Posted January 9, 200619 yr I have heard rumblings on my last two trips back to the area as to the future of the Towne Mall in Middletown. The Towne Mall was built in the early 1970s near I-75. It was a unique mall when built because it was the only mall to have both a McAlpin's and Elder-Beerman (Sears was the third anchor). It is a single story and contains about 500,000 square feet. From what I've heard, adding another level is out of the question because of the way the structure was built. At one time, it had decent stores..Gap, Chess King, J Riggins, Limited, Lerner, etc. The 1990s were not good to the mall, and a previous owner raised rent too high and a lot of the good stores left (some just went out of business completely nationally). Today, the three anchors remain (Dillards has replaced McAlpins), but most of the stores are second and third rate. High vacancy is also an issue. Rumor has it that the mall is going to be redeveloped. I've heard several variations but the main story is that the interior portion of the mall is going to be torn down and replaced with an open-air center. One version has Sears and Dillards remaining while Elder-Beerman would leave. Another version has all three anchors staying. New tenants that are supposedly locating at the new center include Barnes and Noble and TJ Maxx. Another open-air "lifestyle" center. At least this one makes sense. The mall, as is, has little future survival.
September 21, 200618 yr Maybe they will build a mixed use lifestyle center there. That would be a huge move for the city of Middletown.
December 21, 200618 yr Built in the mid-1970's in Franklin Township, Towne Mall crippled hopes of a successful City Center Mall (Mart) in downtown Middletown. The mall had three anchors (Sears, Elder Beerman, and McAplins) and approximately 50 stores in three wings. Lerner, Gap, Limited, etc. were once in the mall, but the mall is nearly at 50% vacancy (excluding the anchors) and not even the McDonald's could survive. Radio Shack, Walden Books, Bath & Body, and Kay Jewelers are the biggest names the mall can boast today and the age of an average shopper is probably 60. Shortly after Middletown annexed the land from Franklin Township (around 1996), the mall's major decline coincidentally began, but it is not an uncommon to hear people make the connection. Rumors of redevelopment have been circulating for a while, and chances seem good that something will change in the next few years. An unusually decent crowd were doing their holiday shopping. The mall only has one entrance other than the anchors. Elder Beerman Sears One of the most recent closings: This was a pizza restaurant for years, oh the memories... The mall's 70's architecture is quite noticeable: Filling a vacant storefront... These benches used to be covered with faded red fabric, it was bittersweet to see that go. :lol: The mall once had a jewelry store on all four corners of the main hub where the wings of stores met, now two remain: The center was also sunken until a few years ago and featured a fountain. Gift wrap was a fundraiser for a church... This was a KB Toys my entire childhood; I can't believe it is gone. The restrooms are worse than a county fair... Goodbye from Wilson Park in beautiful Midletown!
December 21, 200618 yr it is amazing that america gives up on its beloved main streets for this junk. An idealized cartoonish misrepresentation of a city turned in upon itself, with ample parking, no 1st amendment freedoms and no socially undesirable persons.
December 21, 200618 yr Ah a mall in denial. You can really tell when things go downhill when they start covering their storefronts with soda machines. But hey at least the mall has some anchors. I agree to the statement above, but I also find it sad how America gives up on the malls we built 30-40 years ago. It's just creating even more waste. To replace them, we will just continue building more and parting further from the downtowns of America. IMO, the new thing (Lifestyle Centers) are ten times worse.
December 21, 200618 yr Reminds me of the decline and fall of Fort Wayne's Southtown Mall. Sadly, the site has been redeveloped with big-box stores, hardly an improvement. So far, I think there's a Wal-Mart Supercenter and a Menard's.
December 21, 200618 yr looks just like polaris fashion mall when i was there last summer :laugh: great idea for a thread!
December 21, 200618 yr The pop machine solution looks like something you would see in inner city slums
December 21, 200618 yr wait a sec, if you look fast the last pic of the trashcan looks like it says "mo letdown" - fitting!
December 21, 200618 yr It's Parmatown circa 1995 after South Park was built. Thanks for the memories.
December 21, 200618 yr I love this stuff. Keep it coming and spread it far and wide. Urban grit is fun to look at, but the 52% of America that lives in the suburbs won't understand the cost of unsustainable development until they see it in familiar terms such as these. Nice work!
December 21, 200618 yr Just a question, Is this mall dead because of nearby competition from newer and fresher malls? If that's not a big issue, then a huge overhaul on this mall's appearance is all that is necessary. I mean, just look how depressing it is in these photos. More, and NEW updated lighting would be a welcome addition. Tile over the terrazzo floor and replace the seating area with benches and potted trees. The barrier-like seating cluster is a dead modernist idea. The ceiling design also needs to be scrapped. Remove all that drywall, expose the ceiling, and paint it white. It will give the mall a more open and airy feeling, or at least do some sort of lighting scheme to enhance it. Finally, clean the effing bathrooms!
December 21, 200618 yr You take an amazingly charitable and enlightened approach to the problem here, Hayward. But I fear the larger trend toward big boxes--along with newer and shinier and yet bigger malls--is what's doing in specimens such as this. It's chilling how much this mall looks like metro Detroit's Oakland Mall. The bones of Eastland and Northland, too. Same vintage. Same vision. Same fate. Though, come to think of it, Oakland Mall seems to be hanging on. If I recall, they did modernize in a few of the ways you've suggested here.
December 21, 200618 yr Cincinnati Mills (formerly Forest Fair) did a major version of the rehab that Hayward is proposing. They totally gutted and renovated the place and they "reloaded" with a bang a couple of years ago. But now the mall is declining again. My wife and I went there a few weeks ago and most of the stores we liked are gone; 1/2 the mall seems to be empty again. But it LOOKS NICE. I think the problem is that developments like this are synthetic. Some developer is trying to alter people's natural tendency to stay with certain shopping areas and neighborhoods. Some "synthetic" developments take off if they provide something people didn't have before. Other developments just always seem to have a permanent case of "cooties." Some new franchise looking to site itself will overlook malls like Middletown because the failure rate of stores there is high. Business owners will pay more for an assurance that they aren't crippling themselves. Also, being located in a trendy area helps. East Middletown isn't and never was trendy. Forest Fair and Fairfield are NOT trendy. Location, location, location.
December 21, 200618 yr Can you retrofit these things as prisons ? My nephew recommended that for Forest Fair. After one visit, I agreed.
December 21, 200618 yr I agree Oakland mall is nearing its end if they don't do something quick. I'm not sure about Northland though. It is doing good in terms of sales in comparison with other malls. Much of its success has to do with its renovations and catering exclusively to people in Southfield and West Detroit areas. BTW, for those who don't know, Northland Center is the second suburban mall constructed in the United States (after Northgate in Seatle), but was the largest for some time. It was considered the mall that started it all, and one of the creators of the beast we call "sprawl" today. I found this interesting fact about the designer of the mall from Wikipedia: "Gruen would later grow disenchanted with the malls he helped start with Northland. The architect, who also designed suburban Detroit's Eastland Center, Chicago's Randhurst and South Jersey's Cherry Hill Mall, pronounced himself disillusioned with the ugliness and fast-buck approach of many projects. "I refuse to pay alimony for those bastard developments," he told Time Magazine.[2]"
December 21, 200618 yr Interesting about the survival tactics of Northland. Embracing the community. What a concept. Fun detail about the older suburban Detroit malls: the Albert Kahn hallmarks evident in the massive brick and concrete Hudsons anchor stores, all referencing the downtown Hudsons flagship store they would eventually kill off.
December 21, 200618 yr What I meant by catering to those areas, is by providing retail that is popular to area demographics
December 21, 200618 yr ^For Oakland Mall to more closely cater to its local demographics, they'd need stores such as "Super Swetz: The XXXL Sweatpant Superstore" and "Mullet Masters."
December 21, 200618 yr Just a question, Is this mall dead because of nearby competition from newer and fresher malls? I think that there is a bigger issue at hand here that is more complex. Malls are built with only soo much room for flexibility and room to grow. Isn't the saying in the retail industry that if you're not growing...you're dieing. Malls get dated quickly, do not offer room for growth to tenants, and often times are completely built around by surounding development. Elsewhere in Cincy for example: Kenwood = VERY successful (new renovations/expansions) Tri-County = does well (renovations underway) Florence = does well (new renovations) Eastgate = does ok (new renovations) Northgate = bombing (renovations in the pipeline...no growth in years...close competition) Cincinnati Mills = (new renovations...no growth...close competition) My point is that these malls are EXTREMELY high maintainence; as soon as hard times hit for the owner/controller and they can't afford to go all out and improve the mall...then it is destined for failure; very few buck the trend.
December 21, 200618 yr The pop machine solution looks like something you would see in inner city slums Hmm I don't know about these "pop" machines you speak about. I only saw soda machines. Elsewhere in Cincy for example: Kenwood = VERY successful (new renovations/expansions) Tri-County = does well (renovations underway) Florence = does well (new renovations) Eastgate = does ok (new renovations) Northgate = bombing (renovations in the pipeline...no growth in years...close competition) Cincinnati Mills = (new renovations...no growth...close competition) I would put Northgate above Eastgate, there is only one small wing that is hurting but the rest of the mall is doing ok. I was just there this past weekend doing my yearly tour of the west side ;) Overall though with JCPenney leaving, if Northgate doesn't replace JCPenney with a Von Maur or something like that, the disease will spread. Tri-County is nice inside but Penney's leaving hurt the feel of the mall, now it seems like they are knocking down the storefront all together for some glass atrium. I do agree that Northgate-Cincinnati Mills-Tri-County are too close together and instead of one strong performing mall, it provides 3 mediocre shopping experiences.
December 22, 200618 yr Ahhhhhhhhhhh the place where I spent my Tween and Teen years...some of the mall's heydays. It has indeed seen better days. But it does draw people from Springboro, Lebanon, Franklin, Germantown, Monroe, Carlise, Trenton. From a retail standpoint, the area is strong. A new Kroger Marketplace to replace the old store; remodeled restaurants, a remodeled Meijer, a soon-to-be expanded Walmart. With all the development anticipated east of 75, the area is only going to get stronger. Believe it or not, this mall at one time had regional appeal, despite its size. Why? Because it was the only mall to have both an Elder-Beerman (Dayton) and a McAlpin's (Cincinnati). Both stores at one time hard a a large local following. Shoppers who wanted both stores in one location came to the Towne Mall. In fact, McAlpins outgrew its store that it operated a Big and Tall, Junior Miss and Young Men's stores within the mall itself. When Dillard's bought McAlpin's, there was less local loyalty, in my opinion. They eventually shutdown each of the departments in the mall and brought them into the main store, which meant less merchandise. It's very crowded in there now, and usually looks a mess. There are several reasons why the mall has declined to its current point, in my opinion. First, I think its hard for any enclosed mall of 500,000 sqft or or less to survive these days. And, from what I've been told, the mall structure and department stores don't support adding another level, which made expansion difficult. Plus, I had heard that several years ago, J.C. Penny wanted to be in the mall, but Elder-Beerman and Sears both objected and I guess it was written into their contract, but that is just hearsay. There were also rumors that a new mall was going to be built across the street, but a new Target, Kohl's and Lowe's went there instead. So while other malls expanded and renovated, the Towne Mall stayed the same. The closest mall, Dayton Mall, underwent an expansion that added a new J.C. Penny and a McAlpins (later to be Elder-Beerman). Now, they have a lifestyle component being built around it. Tri County is a good 20 plus mintues a way, so its hardly close. The popularity of big box stores, have also hurt a mall of this size. Because developers often operated several malls, they used to be able to write it into lease agreements that if you locate in one, you have to located in another. So for example, the Jacobs Group used to own the Towne Mall and they owned Dayton Mall. One of the requirements for opening a store in the Dayton Mall was to locate a store in the Towne Mall (of course the Jacobs Group picked which stores they wanted to apply this "rule" to.) I heard the rent at the Towne Mall was outrageous and that's what lead stores such as The Gap, The Limited to shut down. Another reason for the mall's decline is that several of the specialty stores simply went out of business. Not just at the Towne Mall, but nationally. Stores such as J. Riggins, Chess King, County Seat, County Seat, Casual Corner. High rent kept them from getting new national retailers. By the time Jacobs sold to CBL and Associates, the damage was done. Stores realized that shoppers will come to them, so no need to move back into Middletown when they will drive 15 minutes north to the Dayton Mall to shop. I think they have not been proactively seeking new permanent tenants because they know the mall's going to be gone and redeveloped. The latest I heard today (all based on hearsay) is that come January after the holidays are over, the stores will start to close and by spring, the place will be gone, with only Dillards, Sears and E-B remaining. I was just there briefly last night. It's dead this Christmas. I have never seen it like that before. As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather see a lifestyle center than a dead mall. Most people I know in Middletown don't shop there unless they need something quite. Most opt for Dayton or Kenwood.
December 22, 200618 yr It's so tough to compete when you have Rt. 725 (with miles of retail, restaurants, etc) up the street so perhaps a "lifestyle center" with the kept department stores would work better. I don't know... "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
December 22, 200618 yr Another reason for the mall's decline is that several of the specialty stores simply went out of business. Not just at the Towne Mall, but nationally. Stores such as J. Riggins, Chess King, County Seat, County Seat, Casual Corner. High rent kept them from getting new national retailers. Wow, time passes - I'd forgotten these stores ever even existed! :?
December 22, 200618 yr Another reason for the mall's decline is that several of the specialty stores simply went out of business. Not just at the Towne Mall, but nationally. Stores such as J. Riggins, Chess King, County Seat, County Seat, Casual Corner. High rent kept them from getting new national retailers. Wow, time passes - I'd forgotten these stores ever even existed! :? LOL I was thinking the same thing. I used to buy Z Cavaricci's at Chess King when I was in Junior High in Florida, embarrassing I know. Don't get me started in the red 12 zipper Michael Jackson jacket from 1983. God the 80's sucked. LOL
December 23, 200618 yr Another reason for the mall's decline is that several of the specialty stores simply went out of business. Not just at the Towne Mall, but nationally. Stores such as J. Riggins, Chess King, County Seat, County Seat, Casual Corner. High rent kept them from getting new national retailers. Wow, time passes - I'd forgotten these stores ever even existed! :? LOL I was thinking the same thing. I used to buy Z Cavaricci's at Chess King when I was in Junior High in Florida, embarrassing I know. Don't get me started in the red 12 zipper Michael Jackson jacket from 1983. God the 80's sucked. LOL The clothes at Chess King seemed so urban to me growing up. I don't think I shoped there. I still remembered when The Gap closed their store. It was a great store, because the Dayton store used to send all the stuff they couldn't sell down to Middletown at a big discount. Here are comments from a Middletown offiical on the status of the Towne Mall: "BTW - interesting discussion regarding Towne Mall - we are attempting to work the the owners on a more sustainable concept."
December 24, 200618 yr Lets hope the proposed Monroe Mall falls through for Towne Mall's sake. That land should go to a casino anyway, not another mall/outlet center.
December 24, 200618 yr That place is depressing, ink. I haven't been there since the late 1980s. I didn't realize it had fallen so far.
December 30, 200618 yr I had to run out to the Hallmark store yesterday. They are having a going out of business sale. I asked if they were closing, and she said the whole mall is closing. I asked when they were done, and she didn't know, but said the mall is coming down in the spring to make way for a lifestyle center. Waldenbooks is going out of business, and Things Remembered has already closed. The Footlocker has been come an "outlet" store for the time being.
December 30, 200618 yr ...I asked if they were closing, and she said the whole mall is closing. I asked when they were done, and she didn't know, but said the mall is coming down in the spring to make way for a lifestyle center... It doesn't get any more American than this.
December 30, 200618 yr Is a lifestyle center anything like a bar ? It's not a lifestyle (center): it's a life (center).
December 31, 200618 yr Lifestyle center, as used in commercial development in the United States, is a shopping center or mixed-used commercial development that combines the traditional retail functions of a shopping mall but with leisure amenities oriented towards upscale consumers. Lifestyle centers, which were first labelled as such by Memphis developers Poag & McEwen in the late 1980s [1] and emerged as a retailing trend in the late 1990s, are sometimes labeled "boutique malls" and are often located in affluent suburban areas. The proliferation of lifestyle centers in the United States accelerated in the 2000s, with number going from 30 in 2002 to 120 at the end of 2004 [2]. Lifestyle centers are sometimes depicted as occupying the upscale end of the spectrum of commercial development, at the opposite end of the outlet mall, which typically caters to a wider range of income with bargain prices. The growth of lifestyle centers had occurred at the same time of an acceleration of the shutting down of traditional shopping malls, which typically require large sites over 70 acres (283,000 m²) at a time when land prices are escalating. The construction of lifestyle centers usually require less land and generate higher revenue margins, often generating close to 500 dollars per square foot, compared to an average of 330 dollars per square foot for a traditional mall. Typical amenities at lifestyle centers include plush chairs instead of traditional plastic seating in common areas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_center
December 31, 200618 yr I'm surprised there's been no reference to Euclid Square Mall here. I've been wanting to take pictures of the mall to post here, but why when someone else has taken so many of the empty mall and its vacant outlots.... http://public.fotki.com/deadeuclid/ Here's a write up of Euclid Square Mall, posted at http://deadmalls.com/malls/euclid_square_mall.html Euclid Square Mall opened in March of 1977, on a former industrial site. The mall was anchored by May Company and Higbee's, and had almost 100 stores. The mall did well up until the mid-1990's, when tenants started moving out. The main competition for Euclid Square Mall was Great Lakes Mall in Mentor, about 10 miles east of Euclid Square, and Richmond Mall (later renamed Richmond Town Square) in Richmond Heights, about 4 miles south. Euclid Square Mall had the usual mix of mall tenants, including Walden Books, Kay Bee Toys, Record Town, shoe stores, clothing stores, etc. There was no food court, but food tenants, including Burger King, Arby's, York Steak House, etc. were all over the mall. There was also the "Euclidian Room", which was used for meetings and community events. Euclid Square Mall started dying when Kaufmann's (formerly May Company) closed its store in 1998, shortly after they opened a new store at the newly remodeled (and renamed) Richmond Town Square, itself a once-dying mall that Debartolo never put much money into, but Simon extensively remodeled.) Euclid Square Mall was once owned by Jacobs, Visconsi, and Jacobs, then was sold to Heywood Whichard once the mall started losing tenants big time. Dillard's (formerly Higbee's) became an outlet store, and is still open. Otherwise, by the beginning of 2003, the mall pretty much closed. Tenants on outlets included a Fazio's supermarket (closed as a Rini Rego Stop-N-Shop in the early 1990's), and a Toys R Us (opened 1985 and closed 2002). In late 2004, Euclid Square Mall reopened as "Outlets USA", which is basically the former May Company/Kaufmann's store reopened as a discount furniture store as well as other businesses selling things such as clothing, tools, housewares, and art. Other Outlets USA tenants that later left the mall included a vendor selling single serve slices of wedding cake, and a vendor selling used DVD's and VHS tapes. A hot dog stand reopened, and an Italian restaurant opened in the former Rogers Jewelers. Most of the Outlets USA activity is centered at the former Kaufmann's and the storefronts adjacent. The Euclidian Room is still in use today for meetings. The operators of Outlets USA purchased Euclid Square Mall from Whichard in early 2004. Whether this format will save Euclid Square Mall remains to be seen in the long term, but I am glad that it is there, giving local businesses a way to get started. ### "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 31, 200618 yr Interesting news, this is the first I have heard of it. The one article from the Middletown Journal on this subject appeared in September. You can read it in the following thead: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=6960.0
December 31, 200618 yr Other Outlets USA tenants that later left the mall included a vendor selling single serve slices of wedding cake, and a vendor selling used DVD's and VHS tapes. I really thought the wedding cake place would turn things around.
December 31, 200618 yr I really thought the wedding cake place would turn things around. LOL! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 31, 200618 yr Why do all the mall addresses read Franklin if the mall is in Middletown? The land was originally part of Franklin Township before Middletown annexed it in the early to mid 1990s, hence the Franklin address. Interestingly enough, they all have Middletown telephone exchanges and the land has long been part of the Middletown School District. City officials have tried several times to get the post office to change the city designation, with no avail.
December 31, 200618 yr Other Outlets USA tenants that later left the mall included a vendor selling single serve slices of wedding cake, and a vendor selling used DVD's and VHS tapes. I really thought the wedding cake place would turn things around. I'm really sorry I missed out on that! The only reason I go to weddings is for the cake; I can't stand the rest of the fol-de-rol! :roll:
January 1, 200718 yr Those are very good points. My brother and I stopped at Bridgewater Falls on our way home from Kenwood. He wanted to go to Best Buy. He was pretty impressed with the complex. It looks as if it is starting to fill up. They have an advantage over the Streets of W.C. in that they have two big anchor stores--J.C. Penny and Target. I think part of Streets of West Chester's problem is that at the time it was proposed and being built, there were like two other open air proposals for Union Centre as well (remember Jackson, Michigan-based Jacobson's department store was supposed to built at one before they went out of business). And then along came Voice of America Center. I personally think the layout of SofWC is poor, and really, there is nothing there other than a few good restaurants and a bookstore. But from a retail standpoint, not much of a draw. Plus no department stores and not much other retail on that side of the Union Centre. I'm really surprised that no offiical statement has been made about this project in the papers seeing how so many stores are closing and teh employees are telling customers what's going on.
January 1, 200718 yr I think the Streets of West Chester is sadly the best design faux "lifestyle center" we have in the Cincinnati area. The Greene in Dayton is better than all of them here. Bridgewater Falls while better than Deerfield's embarrassment of a town center is a far cry from a good design.
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