I'm not as optimistic, but agree this if the anchor is the right kind then yeah, good things should follow.

 

Also an x-factor in this hood is the continued resurrection of Edgewater Park. The "Edgewater" name has been pretty tarnished for so long, it's possible that a negative association could've been partly responsible for the malaise in the neighborhood.

 

Anyhow, proximity to a world class park and beach could do wonders for the entire surrounding area.

 

Edgewater Park doesn't do much for me. I like having it and looking at it as I ride by it on the bus. But I'm not a park person. I don't have dogs. I don't have kids. I don't throw Frisbee or fly a kite. But I need groceries. And I suspect a full-service grocery store would do a lot more for this neighborhood than a park.

 

I agree 100% with you KJP, however I also support surf's point as well.  Every neighborhood has a focal point.  For me there are three major focal points in the area that form a triangle around Clifton/Baltic/Edgewater:

 

1.  W117th/Clifton retail district (This area is hurt by the vast majority of the money/residents residing in 44107).

2.  West Blvd Rapid Station (this has TOD written all over it!)

3.  Edgewater Park

 

Only one of these three are getting any forward progress, and much of that is due to the Metroparks taking over, along with the involvement of the residents and CDC of Detroit Shoreway.  It's time for our residents and leadership to make the same commitments to this neighborhood.

 

 

I agree 100% with you KJP, however I also support surf's point as well.  Every neighborhood has a focal point.  For me there are three major focal points in the area that form a triangle around Clifton/Baltic/Edgewater:

 

1.  W117th/Clifton retail district (This area is hurt by the vast majority of the money/residents residing in 44107).

2.  West Blvd Rapid Station (this has TOD written all over it!)

3.  Edgewater Park

 

Only one of these three are getting any forward progress, and much of that is due to the Metroparks taking over, along with the involvement of the residents and CDC of Detroit Shoreway.  It's time for our residents and leadership to make the same commitments to this neighborhood.

 

The median income of the 44102 Edgewater tract isn't that much lower than the Gold Coast tract of 44107 ($41 vs $45k,) and it's higher than the Lakewood tract south of Clifton ($31k).  South of Detroit and east of W. Boulevard are a different story, but from an income standpoint, the differences between Edgewater proper and the Gold Coast aren't "vast", IMO.

On that note, I prefer to take a larger view of this area.  Everything along 117th from the Berea Rd rail corridor to the lake is interlinked.  We can break it down by Avenue or income or zip code, but it remains interlinked.  One might even stretch that to I-90 to encompass the box box stores, because those get a steady flow of pedestrian traffic despite zero effort to accommodate it.

 

That's why I don't believe a grocery is the best use for that Clifton/117th plot, unless it is upscale enough to distinguish itself from Sappell's, which is technically not even a block away.  I might instead look to entertainment/dining/nightlife.  That's another existing strength for the neighborhood, but arguably one less close to saturation, and more likely to spur interest from other parts of town.  I know that wouldn't go over well with the Lake Avenue ranch house crowd, but if it were wholly up to them, we'd probably get more ranch houses there.     

Sapell's is fine for low-income shoppers, buying hard liquor and those not interested in actually cooking their meals. And that's the only grocery store within walking distance of the Gold Coast.

I'd like to see both a higher-end grocery store AND a neighborhood destination pub.  There is room for both, and in a mixed-use setting would work well with patios to hang out on, etc.

I caught whiff of who is expected to be the grocery tenant, and I think you guys will be happy. I just can't wait to see that ugly lot disappear!

I caught whiff of who is expected to be the grocery tenant, and I think you guys will be happy. I just can't wait to see that ugly lot disappear!

 

Well??? There are no secrets on Urban Ohio!  Do tell!

Haha, well I'm honestly not sure how much of this is supposed to be confidential. I'm not working on this project, and simply saw an internal memo in the office. Here's what I'll say: I had never heard of the business before. I looked it up, and it has about 15 locations scattered around the country (with one other location in Ohio). It looks like they're big on local, organic, and sustainable foods, and it has great reviews.

 

I'll find out on Monday if I'm allowed to talk about it in more detail. I'm just an intern so I'd make too easy of a scapegoat if I made this public before the client wants it to be!

 

In the mean time, guess away ;)

Haha, well I'm honestly not sure how much of this is supposed to be confidential. I'm not working on this project, and simply saw an internal memo in the office. Here's what I'll say: I had never heard of the business before. I looked it up, and it has about 15 locations scattered around the country (with one other location in Ohio). It looks like they're big on local, organic, and sustainable foods, and it has great reviews.

 

I'll find out on Monday if I'm allowed to talk about it in more detail. I'm just an intern so I'd make too easy of a scapegoat if I made this public before the client wants it to be!

 

In the mean time, guess away ;)

 

Lucky's Market? http://www.luckysmarket.com/

^ Welp, that didn't take long...

^ Welp, that didn't take long...

 

Don't worry, we won't tell anyone ;)

Wow,"that looks like a terrific store! Two thumbs up!!

I didn't see anything...

 

My buddy used to work at Zaremba and did a lot of CVS projects. He said that 117th store was consistently number one in sales. The neighborhood density and drive by household demographics of the commuters made that corner the number 1 CVS performer in the area.

 

Anecdotally I used to avoid the old GE there because it was always so busy during commuting time. Who ever goes in there should be fine, if we can get rid of that Lien that GE has. It makes sense for an outsider, most of the locals have a nearby store...

Looking at the Lucky's existing locations, I see they develop locations in College town areas (Ann Arbor, Columbia, Gainsville, Bloomington etc).  Should be a great fit for the neighborhood.

A story and pics from the AnnArbour Lucky's that is near opening.

http://www.mlive.com/business/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/02/a_look_inside_luckys_market_pr.html

It's not a lien. It's a deed restriction. I don't know if Lucky's coming in there means the restriction was lifted or if Lucky's merely met with Giant Eagle's approval.

The Lucky's in Columbus opened a bit before I moved from there to Cleveland, so I did have a few chances to check it out. When I heard another grocery store was considering the site after Giant Eagle pulled out Lucky's didn't even cross my mind. The Columbus location is in the southern portion of the Clintonville neighborhood, not too far from OSU and always seemed to be doing good business (even with a Giant Eagle basically across the street). In many ways Edgewater and Lakewood are similar to southern Clintonville, if that is any indication of how strong business will be.

Anecdotally I used to avoid the old GE there because it was always so busy during commuting time. Who ever goes in there should be fine, if we can get rid of that Lien that GE has. It makes sense for an outsider, most of the locals have a nearby store...

 

It was crowded sometimes. But it was also a veritable rats nest.

 

The new place looks like a destination grocery. The rats nest GE was quite the opposite, so a huge win for the hood. 

^rats nest. LOL. I would haves said Sh!thole but I was trying to be diplomatic. But I still shop at the Lakewood Marc's so I am not scared off too easily.

^rats nest. LOL. I would haves said Sh!thole but I was trying to be diplomatic. But I still shop at the Lakewood Marc's so I am not scared off too easily.

 

Wow, Marcs....I can't go in there without getting claustrophobia!

 

I'm not sure I'll be visiting Lucky's that often when I'm back in CLE. But I'm certain that will be a successful location for them.

 

Anyone think this place will seriously cut into business for Sapells, mini-Constantinos, GFS (worthless imho) or Aldi's?

Marc's is much better since they renovated it 2 or 3 years ago.

 

If it's a full service grocery, I don't think it should hurt any of the other ones too much. They each have a niche.

 

I'll probably use the new store, I drive by it coming home any day I go to the office.

This is really the best case scenario for this project. Not only is it NOT a Giant Eagle (which is already a win), but it's a new unique store for the region. This is exactly what Edgewater/the Gold Coast needs right now.

Interesting that this property is for sale now. It has been under the same ownership since 2008 when BMAF LLC bought the building after Cudell Improvement moved out of this former Drug Mart store. The building was vacant for five years. So now that it has a tenant under a multi-year lease, they're selling. Sounds like they wanted to get out at a good time....

 

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/19158282/11650-Detroit-Avenue-Cleveland-OH/?linkcode=31060

 

^ I wish this place would appear on the demoition thread.

^ I wish this place would appear on the demoition thread.

 

Yes there's not a good CVS for at least 3 blocks.    Or maybe it could be a Rite Aid....?  :roll:

^ I wish this place would appear on the demoition thread.

 

Yes there's not a good CVS for at least 3 blocks.    Or maybe it could be a Rite Aid....?  :roll:

 

This place has no windows along W. 117. It's the kind of building that says "this neighborhood is a crime haven."

This place has no windows along W. 117. It's the kind of building that says "this neighborhood is a crime haven."

 

And the windows along Detroit don't exactly put eyes on the street. But it does protect the people inside like a nice little bunker... Yep, it's a nasty, insular building that "distrusts" the street.

This place has no windows along W. 117. It's the kind of building that says "this neighborhood is a crime haven."

 

And the windows along Detroit don't exactly put eyes on the street. But it does protect the people inside like a nice little bunker... Yep, it's a nasty, insular building that "distrusts" the street.

 

Sorry guys my sarcastic comment was meant to say "tear it down and build a pharmacy," which seems to be the pattern on these types of Cleveland streets.  I agree with you both on the design of the current structure.    I just don't trust Cleveland and Cudell Improvement to do anything meaningful on such an important corner....

Before the recession when Cudell was preparing to move out of this building and Bob Fairchild was due to close the JD Byrider dealership just south of the tracks, I reported on conversations between Councilman Westbrook, Cudell CDC, Fairchild and BMAF about redeveloping the east side of West 117 from the tracks south to Detroit Ave. with residential, parking behind and some street-level retail at W117-Detroit. The conversations got serious, then the recession happened. Then GFS proposed the new grocery store which ended the possibility of a holistic approach to redeveloping that strip.

Before the recession when Cudell was preparing to move out of this building and Bob Fairchild was due to close the JD Byrider dealership just south of the tracks, I reported on conversations between Councilman Westbrook, Cudell CDC, Fairchild and BMAF about redeveloping the east side of West 117 from the tracks south to Detroit Ave. with residential, parking behind and some street-level retail at W117-Detroit. The conversations got serious, then the recession happened. Then GFS proposed the new grocery store which ended the possibility of a holistic approach to redeveloping that strip.

 

Sad.  I remember in the days of my youth the grand building with the Detroiter restaurant on the opposite corner.    Hopefully the 117th and Clifton development will become something to set as an example, which will spread to other corners in the area.    Until I set foot in it I'll hold my breath however.

This place has no windows along W. 117. It's the kind of building that says "this neighborhood is a crime haven."

 

And the windows along Detroit don't exactly put eyes on the street. But it does protect the people inside like a nice little bunker... Yep, it's a nasty, insular building that "distrusts" the street.

 

Sorry guys my sarcastic comment was meant to say "tear it down and build a pharmacy," which seems to be the pattern on these types of Cleveland streets.  I agree with you both on the design of the current structure.    I just don't trust Cleveland and Cudell Improvement to do anything meaningful on such an important corner....

 

Cudell is probably busy courting cash for gold or sell-your-plasma centers as we speak!

Wow, you guys are brutal. But I have to admit I'm particularly unhappy with this part of The Edge. It's quite lifeless:

 

 

 

^Cleburger, surely you jest.  Although I loathe a demolition and rebuild, that Walgreens (apart from the lack of street-fronting door) is one of the most sensitive ones I have seen in northeast Ohio.  If only we could get other developers to at least nod in the general direction of the original builds, our city wouldn't be littered with empty lots and parking set-backs.

 

 

That Walgreens is a step above a Hollywood set.  I don't understand why developers can't ACTUALLY build a second floor on these buildings today and make them truly mixed-use?? 

^In the case of this particular location I would imagine that it was built by Walgreens and they own it...they are not set up to be a landlord and I would imagine don't want the aggrevation.

Walgreen's originally came to the city with a site plan that would have the building set back from the corner, behind a parking lot. The city was forceful with Walgreen's, saying it wouldn't approve a building permit unless it built up to the corner and had an entrance on the sidewalk, and the building didn't have blank walls. They did the same thing with the drug store at Madison and Warren, plus other developments along Detroit Avenue in/near downtown Lakewood.

I got this response....

 

Matt Zone ‏@zonemat  Mar 25

it's coming @KennyPeepers patience is a virtue.

 

 

To this tweet....

 

Ken Prendergast ‏@KennyPeepers Mar 25

The high-profile, high-population corner of Clifton-W117 in Cleveland needs some TLC & mixed-use investment! @zonemat

 

According to Matt Zone's Facebook page, at the former Giant Eagle Site will be "Lucky's Market" out of Boulder Colorado.  Apparently there is one in Columbus and they are highly regarded.  If true, ( and nobody beats up Zone more than me)...gotta give credit where credit is due. That's a major coup for him to get an organics store at that location.

Haha, well I'm honestly not sure how much of this is supposed to be confidential. I'm not working on this project, and simply saw an internal memo in the office. Here's what I'll say: I had never heard of the business before. I looked it up, and it has about 15 locations scattered around the country (with one other location in Ohio). It looks like they're big on local, organic, and sustainable foods, and it has great reviews.

 

I'll find out on Monday if I'm allowed to talk about it in more detail. I'm just an intern so I'd make too easy of a scapegoat if I made this public before the client wants it to be!

 

In the mean time, guess away ;)

 

Lucky's Market? http://www.luckysmarket.com/

 

Nice insight, Urbanophile[/member]

^ Nice guess, based on the info I provided :)

According to Matt Zone's Facebook page, at the former Giant Eagle Site will be "Lucky's Market" out of Boulder Colorado.  Apparently there is one in Columbus and they are highly regarded.  If true, ( and nobody beats up Zone more than me)...gotta give credit where credit is due. That's a major coup for him to get an organics store at that location.

 

Yes great work on getting something new and "outside the box."   

 

Now the design part will become crucial.    Hopefully Lucky's is down with making something worthy of such a major corner, and not just another strip mall....

I really liked the design of the Giant Eagle Market or whatever it was called, with the Starbucks. It was a good urban design.

I really liked the design of the Giant Eagle Market or whatever it was called, with the Starbucks. It was a good urban design.

 

Agreed KJP.  But I worry that in the time that has lapsed it has somehow changed....

 

Agreed KJP.  But I worry that in the time that has lapsed it has somehow changed....

 

Don't worry until you have a reason to worry, unless you enjoy worrying. :)

I got this response....

 

Matt Zone ‏@zonemat  Mar 25

it's coming @KennyPeepers patience is a virtue.

 

 

To this tweet....

 

Ken Prendergast ‏@KennyPeepers Mar 25

The high-profile, high-population corner of Clifton-W117 in Cleveland needs some TLC & mixed-use investment! @zonemat

 

 

In this photo, this block looks the best it probably ever will, with Enhance Clifton and the church still standing...

In this photo, this block looks the best it probably ever will, with Enhance Clifton and the church still standing...

 

That's a terrible expectation! :x And that block looks equally terrible. It's vacant, trash-strewn, fenced and a dead zone. The church isn't going to survive. The only question is it deconstructed so its materials and architectural elements are used in a park and residential development, or will its roof cave in?

 

I want this for the block:

 

The urbanist grocery store (with a new end user):

 

And the residential development built from the deconstructed church:

With a new grocery tenant is there a possibility for a couple of floors of residential on top of the retail?  I think that would be even better than what you're showing, KJP.

I haven't heard anything but I do agree that adding residential above the store would be better. And I get the impression Carnegie Cos. doesn't do residential. I think the only way they would is if they and Abode expanded their partnership to increase the residential component. Considering how fast their luxury townhouses sold (prompting them to acquire St Thomas Evangelical Lutheran farther east on Lake Avenue), I hope they would see the opportunity to work with Abode to add residential above the grocery store.

I had a friend in town a week & half ago for CIFF 2015.  We rode over by this area, for me the first time in several years, and she abolutely couldn't believe they're tearing down such a architecturally beautiful building as the church, which is how I feel, too... I just can't believe a grand structure of that size and prominence can't be reused for anything.  I've heard a number of ticky-tack proposal like the silly indoor climbing wall gym, but are developers seriously trying?  I mean, if we can put a (seemingly very successful so far) Heinen's in the old Cleveland Trust rotunda, why not here?  And that's just one idea... I think folks have rather cavalierly given up on this building but, trust me, folks will live to regret it.  You just don't throw away such irreplaceable architecture as this.  We as a society foolishly did it in the 50s, 60s and 70s, but we should be smarter today.

There's this crazy thing called 'context' - the Cleveland Trust rotunda was vacant but never abandoned and left to rot like the church. It's unfortunate but that's how the former congregation and Giant Eagle let things play out.