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29 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

Boston University graduates boo commencement speaker:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/david-zaslav-booed-boston-university-graduation-writers-strike-1235497440/

 

It's not like these people are booing some mine owner who is exploiting dangerous physical labor.  These people are all so childish that they conflate the "struggle" of script writers in urbane Los Angeles, where there are plenty of other jobs, for that of coal miners, steel workers, etc., who live in remote areas and have few or zero alternatives.    

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Critical thinking skills are no longer taught in college

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3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Critical thinking skills are no longer taught in college

 

I doubt that many of the Boston University hecklers are able to write a persuasive five paragraph essay in support of their viewpoints. 

 

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

 

I doubt that many of the Boston University hecklers are able to write a persuasive five paragraph essay in support of their viewpoints. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is another example of a young college student getting out over her skis on an issue that she does not know much about. She knows that she does not like it because it does not "feel" right for her, but what this issue is mostly about is something in the "weeds" of workers comp law and not some transformational change in workers comp law. And no, it will not affect whether a player signs with the Bengals or Browns as she tries to claim. It is another example of a college student getting passionate and upset about something she knows little about. 

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2023/05/21/changing-workers-comp-rules-a-major-fumble-for-ohio-pro-athletes/70226846007/

Just now, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

This is another example of a young college student getting out over her skis on an issue that she does not know much about. She knows that she does not like it because it does not "feel" right for her, but what this issue is mostly about is something in the "weeds" of workers comp law and not some transformational change in workers comp law. And no, it will not affect whether a player signs with the Bengals or Browns as she tries to claim. It is another example of a college student getting passionate and upset about something she knows little about. 

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2023/05/21/changing-workers-comp-rules-a-major-fumble-for-ohio-pro-athletes/70226846007/

 

 

I don't subscribe to The Enquirer so I can't read it.  

 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

 

 

I don't subscribe to The Enquirer so I can't read it.  

 

 

 

 

 

Neither do I it is in the free section you just need to provide your email.

Edited by Brutus_buckeye

19 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Neither do I it is in the free section you just need to provide your email.

 

I didn't know that.  

 

I am skeptical that the writer came up with the idea for the letter.  

 

Per google, she has been padding her resume for years:

https://innerview.org/terrelynvirzi

 

Look at the home page - it's a resume padder's paradise.   

 

Speaking of artificial intelligence - by this time next year we'll have student essays written by AI software...plus college admissions software that reads and grades it!

 

 

 

 

 

  • 1 month later...
2 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

U.S. Supreme Court cancels Biden's student loan cancellation:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/30/supreme-court-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-plan.html

 

 

Screenshot 2023-07-01 at 11.22.25 AM.png

^ While a number of new college grads will be upset by this, it is the right decision and the reasoning is correct. The president does not have the authority to unilaterally cancel debt.  

 

The other thing I did not understand is why current college students were so excited about Biden's plan. The debt cancellation would have been a one time thing and they would not have had their debt wiped out. They would have essentially financed the forgiveness for those who were fortunate enough to graduate a couple years ahead of them  and eligible for forgiveness. Current students who were not in repayment would have received nothing outside of a wink wink that they may do something for them in the future

Bankruptcies for me, not for thee.

Billionaire assholes alllowed to skip rent and vendor payments to no consequence.

Hundreds of billions in PPP "loans" gone into the ether. Not a big deal.

Trillions disappeared into the military ether over the years. Don't worry about it.

 

But students getting a modicum of breathing room from predatory interest rates -- the Supreme Court sexual predators and other deplorables put their foot down finally.

18-year-olds all told to go to college and borrow money because good office jobs were on the other side. When they get out all jobs are blue collar yet we blame the kids.

38 minutes ago, TBideon said:

 

Billionaire assholes alllowed to skip rent and vendor payments to no consequence.

 

 

Borrowers haven't had to pay on their student loans since March 2020.  Interest hasn't accrued.  Inflation + plus no interest = they've already enjoyed a significant reduction in their effective balances, in some cases more than $10,000. 

 

What did everyone do with the $200-500 extra they had sitting around for the past 40~ months?  Some people have been able to postpone in excess of $20,000. 

I'm sure that will be top of their minds when they pick up another night shift at the warehouse.

3 hours ago, TBideon said:

But students getting a modicum of breathing room from predatory interest rates -- the Supreme Court sexual predators and other deplorables put their foot down finally.

Predatory Interest Rates??? That is a bit of hyperbole don't you think?

The vast majority of student loans are Federally guaranteed loans and they carry interest rates ranging from the mid 3% - 8% range. Nothing in these ranges would be considered predatory.  Private loans have a higher rates that are attached to them but they are also more risky and are also subordinate to Federal Loans so it should be reasonable that they are higher. THere are very few private loans left anymore since Obama effectively nationalized the student loan environment but those which are are not subject to loan forgiveness from the government anyways.

 

Given the range of interest rates for student loans, it is obvious that they are far from predatory and clearly are subsidized by tax dollars to keep rates artificially lower and affordable given the risk posed

2 hours ago, GCrites said:

18-year-olds all told to go to college and borrow money because good office jobs were on the other side. When they get out all jobs are blue collar yet we blame the kids.

Many 18 year olds were given bad advice from their high school advisors in an effort to make their school system seem better in rankings and to demonstrate that the school district is high achieving by the amount of kids that went to college from there. The schools could care less what happened to the kids once they got to college, and they could care less what the financial burden of such kid going to a 4 year college was. It was solely about statistics and bolstering their standing on the arbitrary metric established at the time. The kids be damned, they did not matter in the grand scheme of things. No longer were trade schools and trades acceptable careers, it was all about going to college so the school district looked good in the rankings. 

13 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Given the range of interest rates for student loans, it is obvious that they are far from predatory and clearly are subsidized by tax dollars to keep rates artificially lower and affordable given the risk posed

 

I vaguely recall that I had a mix of "subsidized" and "unsubsidized" loans, and that the rate difference was roughly 2%.  I was sent a booklet that gave me a tear-off to send in with a single check each month.  It was kind of tough to remember to send it on time because I was disorganized.   At some point they offered auto-withdrawal and after that I didn't have any late payments anymore. 

 

 

On 7/1/2023 at 4:46 PM, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

Yeah, anyone who didn't attend an in-state school shouldn't be complaining about loans.

 

As I have already pointed out, in-state tuition around the country seems to follow the max federal loan amount for undergrads, +/- $1,000.  Coincidence?

 

Germain to this topic, I submit a recent WVXU report:

https://www.wvxu.org/education/2023-07-06/incoming-college-students-supreme-court-ruling-student-debt-forgiveness

 

Why is this high schooler from Michigan considering UC?  She will almost certainly have to pay more out-of-state, even with scholarships, than she could attending Michigan State or other schools in her state. 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Lazarus said:

 

Yeah, anyone who didn't attend an in-state school shouldn't be complaining about loans.

 

As I have already pointed out, in-state tuition around the country seems to follow the max federal loan amount for undergrads, +/- $1,000.  Coincidence?

 

Germain to this topic, I submit a recent WVXU report:

https://www.wvxu.org/education/2023-07-06/incoming-college-students-supreme-court-ruling-student-debt-forgiveness

 

Why is this high schooler from Michigan considering UC?  She will almost certainly have to pay more out-of-state, even with scholarships, than she could attending Michigan State or other schools in her state. 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe she wants to do co-op for networking purposes. I don't know which state schools in Michigan have it.

21 minutes ago, GCrites said:

 

Maybe she wants to do co-op for networking purposes. I don't know which state schools in Michigan have it.

 

 

She could change majors and end up paying for 6 years of out-of-state instead of 4.  Loans, baby!

While this is admittedly ridiculous if we're really just talking about decor, I'm curious how prevalent it really is.

 

That said, moving away to college is expensive for all kinds of other reasons.  By far the most expensive new item I got for my dorm was my new desktop computer.  That was somewhere in the $2000 range including the 19" CRT monitor.  I got the Pentium II with 450Mhz clock speed, because I was fancy like that.  And the 2 GB EIDE hard drive.  And the 4X CD-RW drive.

 

It was enough power to run Snood, Starcraft, and Heroes of Might and Magic III.  And Microsoft Word on occasion.

 

Oh, and I had to buy a whole new wardrobe because I gained 10-15 pounds my freshman year. 🤷‍♂️🥺  Dammit Buckeye Express!  (Also the whole "no longer being on a state-qualifying cross country team and running 40+ miles a week.")

1 hour ago, Gramarye said:

By far the most expensive new item I got for my dorm was my new desktop computer.  That was somewhere in the $2000 range including the 19" CRT monitor.  I got the Pentium II with 450Mhz clock speed, because I was fancy like that.  And the 2 GB EIDE hard drive.  And the 4X CD-RW drive.

I was at a museum once and I saw a Pentium computer. Dude you are old :) 

On 7/12/2023 at 10:55 AM, Gramarye said:

 

That said, moving away to college is expensive for all kinds of other reasons.  By far the most expensive new item I got for my dorm was my new desktop computer.  That was somewhere in the $2000 range including the 19" CRT monitor.  I got the Pentium II with 450Mhz clock speed, because I was fancy like that.  And the 2 GB EIDE hard drive.  And the 4X CD-RW drive.

 

I recall only 1-2 people having a desktop computer in their dorm room and nobody had a laptop because they barely existed.  Our campus had two computers connected to the internet.  One was in the library.  The librarian had to log you on and you got 20 minutes before it automatically logged you off.  The other computer was in an office in the university's main office.  I remember going there and bothering the secretary by telling her about the ridiculous posts on a music guestbook (guestbooks predated forums like Urban Ohio). 

 

 

 

Here's a documentary from Balarus on Ohio University and Athens, OH:

 

The main character in this documentary was a friend of mine when I was a student and just died earlier this month, likely from alcohol-related stuff, but I'm not sure because I haven't asked anyone who lives out there. 

 

 

 

saw this 😅

 

remember: the bible verses about a talking snake are literal, but the part about forgiving everyone’s debt is just a metaphor.

7 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

That would pretty much make every gender studies professor need to resign 

 

Ouch. 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

 

Ouch. 

 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/new-sokal-hoax/572212/

"Sokal went on to “disprove” his credo in fashionable jargon. “Feminist and poststructuralist critiques have demystified the substantive content of mainstream Western scientific practice, revealing the ideology of domination concealed behind the façade of ‘objectivity,’” he claimed. “It has thus become increasingly apparent that physical ‘reality,’ no less than social ‘reality,’ is at bottom a social and linguistic construct.”

 

1 hour ago, Lazarus said:

 

Ouch. 

 

 

Meh....puts it on the same footing as any religion.

The 18-year old freshman at Standford who wrote the investigative pieces has this pedigree:

Screenshot_2023-07-22_at_10.08.54_AM.png

 

Must be nice. 

  • 2 weeks later...

Social media, etc., is incentivizing professors to become celebrities with pop psychology, controversies generated by traps of their own design, etc.   

 

A behavioral sciences professor at Harvard University is now suing Harvard and others who outed falsified research:

https://www.science.org/content/article/honesty-researcher-facing-fraud-concerns-sues-harvard-and-accusers-25-million

 

The lawsuit is generating a fourth or fifth round of publicity for this spotlight-happy professor. 

‘I’m not wanted’: Florida universities hit by brain drain as academics flee | Florida | The Guardian

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/30/florida-universities-colleges-faculty-leaving-desantis

 

Maybe... a lot of these states with oppressive policies still tend to draw in a lot of population growth. Educated populations. Even/especially to Florida despite the evil behavior of its governor and much of its population.

 

So I wonder if this "brain drain" has any real teeth.

Women absolutely adore Miami. It's easy to ignore what's going on in the rest of the state there.

^ I lived in Miami 2002-2008. It barely felt like living in the US, never mind Florida. I’ve not been back since, but I can only imagine it’s got even more disconnected. 

My hovercraft is full of eels

  • 1 month later...
On 8/4/2023 at 11:34 AM, TBideon said:

‘I’m not wanted’: Florida universities hit by brain drain as academics flee | Florida | The Guardian

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/30/florida-universities-colleges-faculty-leaving-desantis

 

Maybe... a lot of these states with oppressive policies still tend to draw in a lot of population growth. Educated populations. Even/especially to Florida despite the evil behavior of its governor and much of its population.

 

So I wonder if this "brain drain" has any real teeth.

 

 

Academic jobs are so rare that the only people who can afford to walk away from one are from wealthy families. 

 

Speaking of which, in the aftermath of the Supreme Court's affirmative action ruling, NPR and The New York Times are back at it with their attacks on elite schools.  The whole issue is that there is a lot of bitterness on the East Coast by those who ended up at "safety schools" rather than at the Ivies, so they're looking to tear them down. 

 

Screenshot_2023-09-08_at_12.05.53_PM.png

 

It's like, in the Midwest, you hardly ever encounter anyone who went to Harvard, Yale, etc.  So you don't worry about it.  But in New York City, they're all over the place, and that's why losers in journalism can't stop obsessing over the issue. 

 

 

 

I don't see why white Republicans think taking race out of the equation helps them get their kids into Ivies. It made schools end legacy admissions (which are the main way white Republicans' kids got in) and removing the "maximum Asian percentage" in favor of meritocracy effectively means fewer white people and more Asians.

3 minutes ago, GCrites said:

I don't see why white Republicans think taking race out of the equation helps them get their kids into Ivies.

 

White Republicans appeal to the emotion of fear over logic and critical thinking. It's the entire ethos of MAGA, which also blends in with the country club racists.

17 minutes ago, GCrites said:

I don't see why white Republicans think taking race out of the equation helps them get their kids into Ivies. It made schools end legacy admissions (which are the main way white Republicans' kids got in) and removing the "maximum Asian percentage" in favor of meritocracy effectively means fewer white people and more Asians.

 

This isn't really true because what you're talking about is limited to the people who are groomed from a young age to take over family businesses (i.e. Mike Brown's granddaughters who went to Dartmouth like he and their mother did and who will take over the Cincinnati Bengals) or will work in finance or as lawyers.  The STEM people are a whole other crowd.  As we all know, there is almost no interaction between business/pre-law and science/engineering people on any college campus.  

So STEM is now not or was never subject to admissions rules to achieve a certain diversity standard, only the liberal arts?

21 minutes ago, GCrites said:

I don't see why white Republicans think taking race out of the equation helps them get their kids into Ivies. It made schools end legacy admissions (which are the main way white Republicans' kids got in) and removing the "maximum Asian percentage" in favor of meritocracy effectively means fewer white people and more Asians.

 

I do not believe that any judicial decision has yet forced elite (or other) schools to end legacy admissions.  I doubt there is a constitutional argument against that, though of course all kinds of statutory pressure could be brought to bear on that practice.

 

5 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

As we all know, there is almost no interaction between business/pre-law and science/engineering people on any college campus.  

 

How do we know this?  You might mean that there aren't going to be a whole lot of engineering majors taking business courses and vice versa, of course, that's what happens when you start to major in whatever will be your professional field.  But "interaction" in college goes far beyond the classroom, at least if you're doing it right.  Dorms, student organizations, intramural sports--there's plenty of other opportunity for "interaction."  I'm an attorney; the best man at my wedding was in aerospace engineering, I met him my freshman year in my dorm.

3 minutes ago, GCrites said:

So STEM is now not or was never subject to admissions rules to achieve a certain diversity standard, only the liberal arts?

 

I don't know, since I don't have any firsthand experience as a STEM student (never went through that admissions process) or as any sort of college administrator.  Sometimes you see the phrase steAm, which preposterously tries to add the fine arts to STEM.  The admissions process for the A programs has typically been audition/portfolio-based, or at least is is between freshman and sophomore year.  I am aware that there is now some attempt to do away with traditional blind auditions in classical music and to intentionally place black students in the top programs and even in top orchestras ahead of those who would beat them in a blind audition. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

 

I do not believe that any judicial decision has yet forced elite (or other) schools to end legacy admissions.  I doubt there is a constitutional argument against that, though of course all kinds of statutory pressure could be brought to bear on that practice.

 

 

How do we know this?  You might mean that there aren't going to be a whole lot of engineering majors taking business courses and vice versa, of course, that's what happens when you start to major in whatever will be your professional field.  But "interaction" in college goes far beyond the classroom, at least if you're doing it right.  Dorms, student organizations, intramural sports--there's plenty of other opportunity for "interaction."  I'm an attorney; the best man at my wedding was in aerospace engineering, I met him my freshman year in my dorm.

 

Some schools ended legacy admissions on their own, presumably because they didn't want to deal with it or perhaps more conspiratorially, ended them to spite the Republican party's anti-intellctualism.

 

Healthcare especially gets separated from the others since such a large portion of them are commuters.

3 hours ago, Lazarus said:

 

 

Academic jobs are so rare that the only people who can afford to walk away from one are from wealthy families. 

 

Speaking of which, in the aftermath of the Supreme Court's affirmative action ruling, NPR and The New York Times are back at it with their attacks on elite schools.  The whole issue is that there is a lot of bitterness on the East Coast by those who ended up at "safety schools" rather than at the Ivies, so they're looking to tear them down. 

 

Screenshot_2023-09-08_at_12.05.53_PM.png

 

It's like, in the Midwest, you hardly ever encounter anyone who went to Harvard, Yale, etc.  So you don't worry about it.  But in New York City, they're all over the place, and that's why losers in journalism can't stop obsessing over the issue. 

 

 

 

Wouldn't someone writing for the NPR or the NYT be the exact opposite of a loser in journalism?

  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/8/2023 at 4:09 PM, X said:

Wouldn't someone writing for the NPR or the NYT be the exact opposite of a loser in journalism?

 

NPR and the NY Times are turning into the higher-class liberal counterpoint to the NY Post.  Both have devolved in the past five years into wildly sensational operations.  

Not an outstanding video, but minute 9 is good.  The reporter zero's in on the trouble with flagship state universities - they're straying from their original mission and are seeking to compete with private schools for faculty, donors, and wealthy students:

 

The greater problem is that in states with many state universities like Ohio, we see The University of Cincinnati (essentially a local community college until the 1970s) pushing to compete directly with OSU in all respects, then other university systems (Ohio U, Bowling Green, Wright State) competing with the OSU/UC branch campuses. 

 

There is no central arbiter who coordinates competing state university systems, meaning there is competition not just between public/private and neighboring states, but within the states themselves. 

 

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

Not an outstanding video, but minute 9 is good.  The reporter zero's in on the trouble with flagship state universities - they're straying from their original mission and are seeking to compete with private schools for faculty, donors, and wealthy students:

 

The greater problem is that in states with many state universities like Ohio, we see The University of Cincinnati (essentially a local community college until the 1970s) pushing to compete directly with OSU in all respects, then other university systems (Ohio U, Bowling Green, Wright State) competing with the OSU/UC branch campuses. 

 

There is no central arbiter who coordinates competing state university systems, meaning there is competition not just between public/private and neighboring states, but within the states themselves. 

 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with the criticism of flagship state universities - they are and have been spending like mad for about 25 years to make up for dramatic declines in state support, bringing in out-of-state and international students, and "star" professors who bring in grants and graduate students.  However, UC was not a community college in any sense of the word, it has had excellent nationally-recognized programs for a very long time. It might have drawn mostly from Cincinnati, but that doesn't make it a community college.

 

Ohio, BGSU, Kent and Miami (the "Four Corners Universities") are also not competing with community colleges or branch campuses - they serve quite different audiences. OU was struggling for a while, but seems to have turned a corner; the other three are doing well. It's the former city colleges and lower-tier state universities that are struggling in the current environment - The Toledo, Akron, Wright State, and more rural state colleges have seen dramatic declines in enrollment. Community colleges have as well. Branch campuses are probably lower tier than those smaller state universities - they most frequently offer introductory courses and associate's degrees, and with College Credit Plus programs helping students graduate high school as college sophomores, there is less demand for branch campuses, especially the expansion of online courses after Covid. I anticipate we'll see more of them closing. 

 

Also, the state of Ohio quite strictly regulates, through the Ohio Department of Higher Education and the Chancellor of Higher Education, new academic programs across the state. Universities must demonstrate student and industry demand for new programs, and show they won't drain students away from existing state university programs. All state universities review new programs from each other and can stop new programs that they think duplicate their efforts - it happens quite frequently. They are the central arbiter, and it's quite a rigorous process to get a new program approved, which is why universities are usually reluctant to close programs. Private colleges are on their own; they are the ones who frequently start competing programs and drain students away from state universities, particularly with online programs. 

 

The shrinking number of US-born college age students, especially in the Rust Belt, means that more prestigious universities are soaking up students from each tier below it. OSU, Michigan, Penn State eased admission requirements during Covid and actually admitted more students during that time; then the second tier universities like the Four Corners did the same to maintain their enrollments, taking in students who would have gone to Toledo, Wright State or Youngstown, but there aren't many people that those third tier universities can draw from - community colleges also are dramatically down, so it's been a big soak from the top. Good for the students perhaps, attending higher-ranking universities, but very bad for the open-access state institutions in the stagnant urban areas around Ohio. 

 

Flagships, though, often arent competing with other state universities in Ohio (especially in Ohio, which has unwisely only invested on one flagship for a rather large population), so Ohio State has relatively free reign to start new programs that compete with other flagships, but not the Four Corners, urban universities, branch campuses or community colleges. Many large flagships are "state" universities in name only; they have traded very low state financial support for reduced state oversight, essentially privatizing, with predictable results. The running joke in higher education is that state universities are no longer state-supported, they are "state-located". 

1 hour ago, Lazarus said:

Not an outstanding video, but minute 9 is good.  The reporter zero's in on the trouble with flagship state universities - they're straying from their original mission and are seeking to compete with private schools for faculty, donors, and wealthy students:

 

The greater problem is that in states with many state universities like Ohio, we see The University of Cincinnati (essentially a local community college until the 1970s) pushing to compete directly with OSU in all respects, then other university systems (Ohio U, Bowling Green, Wright State) competing with the OSU/UC branch campuses. 

 

There is no central arbiter who coordinates competing state university systems, meaning there is competition not just between public/private and neighboring states, but within the states themselves. 

 

I don't think competition within the state itself is inherently unhealthy for the system as a whole, though of course I'm sure certain particular institutions would prefer to be insulated from it.

 

I watched minute 9 (and a minute or two after that), and the first question she gets asked is what should these universities that are going beyond their means cut, and she gives a somewhat evasive/generic answer, but she also notes that some of these schools are facing enormous budget deficits.  I'm not sure if she's talking about any particular university that might have been mentioned earlier in the video, but she at least isn't talking about Ohio's flagship state institution: OSU was projected to have an operating budget surplus in the neighborhood of $500 million: https://busfin.osu.edu/university-business/financial-planning-analysis/university-operating-budget.

 

As for state flagship universities "straying from their original mission and ... seeking to compete with private schools for faculty, donors, and wealthy students," it's misleading or at least not specific enough to say "private schools."  Harvard is a private school and Tiffin is a private school, but competing with one and competing with the other are rather different endeavors.  Separately, though, that horse escaped the barn so long ago that his great-grandchildren are ready for the Kentucky Derby by now, and the barn itself has long since been abandoned in a fallow field in Licking County and is about to be bulldozed for a server farm.  I was there at OSU in 2001 when the Ohio legislature removed the annual tuition increase caps (formerly maximum 6%  increase per year) and there were many years of 15-19% tuition increases, of course compounded.  I would very much like to see, and would have liked to have seen, OSU remain a primary pathway for first-in-family college matriculants.  But I fought that fight and lost, long enough ago now that the loss itself is old enough to drink, though it'll have to settle for the swanky new BW3 at Lane & High where the old dive nightclubs used to be rather than the hole-in-the-wall BW3 at East Woodruff that used to have $3.25 Long Islands and $0.25 wings on Tuesdays.

It will be interesting to see how AI will affect college enrollment. If AI makes it where only blue-collar jobs exist how much will that de-motivate prospective students?

1 hour ago, Gramarye said:

rather than the hole-in-the-wall BW3 at East Woodruff that used to have $3.25 Long Islands and $0.25 wings on Tuesdays.

 

You mean the original BW3's.

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

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