I find it a travesty that the old Cincinnati Royals (Sacramento Kings) are leaving town, and Cincinnati isn't prepared to sweep them off of their feet, and take them back to Ohio. 

 

The City refuses to acknowledge that US Bank Arena does not generate the income it could for the region because it is so outdated.  If a CSA of over 3 million (6 million residents within a 100 mile radius of downtown) had an NBA-ready arena, why wouldn't Commissioner David Stern push for a team here?  Cincinnati has had investors step forward in the last 10 years.  The problem being none had the cache to build an arena.  An arena is different from a football stadium, or baseball cathedral, in that it is an economic engine year-round, not just the occassional prep football contest.  That means that it's on the City to make it happen if they indeed want the payoff it would bring. 

 

KC has a new arena, but has less than 2 million people in their metro, with the same construction of pro sports already in place (MLB and NFL).  The Kings are thinking of moving to Anaheim.  Does LA really need 3 basketball teams??  Any thoughts?

The LA area has only one team, the Clippers don't count as an NBA organization. :D

Did you really say "Baseball Cathedral"?

From my understanding the Royals left Cincinnati due to lack of interest. I could be wrong, that's just what I heard. Declining ticket sales and whatnot. Of course that was a long time ago. I think it could work but I don't think it's high on Cincinnati's list of priorities right now.

There was plenty of interest in the Royals, but the ownership group disinvested in the team in the last couple years before they left which undermined their fanbase. They were scamming to leave pretty much from day one.

 

The NBA is as ghettoized as it has ever been in terms of its fanbase. I mean that to include in racial connotations (though not necessarily in a demeaning way).

From my understanding the Royals left Cincinnati due to lack of interest. I could be wrong, that's just what I heard. Declining ticket sales and whatnot. Of course that was a long time ago. I think it could work but I don't think it's high on Cincinnati's list of priorities right now.

 

Good point, VA. Our own Bengals aren't a real NFL organization, so I suppose we only have 1 pro team  :wink:

 

Yes David, I said cathedral.  I thought it fit with MLB having fostered such a parochial culture  :-D.  Seriously though, I don't know why the millions of annual revenue a first-class arena would bring Cincinnati isn't a priority.  The Banks and the streetcar are fantastic initiatives to revitalize the core.  The NBA could be a part of that promising future downtown.

City Blights, I once worked for USBA and have done a lot of work at The Gardens, my friend and I talk about this stuff all the time, I'm glad you made the topic.

 

You're right, no NBA team would move into USBA as their permanent home, not at least without a massive renovation. Even so, there's no room to expand and the facility itself is quite dated.

 

It's important to keep in mind that when the NBA left Cincinnati, the league wasn't the league it is now. Once the 1990's and Michael Jordan rolled around, it really reached new heights. I was a huge MJ/Bulls fan, but when I got older - I couldn't care anymore. I don't follow the NBA at all now. For me, it's basically because I feel I have no allegiance to a team since there isn't one here. Without the NBA network, it would be hard to follow an out of state team and I don't want to be a fan of anything Cleveland.

 

I think the reason Kansas City is in the running and was able to build a new arena was because they had a sort of two pronged plan. They were hoping to get an NBA expansion or relocated franchise and at the same time they're looking at courting a relocated NHL franchise.

 

In Cincinnati we'd never get an NHL team with the Jackets in Cbus, so that would leave us to court one major league primary tenant. You could throw an AHL team in there though, it be a step up from the Cyclones.

 

In Cincinnati USBA is still somewhat capable of housing large concerts, you also have Riverbend in the summer. When I was at USBA, they hated the Bank of Kentucky Center because many bands would elect to play there two nights in a row instead of one night at USBA. If Cincinnati wants a new arena, I think it will have to come in an era where spending tax dollars isn't so taboo and the Bank Arena is finally incapable of holding large scale touring acts.

In what ways is US Bank arena deficient? I figure handicap access and loading docks, but in what other ways? I've been to it and other arenas plenty of times, and they mostly seem the same to me.

^It's fine for the events/sports it holds now, but it wouldn't be considered for a major league franchise (NBA or NHL) unless it received a substantial renovation/replacement. In terms of major league sports, the arena lacks modern "revenue generating" luxury boxes (it has some, but newer arenas have more and they are varied (i.e. club levels, boxes at different levels not just the top)). The arena has also never had a good reputation of handling crowds. A few examples come to mind (WHO tragedy aside):

 

^ That particular game I was at, there were around 10,000 in attendance for a Cyclones hockey game. That's nearing, but not the full capacity of the arena. The concourses, restrooms and concession stands were incredibly cramped and crowded.

 

When I worked there, the first event I worked was a Phish concert. I was the only guy at the smoking doors. Due to the large crowd, they actually roped off the outside of the arena. This allowed patrons to walk around outside so long as they didn't go past the temporary ticket taking stands. Because of this, no hand stamp was required to go outside and smoke a cigarette. However, you were not allowed to take beer outside. I was the only guy at one door who was supposed to check people as they came in and out. Eventually the crowd got so big and people were opening doors and sneaking alcohol out, that a CPD officer told me to give up and open other doors. The crowd outside was so packed that I couldn't even move, it was like this:

 

 

If you ever drive on Mehring Way during an event, the road is packed with trucks unloading.

 

The facility isn't completely outdated, but it's showing it's age and in reality has never really been able to hold crowds well. At least in my opinion.

I sort of analogize Cincy to Charlotte as an NBA market.  Both areas are heavily into college b-ball.  Charlotte has struggled financially with both of its franchises (Hornets and Bobcats).  Given that Ky. is even more college b-ball crazy, the reach of the market is also limited.

 

 

I don't want to be a fan of anything Cleveland.

 

Why?  The sooner we start working together and rooting for each other to succeed, the better it will be for our state.  I don't root against the Bearcats or Reds.  Happy to see them succeed (Bengals are the lone exception because they are inner-division rivals).  Ohio pride!

Why?

 

When it comes to terms of politics and the state, I'll gladly root for Cleveland. When it came to the 3C Corridor, I'll gladly root for Cleveland. I really like that city.

 

However, I'll never root for the Cleveland Browns II or The Indians. :)

 

I will root for the RTA though! Every time I'm in Cleveland, I love using the RTA.

TV market?

 

Edit:

 

Better list

 

http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/new-nielsen-dma-rankings-released/

However, I'll never root for the Cleveland Browns II or The Indians. :)

 

Understandable, but that doesn't mean you couldn't root for the Cavs.  Although, this season, there's plenty of reasons not to.  (Last season, there was only one.)

^I could, but I'm not much of a fan of the NBA or basketball in general. If my school had a D1 team or Cincy had an NBA team I might get into it. If the CAVS ever go to the post season again, they'll have my support as I'll probably tune in.

 

If the CAVS definitely go through with hiring that golden voice guy, then I'll be a fan 100%

TV market?

 

Edit:

 

Better list

 

http://www.lostremote.com/2007/08/23/new-nielsen-dma-rankings-released/

Honestly don't you think a team would market some kind of licensing agreement with Louisville, Lexington and Dayton as well? Total up those and tell me the market then.

Greater Los Angeles could probably handle 5 different NBA teams.  Frankly I'd love to see the team move back to Rochester, New York.  But only if they had some governing structure like the Packers do.  Since the Maloof Family has extensive businesses in Las Vegas, I wouldn't be surprised if that city is still in the mix as well.

Cincinnati is a college basketball town, in the same way that Columbus is a college football town.  I know the Bearcats have been struggling with attendance this year, but there are no shortage of UC fans. In addition, XU sells 10k to every home game.

 

When you have two quasi-pro basketball teams, with large and (mostly) loyal followings, it's not hard to see why the NBA isn't making Cincinnati a priority. Or indeed why Cincinnati isn't making the NBA a priority.

interesting trivia that the brown's otto graham played for the earlier rochester royals and won a nbl championship before later winning them in football. not many cross-sport pro players!

to make the NBA successful in Cincinnati, make it part of the Ovation project in Newport.... seating 20k plus on the river, slap the name "KENTUCKY whatever" and watch the people come....

You guys are nuts! Bunch of dreamers. I get like that too though. I don't care where the Kings go because they traded Kevin Martin anyway. Two years ago I would have loved the idea of them moving to Cincy, esp. since I could have gotten free tickets but an NBA team isn't going to make or break the city.  It's mostly a vanity thing and trust me, if Cincinnatians were to EVER find out they were subsidizing yet another team owned by some rich douche like Paul Brown, you'dl never hear the end of it!

You guys are nuts! Bunch of dreamers. I get like that too though. I don't care where the Kings go because they traded Kevin Martin anyway. Two years ago I would have loved the idea of them moving to Cincy, esp. since I could have gotten free tickets but an NBA team isn't going to make or break the city.  It's mostly a vanity thing and trust me, if Cincinnatians were to EVER find out they were subsidizing yet another team owned by some rich douche like Paul Brown, you'dl never hear the end of it!

You guys are nuts! Bunch of dreamers. I get like that too though. I don't care where the Kings go because they traded Kevin Martin anyway. Two years ago I would have loved the idea of them moving to Cincy, esp. since I could have gotten free tickets but an NBA team isn't going to make or break the city.  It's mostly a vanity thing and trust me, if Cincinnatians were to EVER find out they were subsidizing yet another team owned by some rich douche like Paul Brown, you'dl never hear the end of it!

 

I agree, it won't break the city to not have a team, but it would surely make the city money if they did.  My biggest qualm is with the arena.  The city loses money every time an event skips Cincinnati because of the outdated facility.  Having a team downtown gives the bars, resturants and The Banks 41 more days of great exposure, packed houses and would increase the CBD population.  The economic impact would be in the hundreds of millions before one game has even been played.

It might bring in a lot of money for the city but I think the economic impact of stadiums and arenas is probably overblown just by looking at other examples. Have you ever seen where the Atlanta Braves play? It's a freakin dump anywhere near the ballpark and there's a lot of hardcore Braves fans. That reminds me how much I hate Reds fans. They should be more into it than Redsox and Yankees fans considering they were the first major league Baseball Team. Evey time I've gone to a Reds game, half the people left the ballpark after the 6th inning to beat traffic out of downtown. Also, tickets are so easy to get, it's scary. But watch Cincinnatians at a d@mn highschool football game and it's a whole different story!

Braves fans are spread all over the South; they were the only team in the entire region and basically still are if you exclude Florida. It's harder for their fans in Mississippi and Charleston SC to make it to games. But of course, today's Southerners are more likely to dine and drink right off the off-ramp at an Applebee's or something before or after the game rather than near the ballpark.

^Yes, the Braves and the Redskins have HUGE followings in the Southeast because they were treated as regional teams back in the day.  This was before the Panthers and the Nationals were formed and still lingers to a certain extent today. 

 

Cincy is not ideal for a b-ball team because there is one in Indy and one in Cleveland.  That's not to say it can't work, but it is not ideal.  The Cavs certainly benefit from there not being a team in Cincy, Pittsburgh, or Buffalo, which translates to a wider, less competitive market in central Ohio, western NY, wester Pa. and a good chunk of W.Va.  I have sat next to fans from all of those areas at the Cavs games.  I've never met a Cavs fan from Cincy, but I suppose the comment I quoted upthread sort of explains that as indicative of their thoughts towards "anything Cleveland."

^I cheer for the Cavs when they're on tv or in the playoffs, but I don't go out of my way to watch their games, follow the team, etc.  Growing up without the NBA made me sort of disinterested in the league as a whole, and rather I cheer for teams with players I like.  As a kid/teen I'd go to several Bearcat games a year, and occasionally we'd go up to Indy to see an NBA game.  I cheer for the Cavs because they're an Ohio team, but I think if most people in Cincinnati want to see an NBA game, they'll take the 2 hour drive to Indy over the 4+ hour drive to Cleveland or Detroit, which are basically equidistant.

I also cheer for the Indians as long as they're not playing the Reds, but I admit I have a hard time cheering for the Browns, and would cheer for the Steelers over them if I had to* haha.

 

*Half of my family is from Pittsburgh

I have a hard time cheering for the Browns, and would cheer for the Steelers over them if I had to* haha.

 

Although Cincinnati is a college hoops mecca, I'm hesitant to say that basketball fans would really ostracize a pro team because of their love for the NCAA product.  At the end of the day, basketball fans love basketball, and if you put it in their face, they'll get behind it.  UC doesn't sell out because Cincinnati is a winner's town, and they haven't won in a while.  The NBA allows for mediocrity to creep into the playoffs with their 16-team postseason format, so all the team has to do is flirt around as a 7 or 8 seed to seem attention-worthy to the local populace.  With Mike Brown's Bengals located in this town, that would be a welcome sight.

The NBA allows for mediocrity to creep into the playoffs with their 16-team postseason format, so all the team has to do is flirt around as a 7 or 8 seed to seem attention-worthy to the local populace. 

 

As opposed to the 64+1 format of March Madness?