so has anyone written to Jay Westbrook about anti parking-in-front strip mall look vs. streetside parking-in-back design?  Or should we all tag team this effort.

I find it very curious that the site demo fencing surrounds the church AND the site plans posted on the City of Cleveland Landmarks Commission site very clearly show Proposed Building 'A' at the current location of the church.  (http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2012/11292012/index.php)

 

On the other hand, KJP's recent post provides some excellent information about how removal of the church is a multi-step process and none of the steps are complete...

 

This one is going to be very interesting to watch how it unfolds...

I do think it very presumptuous for the fence to surround the church. It does not surround the KeyBank ATM, which is still accessible to the public.

 

I also was intrigued by the site plan for the demolition of the retail strip, as a post-demolition site plan is required before demolition can be approved. Carnegie could have submitted any site plan, including the plan it had developed a year ago showing no change to the church. The fact that the site plan they submitted showed the church replaced with a new retail building DID get me thinking -- but not about the immediate demolition of the church.

 

INSTEAD it got me wondering if Carnegie was trying to buy the church from the city. That's why I called Councilman Westbrook last month to inquire if the city was in discussions with Carnegie to sell the church, and Westbrook confirmed it.

 

If the city sells the church, then that is one step closer to a new fate being decided for the church. What fate? We'll see what happens next. It's all about process.

so has anyone written to Jay Westbrook about anti parking-in-front strip mall look vs. streetside parking-in-back design?  Or should we all tag team this effort.

 

I have emailed Jay and will do so again today.  No matter what happens with the church I am concerned that we get something that makes sense on the overall site. 

 

I'm still crossing my fingers for mixed use, hopefully including a bar and coffee shop!

This was a fun article to research, write and photograph.......

 

Cleveland's West 117th Street has become grocery store row

Published: Friday, December 28, 2012, 10:03 AM    Updated: Friday, December 28, 2012, 10:04 AM

  By Ken Prendergast, Sun News

 

If you can’t find a special New Year’s dish or the weekly groceries you’re looking for, then you probably aren’t looking along West 117th Street.

 

The busy, three-mile-long street that divides Lakewood and Cleveland for a stretch is a Mecca of markets. It already hosts eight grocery stores that have addresses or driveways on West 117th. A ninth grocery store is on the way and a 10th grocery store is proposed.

 

Plus there are three more grocery stores within a half-mile of West 117th and a fourth due to open nearby in the spring.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2012/12/clevelands_west_117th_street_h.html

 

 

List of grocery stores on West 117th Street in Cleveland is a long one

Published: Friday, December 28, 2012, 10:19 AM    Updated: Friday, December 28, 2012, 10:19 AM

  By Ken Prendergast, Sun News

 

Can you name all eight grocery stores with an address or driveway on West 117th Street? If not, here they are from north to south:

 

+ Sapell’s Bi-Rite, 1314 W. 117th, Lakewood;

+ Aldi, 1600 W. 117th, Lakewood;

+ Giant Eagle, 3050 W. 117th, Cleveland;

+ Target, 3100 W. 117th, Cleveland;

+ Al-Manar Market, 3279 W. 117th, Cleveland;

+ HolyLand Imported Goods, 11717 Lorain, Cleveland;

+ Alba Fresh Market, 3353 W. 117th, Cleveland;

+ West Town Village Market, 3645 W. 117th, Cleveland;

 

Construction is due to start by spring on the ninth store, Gordon Food Service Marketplace, 1363 W. 117th, just north of Detroit Avenue in Cleveland.

 

A 10th grocery store is proposed at Clifton Boulevard and West 117th but no tenant has been signed.

 

Plus there are three more grocery stores within a half-mile of West 117th on major cross streets:

 

+ Madison Bi-Rite, 12503 Madison Ave., Lakewood;

+ Mi Pueblo Mercado y Taqueria, 12207 Lorain, Cleveland;

+ Almadina Imported Foods, 11550 Lorain, Cleveland;

 

A fourth grocer, Save-A-Lot, is due to open by spring 2013 a half-mile off West 117th at Westown Plaza, 10950 Lorain, next to Shoppers World.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2012/12/list_of_grocery_stores_on_west.html

I do think it very presumptuous for the fence to surround the church. It does not surround the KeyBank ATM, which is still accessible to the public.

 

I also was intrigued by the site plan for the demolition of the retail strip, as a post-demolition site plan is required before demolition can be approved. Carnegie could have submitted any site plan, including the plan it had developed a year ago showing no change to the church. The fact that the site plan they submitted showed the church replaced with a new retail building DID get me thinking -- but not about the immediate demolition of the church.

 

INSTEAD it got me wondering if Carnegie was trying to buy the church from the city. That's why I called Councilman Westbrook last month to inquire if the city was in discussions with Carnegie to sell the church, and Westbrook confirmed it.

 

If the city sells the church, then that is one step closer to a new fate being decided for the church. What fate? We'll see what happens next. It's all about process.

 

I spoke to one of the business owners near this corner over the break about the latest developments.  He said the Edgewater Homeowners & preservation group are circling their wagons ready to defend the church from any demolition plans.  He mentioned the amount of money they claim to have in a legal fund was in the tens of thousands and they're prepared to exhaust it all to block any demolition efforts.  All hearsay of course but interesting nonetheless.  Makes me think nothing will happen in this regard at least till spring.  Bare minimum, MUCH larger equipment will need to be brought in to demo that church.  And like KJP already said, the historic designation will need to be removed.

If the neighbors have that much money available, then maybe the city should keep the church, renovate it as a community/recreation center, and then use the neighborhood fund to help leverage grants for programming at the facility?

Info coming soon.

SAVE FIFTH CHURCH BUILDING! - If you're interested in saving the building from possible demolition OR at the very least, ensuring the entire main entrance arch is incorporated into the overall site's development plans, please email me at [email protected]

 

We must unify as a neighborhood immediately and have our voices heard.

 

Could you give us some more background on why you feel/think/know it will be demolished? We're level-headed people here and we really dig balanced, well-articulated arguments.

I am also interested to know, and I may contact you for an upcoming article in Sun Newspapers. In the meantime please see the post I wrote here on this page, dated Dec. 28.

My guess is they also saw the photos and commentary at the following link:

 

http://christographycle.com/2013/01/28/abandoned-cleveland-fifth-church-of-christ-scientist/

I'm certain this strip mall is going to depress me.

I'm certain this strip mall is going to depress me.

\

 

I also fear the worst.  Sending another email to Jay Westbrook right now.

Just checked out the Heinen's facebook page. 

 

A woman asked about that site again yesterday.  Here was the Heinen's response:

 

"Heinen's Hi Nicole, although we are always looking for opportunities in the Cleveland area, there is nothing imminent."

Yeah, I let go of the Heinen's dream awhile go.  Now I'm hoping for Trader Joe's.

 

Who knows if the site owner is making an offer that is even appealing?  It may be awhile on this one.

 

 

Just checked out the Heinen's facebook page. 

 

A woman asked about that site again yesterday.  Here was the Heinen's response:

 

"Heinen's Hi Nicole, although we are always looking for opportunities in the Cleveland area, there is nothing imminent."

 

chipotle said the same thing though

chipotle said the same thing though

 

Exactly. That's what was called a "non-denial denial" during the Watergate scandal.

Just checked out the Heinen's facebook page. 

 

A woman asked about that site again yesterday.  Here was the Heinen's response:

 

"Heinen's Hi Nicole, although we are always looking for opportunities in the Cleveland area, there is nothing imminent."

 

chipotle said the same thing though

 

Makes sense.  If you're trying to play hard to get with a developer the last thing to do would be go on Facebook screaming "YES WE WANT TO BE ON THAT CORNER!!" ;)

That corner is a gold mine for a decent grocery store between pop density and the amount of upper income west suburbanites that commute past it everyday. The CVS is supposedly the best performing in the metro.

 

I will take any of the above stores.

(February 14, 2013 - NewsChannel 5)

Historic Cleveland Church to be Demolished for Revitalization Project on W. 117th Street

 

http://www.newsnet5.com//dpp/news/local_news/oh_cuyahoga/Historic-Cleveland-church-to-be-demolished-for-revitalization-project-on-West-117th-Street

 

A response to the news as well as a petition for a Town Hall Meeting is posted on www.SaveFifthChurch.com

(February 14, 2013 - NewsChannel 5)

Historic Cleveland Church to be Demolished for Revitalization Project on W. 117th Street

 

http://www.newsnet5.com//dpp/news/local_news/oh_cuyahoga/Historic-Cleveland-church-to-be-demolished-for-revitalization-project-on-West-117th-Street

 

A response to the news as well as a petition for a Town Hall Meeting is posted on www.SaveFifthChurch.com

 

What a horrible excuse for journalism. The only sentence of value in that entire article was the last one, which debunked the rest of the article.

 

Oh and by the way, this bit of hyperbole was downright laughable:

 

Along with their migration to the suburbs also went a Rini-Rego grocery store, which was sold to Giant Eagle. It was a cornerstone of foot traffic at West 117th Street and Clifton Avenue's economy.

 

That store moved from one address in Cleveland to another in Cleveland.

 

If there is an application made to remove the church's landmark status, then the church is in danger of demolition.

It's naive to think this church isn't in danger of being torn down in the next few years. I applaud all PROACTIVE efforts to save this structure now. We've seen it before. Look at all the historic churches on Euclid. Their days have been numbered for some time without ever being in IMMINENT danger of facing the wrecking ball. Yet every year, one more gets checked off the demo list.

 

Look at how quickly the Columbia building vanished downtown. It takes a lot of effort well before a legitimate demolition plan is brought forward to save an historic structure.

An organized campaign to save the church is most certainly justified. But an article saying the church is due to be demolished is not. A journalist reports the news. He/she doesn't predict the news.

 

If anything, the news here is that neighbors are worried that the church is in danger of being demolished and are forming a campaign to stop it. Even a lazy reporter could report that. And that's a good story to report.

 

But a journalist would dig deeper and find a more troubling story. The church's owner is the City of Cleveland, which doesn't aggressively pursue property owners who are neglecting their properties. In fact, many appear to be intentionally neglecting them so that they can someday say the property would cost too much to rehab and therefore gain the blessings of the city to demolish it. Well, now it appears the city has also adopted this practice of planned neglect to ultimately warrant razing. I'm aware the city has turned down offers from developers to rehab the church, claiming that the developer wasn't a reputable investor (ie: has a felony record). City officials also say they turned down those offers because neighbors do not want a restaurant/bar in that building. Is that true? Now THAT's a news story.

Is there actual merit to your claims KJP?  I can't tell if you are speculating or stating fact.  It would be a great story, and perhaps something that could be done with a claim to public records/emails surrounding the City of Cleveland landmark commission?

Is there actual merit to your claims KJP?  I can't tell if you are speculating or stating fact.  It would be a great story, and perhaps something that could be done with a claim to public records/emails surrounding the City of Cleveland landmark commission?

 

I have been contacted by two persons who said their proposals to reuse the church were rebuffed by the city. One was a convicted felon but who has other bars/nightclubs in the city -- some of which have been the source of nuisance complaints.

 

Question is, which is better? A demolished church for a retail strip or a refurbished church with a bar/nightclub that could be a neighborhood nuisance. I think that's a worthy discussion and I believe one that a TV station/radio station/newspaper should be encouraging.

i haven't been by the site (yet) and i am not acquainted with that neighborhood in great depth - does the building have any residential potential?

i haven't been by the site (yet) and i am not acquainted with that neighborhood in great depth - does the building have any residential potential?

 

None. It's a big open rotunda. I would make for a great community center, bookstore, nightclub, restaurant, library, recreation center, etc. The last one is no joke. It is big enough you could probably have an NBA-sized basketball court in there with bleachers on both sides.

Wow, this site that KJP linked to is pretty impressive (http://www.savefifthchurch.com/)  Whoever put that together presents a pretty compelling picture of what could be...  The link to the Walgreen's that went into a very similar structure in Chicago's Wicker Park area completely blew me away - this was one of the most amazing repurposing's I've ever seen.  The site also has several Cleveland area repurposings that could be applied to this location. 

 

Personally, I think we have another demo at hand - after all, this is Cleveland and the developers decide what happens and the developers like clean slates.  I'll shut up now before I say what I really think of developers in Cleveland...

Wow, this site that KJP linked to is pretty impressive (http://www.savefifthchurch.com/)  Whoever put that together presents a pretty compelling picture of what could be...  The link to the Walgreen's that went into a very similar structure in Chicago's Wicker Park area completely blew me away - this was one of the most amazing repurposing's I've ever seen.  The site also has several Cleveland area repurposings that could be applied to this location. 

 

Personally, I think we have another demo at hand - after all, this is Cleveland and the developers decide what happens and the developers like clean slates.  I'll shut up now before I say what I really think of developers in Cleveland...

 

Perhaps someone from that site should do a business plan and run the numbers and show how this building could be profitable as any of those suggested uses?  The building needs massive renovation, inside & out.  Even after that, the build out would be extensive for just about any of the suggested uses.  The neighborhood wants the building saved but doesn't want a bar or nightclub.  A bookstore won't generate enough rent.  What are we left with?

> What are we left with?

 

The faint hope that an angel investor swoops in and saves the day?

 

What I would like to see is how much the city has invested in this structure in the years since it has owned it?  I have a feeling that those figures would be compelling to justify demolition.  It seems as if the city has not done as well as they could have from a stewardship perspective but that is a separate seemingly systemic issue with local governance. 

 

 

 

 

If any reutilization of this structure is going to occur, it's going to take a lot of public subsidy, bare minimum Historic tax credits, and probably some additional low interest loans

What I would like to see is how much the city has invested in this structure in the years since it has owned it?  I have a feeling that those figures would be compelling to justify demolition. 

 

This makes no sense to me. Even in the the city theoretically spent nothing on this building, that's quite a leap to suggest that fact justifies demolition.

 

 

Restoring a couple of the articles lost in the server crash.....

 

Fifth Church in Cleveland has long history of revamps that did not happen

By Ken Prendergast, Sun News

on May 03, 2013 at 11:50 AM, updated May 03, 2013 at 11:51 AM

 

CLEVELAND A large redevelopment plan was submitted for the vacant Fifth Church of Christ Scientist, 11623 Lake Ave., on the border of Lakewood and Cleveland.

 

The project’s principal investor already bought the church, built in 1927, and was ready to move forward.

 

The $4 million investment would come from private financing that was already secured. Two houses on West 117th Street would be demolished for a two-level, 70-car parking deck connected by a walkway over Lake Avenue.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2013/05/fifth_church_in_cleveland_has.html

 

 

Cleveland officials promise no commercial use for Fifth Church site

By Ken Prendergast, Sun News

on July 05, 2013 at 10:27 AM

 

CLEVELAND City officials and Cudell Improvement Inc. announced this week that whatever destiny awaits the vacant Fifth Church of Christ Scientist, 11623 Lake Ave., it won’t be a commercial one.

 

“While a final decision about its future has not been made, the city has committed that the site will not become commercial,” said Ward 16 Councilman Jay Westbrook and Cudell’s Executive Director Anita Brindza in a written statement they jointly released on July 2.

 

The announcement was welcomed by Neighbors In Action which is promoting a concept called Landmark Park that could preserve the church’s portico and possibly other elements of the 1927-built structure. The park could be programmed with community events. The city-owned church has been vacant for more than two decades.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2013/07/cleveland_officials_promise_no.html

Plus a recent article..........

 

Charter school moves into old Medic Drug on Detroit Avenue in Cleveland

By Ken Prendergast, Sun News

on July 11, 2013 at 11:44 AM

 

CLEVELAND A high-profile street corner at the Lakewood border will get an active tenant after five years of being vacant. It is just one of several storefronts in the area getting new occupants.

 

Lake Erie International High School is moving into the 8,000-square-foot former Medic Drug store, 11650 Detroit Ave., said Anita Brindza, executive director at Cudell Improvement Inc.

 

The charter school is relocating from another former drug store at 9200 Madison Ave. That space is due to become a Dollar General store, she said.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2013/07/charter_school_moves_into_old.html

Repost due to server crash.

 

Visit the following link to view the following updates,

http://www.neighborsinaction.info/shoppesonclifton.htm

 

IN THE NEWS (July 11, 2013): Preserving a Cleveland Landmark - in part: Editorial, Sun News

 

A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION! (July 4, 2013): On Tuesday Councilman Westbrook and Anita Brindza, executive director of Cudell Improvement, Inc. released an update on the "Shoppes on Clifton" development as well as Fifth Church of Christ Scientist. Read Joint Statement

 

A Step in the Right Direction, But We Will Continue to Keep a Close Watch!- Read an Official Statement from Neighbors in Action

 

IN THE NEWS: No Commercial Use for Fifth Church Site, Sun News 

By: Ken Prendergast

 

Thank you.

Watching opera VERSUS watching the grass grow!

 

Opera in the Italian Cultural Garden this past Sunday - free wine, delicious pizza for sale, Fiats on display, beautiful singing, and a real sense of pride from neighborhood residents and visitors.

 

View more, www.NeighborsInAction.Info

Can anyone help me understand the relationship between Carnegie Companies and Neighbors in Action?  Neighbors in Action is the PR division of Carnegie?

Can anyone help me understand the relationship between Carnegie Companies and Neighbors in Action?  Neighbors in Action is the PR division of Carnegie?

 

Neighbors in Action is a local activist group that opposed the site plan from Carnegie companies for the "Shoppes on Clifton" project. The tentative site plan we all wrung our hands over showed a crappy one floor shopping plaza with parking along the sidewalk in front of the building.

 

I believe the site plan also showed the abandoned church at the corner would be demo'ed for parking. It sounds like they (the NiB) hounded the CDC and city council to force Carnegie to re-evaluate the proposed layout.

Ah, I remember Neighbors in Action as the group that came up with come outstanding reuse options for the Church and then out of nowhere changed course and suggested demolishing the church. I'm just a layman that doesn't really understand these types of things though. Just trying to understand....

Ah, I remember Neighbors in Action as the group that came up with come outstanding reuse options for the Church and then out of nowhere changed course and suggested demolishing the church. I'm just a layman that doesn't really understand these types of things though. Just trying to understand....

 

Yeah, it does seem like they changed course on the church. The last proposal basically showed the main church structure being leveled, with just the entry way still standing. I don't know what changed, or if it was a last ditch effort to save something of the church. Who knows.

Pending final Council approval, Cleveland Municpal Court will lease office space for the Adult Probation Department at 1449 West 117th Street from Montlack Realty.

Pending final Council approval, Cleveland Municpal Court will lease office space for the Adult Probation Department at 1449 West 117th Street from Montlack Realty.

 

:?    Well then maybe Gordon Food Services can find some employees.    :roll:

 

Speaking of...

I took these about a week ago

 

 

 

 

I'd like to say nice pictures, but the subject matter makes me want to wretch.  Simply awful.

Not sure where to post this:

 

Cleveland’s Little Iraq

 

 

By Huda Al-Marashi

 

My husband and I moved to Cleveland from a high rise in Queens with bewildered giddiness. In the mornings, we woke to the sounds of birds chirping. No sirens, no honks. Although the downtown was eerily quiet, traffic moved. Parking was ample, and the grocery stores’ aisles were wide enough to accommodate carts with play cars attached—a dream come true for a mother of young children.

 

Still I had my reservations about our new home in the Midwest. My husband and I were both the children of Iraqi immigrants. We’d moved to Cleveland for his work, and I didn’t know how we’d fit into a region known for whiteness and farms. I doubted we’d find a Muslim community let alone a Middle Eastern supermarket.

 

It only took me one trip along Lorain Road and West 117th Street to realize how wrongly I’d assumed. Those two streets boasted more Middle Eastern supermarkets than I’d ever had access to my entire life. During my childhood in a California tourist town, we made monthly, hour-long drives to the closest Middle Eastern grocery. We came home with pounds of halal meat dumped into plastic bags that we then had to package and stack in the freezer. In New York, the scenario was the same, except now I was the one with children underfoot as I portioned meat into freezer bags.

 

http://beltmag.com/clevelands-little-iraq/

 

Speaking of...

I took these about a week ago

 

 

What a horrible building. Just the worst possible timing to put that hideous structure in. I can't believe the city couldn't even get it to front the street like all the other buildings around it. Very, very sad.

 

Not sure where to post this:

 

Cleveland’s Little Iraq

 

 

By Huda Al-Marashi

 

 

http://beltmag.com/clevelands-little-iraq/

 

That was a very interesting read. It's also evidence that if Cleveland is going to grow its population, it'll likely be through immigration and strengthening first and second generation communities to rebuild existing neighborhoods in the city. It's also interesting to get a different perspective on what other people believe Cleveland and NEO to be.

 

"We’d moved to Cleveland for his work, and I didn’t know how we’d fit into a region known for whiteness and farms."

 

It's hard for me to even imagine that people would expect Cleveland to be like this. Let alone the area around Lorain/ W 117th.

I couldn't figure out why this sounded so familiar to me...then I remembered it's from Rust Belt Chic (saw it when I opened the link as well). Thanks for posting!

I definitively feel that Cleveland's Arabic community is very overlooked. This probably does not make the top ten list for Clevelanders when asked to list the City's most notable items. Interesting the article said nothing about the Lebanese community. I guess the Muslim Arbabics and the Christian Lebanese do no interact very much.

Not sure where to post this:

 

Cleveland’s Little Iraq

 

 

What an amazing article. I hope when Clevelanders meet an Iraqi, especially a new arrival, we welcome them. Something pretty awful must have forced them to move from their homes and come to a strange land. Treat them with kindness.

 

And to keep this on topic, there certainly are many grocery stores along West 117th and Lorain. Many of which are Middle Eastern, though not all Arabic. And some of those stores sell non-grocery items, such as home furnishings.

 

Allow me to pimp my article again from the last holiday season.....

 

Cleveland's West 117th Street has become grocery store row

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2012/12/clevelands_west_117th_street_h.html