but is so subtle I never noticed. In real life the effect is much more jarring. But the design choices were noted in the original Cleveland.com blog article on the renderings being released. There's a link on page 1. "The results could be strange and disorienting, especially where Young designed his glass facade to peel away from the top of the Celebrezze tower, or to extend like a skirt below the lower edge of the tower block, above the arcades at the base of the building."
September 4, 20186 yr Still seems odd to me. They didn’t even bother to do the corners! If you look at the northwest and southwest corners compared to the other side you’ll see what i mean. I wish they would have left it the way it was. What a mess.
September 4, 20186 yr ^It reminds me of One Indiana Square - this was a cosmetic rework of the facade but still looks "unfinished". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_Tower_(Indianapolis) clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
August 1, 20195 yr More renovations? So this ought to be done by 2030.... U.S. office tower prepped for $54 million renovation https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/us-office-tower-prepped-54-million-renovation "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 1, 20195 yr 57 minutes ago, KJP said: More renovations? So this ought to be done by 2030.... U.S. office tower prepped for $54 million renovation https://www.crainscleveland.com/government/us-office-tower-prepped-54-million-renovation The numbers for this project are pure insanity. 6 floors being renovated is $54 million?????? Wtf Government contracts........???
August 1, 20195 yr The VA Always has construction continuously going on with projects that takes as long as this but at a much smaller scale. They even rip up sidewalks that appear to have nothing wrong with them and replace them with new one's. Changing furniture every couple of years. I could go on and on with the VA. I heard it has to do something with yearly budgets and the possibility of having problems getting money when they need it if they don't spend needlessly every year. I don't know.
August 1, 20195 yr ^Yep, if they don't spend their complete budget, their budget for the next year gets cut. To avoid this, I've heard of the Air Force filling up their idle planes with gasoline days before the budget deadline, just to spend as much money as they still can. As the planes sitting in the desert they start pissing out all the jet fuel because they've been overfilled. What a waste.
August 1, 20195 yr 12 hours ago, marty15 said: The numbers for this project are pure insanity. 6 floors being renovated is $54 million?????? Wtf Government contracts........??? That building is huge. They are only renovating 6 floors, but that comes out to 174,000 sq ft and $310/Sq. ft.
August 1, 20195 yr 12 hours ago, Mildtraumatic said: The VA Always has construction continuously going on with projects that takes as long as this but at a much smaller scale. They even rip up sidewalks that appear to have nothing wrong with them and replace them with new one's. Changing furniture every couple of years. I could go on and on with the VA. I heard it has to do something with yearly budgets and the possibility of having problems getting money when they need it if they don't spend needlessly every year. I don't know. 2 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said: ^Yep, if they don't spend their complete budget, their budget for the next year gets cut. To avoid this, I've heard of the Air Force filling up their idle planes with gasoline days before the budget deadline, just to spend as much money as they still can. As the planes sitting in the desert they start pissing out all the jet fuel because they've been overfilled. What a waste. This behavior isn't just in government - it's very common corporate behavior as well and for the same reasons. If your department doesn't spend all of its budget in one year, that budget gets cut the next year. So finding things to spend money on at the end of a quarter or fiscal year is very common in companies. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
August 1, 20195 yr 2 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: This behavior isn't just in government - it's very common corporate behavior as well and for the same reasons. If your department doesn't spend all of its budget in one year, that budget gets cut the next year. So finding things to spend money on at the end of a quarter or fiscal year is very common in companies. According to my friend, in the Army at the end of your tour you fire off all your ammo so that they don't cut it from your budget. Literally just unload thousands of dollars of rounds at nothing. Im sure there is a vet on here that can attest to that.
August 1, 20195 yr 2 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said: ^Yep, if they don't spend their complete budget, their budget for the next year gets cut. To avoid this, I've heard of the Air Force filling up their idle planes with gasoline days before the budget deadline, just to spend as much money as they still can. As the planes sitting in the desert they start pissing out all the jet fuel because they've been overfilled. What a waste. Air Force Crew Chief here, and you are 100% wrong about that. Planes are ONLY re-fueled pre-flight or whilst in air. They wouldn't top off tanks for storage, we have fuel centers for a reason. Planes STRICTLY do not store fuel. Sediment can build up and corrode reservoirs. Fraud Waste and Abuse prevents this kind of stuff. Edited August 1, 20195 yr by tastybunns
August 1, 20195 yr 5 hours ago, tastybunns said: Air Force Crew Chief here, and you are 100% wrong about that. Planes are ONLY re-fueled pre-flight or whilst in air. They wouldn't top off tanks for storage, we have fuel centers for a reason. Planes STRICTLY do not store fuel. Sediment can build up and corrode reservoirs. Fraud Waste and Abuse prevents this kind of stuff. While I respect your statement and your service, I don't think it's likely you have enough oversight of the goings on of every base and what they do to meet their budget to say my statement is 100% false!
August 2, 20195 yr 1 hour ago, Mov2Ohio said: While I respect your statement and your service, I don't think it's likely you have enough oversight of the goings on of every base and what they do to meet their budget to say my statement is 100% false! I flew on C-130s with the Air Force up until 2018. I promise you, in my 10 years of flying, I never once witnessed or heard of any behavior remotely close to what you described. That being said, no one can be 100% sure of anything, but in this case, all my experience points to the contrary.
August 2, 20195 yr 1 hour ago, Mov2Ohio said: While I respect your statement and your service, I don't think it's likely you have enough oversight of the goings on of every base and what they do to meet their budget to say my statement is 100% false! Meeting budget requirements by damaging aircraft? I think the worth of an aircraft is greater than fuel, best not to damage an operational aircraft. We do store remaining fuel in-between flight periods overnight, but not topped off full. There is a certain spec and little discrepancy for weight and balance per wing and inboard and outboard tanks & external tanks. We wouldn't refuel just to balance out an entire aircraft. We just end up transferring fuel between fuel tanks which is an easier process than re-fuel/de-fuel, and there is absolutely no reason to do so post-flight. Manuals tell us not to do so. Edited August 2, 20195 yr by tastybunns
October 11, 20204 yr Wow a new post in this thread, who would have thought. So I saw this on DODGE, which btw seems to be going away next month. I mean the free access anyway. It caught my eye because it's 70 million which amounts to some floor shuffling. When I first saw it I was hoping they were going to finish the windows at the top. But no such luck... RFP/CM: Celebrezze VBA Renovation & Backfill Valuation: $70,000,000Owner Type: PublicBid Ends: Oct 19, 2020 Location: OH (Cuyahoga) Report #: 201800709865 v. 10 Description: The General Services Administration (GSA), Great Lakes Region 5, announces an opportunity for Construction Manager as Constructor (CMc) Services to be provided for the Anthony J. Celebrezze - VBA Renovation and Backfill Project in Cleveland, Ohio. The contractor is to provide all management, supervision, manpower, equipment and supplies necessary for this project. The proposed CMc contract is being solicited as full and open competition. The award will be made to the responsible Offeror whose offer conforms to the solicitation and offers the best value to the Government, considering the technical factors and the total evaluated price<< Here is a more detailed description. https://www.constructionjournal.com/projects/details/0da42a1e82584942b277130a39ce1ac2.html
October 11, 20204 yr 21 minutes ago, freethink said: Wow a new post in this thread, who would have thought. So I saw this on DODGE, which btw seems to be going away next month. I mean the free access anyway. It caught my eye because it's 70 million which amounts to some floor shuffling. When I first saw it I was hoping they were going to finish the windows at the top. But no such luck... RFP/CM: Celebrezze VBA Renovation & Backfill Valuation: $70,000,000Owner Type: PublicBid Ends: Oct 19, 2020 Location: OH (Cuyahoga) Report #: 201800709865 v. 10 Description: The General Services Administration (GSA), Great Lakes Region 5, announces an opportunity for Construction Manager as Constructor (CMc) Services to be provided for the Anthony J. Celebrezze - VBA Renovation and Backfill Project in Cleveland, Ohio. The contractor is to provide all management, supervision, manpower, equipment and supplies necessary for this project. The proposed CMc contract is being solicited as full and open competition. The award will be made to the responsible Offeror whose offer conforms to the solicitation and offers the best value to the Government, considering the technical factors and the total evaluated price<< Here is a more detailed description. https://www.constructionjournal.com/projects/details/0da42a1e82584942b277130a39ce1ac2.html Well at least the Feds are investing in the buildings and not letting them fall into disrepair (like the Justice Center)
October 24, 20204 yr I saw that on Dodge too but wasn't sure if it was the continuation of a project that was already underway. "A.J. Celebrezze Federal Building: Cleveland's longest-running economic stimulus program!" "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 18, 20214 yr Anyone have a sense of this job happening on the Celebrezze Tower - Maybe just interior design work? Article: Homeland Security Today $714,000 for building consolidation design on the Anthony J. Celebrezze Federal Building in Cleveland, Ohio, awarded to MGA Partners, LLC (small business)
February 19, 20214 yr 13 hours ago, ExPatClevGuy said: Anyone have a sense of this job happening on the Celebrezze Tower - Maybe just interior design work? Article: Homeland Security Today $714,000 for building consolidation design on the Anthony J. Celebrezze Federal Building in Cleveland, Ohio, awarded to MGA Partners, LLC (small business) Yes, it’s renovation of floors and consolidation of space by one of the agencies.
December 31, 20222 yr Apologies! I wasnt around these UO parts back when this cladding retrofit was completed. Does anyone have any photos of what the view looks like now when looking out of the windows on the South and West facades? I'm having trouble of developing a good mental image of what a 2.5 ft gap between the original windows and new exterior would actually mean to the the interior spaces. I can imagine it would feel a bit claustrophobic if you had a window seat. Plus, how do they keep the now three (?) glass surfaces clean?
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