Wow...I had no idea.  That's why this forum is so great.

 

Sounds a bit dramatic.  CMH is crushing past ridership records and is considering accelerating the plan to expand the airport.  Record ridership numbers also indicate that people who don't normally fly are the ones making up Skybus' clientele.  Like you said, business travelers aren't the ones flying on Skybus. 

 

If you were to argue that they are hurting the economy by allowing Columbusites to become more mobile and thus spending their dollars in other cities rather than allowing them to circulate in the local economy, I might agree with you.

 

It sucks if your company is getting hurt by this effect, but maybe they need to tighten thier belts a little further and compete.  This isn't like Walmart forcing out mom and pop stores and killing culture.  Skybus is offering a stripped down product at stripped down costs, and the model seems to be working here like it has in Europe.

 

And hey...I'm enjoying having them in town.  After seeing San Diego for $10, I'll be off to San Francisco for $50 next week.

CMH is crushing past ridership records and is considering accelerating the plan to expand the airport.  Record ridership numbers also indicate that people who don't normally fly are the ones making up Skybus' clientele.

 

Skybus isn't the only one that is/was increasing passenger numbers in Columbus. If you look at the months before Skybus started operation, CMH was already on the way to breaking passenger records thanks to incumbent low cost carriers jetBlue and Southwest that were expanding in Columbus. New and upgraded service by several other airlines, such as Midwest Airlines and Delta were also helping our numbers. Skybus came in during the summer, a traditionally heavy travel period regardless, the key is during the fall and part of the winter months. Columbus is/was already somewhat of a marginal route for some carriers, and with Skybus' presence, they have cut for the leaner fall and part of winter travel months already, with possibly more on the way.

 

If you were to argue that they are hurting the economy by allowing Columbusites to become more mobile and thus spending their dollars in other cities rather than allowing them to circulate in the local economy, I might agree with you.

 

But Skybus is doing very little to increase business awareness of Columbus nationwide. Take a look at the Continental expanding in Cleveland thread to get a good idea of what having a real airline build and establish an operation in a city. Granted, Columbus will never be a major hub the likes of CLE or CVG, but there is no reason CMH has to lag behind in air service quality and quantity when compared to Raleigh-Durham, Indianapolis, Austin, and Kansas City, all of which have air service levels much higher than Columbus on carriers that foster business expansion and connectivity to other large markets, not St. Augustine and Portsmouth.

CMH is crushing past ridership records and is considering accelerating the plan to expand the airport.  Record ridership numbers also indicate that people who don't normally fly are the ones making up Skybus' clientele.

 

Skybus isn't the only one that is/was increasing passenger numbers in Columbus. If you look at the months before Skybus started operation, CMH was already on the way to breaking passenger records thanks to incumbent low cost carriers jetBlue and Southwest that were expanding in Columbus. New and upgraded service by several other airlines, such as Midwest Airlines and Delta were also helping our numbers. Skybus came in during the summer, a traditionally heavy travel period regardless, the key is during the fall and part of the winter months.

 

According to this release in July 2007, CMH experienced an increase of 23% over July 2006!!!  http://www.columbusairports.com/news/press/release.asp?PID=265

 

They're expriencing a 13% year to date increase, so your "Skybus came during the summer" argument is working against you.  If you want to make the claim that this was because of JetBlue and Southwest, you're gonna have to get some data on your side.  We were averaging 7-10% year over year increases before Skybus came around.

 

If you were to argue that they are hurting the economy by allowing Columbusites to become more mobile and thus spending their dollars in other cities rather than allowing them to circulate in the local economy, I might agree with you.

 

But Skybus is doing very little to increase business awareness of Columbus nationwide. Take a look at the Continental expanding in Cleveland thread to get a good idea of what having a real airline build and establish an operation in a city.

No offense to Clevelanders (I am a former one), but I don't know how far you'll get pinning your argument on the economic vibrancy of Cleveland.

 

Granted, Columbus will never be a major hub the likes of CLE or CVG, but there is no reason CMH has to lag behind in air service quality and quantity when compared to Raleigh-Durham, Indianapolis, Austin, and Kansas City, all of which have air service levels much higher than Columbus on carriers that foster business expansion and connectivity to other large markets, not St. Augustine and Portsmouth.

 

1) Why won't ever Columbus be a major hub?  Just because Continental and Delta have hubs nearby? 

 

2) You're still missing the point.  Skybus is NOT aimed at business travelers.  Officials have even said that they're business model is built around people who don't normally fly, or have no reason to fly from A to B except for a cheap fare.  Just b/c they're not aimed at business travelers doesn't mean they are a "cancer" on our local economy.

Taking to the skies on a tight schedule:

Quick turnarounds, point-to-point flights help Skybus get the most mileage out of its fleet

Sunday,  September 16, 2007

By Marla Matzer Rose, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

It's not hard for the boss of the fifth-largest and fastest-growing airline at Port Columbus to count the number of planes in his fleet.  He can do it on one hand.  Five planes are all it takes for Skybus Airlines to offer 14 departures to 11 cities from Port Columbus a day, a schedule that's attracting more than 80,000 passengers a month.  While the fact might be hard to believe, airline officials say operating lean is a way to keep costs to a minimum.

 

"Airplanes don't make money sitting on the ground," said Bill Diffenderffer, Skybus' CEO. "The only way an airplane makes money is when it's in the air, flying in a straight line to its destination."

 

Skybus serves most cities with once-daily flights. However, Fort Lauderdale, Fla., Burbank, Calif. (serving Los Angeles), and Portsmouth, N.H., (serving Boston) have two flights per day. That brings the number of daily one-way trips to 28.  As Skybus adds destinations in the coming weeks, it plans to continue flying with as few planes as possible.

 

 

MORE: http://www.dispatch.com

According to this release in July 2007, CMH experienced an increase of 23% over July 2006!!!  http://www.columbusairports.com/news/press/release.asp?PID=265

 

They're expriencing a 13% year to date increase, so your "Skybus came during the summer" argument is working against you.  If you want to make the claim that this was because of JetBlue and Southwest, you're gonna have to get some data on your side.  We were averaging 7-10% year over year increases before Skybus came around.

 

Again, like I already said, look at past months this year to see that passenger loads were breaking records before Skybus' arrival. This past March set an all-time record for CMH, 2 months before Skybus initiated service:

 

04-23-2007

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

print friendly version

 

Busiest First Quarter in Port Columbus History

 

COLUMBUS – Port Columbus International Airport experienced an 8.3 percent increase in passengers over March 2006 to set a new record for the month and conclude the busiest first quarter in the history of the airport.

 

Over 634,000 passengers used Port Columbus in March 2007 compared to the 585,874 passengers in March 2006. Year-to-date numbers reflect a 9.6 percent increase over the same time period in 2006 with over 1.65 million passengers using Port Columbus in 2007.

 

http://www.columbusairports.com/news/press/release.asp?PID=246

 

The introduction of Skybus has merely inflated passenger numbers to a now unsustainable level. What we will likely see now is other airlines cutting service due to the loss of passengers to Skybus.

 

No offense to Clevelanders (I am a former one), but I don't know how far you'll get pinning your argument on the economic vibrancy of Cleveland.

 

My use of Cleveland as an example has to do with how good air connectivity increases the economic prospects of a region. If you don't like the use of Cleveland as an example, we can use Charlotte. A major reason for Bank of America's decision to located their headquarters in Charlotte was due to USAirways' hub at CLT. Or how about Cincinnati, where a recent analysis showed that Delta's hub operation in CVG is worth billions of dollars to the region, despite the airport having among the highest air fares in the nation. Having an airline that can fly you to Chicopee for $20 means squat compared to having an airline that can fly you multiple times a day to every major market in the northeast.

 

1) Why won't ever Columbus be a major hub?  Just because Continental and Delta have hubs nearby? 

 

Exactly right. This region became overhubbed in the 90s, and we've since seen the scaling back and closing of several hubs, including America West's former hub here in Columbus.

 

2) You're still missing the point.  Skybus is NOT aimed at business travelers.  Officials have even said that they're business model is built around people who don't normally fly, or have no reason to fly from A to B except for a cheap fare.  Just b/c they're not aimed at business travelers doesn't mean they are a "cancer" on our local economy.

 

What you fail to realize is that Columbus could have easily have had the best of both worlds, low fare service to major destinations across the U.S. Instead, we've invested millions into a flying cattle car that doesn't take you to where you want to go and nickle-and-dimes you every step of the way. If you know about Ryannair, most Europeans regard it as "the airline people love to hate." That's not the kind of business I want to see representing Columbus. If this cancer continues to spread, I see an overall complete degredation of the air travel market out of here, as the rest of our local carriers leave or downsize the market.

Also, the yellow journalism by the Dispatch regarding Skybus has me seeing red. I have never seen so much free advertising for a company in a daily rag before.

 

It's not hard for the boss of the fifth-largest and fastest-growing airline at Port Columbus to count the number of planes in his fleet.  He can do it on one hand.  Five planes are all it takes for Skybus Airlines to offer 14 departures to 11 cities from Port Columbus a day, a schedule that's attracting more than 80,000 passengers a month.  While the fact might be hard to believe, airline officials say operating lean is a way to keep costs to a minimum.

 

Gag me with a friggin' spoon. Ms. Rose treats Skybus like they invented this concept. In reality, Southwest was the one that pioneered the concept of high utilization rates through their "10 minute turn-arounds" back in the 70s. Other airlines have since adopted this concept to increase to cut costs and increase productivity. And 14 daily departures to 11 cities with 5 aircraft is nothing incredible and is actually a quite poor use of their aircraft. In a high utilization route structure, block times should be no more than 2 hours or so, to get the maximum use out of the aircraft on many routes. By flying several west coast jaunts, Skybus severely cramps their utilization rates.

 

This means several daily flights leave Columbus before 7 a.m. while others return after 1 a.m. -- assuming small delays throughout the day haven't pushed back that arrival time until 2 a.m. or later.

 

...which is an almost daily occurance. I've seen their last bank of flights all come in together at 2 A.M., creating organized chaos on their ramp and 30+ minute waits in baggage claim because they don't have enough staff to work all the aircraft at once. And this is during the summer. I shudder to think what will happen when the airline faces winter ops.

 

In early August, for example, a Skybus plane that was to make the trip to Oakland, Calif., was grounded for hours for a maintenance check. To get the Oakland-bound passengers to their destination, after cooling their heels for about five hours in the airport, Skybus had to pull another of its five planes and cancel four later flights in and out of other cities.

 

Or how about the evening Portsmouth flight that never made it? The plane ended up diverting to Hartford, sat on the ramp for hours, then flew back to Columbus, arriving at around 5 A.M. Or how about last week when a flight couldn't get into Bellingham and diverted to Boeing Field? It caused a ripple-effect through the entire day, resulting in the last Ft. Lauderdale flight getting in a little before 5 A.M.

 

"Airlines cancel flights. That happens," Vasey said.

 

That attitude is terrible. What Mr. Vasey fails to mention is that when Skybus cancels a flight, you are sh!t out of luck. Skybus cannot reaccomodate you on any other carrier, and when most flights are operated once daily, chances are likely you won't be leaving until the next day, assuming there are seats available. And don't think you can call a 1-800 number or turn to a "Skybus" (they're all outsourced to DGS) agent for rebooking, that has to be done either through a kiosk or by pulling out your laptop.

 

Yup, we're lucky to have this farse of an airline around...

 

 

Four new cities will be announced tomorrow:

 

Chattanooga, TN (Atlanta)

Punta Gorda, FL (Ft. Myers/Sarasota)

Milwaukee, WI (Chicago)

Gulfport/Biloxi, MS (New Orleans/Pensacola)

Right you are CMH - here's today's Dispatch article . . .

 

Skybus to add 4 cities, 2 planes in December

Thursday,  September 20, 2007 3:38 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Starting today, Columbus travelers bound for Atlanta, New Orleans and Fort Myers, Fla., will have a chance to book tickets costing as little as $10 on Skybus Airlines.  In keeping with Skybus' penchant for flying to cheaper and less crowded airports, those flights will actually land in Chattanooga, Tenn.; Biloxi, Miss.; and Punta Gorda, Fla.

 

Read more at http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2007/09/20/airport_skybus.ART_ART_09-20-07_C10_147V4LU.html?sid=101

Skybus now fourth-largest flier from Port Columbus

 

August numbers from the Columbus Regional Airport Authority.

 

Southwest - 150,956 passengers (20.9% market share)

Delta - 107,588 passengers

US Airways - 96,076 passengers

Skybus -  94,708 passengers

American - 86,980 passengers

 

 

 

3 of 5 West Coast flights cut

Service south added; spring tickets on sale today

Tuesday,  October 16, 2007 3:25 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Skybus Airlines is adding some service today and taking some away.

 

As it puts a new batch of tickets up for sale at 6 a.m. for March-through-May travel, it is cutting three of its five West Coast routes for financial reasons, the airline confirmed.

 

Read more:

http://dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2007/10/16/skybus_tix.ART_ART_10-16-07_C12_KU86MMS.html?sid=101

Hmmm...

 

The announcement comes as oil prices have hit record highs, leading some airlines to raise ticket prices and shed fuel-guzzling long-haul flights in favor of shorter, more-profitable ones.

 

Skybus CEO Bill Diffenderffer said cutting Skybus' service to San Diego and Bellingham, Wash., which serves Seattle, along with one of its two daily flights to Burbank, Calif., is "based primarily on the sharp increase in the cost of jet fuel." He said Skybus "needed to take a look at our scheduling strategy and find ways to use our fleet more effectively to serve more passengers in more cities."

 

Didn't I say this before...

 

14 daily departures to 11 cities with 5 aircraft is nothing incredible and is actually a quite poor use of their aircraft. In a high utilization route structure, block times should be no more than 2 hours or so, to get the maximum use out of the aircraft on many routes. By flying several west coast jaunts, Skybus severely cramps their utilization rates.

 

Hopefully the winter kills them off nice and quick, so that the airport and the city can focus on attracting better service to Columbus.

Skybus upsets West Coast travel plans

Some fliers are left stranded after route cuts

Wednesday,  October 17, 2007 3:34 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Ski vacations and visits from grandma evaporated for a number of central Ohioans yesterday, as Skybus Airlines canceled its service to Bellingham, Wash.

 

Skybus cut that route along with the San Diego service and one of its daily Burbank, Calif., flights yesterday. Spokesman Bob Tenenbaum cited high jet-fuel costs as the reason for the decision.

 

Read more at:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2007/10/17/skybus_cancel.ART_ART_10-17-07_C8_UM86VOH.html?sid=101

 

I don't see this lasting much longer.  They are already using the "fuel" excuse.

 

This person from the dispatch is using poor reporting and incorrect information.  There is no way that you could take a Continental flight from Columbus to Minneapolis and connect to a continental flight to Seattle!

 

That most likely a Northwest flight (metal) with a code share continental flight number.

Yikes! My hubbie and I are running the Boston Marathon in April, and we booked our flights on Skybus this past week.  The flight goes from Columbus to Portsmouth, NH which is about an hour from Boston.  Total roundtrip for BOTH of us was $122.  I hope they work out these kinks by then......

On the heels of the JetBlue announcement discontinuing their Port Columbus service comes this announcement from SkyBus . . .

 

Greensboro newest hub for Skybus

Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 3:36 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Greensboro put out the welcome mat for Skybus Airlines yesterday, as the Columbus-based startup named Piedmont Triad International Airport in North Carolina its next operations base.  North Carolina Gov. Mike Easley and other local officials were joined by Skybus executives for the afternoon announcement at the airport.

 

The state pledged up to $3.98 million in exchange for Skybus' promise to add 375 jobs in Greensboro.  The airport approved incentives that could be worth $6 million or more over the next three years, and other local development groups also pledged hundreds of thousands of dollars in enticements.

 

MORE: http://www.dispatch.com

"Proposed new routes have been shelved, and new airlines have decided not to consider Columbus when opening new cities."

 

I'm new to this forum, but was curious if you could elaborate at all to this statement?  I've emailed someone at the airport in the past and have been told no significant routes had been planned from any carrier.  They were told by Southwest that any west coast and east coast cities would go through MDW or BNA, not non-stop from CMH.  They pitched DEN to them but that hasn't happened.  Most of the other carriers are focused on their hubs.  Now, I like SX here, but I also don't want to lose potential service from "better" carriers.  Delta doesn't seem interested in expanding their so-called focus city either, so I'm not sure where we would have ever had non-stop flights to such places as SFO, SEA, SAN.  Granted, SAN will no longer be served nor will the Seattle region.  Here's hoping somone will pick those up, but I highly doubt it.  I honestly think SWA should add DEN, FLL, SAT and ISP, but thats just me.

Well, I can go into specifics now since one of the airlines I was alluding to is pulling out (re: jetBlue).

 

Proposed new routes included FLL with jetBlue, and possibly other Florida destinations, but with Skybus' entrance, those no longer were viable options. New airlines that have decided not to come to Columbus include Allegiant Air, which would have been an excellent and stable operator out of LCK. Other airlines are scaling back operations, such as American, which will be down to just 3 mainline flights a day come December, a historically busy month over at CMH. I've said repeatedly before that Skybus will lead to the overall complete degredation of the Columbus air travel market, I just didn't think it would start so soon.

 

They were told by Southwest that any west coast and east coast cities would go through MDW or BNA, not non-stop from CMH.  They pitched DEN to them but that hasn't happened.

 

The thing with Southwest is that they are very methodical with their route network, and for good reason. Transcons require dedicating an aircraft for nearly the entire day, Southwest or any airline for that matter, needs to make sure that not only the passengers, but the yields are there in order to make dedicating an aircraft to the route a viable course of action. The fact of the matter is, Columbus doesn't have the critical mass to support nonstops to San Diego, Seattle, or most other West Coast destinations by itself, as Skybus just found out. Los Angeles and San Fransicso are really the best we can expect without any kind of feeder traffic filtering through Columbus that a hub would provide. As far as Denver goes, I could see Southwest doing a nonstop from Columbus, since United has the market cornered and does charge a pretty penny to fly between the two cities. But I think the case with Southwest is that there are lower hanging fruit where they can allocate their resources.

So basically instead of trying to drive SX out, the other carriers are just conceding?  I imagine if SX opens GYY as has been rumored, WN would kill them on that route.  I think WN could open FLL and also drive SX out of that route, but like you said, there probably isn't enough traffic for WN to consider FLL nonstop from CMH.  I really think eventually SX will find its niche with a dozen or so destinations from CMH and then that will be it.  A city like GSO will probably do better in that there is not as much competition there.  Too bad B6 left, they'll probably never return.  I still think Air Tran should come here, but they're already in DAY and CAK. 

 

Did any other airlines drop routes?  There were talks of Delta doing PBI and JAX, but they supposedly declined.  Some focus city they have here.

So basically instead of trying to drive SX out, the other carriers are just conceding? 

 

The only carrier that can realistically make an attempt at eradicating Skybus is Southwest, since they're the only ones that can come close to pricing themselves at the same level as Skybus. Southwest has made the effort too through their online Ding! fares. Other carriers, such as American and Delta, will concede the market to Skybus if it gets to a point that even with their differentiated product, that they can't make the loads and yields work.

 

I imagine if SX opens GYY as has been rumored, WN would kill them on that route. 

 

The only way I can see them opening GYY is if the airport literally throws money at them in the eventual hope of gaining focus city status. The CMH-CHI market is already incredibly well served and is the lowest fare market from Columbus. Skybus initially said that they wanted to steer clear of competing directly with Southwest; it looks like things may have changed.

 

I think WN could open FLL and also drive SX out of that route, but like you said, there probably isn't enough traffic for WN to consider FLL nonstop from CMH. 

 

Honestly, without Skybus, I think we'd have seen jetBlue flying between CMH and FLL. The South Florida market had been underserved for the longest time, and Skybus came in to capitalize on it. The problem with S. Florida is that it's a low yield and highly seasonal market from Columbus, which makes it tough for airlines to operate without some sort of hub traffic to continuously fill planes. The Skybus concept does work well in markets like this, but I think other carriers, such as Southwest and jetBlue, could provide a far superior product at a slightly higher fare.

 

I still think Air Tran should come here, but they're already in DAY and CAK. 

 

Did any other airlines drop routes?  There were talks of Delta doing PBI and JAX, but they supposedly declined.  Some focus city they have here.

 

As I mentioned earlier, Columbus is now a pariah in the airline industry due to Skybus. AirTran could have been a possibility had CMH been given the opportunity to grow organically. But with the steroidal presence of Skybus placing a glut of insanely low seats in the market, no airline in their right mind would come here. Even worse, those that are here are thinking twice about their presence in the market, including Delta.

More SkyBus news in today's Dispatch . . .

 

Airline lands 75 miles outside NYC

Friday, November 2, 2007 - 3:36 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose, THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

It's not exactly the core of the Big Apple, but Skybus Airlines hopes flying into Stewart International Airport in Newburgh, N.Y., about 75 miles north of New York City, will have appeal.  Yesterday, Skybus announced its first foray into the New York market, the most popular destination from Port Columbus.  Twice-daily flights from Port Columbus to Newburgh will start Jan. 6, with twice-daily flights from Skybus' new focus city, Greensboro, N.C., beginning Feb. 25.

 

Tickets went on sale at 11:30 a.m. yesterday at www.skybus.com.  As with all Skybus flights, the first 10 seats on each plane are priced at $10 each way, with fares increasing after those are sold out.  Local industry observers said an airport such as Stewart, which is at least 1 1/2 hours away from Manhattan by car or rail, is likely to attract mostly leisure travelers rather than business people.

 

Flights from Columbus begin the day that JetBlue plans to pull out of Port Columbus, a move that was announced last week.  JetBlue officials attributed the move to their inability to raise fares to a profitable level here.  Airport representatives and travel professionals predicted that New York fares could rise with JetBlue's exit, so they will be watching whether Skybus has any impact there.

 

MORE: http://www.dispatch.com

I suppose thats good news.  One LCC leaves the region, another steps in.  Its good for people who want to visit the NY "area", but aren't necessarily spending all their time in the city. 

^^ Crazy.

I suppose thats good news.  One LCC leaves the region, another steps in.  Its good for people who want to visit the NY "area", but aren't necessarily spending all their time in the city. 

 

This isn't close or convenient.  I don't see anyone from Columbus flying to Stewart to come to the city.  Which the majority of travelers would be doing.  Its just not practical nor cost efficient since most passengers will be or are on a budget.

 

Funny thing is the NYNJ Port Authority will take over operations at the airport at the end of January.  I know this might be a "reliever" airport for JFK/Newark since the FAA wants to try to cut down on delays, etc and they want to attract more commercial carriers.

 

People will fly there to save money.  Skybus proved that with Bellingham.  Bookings were solid, the cost of fuel killed that route.  Besides, not everyone who flies to an area of the country is always going to that particular city.  Time will tell if people are willing to use this route.  Airtran has been very successful there.  Who knows.  Way too soon to tell.  It will be a more successful route than MKE or MCI.

My wife usually takes the train into NYC ... it's usually only about $20 from upstate NY.

My wife usually takes the train into NYC ... it's usually only about $20 from upstate NY.

 

It's $15 actually, and there's a $1 shuttle that runs from Stewart to the Metra-North train station in Beacon.  How do I know all this?  I did a little research before jumping on a set of $10 tickets in May. ;)

My wife usually takes the train into NYC ... it's usually only about $20 from upstate NY.

 

It's $15 actually, and there's a $1 shuttle that runs from Stewart to the Metra-North train station in Beacon.   How do I know all this?  I did a little research before jumping on a set of $10 tickets in May. ;)

 

What is this Metra-North you speak of?  That doesn't exist, at least in NY. :wink:

 

I still don't see the appeal of taking a flight to an airport that is three counties away from NYC proper.  It's 80 miles away.  The money you save, is eaten up by sitting on a train for 1½ hours.  Riding the train in is as long as the flight from Columbus.

Christ man!  I'm on vacation.  Just because that 1.5 hour is someone's MetrO North commute doesn't mean it can't be a scenic spring train ride for me!!!

 

That said, I'd expect exactly zero business passengers to go to Stewart.

Christ man!  I'm on vacation.  Just because that 1.5 hour is someone's MetrO North commute doesn't mean it can't be a scenic spring train ride for me!!!

 

That said, I'd expect exactly zero business passengers to go to Stewart.

 

:-D  Scenic?  You are an optimistic one, aren't you?  :-D  I agree, this will strictly be low budget travelers, but I think after that 90 min ride back and forth interest will wain. 

 

Also, you need to take into consideration irregular operations.  A small accident or delay and you could be stuck.

Sure looks nice to me...

 

http://flickr.com/search/?q=hudson%20line&w=all

 

 

 

 

And as far as "irregular operations", if I were that worried about getting stranded, I wouldn't be flying on Skybus, or any airline for that matter.  Their on-time reputation has been abysmal this year.

The picture you posted is not metro north train.  The picture from Jersey isn't the same sight you'd see coming down the Hudson.  Not to argue, more of a "be cautious", you know, food for thought.

The picture you posted is not metro north train.  The picture from Jersey isn't the same sight you'd see coming down the Hudson.  Not to argue, more of a "be cautious", you know, food for thought.

What do I need to "be cautious" of?

 

I'm not saying that people can't be wrong when they post Flickr image descriptions, but here's the description from the first one entitled "FL9s on the Hudson Line"...

 

The Metro-North commuter railroad inherited a large fleet of EMD FL-9's, which were dual-mode diesel-electric/electric locomotives originally operated by the New Haven Railroad. They lasted until September of 2001, shortly after this picture was taken at Greystone, New York.

 

The second has the tags "Peekskill" and "Hudson Line"

 

The third is called "Metro North" and has the description, "Hudson Line, en route to Poughkeepsie".

"be cautious" of the times for your train and connections.

 

I'm not saying that people can't be wrong when they post Flickr image descriptions, but here's the description from the first one entitled "FL9s on the Hudson Line"...

 

The Metro-North commuter railroad inherited a large fleet of EMD FL-9's, which were dual-mode diesel-electric/electric locomotives originally operated by the New Haven Railroad. They lasted until September of 2001, shortly after this picture was taken at Greystone, New York.

 

The second has the tags "Peekskill" and "Hudson Line"

 

The third is called "Metro North" and has the description, "Hudson Line, en route to Poughkeepsie".

The quote below is what I see for that picture

The Metro-North commuter railroad inherited a large fleet of EMD FL-9's, which were dual-mode diesel-electric/electric locomotives originally operated by the New Haven Railroad. They lasted until September of 2001, shortly after this picture was taken at Greystone, New York.

 

That train in the first picture is of an old engine that was on trains that ran in Conneticut.  So what you see in that picture is not what you will see on the Hudson line.  I can't say 100% what the second picture is of, but I'd say it was New Jersey and third picture is taken from New Jersey looking at the train going North in New York.  :wink:

 

....anyway, back to SkyBuss

Skybus gets financing for 13 jets

Wednesday,  November 14, 2007 3:38 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Skybus Airlines and the Bank of China's BOC Aviation unit have completed a deal for BOC to finance 13 of Skybus' new Airbus A319 jets.

 

The jets, which have a list price of more than $750 million, are due for delivery in 2009 and 2010.

 

More at:

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2007/11/14/skybus_finance.ART_ART_11-14-07_C9_148FJ7B.html?sid=101

Has anyone on here actually flown on SX?  I may be flying them next year and was curious about the experience. 

I've never flown on them, and I never will.

 

It looks like we'll have fewer choices to fly period come next year too:

 

USAirways (East) will discontinue all mainline service to Columbus starting in January.

 

USAirways will reduce PHL flying to 6 times daily service.

 

JetBlue discontinues all service to CMH in January.

 

Delta discontinues all service to LAX from CMH in January.

 

Delta will reduce JFK flying to 3 times daily service.

 

Yep, it's a good think we've got Skybust around...

 

 

^did people feel the same way about southwest when they first started expanding?

Sure some people did and still do.

 

Southwest's spartan offerings (at the time) and lower fares can be partially to blame for the major carriers' degredation of inflight service. Some people within and outside the industry still resent Southwest's presence and their influence on the market. I've always considered Southwest to be "bad enough" as far as taking the industry down to its lowest common denominator. Then of course, we get the pleasure of having Skybus. While I resent Skybus for what it is and what it's doing, I do realize that for many, price is the most critical factor when choosing to fly. However, I don't think the Columbus market is big enough to support Skybus yet maintain a decent level of service for those willing to pay more for better, more convenient and reliable service from other carriers. My fear is that air travel market in Columbus will become the equivalent of the Columbus retail market being dominated by 99 Cent stores.

Well, for me and my family, cost is an issue.  We have family in Grand Forks, ND.  Looking at prices for flights to MSP whether N/S or via connection, it is just too much to pay.  Thats why we looked at SX for a flight to MKE and then driving the rest of the way.  We compared costs and even with rental car fees, the price is still half of what other airlines are offering.  And it appears based on different news reports that airline ticket prices will continue to rise as the price of oil goes through the roof.  It appears DL dropping LAX had nothing to do with SX at BUR.  US dropping mainline is no surprise to me.  Look at what they've done to PIT.  I think WN has hurt US on the PHL route as well.  So, I don't know if SX is to blame for everything.  WN being here probably doesn't help other airlines either.  Hopefully YX doesn't pull out if CMH-MKE on SX is a hit (which I don't figure it will be). 

My fear is that air travel market in Columbus will become the equivalent of the Columbus retail market being dominated by 99 Cent stores.

 

Terrible analogy.  With 99 cent stores, you're left with a tangible peice of crap after your purchase.  With $10 direct flights, you get to travel from point A to point B.  In my experience, there is little difference between a $10 flight to San Diego and a $300 flight, aside from the fact that the $300 flight stops in Minneapolis.

 

If you could make the argument that SX service is of a lesser quality (is disproportionately late, it's lower paid pilots frequently crash and injure passengers, or frequently drops me off at the wrong point B) then I'd agree with you.  But it's almost an indistinguishable product from normal air travel for me.

 

Until then, I'm calling SX a win for Joe Consumer.

Terrible analogy.  With 99 cent stores, you're left with a tangible peice of crap after your purchase.  With $10 direct flights, you get to travel from point A to point B.  In my experience, there is little difference between a $10 flight to San Diego and a $300 flight, aside from the fact that the $300 flight stops in Minneapolis.

 

The airline industry has always been and will always be rooted in the service industry, therefore the analogy is perfectly valid and can help those that are ill-informed of the workings of the industry understand what it entails. For example, the roster of the nation's airlines can be perfectly aligned with what one would find in the retail sector:

 

Midwest Airlines ---> Nordstrom: Provide a product that is a cut above the competition in their respective industry in select markets.

American Airlines ---> Macy's: Provide a quality product that is available almost everywhere.

Southwest Airlines ---> Wal*Mart: Strive for affordability while providing a product that meets customers' expectations.

Skybus Airlines ---> Dollar Tree: Lowest common denominator.

 

If you could make the argument that SX service is of a lesser quality (is disproportionately late, it's lower paid pilots frequently crash and injure passengers, or frequently drops me off at the wrong point B) then I'd agree with you.  But it's almost an indistinguishable product from normal air travel for me.

 

Your "quality standards" actually fit Skybus' mold quite well. They are frequently late, especially as their operations progress throughout the day. Their ability to provide a safe product, not through their pilots, but through flight attendants that are paid $9 and focus more on selling products to receive commission than on safety, is questionable. Lastly, Skybus frequently does drop people off at the wrong destination. Many of the airports to which Skybus flies have towers that close in the evening or have lesser minimums than other larger airports. For example, Portsmouth and Biloxi towers close at 11PM, so if there's a delay, you're not getting in. Bellingham and Richmond have more restrictions during inclement weather, which has caused Skybus flights to divert to Seattle/Boeing Field and Norfolk respectively, while larger airports continue to function.

 

Until then, I'm calling SX a win for Joe Consumer.

 

Joe Consumer needs to become familiar with a service industry mantra: "buyer beware."

Skybus in the red by $16 million

Numbers not a surprise, airline says, but analysts are wary

Tuesday,  December 18, 2007 3:10 AM

By Marla Matzer Rose

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

The first look at Skybus Airlines' financial performance shows that the no-frills Columbus startup lost $16 million during the three months ended Sept. 30.

 

Company officials said they expected to lose money before becoming profitable sometime next year, while some analysts said this first look provided some troubling signs for the airline.

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2007/12/18/skybus_loss.ART_ART_12-18-07_C10_8V8Q86U.html?sid=101

It would be a shame for those that can't afford the overpriced tickets on other airlines if SX goes away, but if it does, then it does.  Maybe if it goes away someone like WN will do some expanding.  Doubtful, but maybe. 

 

But, there's no need to panic yet.  After all, the far superior start-up (according to just about everyone) Virgin America lost $35 million.  It means just one thing.  Both carriers have work to do.

I agree with what CMH_Downtown has stated in the past.  This faux airline is bad news

The company I choose for reliability and promptness, as well as service is Southwest.  The percentage of times I have been stranded in connecting cities with Continental and (especially) Northwest is outrageous.  Southwest has never stranded me.  As for service, for me nothing compares to a genuine smile, I would take that over an assigned seat any day of the week.

Has anyone on here actually flown on SX?  I may be flying them next year and was curious about the experience. 

 

I did for the first time this past weekend.  Other than being a little late, had absolutely no problems.  It was a great value and would have no problem flying Skybus again for my leisure travel, which is good since I have four more upcoming trips already booked. 

Glad to hear it went well.  Not sure if I am going to be flying them or not, but will take a hard look considering the price.  I have no loyalties towards any one airline.  Each experience for me (on AA, US, HP and WN) have been identical, except for a pressurization problem on AA out of DEN.

 

Where did you go and where else are you flying them?

Terrible analogy.  With 99 cent stores, you're left with a tangible peice of crap after your purchase.  With $10 direct flights, you get to travel from point A to point B.  In my experience, there is little difference between a $10 flight to San Diego and a $300 flight, aside from the fact that the $300 flight stops in Minneapolis.

 

The airline industry has always been and will always be rooted in the service industry, therefore the analogy is perfectly valid and can help those that are ill-informed of the workings of the industry understand what it entails. For example, the roster of the nation's airlines can be perfectly aligned with what one would find in the retail sector:

 

Midwest Airlines ---> Nordstrom: Provide a product that is a cut above the competition in their respective industry in select markets.

American Airlines ---> Macy's: Provide a quality product that is available almost everywhere.

Southwest Airlines ---> Wal*Mart: Strive for affordability while providing a product that meets customers' expectations.

Skybus Airlines ---> Dollar Tree: Lowest common denominator.

 

So you work for Midwest, or American?  ;)

 

The analogy still sucks -- airlines provide a service, and retailers provide tangible goods.  There's more of a "quality" impact to the latter.  People who work for Nordstroms try to make you think you're buying a service by doing everything short of wiping your ass, but at the end of the day, I just want to buy a nice shirt, not feel special when I'm shopping for it.

 

If you could make the argument that SX service is of a lesser quality (is disproportionately late, it's lower paid pilots frequently crash and injure passengers, or frequently drops me off at the wrong point B) then I'd agree with you.  But it's almost an indistinguishable product from normal air travel for me.

 

Your "quality standards" actually fit Skybus' mold quite well. They are frequently late, especially as their operations progress throughout the day. Their ability to provide a safe product, not through their pilots, but through flight attendants that are paid $9 and focus more on selling products to receive commission than on safety, is questionable. Lastly, Skybus frequently does drop people off at the wrong destination. Many of the airports to which Skybus flies have towers that close in the evening or have lesser minimums than other larger airports. For example, Portsmouth and Biloxi towers close at 11PM, so if there's a delay, you're not getting in. Bellingham and Richmond have more restrictions during inclement weather, which has caused Skybus flights to divert to Seattle/Boeing Field and Norfolk respectively, while larger airports continue to function.

 

1) I don't doubt that Skybus is "frequently late".  Every airline is frequently late in my book.  I've been delayed or stranded by Delta/Continental/American more times than I can count.  Can you provide statistics that show that Skybus is later than the others?

 

2) How many times does the sheer intelligence from flight attendants save lives?  I can't say that I've ever looked around at the stewardesses and said, "well there's a crew I trust with my life".  :-D

 

3) I didn't know about the "frequent" dropping off of passsengers at the wrong destination.  Thought I would've heard more about that, but I guess the Dispatch has a conflict of interest when it comes to covering them.  Then again, you seem to have a conflict of interest as well.  I don't know who to believe here.

 

Until then, I'm calling SX a win for Joe Consumer.

 

Joe Consumer needs to become familiar with a service industry mantra: "buyer beware."

 

I'm aware, but I can't pass up dirt cheap tickets.  If your airline figures out a way to get me+1 on a direct flight to San Francisco for under $200 let me know, because I'll buy those tickets too. 

 

If Skybus folds tomorrow, I'd shrug my shoulders and say, "Well, I guess I'm out those $80."  That's just the way things go.

 

3) I didn't know about the "frequent" dropping off of passsengers at the wrong destination.  Thought I would've heard more about that, but I guess the Dispatch has a conflict of interest when it comes to covering them.  Then again, you seem to have a conflict of interest as well.  I don't know who to believe here.

 

Check these websites:

 

http://www.flytecomm.com

http://www.flightaware.com

 

Pair it with the scheduled departure/arrival times listed at this website:

 

http://www.skybus.com

 

For example, today was not a good day for Skybus...

 

3 flights cancelled today: SKB 240 CMH-SAN, SKB 241 SAN-CMH, and SKB 2 PSM-CMH.

 

In order to rescue stranded people in PSM, they took the CEF-CMH flight, SKB 52, and routed it through PSM. That aircraft is supposed to do 4 more segements when it gets back to Columbus, CMH-MKE, MKE-CMH, CMH-PGJ, PGJ-CMH. Since Skybus has no spare aircraft, those flights are now posting 2 hour delays due to the unscheduled stop in PSM.

 

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKB52

 

Yeah, I know, I have no life...  :wink: