The top and bottom of that picture shows the elevation views from the west and north  - nothing worth seeing (but if you click around that loopnet site, they show up more clearly). It's sad when a Target on Brookpark Road has a nicer facade that this proposal, and that's saying a lot.

Here is what the joint Lakewood-Cleveland development guideplan for the West 117th corridor shows for that area. I wrote the article for Sun about this when the City of Cleveland, which led this guideplan effort, released the first drafts of it probably 3-5 years ago. The block in question was to have attached townhouses/cluster housing built over stores facing Clifton, and attached single-family townhomes facing Lake. Between them, the city envisioned a parking deck perhaps two levels high.....

 

Just saw this on Cudell Snippets. This place is located on Clifton at West 116th....

 

Papa Nick's Pizza & Pasta Celebrating 30 Years!

 

When you stop by Papa Nick's for that mouth watering pizza and pasta, make sure to extend congratulations to Phil and familly on their 30 years of business in the neighborhood.

An overview shows where the retail strip would be located on Clifton Boulevard.

 

Retail strip being proposed on Clifton Boulevard in Cleveland

Published: Friday, November 25, 2011, 10:09 AM

  By Ken Prendergast, Sun News

 

CLEVELAND Plans for a retail strip that would replace an aging, highly visible building were made public by a retail broker.

 

The Shoppes on Clifton, to be located at West 117th Street and Clifton Boulevard, is being marketed on the Internet by retail broker Arnold J. Eisenberg Inc. for Carnegie Companies, the property owner.

 

Its promotional materials note that Carnegie Companies would like to start construction on the roughly 34,000-square-foot retail strip in the summer of 2012.

 

The Shoppes on Clifton could be divided into two single-level buildings, separated by an 8-foot-wide pedestrian “breezeway,” as shown on two variations of preliminary site plans. Promotional documents also reveal that a 25,000-square-foot anchor store for the larger building is pending and “to be announced.” Both preliminary site plans, available at LoopNet.com, show the anchor store with a drive-through window and a truck loading dock.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2011/11/retail_strip_being_proposed_on.html

Hmmm....At least the parking is in the back... However, I wish we'd implement more underground parking instead of these surface lots...which, anyway, are not....no mater how many spaces reserved, conducive to the needs of the "army of sick" with "obese-abilities!" that will patronize. Nor are they compatible with the weather... Go underground if you must have this kind of parking...not on the surface.  Its not as though we do not know how to do this here and have not...  Galleria at Erieview is a good example of a well done underground garage.  Oh, I know.. I know.. "It would cost too much" Yeah, yeah... always having to settle. 

Anchor store with a drive thru window?

 

Could Starbucks be relocating? 

 

Or does the world need another Walgreens?  Yikes ;)

Hmmm....At least the parking is in the back... However, I wish we'd implement more underground parking instead of these surface lots...which, anyway, are not....no mater how many spaces reserved, conducive to the needs of the "army of sick" with "obese-abilities!" that will patronize. Nor are they compatible with the weather... Go underground if you must have this kind of parking...not on the surface.  Its not as though we do not know how to do this here and have not...  Galleria at Erieview is a good example of a well done underground garage.  Oh, I know.. I know.. "It would cost too much" Yeah, yeah... always having to settle. 

 

 

Wow, you really are clueless, aren't you?  It would cost way too much for a smallish retail strip to put parking underground.  They wouldn't be able to build at all.  That's not having to settle, that's the economic reality.  If you knew anything about real estate or development you would know that.

^Actually, believe it or not, most progressive cities build parking underground even in the tightest blocks. Toronto is my favorite example of an underground city. But then again, every city except our has experienced a brain surge, much on the account of our brain drain.

I'm sure the economic feasibility of going underground with parking is unrealistic, but personally I like the idea of 2nd or even 3rd floor residential sitting above covered parking for residents/shoppers integrated in the project.   

 

Although I hate to invoke it, picture a miniature Crocker park style building.  Two to three stories including a setback to view the church from the W 117/Clifton intersection.  Market-rate apartments upstairs and a decent-quality national chain downstairs.  Would love to see a relocated Starbucks and a good-quality sports bar (even a national chain) as a replacement for Johhny Malloys.

^Actually, believe it or not, most progressive cities build parking underground even in the tightest blocks. Toronto is my favorite example of an underground city. But then again, every city except our has experienced a brain surge, much on the account of our brain drain.

 

Who pays for putting the parking underground? Surely not the developer/property owner. I could see the city or a crown corporation doing it, but it wouldn't be cost effective otherwise.

 

Anyhow, this is a tiny development. And although it does not conform to the city's guideplan, there's nothing that requires them to do so.

Hmmm....At least the parking is in the back... However, I wish we'd implement more underground parking instead of these surface lots...which, anyway, are not....no mater how many spaces reserved, conducive to the needs of the "army of sick" with "obese-abilities!" that will patronize. Nor are they compatible with the weather... Go underground if you must have this kind of parking...not on the surface.  Its not as though we do not know how to do this here and have not...  Galleria at Erieview is a good example of a well done underground garage.  Oh, I know.. I know.. "It would cost too much" Yeah, yeah... always having to settle. 

 

 

Wow, you really are clueless, aren't you?  It would cost way too much for a smallish retail strip to put parking underground.  They wouldn't be able to build at all.  That's not having to settle, that's the economic reality.  If you knew anything about real estate or development you would know that.

 

There's no need for personal insults.

There's a Constantino's just a few blocks away. This area doesn't need more grocery. You've got two Giant Eagle's a mile away in either direction and Sapell's a block south. While Trader Joe's offers a niche brand, I don't think the volume is there in that particular spot to sustain their model. I think that Constantino's moving a few blocks down and expanding would be a better neighborhood fit. I'd also like to see more restaurants with patios, the wine bar down the street can't meet the demand.

 

I think Constantinos should move into the old city owned church. Put in a full wine selection, patio, bakery, sell some organic type foods, some quality prepared food for taking home, and there you have it - pedestrian, transit, and auto traffic have a good quick stop place.

 

I think that church would make a good micro-brewery or distillery. How does Edgewater whiskey sound?

 

As far as a new grocery store goes, I think a layout with parking on the roof level may be feasible. Underground parking would not happen unless a residential building was part of the development, which unfortunately does not appear to be in the cards.

This is one of the few areas in the metro that already has good residential density.  A microbrew/distillery would fit in perfectly!

 

Does Sappells own the entire parking lot around its store?  That lot is absolutely huge and I've never seen it more than 1/3 utilized.  It could easily serve the whole neighborhood, but there's often a tow truck just sitting there like a vulture, waiting to screw somebody.

I think putting a microbrewery in that church in that neighborhood would be like building a cash printing press. That's an awesome idea!

 

And you got it -- the parking for Sapell's, which includes the paved area where the storage area for Bahr's Lumber once stood, is way too huge. It's needs something there. Maybe that's the best place for a microbrewery, space-wise.

Well there is a Church Brewery in Pittsburgh.

 

http://www.churchbrew.com/

 

It looks like they would have an ideal spot to set up shop if they wanted to expand to the Cleveland market.

http://www.churchbrew.com/

 

 

What an amazing photograph!!!

 

OK, how about we contact these folks to see if they would expand to a Cleveland location?

Plenty of beautiful vacant Catholic churches

Shhhh. I want my neighborhood's church repurposed!

Word on the street is that Gepettos/Johnny Malloys on the corner of Clifton and W117 is closing on Wed. This could be the start of demolition for their building along with the former Giant Eagle next door.

^and is it correct that nothing is currently planned for the block?

^and is it correct that nothing is currently planned for the block?

 

If I remember the original article correctly, the property owner reasoned it would be more marketable if the entire lot was cleared. Then there were renderings that suggested a drug store or Marcs type of development. But really I have no solid information on this. 

^and is it correct that nothing is currently planned for the block?

They have a ridiculous looking strip center planned, pending leases.  But I'm hoping that it doesn't progress in its current form and reverts back to a mixed use, dense project. 

 

The whole idea of demolition the block is to better attract tenants for the strip center.   

Yea please not another drug store! This area definitively deserves a 4-5 mixed use project.

Another drug store would be terrible for that intersection...there's already one huge parking log and a gas station which is essentially nothing but a parking lot.

Prime site for TOD, especially since RTA is pushing significant work on Clifton.

Oh please, not a strip mall.  That's horrible news if true. 

 

 

 

 

From page 12:

 

"With funding from Cleveland’s Economic Development Department, Cudell Improvement Inc. sought bids from consultants to conduct an environmental assessment of demolishing the commercial strip along Clifton Boulevard between West 116th and 117th streets.

 

The building houses the combined Geppetto’s and Johnny Malloy’s sports bar, which is on a month-to-month lease. But most of the rest of the building has been vacant since Giant Eagle moved its grocery store next to Interstate 90 in 2008."

 

Full article: 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2011/11/cudell_improvement_doing_study.html

If this does revert to strip retail, in such an urbanized (and desirable) high-density neighborhood, it shows once again our leaders are failing us, and that we collectively don't get the whole urban thing (as Geo. H.W. Bush might say).  There's no excuse for this.

It's confirmed and the article will appear this Thursday. The combined Geppetto’s-Johnny Malloy’s closed Oct. 24. An application to demolish the buildings between West 116th-117th on the north side of Clifton will be on the docket of the Landmarks Commission Nov. 8.

It's confirmed and the article will appear this Thursday. The combined Geppetto’s-Johnny Malloy’s closed Oct. 24. An application to demolish the buildings between West 116th-117th on the north side of Clifton will be on the docket of the Landmarks Commission Nov. 8.

 

Curious. Anyone here who is actually optimistic about this?

For what it's worth, the real estate climate for developers and lenders is much improved over where it's been the last few years.  That is such a high traffic corner, I have to remain optimistic that something of merit goes back there.  Having said that, I'd love to see the Planning/Landmarks commission deny the demo permit until firm plans are in place for something else. 

I would be happy if the CDC at least proposed a desirable plan.  I only bring this up because the plan we've seen is not desirable.

If CDC is involved it will be a strip mall.  No offense to them and I will leave out names, but they are so backward in their thinking it might as well be 1973.  And the neighborhood design review will spend more time hassling homeowners over the proper windows or siding color than deciding on this crucial development for the neighborhood.  It will be a rubber-stamping for a developer.

 

I'd love to see a little Crocker-park style development on that site with street level retail, office and residential above with  hidden parking around the back.

 

But we might as well resign ourselves to a Walgreens.  No imagination.  :x

That goes beyond lack of imagination, that is incompetence.  There is a way to do things in 2012 and either they're up to speed or they're not.  Sounds like they're not.  And that is a problem the community needs to address.  There can be no improvement if the people guiding the process are this lost.

So what's a constructive way of addressing this?  (or is that another thread)

 

 

So what's a constructive way of addressing this?  (or is that another thread)

 

 

 

Cudell does have a Facebook page.  We can sound off there. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/152391705199/?ref=ts&fref=ts

 

But, I'll warn you in the past I've seen comments they see counter to their beliefs get deleted.  They don't understand social media. 

 

There is always the good old-fashioned telephone also:  216-228-4383. 

 

And where does Jay Westbrook stand on this issue?

If CDC is involved it will be a strip mall.  No offense to them and I will leave out names, but they are so backward in their thinking it might as well be 1973.  And the neighborhood design review will spend more time hassling homeowners over the proper windows or siding color than deciding on this crucial development for the neighborhood.  It will be a rubber-stamping for a developer.

 

I'd love to see a little Crocker-park style development on that site with street level retail, office and residential above with  hidden parking around the back.

 

But we might as well resign ourselves to a Walgreens.  No imagination.  :x

Why leave out names? Aren't they considered public employees/servants. They are responsible for general urban planning that affects local residents. Why hide?

I lived in this neighborhood last year and I really loved it.  I loved that Johnny Malloy's because it was close to me, a lot closer than the admittedly better stuff on Detroit.  But that stuff wasn't far away either.  Even with the grocery store empty, and Truffles gone, and more panhandlers than you might expect, this area still offers the city's best overall living experience.  Young, old, doesn't matter.  It's great.

 

Do not tear down old buildings with no plan for growth.  Another 1-story strip plaza there is not growth.  They can't possibly put any more drug stores, there's already two.  An empty lot there is more attractive to whom?  Hole in the bucket.  If we want to subsidize site clearance for an actual development, fine.  I'm all for it.  But don't just tear things down because you think that's better.  That is not better.  That is acceleration of blight. 

 

In the CDC thread, I mentioned that there are conflicts of interest at play.  If you own that lot, or you're hired to sell it, and you're stuck with an obsolete grocery space, with a historic building that limits your parking lot, that's a loser-- and all you want to do is get shed of it.  Site clearance would make it more marketable but that's expensive.  Ideally, you'd want the citizens to pay for your site clearance, and then sell to the first taker regardless of their plan.  That's your best outcome, and that seems to be what the CDC is working toward.  What exactly is their mission?

If CDC is involved it will be a strip mall.  No offense to them and I will leave out names, but they are so backward in their thinking it might as well be 1973.  And the neighborhood design review will spend more time hassling homeowners over the proper windows or siding color than deciding on this crucial development for the neighborhood.  It will be a rubber-stamping for a developer.

 

I'd love to see a little Crocker-park style development on that site with street level retail, office and residential above with  hidden parking around the back.

 

But we might as well resign ourselves to a Walgreens.  No imagination.  :x

Why leave out names? Aren't they considered public employees/servants. They are responsible for general urban planning that affects local residents. Why hide?

 

Its pretty easy to look up and find yourself.  Not everyone here is in the position to be naming names.

I lived in this neighborhood last year and I really loved it.  I loved that Johnny Malloy's because it was close to me, a lot closer than the admittedly better stuff on Detroit.  But that stuff wasn't far away either.  Even with the grocery store empty, and Truffles gone, and more panhandlers than you might expect, this area still offers the city's best overall living experience.  Young, old, doesn't matter.  It's great.

 

Do not tear down old buildings with no plan for growth.  Another 1-story strip plaza there is not growth.  They can't possibly put any more drug stores, there's already two.  An empty lot there is more attractive to whom?  Hole in the bucket.  If we want to subsidize site clearance for an actual development, fine.  I'm all for it.  But don't just tear things down because you think that's better.  That is not better.  That is acceleration of blight. 

 

In the CDC thread, I mentioned that there are conflicts of interest at play.  If you own that lot, or you're hired to sell it, and you're stuck with an obsolete grocery space, with a historic building that limits your parking lot, that's a loser-- and all you want to do is get shed of it.  Site clearance would make it more marketable but that's expensive.  Ideally, you'd want the citizens to pay for your site clearance, and then sell to the first taker regardless of their plan.  That's your best outcome, and that seems to be what the CDC is working toward.  What exactly is their mission?

 

Indeed 327.  As I keep saying this should be the city's premier neighborhood, which is why I have been so persistent in my criticism of spread of crime through this area. 

 

Just remember, not everyone has the same definition of progress (as I'm sure you have witnessed on this board).  But certainly this area shouldn't be getting the same treatment as an abandon parcel in Mt. Pleasant or Central and yes we should expect and demand better. 

If CDC is involved it will be a strip mall.  No offense to them and I will leave out names, but they are so backward in their thinking it might as well be 1973.  And the neighborhood design review will spend more time hassling homeowners over the proper windows or siding color than deciding on this crucial development for the neighborhood.  It will be a rubber-stamping for a developer.

 

I'd love to see a little Crocker-park style development on that site with street level retail, office and residential above with  hidden parking around the back.

 

But we might as well resign ourselves to a Walgreens.  No imagination.  :x

Why leave out names? Aren't they considered public employees/servants. They are responsible for general urban planning that affects local residents. Why hide?

 

Its pretty easy to look up and find yourself.  Not everyone here is in the position to be naming names.

 

Yeah and considering only a couple people work there it's not too tough!

 

I have been an outspoken critic of them since moving into the neighborhood.  No offense but we need new fresh leadership. Not someone that takes their check every year to promote the Clifton Arts and Music Fest (lame) and spinning snowmen on the sides of three buildings during Christmas.  There is so much more they should be doing and fall back on the things they know.  Year after year after year.

Couldnt agree more Cleburger.  I used to know some great outspoken people in the hood that shad a way of balancing the lack of leadership at that CDC, but they are gone.  Glad to hear you are there and "taking notice".

Clifton retail strip demolition awaits approval from Cleveland

Published: Saturday, November 03, 2012, 9:57 AM    Updated: Saturday, November 03, 2012, 9:58 AM

  By Ken Prendergast, Sun News

 

CLEVELAND Demolition of a retail strip at Clifton Boulevard and West 117th Street could be approved by the city as early as Nov. 8. However, the land could sit empty for a while as no new building is immediately planned and no tenants are signed.

 

The combined Johnny Malloy’s-Geppetto’s at 11636 Clifton Blvd., which occupied the corner storefront in recent years, closed Oct. 24. Calls to that store are being answered by the Lakewood store, 17103 Detroit Ave. at Cordova Avenue.

 

Johnny Malloy’s-Geppetto’s was on a month-to-month lease at the retail plaza, owned by Carnegie Cos. Inc. Carnegie last year announced it was seeking to demolish the retail strip for a new one called the Shoppes on Clifton.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2012/11/clifton_retail_strip_demolitio.html#incart_river_default

There have been quite a few rumblings and rumors that Heinen's was interested in this corner parcel. Anyone have any more light to shed on that possible scenario?

 

The demo a block south at the old JD Byrider made that area look AWFUL, so I can't imagine what a demo would look like here.  The old church would stick out like a sore thumb, perhaps making that seem more marketable? But, I'd surely be afraid of several years worth of an empty/gravel/weed/and trash strewn lot.

 

Worst Case Scenario: The strip mall plaza ... an absolute atrocity! The Cudell CDC should be fighting tooth and nail against that. If a Dollar General type anchor were to pop in there, all hope is lost for the church and the other commercial properties on that strip.

 

Best Case Scenario: You'd have a 4-6 story mixed use development here with first floor commercial. But I just don't see that going over given the housing saturation for that particular area and parking constraints.

 

At this point, I'd say the best realistic and viable short term scenario would be something like a Heinen's or a Trader Joe's taking up the entire block with parking in the back. That'd really make the Gold Coast and Edgewater/Clifton neighborhood's housing stock more marketable and solidify this area as a truly walkable/transit friendly neighborhood.

 

Tomorrow is both the demolition hearing for this plot and the town hall meeting for enhance Clifton so we should have a clearer picture of what will be taking shape here. This area will hopefully be entirely transformed for the better by this time next year. ::fingers crossed::

Would there be room for something like that on the JD Byrider lot?  Heinens would be great on that corner (where are you hearing this), but didn't the Giant Eagle complain about parking?  They wanted to tear down the church for more I thought.  Maybe that was just a dog and pony show to break their lease. 

 

I don't think housing saturation should be a major worry anywhere in Cleveland.  Moreover, I think housing saturation is a worthy goal.  Anywhere in Cleveland.  Stack em up.  Let's go.  Every time I bring up supporting retail, the problem is that we don't have enough people concentrated in a little place.  Let's do it right here.  Got a good head start already.  Supposedly that's the only reason an already densely populated middle class urban neighborhood on the lake has so little retail.

Would there be room for something like that on the JD Byrider lot?  Heinens would be great on that corner (where are you hearing this), 

 

Someone posted the same rumor after my Sun article.

 

 

but didn't the Giant Eagle complain about parking?  They wanted to tear down the church for more I thought.  Maybe that was just a dog and pony show to break their lease.

 

Giant Eagle didn't break their lease. It expired only very recently, so Big Bird was paying Carnegie for a grocery store hadn't been there since 2008. And Johhny Malloy's was on a month-to-month lease.

I saw a brief blurb on Heinen's facebook page where someone commented about the new location. Someone at Heinen's deleted the comment. Something is definitely going on,  but I'm sure all parties involved are trying to keep mum. I don't want to get excited yet because rumors are rumors.

I saw a brief blurb on Heinen's facebook page where someone commented about the new location. Someone at Heinen's deleted the comment. Something is definitely going on,  but I'm sure all parties involved are trying to keep mum. I don't want to get excited yet because rumors are rumors.

 

Oh they can try to delete it! But they can't delete everything.......

 

This is Google's cache of http://www.facebook.com/heinens?ref=search&sid=552557346.2991610295..1&v=wall&filter=2 . It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Oct 31, 2012 07:30:56 GMT.

 

Here is your grocery store. Nice to see the interest in the neighborhood. Not in love with the buildings positioning.