I'm pretty sure this doesn't include light-rail or streetcar, but it is a major rail transit expansion. They don't have the money to pay for this, but WMATA is developing a plan for what it wants THEN seeking a way to pay for it......

 

Friday, December 06, 2013

WMATA eyes big system expansion

Written by  Douglas John Bowen

 

Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA) unveiled a preliminary map of expanded Metrorail service Thursday, Dec. 5, 2013, costing $26 billion, that would push the rapid rail system into parts of the city – and suburban communties across the district border – currently not served.

 

The proposal envisions a new loop of the Yellow and Blue lines in downtown Washington, adding between eight and 10 new stations, notably including a station in Georgetown, located in the district's northwest corner.

 

Georgetown may have to wait until 2040, though, to see such a station, which would plug it into the Metrorail system roughly 64 years after the first portion of the system began revenue service.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/rapid-transit/wmata-eyes-big-system-expansion.html

Our DC streetcar finally makes it onto the tracks for testing!

 

 

Story and video from the Washingtonian here: http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/local-news/dcs-first-streetcar-in-50-years-is-finally-on-the-tracks-video.php#

 

Hopefully we'll be seeing this in Cincinnati in the near future...

Washington, DC Streetcar Construction Update

 

Cincinnati native and current College Park, MD (DC area) resident, I had an opportunity to visit the H Street Streetcar construction after work today. Luckily they were testing a vehicle, so I snapped a few shots with my phone (sorry for the subpar quality). I want to go back to get better photos soon and possibly visit the Anacostia Line (few miles away in SE), though I will only do that during daytime...

 

Streetcar rails & catenary at H & 4th Streets NE

 

Parked streetcar

 

Track stub for potential future extension is visible

 

H & 4th Street S NE Streetcar Stop

Curb extension to tracks is visible

 

Track inspections

 

Catenary crossover section. I am impressed by the lack of visual clutter from the overheads.

 

Under-construction Union Station stop

 

Here is an illustration of the construction area that I visited:

 

...and an article with more pictures and also video footage.

http://dcist.com/2013/12/photosvideo_the_streetcar_is_finall.php#photo-13

 

Hopefully we can see this sort of activity occur in Cincinnati in the upcoming years.

Nice!

 

And that pedestrian path is more than just to the Metro. It's also to VRE, MARC and Amtrak, including trains to Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo, etc. Yes, you can get there from here! :)

Nice!

 

And that pedestrian path is more than just to the Metro. It's also to VRE, MARC and Amtrak, including trains to Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo, etc. Yes, you can get there from here! :)

 

I once took Amtrak from DC to Cleveland. It only took 11 1/2 hours (it takes 6 to drive) and cost almost as much as a plane ride.

I once took Amtrak from DC to Cleveland. It only took 11 1/2 hours (it takes 6 to drive) and cost almost as much as a plane ride.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying or why. Are you saying you won't be using the train to get to Washington to ride the streetcar (and experience things along the way you would never experience while driving, flying or taking the bus)? If so, that's cool. You've just freed up a seat for me on the frequently sold-out trains through Cleveland.

Well, I live in Washington, and I haven't since used Amtrak to get back to Cleveland. Believe me, I wish service to the Mid-West was as frequent, fast, and reliable as it his going up the Northeast Corridor, but I can't justify spending that much money to get to my destination in double the time it takes to drive.

 

But anyways, I'm very happy to see our streetcar so close to being operational.

But anyways, I'm very happy to see our streetcar so close to being operational.

 

So you can pay money to ride something that's slower than a bicycle that's free to use? I'm not trying to be a d!ck (even though I probably am). I realize there are benefits to riding a streetcar even though it's slower and more expensive than riding a bike. I just don't understand why you are able to apply that appreciation of non-quantifiable benefits to one mode but not to another.

Quite simply really. And to be honest, I probably would be much more likely to use Captial Bikeshare to get down H St from Union Station than to use the streetcar. But 1) if it's raining, snowing, etc. I would be glad to have the option of the streetcar. 2) I'm glad the streetcar is there for people that don't want to or aren't capable of biking. The difference between a couple miles and a couple dollars in fare is significantly different from 300 miles and a couple hundred dollars in fare.

 

We're on the same team though, Ken. I wish I could take Amtrak all the time. I suppose my comment was misleading in that it insuitsted that I was arguing from a premise that I don't hold true.

^^Come on now KJP, give TPH2 a break, it's clear what he/she is saying. Appreciate the feedback from real users to push for improvements...change will not happen if we pretend it's all good. I used Amtrak once from Chicago to Cleveland and it was 3 hours late. I'll fly or take Megabus until real service improvements are made.

 

I am jealous of the new DC streetcar...it looks awesome!

Eh, I've taken the Cardinal from Ashland, KY down to Washington D.C. and while it was a scenic ride in the fall, it was 14 hours for a 11.5 hour train ride and about $180 round trip. Or a 6 hour, fairly leisurely drive on almost all rural highways. I drive to take the back roads and experience more of the state than I ever could on one rail line (my personal preference) - but I do appreciate the option of rail - if it was more feasible, timely and ran more than 3 days per week. Also in comparison, air service from Charleston, WV (near Ashland) to Washington D.C. is only 1.5 hours and $200 round trip. You don't need to take rail to see rail or experience it - parking in D.C., while plentiful, is expensive but if you park and take transit for the remainder of the day (especially from other cities, like Arlington), it's worth it.

^^Come on now KJP, give TPH2 a break, it's clear what he/she is saying. Appreciate the feedback from real users to push for improvements...change will not happen if we pretend it's all good. I used Amtrak once from Chicago to Cleveland and it was 3 hours late. I'll fly or take Megabus until real service improvements are made.

 

I am jealous of the new DC streetcar...it looks awesome!

 

I agree. While I most likely wont be taking rail to/from Cleveland regularly, if I were on the East Coast I would always take rail. The travel between New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington DC is actually worth taking. If I were to take the train from Cleveland it would be more of a one time experience thing, not as a regular form of transportation.

 

Too slow, too expensive, and terrible departure/arrival times!

Sorry guys, but you missed what I was doing. TPH2 introduced an off-topic comment, maybe even to mess with me a little. So I returned the favor. It's more fun that just advising "get back on topic."

 

Now get back on topic!

SEPTA announces ambitious capital-improvement plan

Paul Nussbaum, Inquirer Staff Writer

Last updated: Friday, December 20, 2013, 2:01 AM

Posted: Thursday, December 19, 2013, 6:00 PM

 

With new state funding on the way from the recently signed transportation law, SEPTA has switched from doomsday threats to promises of a grand restoration.

 

SEPTA will move quickly to replace aging vehicles and infrastructure, to keep trains and trolleys running on routes that had been threatened with extinction, deputy general manager Jeffrey Knueppel told the SEPTA board Thursday.

 

SEPTA hopes to double its annual spending for vehicle purchases and construction projects to $600 million within five years, Knueppel said. Currently, SEPTA's capital budget is about $300 million a year; increasing contributions from the state are expected to incrementally boost that amount each year.

 

"This is an extremely exciting time for us," Knueppel said Thursday, calling the planned projects "transformative" for the transit agency.

 

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/business/transportation/20131220_SEPTA_announces_ambitious_capital-improvement_plan.html#bfQl9SRXMpH0dus8.99

More than $80 billion in new transit projects!

 

Openings and Construction Starts Planned for 2014

Yonah Freemark

January 5th, 2014

 

Virtually every metropolitan region in the United States and Canada is investing millions of dollars in new transit expansion projects. The map and database available here provide an overview of all of the major rail and bus capital expansion projects either being completed in 2014 or to be under construction at some stage in 2014. They also include some major renovation projects of lines or stations.

 

Look back at the compilations of openings and construction starts from previous years for a refresher: 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | 2012 | 2013.

 

This year, dozens of new lines will open to the public, including light rail lines in Houston, Minneapolis, Edmonton, Dallas, Calgary; heavy rail lines in New York City and outside Washington; and streetcars in Tucson, Atlanta, Seattle, and Washington, among many others. Bus rapid transit — or some variety of it — will see its coming out, with new lines opening in Chicago, Fort Collins, San Diego, Orlando, Los Angeles, and outside Toronto.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2014/01/05/openings-and-construction-starts-planned-for-2014/

^^Come on now KJP, give TPH2 a break, it's clear what he/she is saying. Appreciate the feedback from real users to push for improvements...change will not happen if we pretend it's all good. I used Amtrak once from Chicago to Cleveland and it was 3 hours late. I'll fly or take Megabus until real service improvements are made.

 

I am jealous of the new DC streetcar...it looks awesome!

 

I agree. While I most likely wont be taking rail to/from Cleveland regularly, if I were on the East Coast I would always take rail. The travel between New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington DC is actually worth taking. If I were to take the train from Cleveland it would be more of a one time experience thing, not as a regular form of transportation.

 

Too slow, too expensive, and terrible departure/arrival times!

 

I took the Cardinal between Cincy and NYC a couple years back. 18 hour ride, turned out to be over 20 in reality. I got cabin fever. Not to mention leaving and arriving in Cincy in the middle of the night sucks.

 

It would be great if it took less time. The price was fine, and cheaper than a plane ticket. But, as someone who really hates driving, I'd rather drive for 10 hours, TYVM.

 

If I had money to burn, I would take the train and get a sleeper. Seems like that would alleviate a lot of the hassle, especially since I have trouble sleeping without lying down.

^^Come on now KJP, give TPH2 a break, it's clear what he/she is saying. Appreciate the feedback from real users to push for improvements...change will not happen if we pretend it's all good. I used Amtrak once from Chicago to Cleveland and it was 3 hours late. I'll fly or take Megabus until real service improvements are made.

 

I am jealous of the new DC streetcar...it looks awesome!

 

I agree. While I most likely wont be taking rail to/from Cleveland regularly, if I were on the East Coast I would always take rail. The travel between New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington DC is actually worth taking. If I were to take the train from Cleveland it would be more of a one time experience thing, not as a regular form of transportation.

 

Too slow, too expensive, and terrible departure/arrival times!

 

I took the Cardinal between Cincy and NYC a couple years back. 18 hour ride, turned out to be over 20 in reality. I got cabin fever. Not to mention leaving and arriving in Cincy in the middle of the night sucks.

 

It would be great if it took less time. The price was fine, and cheaper than a plane ticket. But, as someone who really hates driving, I'd rather drive for 10 hours, TYVM.

 

If I had money to burn, I would take the train and get a sleeper. Seems like that would alleviate a lot of the hassle, especially since I have trouble sleeping without lying down.

 

This is the price we pay for a lack of national, state and local commitment to public transportation, including intercity passenger rail. Not to sound preachy, but if you had a bad experience you need to talk to your elected officials and demand better. You also need to join All Aboard Ohio and the National Association of Railroad passengers and get involved. Nothing good will happen until you and others like you do.

Indiana legislature bans light rail! WTF??

 

Indy mass transit bill gets green light from committee

By Tony Cook, [email protected] 7:54 p.m. EST January 28, 2014

 

A state Senate committee approved a bill Tuesday that would allow for an expanded mass transit system in Central Indiana, but not without protests from Democrats and some business groups.

 

The Senate Tax and Fiscal Policy Committee voted 8-4 in favor of Senate Bill 176 after about an hour of testimony and an amendment that, among other things, would prevent light rail from being part of the expansion.

 

...An amendment brought forward by committee Chairman Brandt Hershman, R-Buck Creek, adds Hancock County to list of eligible counties, bans light rail, and prevents state funds from being used for any expansion. It also authorizes the Indiana Finance Authority to issue bonds on behalf of counties and strips organized labor of the ability to engage in binding arbitration.

 

Those changes outraged the committee’s four Democrats, who accused their GOP colleagues of helping Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard do an “end run” around the Democrat-controlled city-county council.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2014/01/28/indy-mass-transit-bill-gets-green-light-from-commtitee/4959679/

^Nice to see Indiana running head-long into the 1950s.

Indiana legislature bans light rail! WTF??

 

Waaaaat. Whoa. And I thought Indianapolis was going places, with their Cultural Trail and whatnot.

 

I imagine this will pass without much problem. Jeebus save us if Ohio tries to emulate this.

Posted on Tuesday, 01.28.14

TRANSPORTATION

Light rail service from Miami to Miami Beach under discussion again

A new study for light rail service from Miami to Miami Beach builds on a 2004 project known as Baylink that did not go anywhere.

BY ALFONSO CHARDY

[email protected]

 

Transportation planners have unveiled potential routes for a light rail link between Miami and Miami Beach with one line crossing Biscayne Bay over the MacArthur Causeway and another via the Julia Tuttle Causeway.

 

Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez and Miami Mayor Tomás Regalado said they prefer the rail go over the MacArthur Causeway, but Miami Beach transportation director José González said his city has not yet settled on a route.

 

“This is a vital project for Miami-Dade County as congestion between the mainland and Miami Beach grows worse,” Gimenez said. “We don’t want to talk about this for the next 20 years. We want to get this done.”

 

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/01/28/3899000/light-rail-service-from-miami.html#storylink=cpy

$80 million streetcar plan for Grand Rapids back in play

By Matt Vande Bunte | [email protected]

on February 04, 2014 at 7:15 AM, updated February 04, 2014 at 9:08 AM

 

GRAND RAPIDS, MI – Proponents of a downtown streetcar line are resurrecting a 6-year-old study and, by this summer, plan to revise the vision and pursue funding.

 

The Rapid public-transit system is paying HDR Inc. $293,895 to refine the 2008 study, updating what an electric streetcar line would cost and how the money could come together. An advisory committee started meeting last month.

 

“We’re going to build on that (2008 study),” said John Logie, a former Grand Rapids mayor who is chairman of the committee. “We think the timing is right. The economy is coming back.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/02/streetcar_plan_for_grand_rapid.html

Comparing the busiest US & UK light rail systems. The photos they chose are strange, starting with the heritage trolley in Instanbul, Turkey and not improving from there....

 

http://www.totalrail.org/2014/02/17/busiest-light-rail-systems-us-uk-2/#sthash.GnW5Zhn9.GdLEPUVZ.dpbs

THU FEB 27, 2014 AT 05:25 PM PST

Obama reversed Tom Delay's ban on Houston Light Rail

byLeftistSkepticFollowforLeftistSkeptic

 

In 2003, voters in the Harris County Metropolitan Transit Authority's (HCMTA) service area approved a referendum on the expansion of light rail.  Tom Delay intervened, and overrode the voters' choice.  Light rail expansion in Houston was blocked by the George W Bush administration for five years.  Suddenly, in 2009, the ban was lifted by the President's new FTA.  Every year, the FTA has sent the HCMTA at least $150 million for light rail expansion.  On December 20, 2013, the first new line, Northline-Houston Community College, went into service.  This year, two more light rail lines will open.

 

The suburbanites are complaining because HCMTA is concentrating on the democratic-majority Houston center city.  They want commuter light rail to their outlying areas but keep electing republicans who are adamantly opposed to rail expansion.  Somehow Houston suburbanites have not made the connection between whom they vote for and what kind of transportation they get.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/27/1280983/-Obama-reversed-Tom-Delay-s-ban-on-Houston-Light-Rail

Selling off real estate, updating Metro Rail

By Robert J. McCarthy | News Political Reporter

on February 27, 2014 - 8:26 PM, updated February 28, 2014 at 7:00 AM

 

There may have been no better way for transit commissioners to underscore their priorities Thursday than approving the sale of outer harbor lands to two state agencies, while also unveiling a massive new project to replace Metro Rail’s aging escalators.

 

The decisions amounted to a renewed emphasis on the transit agency’s “core” mission, according to officials of the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority, as they got out of the waterfront management business that hampered finances for almost 60 years.

 

“The NFTA has always promised the community it would do the right thing, and the bottom line is this was not part of our core responsibilities of transportation,” Commissioner Peter G. Demakos said of the sale of 354 waterfront acres to the state parks system and the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/downtown-waterfront/nfta-officials-surrender-real-estate-to-return-to-core-priorities-20140227

^NFTA's “See Something, Say Something” app is something RTA should look into, esp on the Red Line with their unmanned stations where there may be no transit cops around.

That Houston light rail line is built through an amazingly ugly and inauspicious area.

That Houston light rail line is built through an amazingly ugly and inauspicious area.

 

Let's see what it looks like in 30 years.

That Houston light rail line is built through an amazingly ugly and inauspicious area.

 

Let's see what it looks like in 30 years.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. There is a lot of vacant land and rundown single story buildings that are ripe for redevelopment.

 

Well the issue with Houston is that they are building several light rail lines right now, meaning whatever redevelopment they attract will be uneven. Also, the Houston area, like Los Angles, is simply so gigantic that rail lines of this type will be limited in their ability to truly transform the metro. What Houston does have is about a half-dozen very large and very dense "midtown" areas, several of which are as large or larger than any of the 3C's downtowns.  For example, the Texas Medical Center, which is served by Houston's first light rail line, has 106,000 workers.  That's significantly more than DT Cincinnati and might be twice as many as DT Columbus.

Well the issue with Houston is that they are building several light rail lines right now, meaning whatever redevelopment they attract will be uneven. Also, the Houston area, like Los Angles, is simply so gigantic that rail lines of this type will be limited in their ability to truly transform the metro. What Houston does have is about a half-dozen very large and very dense "midtown" areas, several of which are as large or larger than any of the 3C's downtowns.  For example, the Texas Medical Center, which is served by Houston's first light rail line, has 106,000 workers.  That's significantly more than DT Cincinnati and might be twice as many as DT Columbus.

 

I disagree on certain points.  They want several lines, but on one is operation and two are opening.  Those two will be like the shaker rapid and share track.

 

Houston doesn't have a half dozen places with larger working populations than downtown Cleveland.  IIRC, Cleveland has 109k people working downtown on a daily basis.  Cleveland also has a large number of people working in University Circle/Fairfax/Hough.

 

Having friends that live on a corner with a Red Line stop they don't understand the building of the new lines and are not in favor of wasting the money as Houston is car dependent and the street car will not change that.  They've informed me that many people feel like the trolley is a waste.  Not an extensive study nor to be taken as the gospel, just passing on what they think.

Well the issue with Houston is that they are building several light rail lines right now, meaning whatever redevelopment they attract will be uneven. Also, the Houston area, like Los Angles, is simply so gigantic that rail lines of this type will be limited in their ability to truly transform the metro. What Houston does have is about a half-dozen very large and very dense "midtown" areas, several of which are as large or larger than any of the 3C's downtowns.  For example, the Texas Medical Center, which is served by Houston's first light rail line, has 106,000 workers.  That's significantly more than DT Cincinnati and might be twice as many as DT Columbus.

 

I disagree on certain points.  They want several lines, but on one is operation and two are opening.  Those two will be like the shaker rapid and share track.

 

Houston doesn't have a half dozen places with larger working populations than downtown Cleveland.  IIRC, Cleveland has 109k people working downtown on a daily basis.  Cleveland also has a large number of people working in University Circle/Fairfax/Hough.

 

Having friends that live on a corner with a Red Line stop they don't understand the building of the new lines and are not in favor of wasting the money as Houston is car dependent and the street car will not change that.  They've informed me that many people feel like the trolley is a waste.  Not an extensive study nor to be taken as the gospel, just passing on what they think.

 

You can't reach everyone with a rail line, and you can't reach everyone to get them to ride. But you can make important steps forward to change a city that was considered hopeless from urbanist's perspective. Fact is, Houston is making large steps forward by building multiple rail lines and the ridership on those lines are above projections. One step at a time.

Well the issue with Houston is that they are building several light rail lines right now, meaning whatever redevelopment they attract will be uneven. Also, the Houston area, like Los Angles, is simply so gigantic that rail lines of this type will be limited in their ability to truly transform the metro. What Houston does have is about a half-dozen very large and very dense "midtown" areas, several of which are as large or larger than any of the 3C's downtowns.  For example, the Texas Medical Center, which is served by Houston's first light rail line, has 106,000 workers.  That's significantly more than DT Cincinnati and might be twice as many as DT Columbus.

 

I disagree on certain points.  They want several lines, but on one is operation and two are opening.  Those two will be like the shaker rapid and share track.

 

Houston doesn't have a half dozen places with larger working populations than downtown Cleveland.  IIRC, Cleveland has 109k people working downtown on a daily basis.  Cleveland also has a large number of people working in University Circle/Fairfax/Hough.

 

Having friends that live on a corner with a Red Line stop they don't understand the building of the new lines and are not in favor of wasting the money as Houston is car dependent and the street car will not change that.  They've informed me that many people feel like the trolley is a waste.  Not an extensive study nor to be taken as the gospel, just passing on what they think.

 

You can't reach everyone with a rail line, and you can't reach everyone to get them to ride. But you can make important steps forward to change a city that was considered hopeless from urbanist's perspective. Fact is, Houston is making large steps forward by building multiple rail lines and the ridership on those lines are above projections. One step at a time.

 

I do not disagree.  Hell there are people that live in my building and drive downtown and you cannot get any closer to a train stop in Cleveland, even Tower City.  I think it makes no sense, but hey.

I just do not like LRT street-level transit malls in downtown areas; the result of cities unable to muster the political will to grade separate their rail lines in the downtown area.  While Houston may be making progress in extending rail, this is a major weakness in their network and why the LA Metro, with its LRT downtown tunnels and elevated sections, is necessarily superior to Houston's and Dallas' LRT systems.

I just do not like LRT street-level transit malls in downtown areas; the result of cities unable to muster the political will to grade separate their rail lines in the downtown area.  While Houston may be making progress in extending rail, this is a major weakness in their network and why the LA Metro, with its LRT downtown tunnels and elevated sections, is necessarily superior to Houston's and Dallas' LRT systems.

 

Thats a stretch!  I often agree with many things you say, but come on!

Well the issue with Houston is that they are building several light rail lines right now, meaning whatever redevelopment they attract will be uneven. Also, the Houston area, like Los Angles, is simply so gigantic that rail lines of this type will be limited in their ability to truly transform the metro. What Houston does have is about a half-dozen very large and very dense "midtown" areas, several of which are as large or larger than any of the 3C's downtowns.  For example, the Texas Medical Center, which is served by Houston's first light rail line, has 106,000 workers.  That's significantly more than DT Cincinnati and might be twice as many as DT Columbus.

 

I disagree on certain points.  They want several lines, but on one is operation and two are opening.  Those two will be like the shaker rapid and share track.

 

Houston doesn't have a half dozen places with larger working populations than downtown Cleveland.  IIRC, Cleveland has 109k people working downtown on a daily basis.  Cleveland also has a large number of people working in University Circle/Fairfax/Hough.

 

Having friends that live on a corner with a Red Line stop they don't understand the building of the new lines and are not in favor of wasting the money as Houston is car dependent and the street car will not change that.  They've informed me that many people feel like the trolley is a waste.  Not an extensive study nor to be taken as the gospel, just passing on what they think.

 

Sorry I'm not an expert on Cleveland's stats, and I'm not sure what precise area is considered "Downtown Cleveland".  However, the various midtowns around Houston are very, very big.  This "midtown" has an office tower approximately the same height and with the same rentable floor space as Key Tower, and it's 6 miles from DT Houston.  Also a 375-store mall, one of the largest in the country.  Not sure how many workers, but obviously a very active area as well. 

 

I imagine that part of the problem with building a rapid transit system in Houston is that different factions control key properties around the region, and suburban interests might perceive a Washington Metro or BART-type system as giving downtown too much of an advantage, especially if downtown business interests can block its extension to specific suburban areas. 

 

 

 

 

^Uptown Houston has around 55,000 office workers and I'm sure +100,000 more visitors/shoppers.  It's office space is the equivalent to a downtown Denver or a downtown Pittsburgh.

I just do not like LRT street-level transit malls in downtown areas; the result of cities unable to muster the political will to grade separate their rail lines in the downtown area.  While Houston may be making progress in extending rail, this is a major weakness in their network and why the LA Metro, with its LRT downtown tunnels and elevated sections, is necessarily superior to Houston's and Dallas' LRT systems.

 

Thats a stretch!  I often agree with many things you say, but come on!

 

What else could it be?  It's political compromise.  Isn't that what happened here when we rejected Dual Hub and settled for not-so-cheap, not-so-fast BRT?  When you're spending that kind of money, I say do it right but too much of a city's future development rides on the decision... When it comes to urban highways and freeways, it's always build, build, build!  and let the taxpayer be damned... For transit, the Holy Grail is... let's save money!

There is nothing stopping a city/metro from taxing itself to build a true subway, however there is no guarantee that you will receive any federal money.  It's been the case since the 1980s that the federal grants are oriented toward light rail, that's why light rail has proliferated. 

 

So we've been in a situation where cities can either pay half~ the capital cost to build light rail lines or they can pay the full cost of building fully grade-separated rapid transit.  The only big system that was paid for entirely by its locality was BART (however the transbay tube was paid for with excess Bay Bridge toll revenue and federal funding was awarded just as the initial segments of BART were being finished).  More recently the #7 extension in New York and the Clayton light rail extension in St. Louis (which includes a subway section) were paid for entirely outside the federal process. 

Well the issue with Houston is that they are building several light rail lines right now, meaning whatever redevelopment they attract will be uneven. Also, the Houston area, like Los Angles, is simply so gigantic that rail lines of this type will be limited in their ability to truly transform the metro. What Houston does have is about a half-dozen very large and very dense "midtown" areas, several of which are as large or larger than any of the 3C's downtowns.  For example, the Texas Medical Center, which is served by Houston's first light rail line, has 106,000 workers.  That's significantly more than DT Cincinnati and might be twice as many as DT Columbus.

 

I disagree on certain points.  They want several lines, but on one is operation and two are opening.  Those two will be like the shaker rapid and share track.

 

Houston doesn't have a half dozen places with larger working populations than downtown Cleveland.  IIRC, Cleveland has 109k people working downtown on a daily basis.  Cleveland also has a large number of people working in University Circle/Fairfax/Hough.

 

Having friends that live on a corner with a Red Line stop they don't understand the building of the new lines and are not in favor of wasting the money as Houston is car dependent and the street car will not change that.  They've informed me that many people feel like the trolley is a waste.  Not an extensive study nor to be taken as the gospel, just passing on what they think.

 

Sorry I'm not an expert on Cleveland's stats, and I'm not sure what precise area is considered "Downtown Cleveland".  However, the various midtowns around Houston are very, very big.  This "midtown" has an office tower approximately the same height and with the same rentable floor space as Key Tower, and it's 6 miles from DT Houston.  Also a 375-store mall, one of the largest in the country.  Not sure how many workers, but obviously a very active area as well. 

nrgksU1R8yg

 

I imagine that part of the problem with building a rapid transit system in Houston is that different factions control key properties around the region, and suburban interests might perceive a Washington Metro or BART-type system as giving downtown too much of an advantage, especially if downtown business interests can block its extension to specific suburban areas. 

 

 

 

 

 

And apparently you do not know Houston either!  Hey I had to go there, but that the beauty of UO, you learn something everyday!  Have you been to Houston?

 

As CDM states, that is the Uptown Area.  The main driver of this area is The Galleria mall.  It's one of the top ten mall in the US, based on size, square feet and number stores.  It is FAB-U-LOUS!!!  Its a shopaholics paradise!  Although it may state is 6 miles from Downtown Houston, due to traffic it might as well be 60 miles from downtown Houston.  I had staff in Houston and pretty familiar with the area.  Houston, like Atlanta, Charlotte, Dallas, Miami & Memphis is flat and sprawling and circled by freeways.

 

Uptown Houston, is the "Beverly Hills" of Houston, like Buckhead in ATL; when white flight happened in Houston, this area was developed and in the 80s and 90s crippled downtown Houston development as "Uptown" was the place to eat, shop, party, visit and live.  IIRC, Uptown at one point had 70/75% of all Houston hotels in it's borders. In addition, "the Oaks", River and Afton, two very upscale communities, border Uptown.  Think Cleveland Heights in the city limits. 

I just do not like LRT street-level transit malls in downtown areas; the result of cities unable to muster the political will to grade separate their rail lines in the downtown area.  While Houston may be making progress in extending rail, this is a major weakness in their network and why the LA Metro, with its LRT downtown tunnels and elevated sections, is necessarily superior to Houston's and Dallas' LRT systems.

 

Thats a stretch!  I often agree with many things you say, but come on!

 

What else could it be?  It's political compromise.  Isn't that what happened here when we rejected Dual Hub and settled for not-so-cheap, not-so-fast BRT?  When you're spending that kind of money, I say do it right but too much of a city's future development rides on the decision... When it comes to urban highways and freeways, it's always build, build, build!  and let the taxpayer be damned... For transit, the Holy Grail is... let's save money!

 

Look at when these cities developed and how republican they are.

 

Like my friends there, they think public transportation is for the poor and under privileged.  Why should they ride a bus or train with the unwashed masses, that cannot afford a mid luxury or better vehicle.  The regional mentality is why spend for the "have nots"?

>Have you been to Houston?

 

Yes I've been there, I had a friend who went to Rice who I visited twice.  The most recent time was right before Enron Field opened, so around 2000.  I remember they were wrapping up construction and I watched them test that silly steam engine from the outside parking lot.  They hadn't started working on the first light rail line yet and whatever the big stadium is next to the Astrodome is wasn't there yet.  I remember we drove past the Galleria but didn't go in.  There were huge chrome rings hanging over the intersections.  We went to the art museum which was in my opinion a very attractive modern building. 

>Have you been to Houston?

 

Yes I've been there, I had a friend who went to Rice who I visited twice.  The most recent time was right before Enron Field opened, so around 2000.  I remember they were wrapping up construction and I watched them test that silly steam engine from the outside parking lot.  They hadn't started working on the first light rail line yet and whatever the big stadium is next to the Astrodome is wasn't there yet.  I remember we drove past the Galleria but didn't go in.  There were huge chrome rings hanging over the intersections.  We went to the art museum which was in my opinion a very attractive modern building. 

 

Reliant Stadium.  The chrome rings are apart of public art all over the Galleria area.  My friends who live in Houston live near Herman Park.

I just do not like LRT street-level transit malls in downtown areas; the result of cities unable to muster the political will to grade separate their rail lines in the downtown area.  While Houston may be making progress in extending rail, this is a major weakness in their network and why the LA Metro, with its LRT downtown tunnels and elevated sections, is necessarily superior to Houston's and Dallas' LRT systems.

 

But LA built its subways in a different era, when more federal funding and 80/20 federal/local funding shares were prevalent. Because LA developed a more extensive rail system before Houston even got its first line, there was a stronger political constituency in the region for rail and for adding the second downtown subway in LA using mostly local funding. Houston may someday get to that point, but it's not there yet. Remember, the growth and improvement of rail systems are the result of long-term evolution, not short-term revolution.

^That's a good point and has probably effected a number of cities... But I still do believe some cities have more political drive and determination to get stuff, like grade-separated ROW done.  Keep in mind, L.A. built the short Blue Line segment to the Red/Purple Line (7th & Flower) Metro Center connection, but failed to continue the northward look over to Union Station because of costs, even back in the more favorable early 90s.... Recently though, they green lighted the so-called 'Regional Connector' to basically finish the job left undone which will now carry the Blue and Expo Lines through the previously-planned tunnel to connect wth the Gold Line and Union Station (with, I believe, the Expo Line branching south along the Gold Line toward East L.A)... Also, LA is building momentum toward extending the Purple Line stub westward toward Pacific coast and Santa Monica ... at least reaching the Beverly Hills and Westwood where there's a major medical complex IIRC ... 

 

... so that even in tougher economic times, with the less favorable FTA match, L.A. is extending its subway lines, ... including the aforementioned Heavy Rail Purple line -- and as you know, it's almost unthinkable these days to extend heavy rail in subways outside of NYC (and even there it's challenging)... So even though it may be tough sledding, for some determined cities, as they say: if there's a will, there's a way...

 

Denver, which is a (somewhat growing) Cleveland-size metro area is another example... Although they haven't built subways, they are builiding a grade-separated entry for the bulk of their LRT and electrified commuter rail into a newly-depressed Union Station ROW (with the innovative "Eagle" P3 financing arrangement which, I'm assuming, get's them around the more paltry FTA 50/50 split/match), -- a physical arrangement that is not-so-disimilar to what the Vans did with the east-west depressed (and elevated) ROW into Tower City in the 1920s.... I do recognize, though, that Denver, like Cleveland, was unable to get done a tunnel under its very dense Colfax/East corridor and does have a small portion of the LRT network running along the surface downtown -- Still, I can live with that small-portion downtown street running, since most of Denver's network is/will entered downtown via grade-separated ROWs.

Look at when these cities developed and how republican they are.

 

Like my friends there, they think public transportation is for the poor and under privileged.  Why should they ride a bus or train with the unwashed masses, that cannot afford a mid luxury or better vehicle.  The regional mentality is why spend for the "have nots"?

 

I hear you, but remember, Cleveland rejected Dual Hub in the late 1990s, when we had a Democrat in the WH (a Lewinsky-ed Dem, but a Dem nonetheless).  ... Then we ran our more progressive transit chief out of town, as I understand, largely b/c of his 'extravagance' in pushing Dual Hub and we got, actually sought out,. Joe C ...  A horrible trade imho, but whatareugonnado? … Point being: this episode is more reflective of Cleveland's political will towards transit (or more correctly, lack thereof) rather than the ability/non-ability to receive federal matching funds.

 

Denver's intial LRT was a dink, 7-mile route include street-running downtown. If that's as far as they got, we'd all be laughing at Denver's futile attempt at rail transit. But they didn't build that line with the intention of ending there. They built it because they could, and they felt confident it would "reverse the apathy" toward rail. Once you get one line, people start saying "me too." The best way to build a network is to build what you can, when you can. It's an over-used cliche, but "the enemy of the good is the perfect." You can never achieve perfection, but you can always take steps toward it. And the hardest one is always the first.

Look at when these cities developed and how republican they are.

 

Like my friends there, they think public transportation is for the poor and under privileged.  Why should they ride a bus or train with the unwashed masses, that cannot afford a mid luxury or better vehicle.  The regional mentality is why spend for the "have nots"?

 

I hear you, but remember, Cleveland rejected Dual Hub in the late 1990s, when we had a Democrat in the WH (a Lewinsky-ed Dem, but a Dem nonetheless).  ... Then we ran our more progressive transit chief out of town, as I understand, largely b/c of his 'extravagance' in pushing Dual Hub and we got, actually sought out,. Joe C ...  A horrible trade imho, but whatareugonnado? … Point being: this episode is more reflective of Cleveland's political will towards transit (or more correctly, lack thereof) rather than the ability/non-ability to receive federal matching funds.

 

 

Don't be over dramatic.  You and I know that is hearsay.  Why is this all on Clevelands Lap?  The county and region also need to be better educated on the uses of public transportation.

Rochester had a very slick, electrified heavy-rail line much like Cleveland's Red Line. And Rochester's entered downtown on the lower level of a roadway bridge across the Genesee River, much like our streetcars did on the lower level of the Detroit-Superior Bridge. This is looking west across the bridge in Rochester......

 

The Atlantic Cities ‏@AtlanticCities  3m

In the heart of downtown Rochester sit the remains of the city's "subway" http://bit.ly/1nKKh6g  pic.twitter.com/ohoo7TE1LE

 

What was.......

 

 

 

^Wow, what a nice system and what a shame it went to waste. It just shows what some cities could, and did, do to develop a full-scale rapid transit system ... even as small as Rochester.  The fact this used and drained an unused canal reminds me of Cincinnati’s failed project, although unlike Cincy, Rochester actually saw their subway to term ... only to throw away just 3 decades later ... by Republicans, if memory serves from an article I once read.  And also like Cincy, the powers that be built a freeway on top of part of the ROW.  Damn shame…