I about lost my breakfast before I realized that's the old JD Byrider parcel and NOT the Clifton/117th parcel. Still, I'm not enthused with the layout or the store. This is not the kind of grocery I'd like to see in this area, but thank god it's not going in where the old Giant Eagle was. 117th street is pretty much a lost cause at this point and hopefully in 20 years all those trees they planted will be mature and obscure the hideous suburban nature of this street.

 

I would have to say that household size is quite small in either direction of this store. Isn't GFS known for it's super duper 10 lb bags of staple foods or 20 lb cans of surplus peaches? You'll never see any local resident walking a block or two to this grocery store and carrying home their 15 lb can of sliced oranges packed in their own juices.

 

I'm still holding out for hope that the Clifton/117th parcel a block north can be salvaged with something decent, but unfortunately this may be setting the tone for the neighborhood.

 

 

Personally, I'm ok with GFS being here. This will be the only one in the city of Cleveland, correct? As a general rule, I believe that we should have everything the suburbs have. Now, as I said in the Ohio City thread about McDonalds, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't put pressure to make sure their designs conform to urban standards. But I'd rather have them in the city than in the suburbs. I strongly believe that we should have all that they have and then some.

But, we shouldn't turn a dense urban environment into suburban sprawl to accommodate suburban style stores. It's sad to look on historic aerials to see what this area looked like in the 50s. I was hoping that with Rockport, the area around Brother's lounge, the JD Byrider lot, Virginia Marti and Clifton/117th that this area had major potential to become a cohesive neighborhood again. Once again, the elements for good urbanity exist, but the wrong development gets built. I'm afraid that the GFS will stick a fork in salvaging that part of Detroit and 117th.

But, we shouldn't turn a dense urban environment into suburban sprawl to accommodate suburban style stores. It's sad to look on historic aerials to see what this area looked like in the 50s. I was hoping that with Rockport, the area around Brother's lounge, the JD Byrider lot, Virginia Marti and Clifton/117th that this area had major potential to become a cohesive neighborhood again. Once again, the elements for good urbanity exist, but the wrong development gets built. I'm afraid that the GFS will stick a fork in salvaging that part of Detroit and 117th.

 

I'm with you West Blvd.  This isn't part of a redeveloping neighborhood.  This is some MBA sitting in an office somewhere extracting numbers from a zip code.  There is already an Aldi up the street to fulfill the need of bargain and bulk purchases. 

 

I will continue to hold out hope that the former Giant Eagle/Malloys will become a Heinens since they serve totally different markets.

It's frustrating to see a car oriented bulk grocer plop down in a walkable area. GFS is a destination bulk grocer for party planning, events, cafeterias and that sort. It's not a place where someone nearby would pop in to buy a quart of milk or loaf of bread. That's what puzzles me about the location. If this was popping up in an outlot off I-90 I would be cheering, but this is ruining a walkable neighborhood with a business that caters to cars driving from several miles away. It's definitely an odd choice of location and I can't help but wonder if Cudell Improvement tried to lure them.

Don't forget, the Aldi and the Sappells are both on Lakewood's side of the line.  Therefore neither can serve as a feather in Cudell's cap. 

 

GFS is a horrible and redundant use for that site.  But so what?  Plan schman. 

Please share your comments on what you believe is good urban design outside this pro-urban world, such as a short letter to the editor of the local newspapers. Write to your councilperson and show up FRIDAY at the city Planning Commission meeting where the plan will be heard.

 

In fact, you should probably write a letter now to the Planning Commission (reference agenda item: FW2012-039) and please include your street address in your communication (even if it is an e-mail). If you live nearby or if you visit the area often for shopping, eating, etc., please emphasize that! Demonstrate that you are a stakeholder in the success or failure of the neighborhood -- and whether you choose to continue to be a stakeholder in that area based on not only what's offered in the neighborhood, but "how" its offered. Please, use your own words. Not mine. Just say what's in your heart and mind, and don't worry about wordsmithing it too much or you'll never get it finished and sent! Speak out! :)

 

The city planner assigned to Cudell is Thomas Jordan: [email protected]

 

Friday's agenda is posted here:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2012/11162012/index.php

I saw a brief blurb on Heinen's facebook page where someone commented about the new location. Someone at Heinen's deleted the comment. Something is definitely going on,  but I'm sure all parties involved are trying to keep mum. I don't want to get excited yet because rumors are rumors.

 

This would be a little different from Heinens' normal business model.  They seem to prefer outer ring suburbs.  The only store that's really "inner ring" is Shaker Heights.

Well the rumor is definitely out there beyond our geeky circle. I was at my brothers Saturday night and we were talking about bars and I said that the Johnny Malloys at 117th closed and they are tearing the building down. Unsolicited one of his friends piped in that he heard there was a Heinen's going there.

Well the rumor is definitely out there beyond our geeky circle. I was at my brothers Saturday night and we were talking about bars and I said that the Johnny Malloys at 117th closed and they are tearing the building down. Unsolicited one of his friends piped in that he heard there was a Heinen's going there.

 

It's a pretty strong vote of confidence in the neighborhood. 

 

Heinen's is to area grocery stores what Hebrew National is to salami:  in a class completely by itself.

 

The only gripe I have with them is they close too early. 

I wrote my letter and definitely plan to be there on Friday. Don't forget to remind us again what time/room, etc., and I'll see if I can get others to come.

A link to Friday's agenda is posted my last posting in this thread.

 

I have interviewed several people about the GFS storeand hope to have a pre-planning commission article up on Sun's blog tonight or tomorrow morning. I'll write another piece based on the actions at Friday's meeting, but unfortunately I cannot attend as I'm juggling several projects for my primary employer.

I think an Acme would be great there too.  Acme's schtick is they always have a sufficient number of people working the registers.  It's marvelous, and no one else does that anymore. 

 

I live off West Market St in Akron, which (beyond Highland Square) is very similar to Clifton and seems to have a full scale grocery every couple miles.  Some in Akron, some in Fairlawn, some past Fairlawn.  And I'm not even counting Aldi or GFS type stuff.  Giant Eagles and Acmes, with some upscale locals too.  The housing is less dense and more upscale overall, but not by that much.  And of course from Fairlawn out, it's the west side's main suburban commercial strip.  But I don't see it being that much more deserving of grocery services than Clifton.

 

It really seems like the Gold Coast area (alone) could support at least one top tier grocery on this corner, if the great and powerful Akron could be so well endowed.  I know there's a huge new Giant Eagle up by the freeway, but considering how it works here, that shouldn't be a hindrance at all.  It would add so much value to all the housing around there already, and it would justify adding more.  But we're trying to add a small plaza and a GFS?  Hogwash.   

That Gordan Market layout is awful! Is it really that difficult to build up to the street? I'm sure it would not cost any more to develop the site in such a manner. It's like no thought at all was put into the context of its surroundings.

Gordon Food Services may build store on West 117th Street in Cleveland

Published: Thursday, November 15, 2012, 3:45 PM    Updated: Thursday, November 15, 2012, 3:46 PM

By Ken Prendergast, Sun News Sun News

 

CLEVELAND – Planning Commission members today are reviewing and possibly approving a plan to build a Gordon Food Services grocery store on West 117th Street.

 

If approved, construction on the $4 million, 15,000-square-foot GFS Marketplace store could start as early as late winter 2013 with the store opening by late summer or early fall, said Anita Brindza, executive director of Cudell Improvement Inc.

 

The store would rise at the former J.D. Byrider car dealership at 1363 W. 117th, just south of the railroad tracks and north of Detroit Avenue.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2012/11/gordon_food_services_may_build.html

Lovely.  In the last part of the article people talk (in positive terms?) about all the truck traffic this place would get.  Councilman Westbrook sees this as a good fit with existing area businesses.  Technically those businesses need trash disposal too, so would a landfill also make a good fit here?  I just have nothing good to say about these people.  My oh my oh my.

 

Good job author, in highlighting the truck thing.

Nice writeup.  I don't think I would be too thrilled if I lived on W116.

 

I love the first comment on the article. 

 

" I don't think you'll see many businesses succeed on W117th - the neighborhood on the Cleveland side is just too sketchy, I think that would make people shy away from that area."

 

 

 

 

Well i suppose it's better than a vacant lot...

 

I had a feeling Cudell was involved.  Always about 25 years behind the times....

This GFS irks me on so many levels. Let's play the what if game here. Let's say Heinen's builds at 117th and Clifton next summer and the enhance Clifton project is completed by next October. All of a sudden the dynamics for this area are completely changed in less than 12 months. Here is a parcel that is ripe for something so much better and 3 years from now could be worth so much more. The GFS offers nothing of value at all to local residents. A completely wasted use of space in a densely populated area. This is not a local grocery store. There's no reason it can't be plopped on some other lot close to I-90. It annoys me so much that Westbrook and Cudell think this is a great idea, really what goes on in their minds?

 

I've always envisioned 117th/Clifton being a waterfront district. The city should purchase the 5 homes at the end of the street, clear them and make a beautiful greenspace park with promenade. As you drive down 117th you'd see the beautiful lake directly in front of you. You could have restaurants lining the northern stretches of the street with sidewalk cafes all having lake views. In fact, the old church at Lake and 117th would have an outstanding view. You'd have development then spur southwards on 117th toward Rockport and then filter either direction down Clifton. Sure it's a pipe dream, but it's definitely a realistic low cost waterfront plan.

This is not a bad thing necessarily...if they would just flip the site plan a little...it wouldn't be as offensive. I like the idea of the back entrance from 116 also. Very pedestrian friendly haha

But will we get that?  Getting the GFS to front W117th would... have value.  I wouldn't call it a victory, but at least it would show some understanding of the ideals involved here.

This GFS irks me on so many levels. Let's play the what if game here. Let's say Heinen's builds at 117th and Clifton next summer and the enhance Clifton project is completed by next October. All of a sudden the dynamics for this area are completely changed in less than 12 months. Here is a parcel that is ripe for something so much better and 3 years from now could be worth so much more. The GFS offers nothing of value at all to local residents. A completely wasted use of space in a densely populated area. This is not a local grocery store. There's no reason it can't be plopped on some other lot close to I-90. It annoys me so much that Westbrook and Cudell think this is a great idea, really what goes on in their minds?

 

I've always envisioned 117th/Clifton being a waterfront district. The city should purchase the 5 homes at the end of the street, clear them and make a beautiful greenspace park with promenade. As you drive down 117th you'd see the beautiful lake directly in front of you. You could have restaurants lining the northern stretches of the street with sidewalk cafes all having lake views. In fact, the old church at Lake and 117th would have an outstanding view. You'd have development then spur southwards on 117th toward Rockport and then filter either direction down Clifton. Sure it's a pipe dream, but it's definitely a realistic low cost waterfront plan.

 

You're talking about a councilperson and development organization that celebrate, with fanfare, things like a new sign at Constantino's.  In reality we shouldn't slam just Westbrook and Cudell.  This is what neighborhood-level development has become in Cleveland (save for maybe downtown and Gordon Square).    Woohoo a new storefront!   

 

On the bright side, we do have the tired and poorly designed spinning snowmen, nutcrackers and snowflakes to look forward to on Clifton for the busy shopping season. Way to go Cudell.

This GFS irks me on so many levels. Let's play the what if game here. Let's say Heinen's builds at 117th and Clifton next summer and the enhance Clifton project is completed by next October. All of a sudden the dynamics for this area are completely changed in less than 12 months. Here is a parcel that is ripe for something so much better and 3 years from now could be worth so much more. The GFS offers nothing of value at all to local residents. A completely wasted use of space in a densely populated area. This is not a local grocery store. There's no reason it can't be plopped on some other lot close to I-90. It annoys me so much that Westbrook and Cudell think this is a great idea, really what goes on in their minds?

 

I've always envisioned 117th/Clifton being a waterfront district. The city should purchase the 5 homes at the end of the street, clear them and make a beautiful greenspace park with promenade. As you drive down 117th you'd see the beautiful lake directly in front of you. You could have restaurants lining the northern stretches of the street with sidewalk cafes all having lake views. In fact, the old church at Lake and 117th would have an outstanding view. You'd have development then spur southwards on 117th toward Rockport and then filter either direction down Clifton. Sure it's a pipe dream, but it's definitely a realistic low cost waterfront plan.

 

You're talking about a councilperson and development organization that celebrate, with fanfare, things like a new sign at Constantino's.  In reality we shouldn't slam just Westbrook and Cudell.  This is what neighborhood-level development has become in Cleveland (save for maybe downtown and Gordon Square).    Woohoo a new storefront!   

 

On the bright side, we do have the tired and poorly designed spinning snowmen, nutcrackers and snowflakes to look forward to on Clifton for the busy shopping season. Way to go Cudell.

 

Off the top of my head, the GFS has to be the first new structure built north of Detroit and west of the shoreway in Cleveland in at least a decade? Perhaps there was a new home built on Edgewater in the late 90s/early 2000s? Technically the replacement Wendy's would count, but it wasn't a new business. That right there tells you something about this area's recent investments.

 

If this is the best we can get from Cudell and one of their big accomplishments, then so help us. If we do end up getting GFS to build a store that fronts the sidewalk, it's not going to make this neighborhood a better sell. They've done nothing but put spinning snowmen on brick walls for years and years and we wonder why Tremont, Ohio City, and Downtown continue to poach residents/potential residents?!?

 

I still have my fingers crossed that the Heinen's rumor comes true. If they build next year, I'll chalk up the GFS loss.

This GFS irks me on so many levels. Let's play the what if game here. Let's say Heinen's builds at 117th and Clifton next summer and the enhance Clifton project is completed by next October. All of a sudden the dynamics for this area are completely changed in less than 12 months. Here is a parcel that is ripe for something so much better and 3 years from now could be worth so much more.

 

Not to mention that if the West Shore Commuter Rail ever comes to fruition you would have this GFS located where prime TOD should be.

 

I still have my fingers crossed that the Heinen's rumor comes true. If they build next year, I'll chalk up the GFS loss.

 

The more I think about, the more a Heinen's doesn't jibe with the company's recent direction.  Their latest addition is a ritzy Chicago burb.  I hope I'm wrong, because if they are still growing, the Nordonia area makes sense.  :)

 

However, one of the more organic/health food oriented places might fit the demographics better.  Mustard Seed, Whole Foods, or Trader Joe's (which only has two Cleveland area locations, neither of which is close).

Folks, let's save the rumors for another forum :-)

I will have another article about West 117th and how it has become a grocery store corridor, with each one serving a little different market than the others.

 

I still have my fingers crossed that the Heinen's rumor comes true. If they build next year, I'll chalk up the GFS loss.

 

The more I think about, the more a Heinen's doesn't jibe with the company's recent direction.  Their latest addition is a ritzy Chicago burb.  I hope I'm wrong, because if they are still growing, the Nordonia area makes sense.  :)

 

However, one of the more organic/health food oriented places might fit the demographics better.  Mustard Seed, Whole Foods, or Trader Joe's (which only has two Cleveland area locations, neither of which is close).

 

I tend to agree with your assertion on Heinen's.  They also have a high-volume store minutes away in Rocky River, and most everyone in the area has a car.  But I continue to hold out hope that one of these stores ends up on that corner.

I spoke to someone from Heinens administration tonight at a wedding.  I played dumb and asked if any stores were in the plans for the west side.  He volunteered the west 117th and clifton location.  He said it is more than a rumor, this area is hot right now, and it is looking like it would be a smaller Heinens like the one in Hudson.

I spoke to someone from Heinens administration tonight at a wedding.  I played dumb and asked if any stores were in the plans for the west side.  He volunteered the west 117th and clifton location.  He said it is more than a rumor, this area is hot right now, and it is looking like it would be a smaller Heinens like the one in Hudson.

 

Nice work!

Sneaky!

Hells yes. Game changer

I spoke to someone from Heinens administration tonight at a wedding.  I played dumb and asked if any stores were in the plans for the west side.  He volunteered the west 117th and clifton location.  He said it is more than a rumor, this area is hot right now, and it is looking like it would be a smaller Heinens like the one in Hudson.

 

Good work!  I believe Believeland!

I spoke to someone from Heinens administration tonight at a wedding.  I played dumb and asked if any stores were in the plans for the west side.  He volunteered the west 117th and clifton location.  He said it is more than a rumor, this area is hot right now, and it is looking like it would be a smaller Heinens like the one in Hudson.

 

Funny you did that, because I interviewed their marketing director by e-mail and got a non-denial. :) It will be in an article in this week's Sun but the article may not get put online until the following week, what with the holiday....

 

EDIT: BTW, I love the Hudson Heinen's -- it's the company's "Village Market" concept with a center area for employees selling food over the counter there. Very much a throwback idea!

Great news that we can pretty much take this off the rumor list now. This will add incredible value to the neighborhood and definitely makes the Gold Coast/Clifton a better sell. To have a walkable LOCAL grocer of this caliber here is a big win. Combine that with the enhance Clifton project getting underway in a few months and you really have momentum here.

 

The neighborhood coup would be to somehow get the old church at Lake/117th turned into something.

 

Hopefully we see some sketches of proposed designs soon.

Great news that we can pretty much take this off the rumor list now. 

 

REALLY.  Base on the above?  While interesting and positive, hardly concrete (a conversation at a wedding reception and a non-denial e mail).  I know we get a little desperate on this Board for good news but still...

Great news that we can pretty much take this off the rumor list now. 

 

REALLY.  Base on the above?  While interesting and positive, hardly concrete (a conversation at a wedding reception and a non-denial e mail).  I know we get a little desperate on this Board for good news but still...

 

I guess it's semantics. I take a rumor as something that someone just made up from thin air. The discussions above reveal that Heinen's is at least interested and have been looking at the property, which to me is definitely out of the rumor category.

Not yet. Wait for a formal announcement. Even then, I don't count anything as a done deal until the ribbon is cut on opening day.

Not yet. Wait for a formal announcement. Even then, I don't count anything as a done deal until the ribbon is cut on opening day.

 

AMEN

There is daylight between not a rumor and a done deal. Deals and plans collapse all the time but it doesn't make them rumors.

Understood. I just don't like getting excited over something until it's in the bag. But I am always hopeful or I wouldn't bother getting out of bed in the morning...

More importantly, and we can take this to another thread, but if this does come to fruition, what is it representing?  Where is the increased demand coming from?  I know the population of Detroit-Shoreway is increasing.  Is Edgewater?  Are they banking on Lakewood only?  Heinens has been around for decades and just now they are looking to go here?  I think its a great sign, but I am curious to see what is changing that makes them want to set up shop here.

They'd pull from as far east as downtown and Tremont.  I think they're counting on that more than Lakewood.  Maybe eastern Lakewood, but western Lakewood already has a Heinen's in Rocky River.

I'm sure the Gold Coast is the largest single factor.

^There is a good amount of wealth in the area if you look at demographics.

There's a LOT going on in this area. I just submitted two articles to go with a third I wrote about the Enhance Clifton project. Discuss Enhance Clifton there:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4446.0.html

 

And rather than call it wealth -- I call it buying power. It's not a wealthy area. But if you take a suburb of 10,000 households earning an average of $50,000 per year and put it up against a city neighborhood of 20,000 households earning an average of only $30,000 per year, the city neighborhood has more buying power. Chad Dasher at Westown CDC says it this way -- judge a neighborhood by its number of banks. If there are many banks, then a neighborhood has money. Banks don't locate neighborhoods that don't have any money in them.

 

Ditto for mouths to feed. And West 117th is turning into a Grocer's Mile. I count 10 existing grocery stores between I-71 and Lake Erie (OK, it's much longer than a mile!). From south to north:

 

1. West Town Village Market, 3645 W 117th St, Middle Eastern groceries and gifts.

2. (NEW -- OPENED NOV 9) Alba Fresh Market, 3353 W 117th St, Albanian-Mediterranean grocer.

3. Mi Pueblo Mercado y Taqueria, 12207 Lorain Ave., Mexican-Latino grocery store and restaurant.

4. Imported Goods, 11717 Lorain Ave. Both Middle Eastern and south Asian groceries and gifts.

5. Almadina Imported Foods-Halal Meats, 11550 Lorain Ave., sells groceries and prepared hot foods.

6. Al-Manar Market, 3279 W 117th St, grocery and food cooked to order, specializes in Iraqi and Lebanese foods.

7. Target, 3100 W 117th St, full service grocery store plus department superstore.

8. Giant Eagle, 3050 W 117th St, full service, high-volume, 24-hour grocery superstore. Giant Eagle says this is one of their busiest stores in Cuyahoga County -- being right on I-90 helps too.

9. Aldi, 1600 W 117th St, exclusive ALDI select brands.

10. (PLANNED -- CONSTRUCTION BY SPRING 2013) GFS Marketplace, 1363 W 117th St. bulk and institutional grocer.

11. Sapell's Bi-Rite, 1314 W 117th St, licensed state liquor store and grocer.

12. (POTENTIAL) Unidentified grocery store, W 117th at Clifton Blvd. Cudell Improvement and Councilman Westbrook each told me the property owner is negotiating ONLY with grocery store operators.

 

** This also does not include the Save-A-Lot grocery store coming into Westown Plaza in May 2013.

 

Nor does it include four large drug stores with extensive grocery items including CVS Pharmacy (11706 Clifton Blvd -- 24 hours!), Walgreen's (11701 Detroit Ave -- 24 hours!), Discount Drug Mart (11900 Detroit Ave), and Rite Aid (11702 Lorain Ave). The manager at the Clifton CVS says that store is their highest revenue producer in Cuyahoga County!

 

Nor does it include the many convenience stores along West 117th, of which I count six stores including the store inside the GetGo station.

Understood. I just don't like getting excited over something until it's in the bag. But I am always hopeful or I wouldn't bother getting out of bed in the morning...

 

LOL,  Sounds like a quote from a Cleveland Browns fan.

 

I am not shocked that Heinens would consider the W117 and Clifton area.  With Edgewater and the Gold Coast there is the requisite wealth and sophistication.

 

 

Battery Park is approaching half way built out, these units are flying off the shelf.  THere are probably 200 residents in this development and it continues to grow.  These folks move in and immediately ask where the nearest grocery store is.  Heinens would be the new suggestion if they built there.

Outside the speculations about a Heinens on the corner of Clifton/117th, what's the latest status of the existing buildings to be demo'd?  Was a demolition permit approved?  Any time frame for when that might start?

LOL,  Sounds like a quote from a Cleveland Browns fan.

 

Close: passenger rail advocate living in Ohio.

 

Outside the speculations about a Heinens on the corner of Clifton/117th, what's the latest status of the existing buildings to be demo'd?  Was a demolition permit approved?  Any time frame for when that might start?

 

Landmarks Commission approved the demolition on Nov. 8. I haven't checked with the building department to see if the demo permit was issued. But I got the impression the property owner, Carnegie, wants the buildings down by the end of the year -- assuming they can find an available demo contractor and get them on the job that fast.