Much better. Not perfect but better.

I like it. Kinda has the feel of Zagara's on Lee with a little mix of the Cedar Center Whole Foods.

 

I do too wonder about having another Starbucks across from the current one...

if those new townhomes are built with quality exterior materials like that, they will be a huge improvement to the area

 

the more I look at the design, the more I like it.  Much higher end than anything else in the city, possibly along the lines of Villa Carabelli townhomes over near Little Italy, but I think these are even nicer.  They will sell fast.  With a 15 yr tax abatement too no doubt, they will sell for well over 500k each

 

They have more than twice as many buyers lined up to buy them than they have townhouses available. So now I'm thinking those lower-end ranch houses across Lake Avenue ought to be demolished for more of this higher-end housing.

I hope their is some degree of separation for the townhouses from the parking lot. Not the best view from those units!

I like it. Kinda has the feel of Zagara's on Lee with a little mix of the Cedar Center Whole Foods.

 

I do too wonder about having another Starbucks across from the current one...

 

we heard in the stakeholders group that this will just be a small kiosk, and the Starbucks across Clifton is one of the busier in the area, so they're definitely staying. many business owners along Clifton will announce business expansion or renovation plans once the Fifth Church site is settled and moving forward..

Eurokie, glad to hear! Have you landed at Cudell?

They have more than twice as many buyers lined up to buy them than they have townhouses available. So now I'm thinking those lower-end ranch houses across Lake Avenue ought to be demolished for more of this higher-end housing.

 

So, maybe they should go a few stories taller?

Starbucks across Clifton is one of the busier in the area, so they're definitely staying. many business owners along Clifton will announce business expansion or renovation plans once the Fifth Church site is settled and moving forward..

 

Sure that's the busy side of the road for the commute downtown.

 

I'm definitely psyched to hear about these expansion and reno plans!!

 

So, maybe they should go a few stories taller?

 

Nah, just build more of 'em, this time on north side of Lake to replace those el cheapo ranch houses.

 

So, maybe they should go a few stories taller?

 

Nah, just build more of 'em, this time on north side of Lake to replace those el cheapo ranch houses.

 

Well, that I will support.

Here comes the proposed request to sell and split the Fifth Church property among two buyers (FYI: Samco owns a reverse-rotated L-shaped parcel of land along Clifton and West 116th).....

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for June 6, 2014

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2014/06062014/index.php

 

17. Ordinance No. xxx-14(Ward 15/Councilmember Zone): Authorizing two real estate transfers in the form of an exchange of properties between Samco Properties, LTD ("Samco", a partnership owned and controlled by Carnegie Companies) and the City of Cleveland's Department of Economic Development, and a sale of City-owned property (PPN 001-21-089) to Samco Properties.

Presenter: Charles Slife, City of Cleveland

18. Ordinance No. xxx-14(Ward 15/Councilmember Zone): Authorizing the sale of City-owned land to Brickhaus Partners.

Presenter: Charles Slife, City of Cleveland

Here's the real estate development I've been hearing about at West 117th and Madison. I hope this isn't going to be right at the corner but just a bit north of the existing retail/apartment block along Madison. That block was renovated maybe 10 years ago and is a nice development. The collection of buildings behind it is not.

 

Here's the description.....

 

APFU Apartments is an urban infill development and will consist of up to 56 units reserved for seniors age 55 and older in the Cleveland area located specifically at the corner of West 117th Street and Madison Avenue. 100% of the units will be comprised of one and two bedroom/1 bathroom units in a four story elevator served building. All of the units will offer central air conditioning, window blinds, task lighting, have numerous universal design features, meet visitability standards, and exceed Energy Star ratings. The project will also offer residents such amenities as on-site management, community spaces including a community room with fireplace, multi-purpose room with kitchenette, supportive services and numerous other amenities.

 

http://apfuhousing.com/

 

 

I hate the way this looks, it's extremely out of character for the area. I get the sinking idea they're tearing down our urban buildings and turning us into Brunswick.

 

Redirected from the Cleveland TOD thread in the transportation section......

 

I hate it too, though I 'd have a little less problem with this development if it is built north of the existing apartments-over-retail mixed-use building fronting Madison Avenue between West 116-117th -- accross the street from the Rapid station. The area north of this mixed-use building is pretty dumpy and needs some investment. But if the proposed single-use structure replaces a mixed-used structure across the street from a rail transit station, then I've got a big problem with that! Unfortunately, the company that owns the mixed-use building (CRM Investments) also owns the land north of it along West 117th. So I suspect they're going to take out everything, including the mixed-use building. Unfortunately part2: the run-down building on West 116th north of the mixed-use building may have a different owner. I've never been able to get a property owner listing for this parcel. It's information is "unavailable."

 

It's bad enough with what Lakewood has done to its side of the street with all the parking lots and small, single-use structures that force auto-dependency and make walking so unpleasant in that area. The area within a 5-minute walk of a rail transit station should have vertical structures atop ground floor retail/restaurants etc. and get progressively smaller and less dense the farther you get from the station. Yet the exact opposite is the case as you come east on Madison in Lakewood. C'mon guys, this shouldn't be so hard. Take a few urban planning classes for crying out loud.

 

And it's not like the developer, NRP, doesn't know how to build that very concept. For example, they are building the more substantial Breakwater Bluffs between Battery Park and the old Westinghouse Plant next to the Shoreway. Here's an even more dense, mixed-use project of theirs in Raleigh, NC which is perfect even for an outlying rail station. This is very common outside downtown areas along rail transit lines throughout the USA....

 

Here's the real estate development I've been hearing about at West 117th and Madison. I hope this isn't going to be right at the corner but just a bit north of the existing retail/apartment block along Madison. That block was renovated maybe 10 years ago and is a nice development. The collection of buildings behind it is not.

 

Here's the description.....

 

APFU Apartments is an urban infill development and will consist of up to 56 units reserved for seniors age 55 and older in the Cleveland area located specifically at the corner of West 117th Street and Madison Avenue. 100% of the units will be comprised of one and two bedroom/1 bathroom units in a four story elevator served building. All of the units will offer central air conditioning, window blinds, task lighting, have numerous universal design features, meet visitability standards, and exceed Energy Star ratings. The project will also offer residents such amenities as on-site management, community spaces including a community room with fireplace, multi-purpose room with kitchenette, supportive services and numerous other amenities.

 

http://apfuhousing.com/

 

 

I hate the way this looks, it's extremely out of character for the area. I get the sinking idea they're tearing down our urban buildings and turning us into Brunswick.

 

Redirected from the Cleveland TOD thread in the transportation section......

 

I hate it too, though I 'd have a little less problem with this development if it is built north of the existing apartments-over-retail mixed-use building fronting Madison Avenue between West 116-117th -- accross the street from the Rapid station. The area north of this mixed-use building is pretty dumpy and needs some investment. But if the proposed single-use structure replaces a mixed-used structure across the street from a rail transit station, then I've got a big problem with that!

 

 

The freaking W117 Rapid WAS DESIGNED TO LOOK LIKE THOSE MIXED USE BUILDINGS! So then you tear them down? Asinine! You're right - this should go north this is so frustrating.

 

Just when I though I couldn't hate the Cleveland-Lakewood border any more....

I sent the following email to their contact person:

 

"Good morning,

 

I recently ran across this development and would like to ask a question regarding it. Is this project to tear down the existing mixed use property across from the RTA station? If so, you're correct to call this APFU, as it is a huge FU to the city. This is one of the last pieces of urbanity along the W. 117th stretch and you want to replace it with a suburban style building? As a developer, I would be embarrased to add this to my collection of properties on a main street in a major city. This belongs in Westlake, not on W. 117th."

 

I also sent an email to Cudell Improvements, not that I expect them to do anything but greet the developer with a hug.

Thanks I just sent this along to AP FU. Cudell Improvements is a joke.

 

Aaron,

 

This planned community, in principle, is welcome. However the architecture is not. This development looks like it belongs in Brunswick or adjacent to an exit ramp off I-71 in Medina. The style is simply not appropriate for the location. And if this development requires tearing down the mixed use buildings currently at the northeast corner, well that is simply depressing.

Maybe we can have some influence on the architecture, especially since the company does know how to develop high density buildings. I live near W. 117th and Triskett and I often use the W.117th Madison Rapid Station. It is one of the best designed stations we have.  I agree it would be a real shame to tear down the mixed use building near the station that was the basis of the design. 

 

As someone on a "car diet" I often walk along W. 117th to run errands and it feels like I am walking along a suburban highway. I am also very frustrated with the design of the proposed apartment building. Lorain Ave. makes for a more pleasant walk for errands because although it is somewhat "run down", it has a more urban feel and is more pedestrian friendly.

 

I attended the open house presentation sponsored by Cudell Improvement about this development. They are happy to have more housing for people who need it and are not really too aware of good urban design. They may not have much input from anyone with an architectural or urban planning background.

 

How many of the CDCs in Cleveland have people with Urban Planning or Architecture degrees on their staff? I wonder if the CDCs are open to hiring people with this type of background and if it would make a difference for a CDC like Cudell.

 

The development on Clifton and W. 117th looks pretty good. Are we only getting good design in the high end neighborhoods now?

jjames0408 is correct. Send e-mails and phone calls to NRP (which is a Garfield Heights based company), but especially to Cudell Improvement Inc. and to two council persons:

 

Anita Brindza

Executive Director

Cudell Improvement

9821 Lorain Avenue

Cleveland, OH 44102

(216) 228-4383

[email protected]

 

Daniel L. Berry

Board President

Cudell Improvement Inc.

(216) 228-4383

[email protected]

 

WARD 11 COUNCILWOMAN DONA BRADY

CONTACT INFORMATION

Council Office: 216.664.3708

Ward Office: 216.961.4999

[email protected]

 

WARD 15 COUNCILMAN MATT ZONE CONTACT INFORMATION

Council Office: 216.664.4235

Ward Office: 216.939.1717

[email protected]

 

Be complimentary, polite and to the point. And include your contact name, phone number and e-mail address. If you live, work, dine or shop in the neighborhood, be sure to tell them that. That makes you a constituent.

By the way....the response I got back from Cudell:

 

"The new residential development doesn’t touch the mixed use building on Madison Avenue.  However, it remains for sale as the owner wanted to sell it to Speedway for a gas station and Cudell and City Planning communicated “no go” to the owner for such a development.  Anita"

 

Good to see a stand somewhat being taken. Although, I'm now confused as to where that development is being proposed???

The owner (CRM Investments) of the mixed-use building also owns the land along West 117th to the north of the mixed-use building (which was rehabbed about a decade ago). The fact that CRM/NRP proposed a gas station across the street from a train station shows how little they understand about transit-supportive development, or how transit access can boost their development. Very sad.

A gas station across the street from a rapid stop, that's rich.

A gas station across the street from a rapid stop, that's rich.

 

The traffic chaos that a gas station would've created at THAT intersection....I shudder to think of it.

 

Good on Cudell for getting back to someone. Let's see if we can get some pressure on those involved to up their game aesthetically.

 

A gas station across the street from a rapid stop, that's rich.

 

 

 

 

A gas station across the street from a rapid stop, that's rich.

 

The traffic chaos that a gas station would've created at THAT intersection....I shudder to think of it.

 

Good on Cudell for getting back to someone. Let's see if we can get some pressure on those involved to up their game aesthetically.

 

what a great incentive for people to use transit, congestion.

 

:clap:

^ Ha! But seriously, that intersection isn't even safe for pedestrians. And then there's the jaywalkers....and the drivers who blare their horns at cars that stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk....come to think of it, this intersection sucks!!

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2014/08012014/index.php

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for August 1, 2014

 

FAR WEST DESIGN REVIEW

1. FW2014-014 - A Place for Us Housing

Project Location: Madison Avenue and West 116th Street

Project Representative: Kevin Drefyfuss-Wells, RDL Architects

 

 

That's this........

 

http://apfuhousing.com/

 

APFU Apartments is a 56-unit proposed independent senior community development located in Cleveland, Ohio

August 25. 2014 4:30AM

Lake views, Edgewater Beach greenery attract prolific developer

 

By STAN BULLARD

Real estate developer Andrew Brickman’s Solon-based Brickhaus Partners has lined up a site for another townhouse project in Cleveland’s Edgewater neighborhood before even breaking ground on its nearby project at the former Fifth Church of Christ building at Lake Avenue and West 117th Street.

 

This time, the potential site is another church, the former St. Thomas Lutheran Church, 9509 Lake Ave., which overlooks Edgewater Beach of the Cleveland Metroparks. The church was available because it merged in June with Bethany English Lutheran Church, at 15460 Triskett Road in Cleveland.

 

Brickman said he put the St. Thomas site under contract because he has more prospective purchasers for the project at West 117th than Brickhaus can accommodate. Brickhaus received city approval in June to develop the city-owned church site as more than 12 townhouses.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140825/BLOGS14/140829883?template=mobile&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1#ATHS

^ Sweet

That's fantastic.

 

Now what else can we knock down around there to do more of this?

 

 

Cool!

 

That's fantastic.

 

Now what else can we knock down around there to do more of this?

 

 

How about a bunch of these 1950s-era ranch houses along Lake, Edgewater and Harborview drives? BTW, this photo is part of a photo thread I posted at: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,27241.msg723381.html#msg723381

 

Yeah those things are hideous and do not fit in with the surrounding houses.

 

A resident of that area recently opined to me buy up and knock down all the houses on the S side of Clifton from Don's to the gas station.  That would be fantastic.

 

 

It's about time for some new infill in this area!

 

It will be interesting to see how Clifton/Cudell looks in 5 years. I'm hoping these projects, plus the corner of Clifton and West Blvd, enhance Clifton, and the 117th/Clifton redevelopment really set the momentum in the right direction. It's been stagnating for way too long while D/S, Ohio City, and Tremont on the west side have exploded.

By the way....the response I got back from Cudell:

 

"The new residential development doesnt touch the mixed use building on Madison Avenue.  However, it remains for sale as the owner wanted to sell it to Speedway for a gas station and Cudell and City Planning communicated no go to the owner for such a development.  Anita"

 

Good to see a stand somewhat being taken. Although, I'm now confused as to where that development is being proposed???

 

I'm coming in late on this one... All I can say is: phew!... The mixed use building at Madison isn't huge, but it is important.  Some of those buisinesses there, esp the bar/restaurant at the corner, appear to stay pretty busy.  And the last time I was there, it looks like they've expanded their patio.  So glad that Middleburg Heights-ish seniors building IS NOT replacing the mix-use building... Now, as for the planned gas station... we still dont' get it.

It's about time for some new infill in this area!

 

It will be interesting to see how Clifton/Cudell looks in 5 years. I'm hoping these projects, plus the corner of Clifton and West Blvd, enhance Clifton, and the 117th/Clifton redevelopment really set the momentum in the right direction. It's been stagnating for way too long while D/S, Ohio City, and Tremont on the west side have exploded.

 

I agree totally w/r to Cudell.  So much potential there in terms of density, walkability, old (great) architecture, transit, nearness to the lake, etc., etc., ...

A resident of that area recently opined to me buy up and knock down all the houses on the S side of Clifton from Don's to the gas station.  That would be fantastic.

 

 

I happened to like those houses!  :whip:

 

It's about time for some new infill in this area!

 

It will be interesting to see how Clifton/Cudell looks in 5 years. I'm hoping these projects, plus the corner of Clifton and West Blvd, enhance Clifton, and the 117th/Clifton redevelopment really set the momentum in the right direction. It's been stagnating for way too long while D/S, Ohio City, and Tremont on the west side have exploded.

 

Clifton on the Cleveland side, from the Lakewood line all the way down to Baltic, was a very rough street in the late 80s but many of the houses along it were beautifully restored in the early 90s. It was one of the reasons that attracted me to the area two decades ago. Back then, it was actually ahead of Tremont and Detroit-Shoreway which have since overtaken it. Maintaining and restoring historic neighborhoods is a never-ending job. Glad to see the new wave of investment which is far more substantial infrastructure-wise this time around.

Yeah those things are hideous and do not fit in with the surrounding houses.

 

A resident of that area recently opined to me buy up and knock down all the houses on the S side of Clifton from Don's to the gas station.  That would be fantastic.

 

 

The south side of Clifton is all turn of the century single family homes and highly decorated apartment buildings. What's wrong with that?

The south side of Clifton is all turn of the century single family homes and highly decorated apartment buildings. What's wrong with that?

 

I think he's referring to the mostly up/down doubles with front porches (including some duckbills) that are so common throughout Cleveland. There's also some single-family homes in there. They're the ones with the busy, elevated rail line behind them. One of them was damaged when an eastbound car on Clifton didn't make the turn at Baltic and the West 95th alley.

August 25. 2014 4:30AM

Lake views, Edgewater Beach greenery attract prolific developer

 

By STAN BULLARD

Real estate developer Andrew Brickman’s Solon-based Brickhaus Partners has lined up a site for another townhouse project in Cleveland’s Edgewater neighborhood before even breaking ground on its nearby project at the former Fifth Church of Christ building at Lake Avenue and West 117th Street.

 

This time, the potential site is another church, the former St. Thomas Lutheran Church, 9509 Lake Ave., which overlooks Edgewater Beach of the Cleveland Metroparks. The church was available because it merged in June with Bethany English Lutheran Church, at 15460 Triskett Road in Cleveland.

 

Brickman said he put the St. Thomas site under contract because he has more prospective purchasers for the project at West 117th than Brickhaus can accommodate. Brickhaus received city approval in June to develop the city-owned church site as more than 12 townhouses.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140825/BLOGS14/140829883?template=mobile&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1#ATHS

 

I didn't realize how big the parking lot for this church is. A roughly 40-car lot is behind the church so you can't see it from Lake. This is a surprising large property!

Yeah those things are hideous and do not fit in with the surrounding houses.

 

A resident of that area recently opined to me buy up and knock down all the houses on the S side of Clifton from Don's to the gas station.  That would be fantastic.

 

 

The south side of Clifton is all turn of the century single family homes and highly decorated apartment buildings. What's wrong with that?

 

The gas station = the old Shell.  There are no apartment buildings on that stretch.

I say save as many of those up/down doubles as possible. The area would look much better with those doubles restored, and new paint. Get rid of all alum/vial siding on any of them.

 

Cleveland has lost too much of its 1900-1930's housing already.

 

A very significant change/improvement would be to get rid of the gas station, and put up an apt/condo structure.

 

 

I say save as many of those up/down doubles as possible. The area would look much better with those doubles restored, and new paint. Get rid of all alum/vial siding on any of them.

 

Cleveland has lost too much of its 1900-1930's housing already.

 

A very significant change/improvement would be to get rid of the gas station, and put up an apt/condo structure.

 

 

 

Yeah, I have issues with the Historic Housing code that demands paint.  You have to paint far to often for things to look nice and hardly anyone does that.  Cladding other than wood lasts longer, is more energy efficient, and looks better over time since it does not deteriorate as rapidly. 

 

I really like this sort of spray on stuff they use, mostly over brick I think, to give it a kind of modern stucco look. 

 

But I'm more on the knock it down side.  Too many properties in town have not been taken care of or are of poor construction to begin with and are now very old.  I'd like to see new neighborhoods on valuable real estate, kind of like that new construction discussion in the Tremont thread where the modern units are suitable to build on empty lots.

 

 

Some of those homes aren't in the best of shape, but they don't look cheaply built and I can't see that they are in bad enough shape to require demolition, especially not as a priority given the overall quality of Cleveland's housing stock.

Some of those homes aren't in the best of shape, but they don't look cheaply built and I can't see that they are in bad enough shape to require demolition, especially not as a priority given the overall quality of Cleveland's housing stock.

 

They'd have to be at least somewhat sturdy to withstand the vibration of 70 trains a day, comprised of 100 +/- rail cars, with each rail car weighing up to 125 tons thundering by at up to 70 mph for as many decades as those structures have stood. The railroad has predated them all.

Here is the tentative site plan for the townhomes at 9509 Lake (St. Thomas Lutheran Church). I got this in an email blast from Brickhaus. Not sure how I feel about the driveway going around the property. That is a lot of lost greenspace. But they probably didn't have a choice if they were going for lakeviews from all of the houses.

 

 

August 25. 2014 4:30AM

Lake views, Edgewater Beach greenery attract prolific developer

 

By STAN BULLARD

Real estate developer Andrew Brickman’s Solon-based Brickhaus Partners has lined up a site for another townhouse project in Cleveland’s Edgewater neighborhood before even breaking ground on its nearby project at the former Fifth Church of Christ building at Lake Avenue and West 117th Street.

 

This time, the potential site is another church, the former St. Thomas Lutheran Church, 9509 Lake Ave., which overlooks Edgewater Beach of the Cleveland Metroparks. The church was available because it merged in June with Bethany English Lutheran Church, at 15460 Triskett Road in Cleveland.

 

Brickman said he put the St. Thomas site under contract because he has more prospective purchasers for the project at West 117th than Brickhaus can accommodate. Brickhaus received city approval in June to develop the city-owned church site as more than 12 townhouses.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140825/BLOGS14/140829883?template=mobile&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1#ATHS

 

I once lived in a Cardinal Community apartment complex in Berea for three years. My view was of another unit on the other side of the walkway. I couldn't wait to move out of there! My first night in my fifth-floor condo, I spent it listening to music while looking out the window for a long time. Why? Because I could -- finally!

 

My read of the Brickhaus site concept reminds me of my Berea apartment. No thanks.

Looked weird at first, but seems it will read as a courtyard building (with an alley going around the back perimeter) from Lake street which isn't so bad.

 

I lived in a Cardinal community in Kent. That was the worst most depressing apartment I've ever lived in....this could never be that bad

Those two driveways mirror the existing setup.

 

 

Yeah, looks like a courtyard concept. That style is all over Chicago (usually in the form of an apartment building). Looks OK to me.

 

 

CRUISING THE CUDELL CLIFTON CONSTRUCTION ZONE

Come and celebrate Cudell's 40th Anniversary by Cruising the Cudell Clifton Constructon Zone on Thursday, September 11 from 5:30 to 8:30 pm.  Stroll down Clifton and stopby at a number of participating local merchants such as Clifton Martini and Wine Bar, Papa Nicks, Twist, EZ Mart and more for light appetizers and beverages.  There will be games along the way!  Get a sneak peak at the residential and commercial plans for Clifton and Lake!  Price for all this fun is $30.  Make checks payable to Cudell Improvement, Inc. and mail to Anne Hamlin, 10224 Lake Avenue, Cleveland, 44102 by September 5th.  Questions?  Call 216.571.2314

This is for the planned two-story Giant Eagle Market District/Starbucks store at Clifton and West 117th....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2014/10032014/index.php

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for October 3, 2014

 

ZONING MAP AMENDMENTS

1. Ordinance No. 996-14(Ward 15.Councilmember Zone): Removing the existing mapped setbacks on parcels located on the north side of Clifton Boulevard between West 117th Street and West 116th Street and parcels fronting on West 117th Street as well as West 116th Street north of Clifton Boulevard.

Presenter: Tom Jordan, Staff Planner