November 20, 201212 yr Acme's schtick is they always have a sufficient number of people working the registers. That's absolutely Insane! Sincerely, Giant Eagle
November 20, 201212 yr Acme's schtick is they always have a sufficient number of people working the registers. That's absolutely Insane! Sincerely, Giant Eagle Nothing like outsourcing to your customers. I always tell any store when I wait in line for a real cashier that if I want a part time job checking groceries I'll apply with the manager. Until then I'd rather wait in line then do the self checkout in any store. Wegmans over in PA and NY has the same deal as Acme--they still rely on human cashiers--and it shows. Stores are always packed and cashiers are quick and efficient. Have you ever waited behind someone struggling with the scanners and the human cashier has to come help them every 10 seconds? Wouldn't it be easier to just have the professional do it in the first place? :whip:
November 20, 201212 yr i went into the manager's office at the Giant Eagle on 117th & pointed at the lines and gave him a piece of my mind. He called two clerks over & opened two extra lanes. The last few years they've slowly been replacing the checkout lanes with self-checkout lanes... sucks when it takes longer to check out than it does to do your shopping
November 20, 201212 yr sucks when it takes longer to check out than it does to do your shopping Which is exactly why we rarely go there. Most of our shopping is done at the Market or Heinens with Natures Bin occasionally and Sappele's for emergency items.
November 27, 201212 yr Understood. I just don't like getting excited over something until it's in the bag. But I am always hopeful or I wouldn't bother getting out of bed in the morning... LOL, Sounds like a quote from a Cleveland Browns fan. I am not shocked that Heinens would consider the W117 and Clifton area. With Edgewater and the Gold Coast there is the requisite wealth and sophistication. Heinens is really an old rumor and just not going to happen. The demographics of the area just really dont support a Heinens anymore (regardless of the sliver of nicer lakefront homes). Maybe 10 years ago when Heinens was looking into the area, but demographics have and continue to change in this area. Look for a medical facility to go here. It seems the local leaders are using the changing demographics/realities to dictate what kinds of developments will be happening in this area.
November 27, 201212 yr "Maybe 10 years ago when Heinens was looking into the area, but demographics have and continue to change in this area. " Citation for this? The density of Lakewood alone should allow for it.
November 27, 201212 yr No citation necessary. (Im not going to cite internal Heinens memo's or anything, but demographic data is available for anybody. ) Heinens isnt about density as much as demographics. (you are welcome to take it as just my opinion of course!) Also, remember Heinens has a location right across the Lakewood line. Im predicting a M#$%& outpost on this site.
November 27, 201212 yr Gordon Food Service to build GFS Marketplace on West 117th in Cleveland Published: Sunday, November 25, 2012, 9:55 AM Updated: Sunday, November 25, 2012, 9:55 AM By Ken Prendergast, Sun News CLEVELAND A “Grocers’ Mile” on West 117th Street at the Cleveland/Lakewood border appears to be emerging with a rising number of grocery stores. The latest is the planned addition of a Gordon Food Service GFS Marketplace store, for which construction could start as early as late-winter 2013. Planning Commission members approved plans Nov. 16 for the $4 million, 15,000-square-foot GFS Marketplace. The store may open by late summer or early fall, said Anita Brindza, executive director of Cudell Improvement Inc. The store would rise on the former J.D. Byrider car dealership site at 1363 W. 117th, north of Detroit Avenue and just south of the railroad tracks. READ MORE AT: http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2012/11/gordon_food_service_to_build_g.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 27, 201212 yr Look for a medical facility to go here. It seems the local leaders are using the changing demographics/realities to dictate what kinds of developments will be happening in this area. Look about 2/3 the way down in this article...... Shoppers World, Save-A-Lot to fill old Giant Eagle space in Cleveland Published: Saturday, November 24, 2012, 2:42 PM Updated: Saturday, November 24, 2012, 2:43 PM By Ken Prendergast, Sun News CLEVELAND When Giant Eagle combined two grocery stores into its superstore at West 117th Street and Interstate 90 in 2008, it left storefront vacancies in highly visible locations in two neighborhoods. At least one of them is getting filled now, while the other may not be too far behind. In terms of square feet, the larger of the two vacancies was partially filled Nov. 13 when Shoppers World opened at Westown Village shopping center, 10950 Lorain Ave. The low-price department store fills about two-thirds of the former grocery store. READ MORE AT: http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2012/11/shoppers_world_save-a-lot_to_f.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 27, 201212 yr ^^^Ok, I thought maybe you were privy to market studies of this type. There is a good amount of income in the surrounding area, I think we talked about that up thread actually. Median household income is about 6k > Cleveland as a whole. http://www.city-data.com/neighborhood/Edgewater-Cleveland-OH.html
November 27, 201212 yr Oh, and one more article (on Enhance Clifton) relevant to this area, although there is already thread for this, at...... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4446.msg651468.html#msg651468 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 27, 201212 yr "Median household income is about 6k > Cleveland as a whole." This isnt really saying a whole lot when you consider the numbers and levels of poverty in Cleveland. And the Citi-Data is somewhat meaningless if your not comparing periods to see where things are going (upscale grocery stores will invest in a gentrifying area, but typically not the other way around) While I will gladly continue to hold my breath for Heinens.... Westbrook dropped the ball on that one a while ago...... And thats as much as I will say.
November 27, 201212 yr Demolition of the retail strip on Clifton is on the Landmarks Commission docket for Thursday, Nov. 29.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2012/11292012/index.php Cleveland Landmarks Commission CITY HALL - ROOM 514 - 9:00 AM AGENDA - November 29, 2012 Clifton-West Boulevard Historic District: Case 12-065 11604 Clifton Boulevard Demolition The reason the building is proposed for demolition is because there is a structural situation in the basement. This photo demonstrates the problem....... The current building siting in the block..... Here's the proposed new site plan for The Shoppes on Clifton. OK kids, what's missing?.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 27, 201212 yr in the second rendering, do they get rid of that octagonal building on the northwest corner of the block?
November 27, 201212 yr in the second rendering, do they get rid of that octagonal building on the northwest corner of the block? Yes, actually I deleted the first rendering because, upon closer inspection, it only outlined the existing buildings to be demo'd. So that octagonal building is the city-owned church, which has been vacant since about 1990. It's a beautiful church which dates from the 1920s, but there have been no takers seeking to redevelop it. There was a plan by Marous that emerged shortly before the recession, but the recession killed that plan. The neighborhood fought very hard to preserve the church, and get Riser Foods (which owned the Stop-n-Shop store which was later taken over by Giant Eagle) to sell it to the city. This will also have a parking lot at the corner of West 117th and Clifton, further reducing the walkability of the neighborhood. However, remember what Anita Brindza of Cudell Improvement Inc. said in one of my articles: “The site plan originally submitted is really not a site plan that has any relevance to reality,” she said, acknowledging that it’s only a placeholder site plan. “The actual site plan will depend on what an anchor tenant wants. It does not have an anchor tenant yet.” http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2012/11/clifton_retail_strip_demolitio.html Here is their prior site plan as part of their retail marketing pieces developed more than a year ago -- as you can see it's quite different: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 28, 201212 yr Here's the proposed new site plan for The Shoppes on Clifton. OK kids, what's missing?.... An ounce of heart or character? Or maybe you meant the complete lack of urban design. Yeah, that's it.
November 28, 201212 yr ^Pride of place, history, or future ambitions? Any sense that this is a special neighborhood?
November 28, 201212 yr Author Along with protesting a skywalk being rammed into the Higbee Building, I think the City Beautiful group, along with the existing stakeholders and residents of the area should be raising hell that Cudell would even consider such dreck. One story retail with gratuitous surface parking? Shame on them! clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
November 28, 201212 yr Why in the world would you put street fronting retail on 116th, and leave Clifton / 117th bare? Ugh. What do these people think when drawing these up! I think the anchor tenant will ultimately determine the layout and how many other retail places end up being carved out. Walk by this spot now, it's not that spacious and parking is limited. A busy grocery store probably wouldn't allow for much more retail. Whatever goes here is going to set the tone for the neighborhood for the next decade. You put in a Heinen's and things are suddenly golden, get a Dollar General and the neighborhood isn't a sell anymore.
November 28, 201212 yr While most agree a Heinens would be great for the area, don't kid yourself that they won't want single story retail with huge surface lots too...
November 28, 201212 yr While most agree a Heinens would be great for the area, don't kid yourself that they won't want single story retail with huge surface lots too... That's why I wouldn't be surprised to see just one anchor tenant at the corner of Clifton /117th and the rest go to parking. I also wouldn't be surprised to see what's built there to take up a significantly less building footprint than what's there now. The trump card is the church, if that's ever demo'd who knows what you'd get.
November 28, 201212 yr Why in the world would you put street fronting retail on 116th, and leave Clifton / 117th bare? Ugh. What do these people think when drawing these up! The fact I predicted something this bad is of no solace. Sure, as KJP's article says nothing's been decided...yet. This drawing should be met quickly with derision. If it is not, well then, how special is the neighborhood really if the residents don't voice an opinion?
November 28, 201212 yr I may have missed this, but what's wrong with the Johnny Mango's building to begin with? I don't understand why even bother building a crappy 1-story retail strip when there is already a fine 1-story retail strip that is much nicer than anything that would be built today.
November 28, 201212 yr I may have missed this, but what's wrong with the Johnny Mango's building to begin with? I don't understand why even bother building a crappy 1-story retail strip when there is already a fine 1-story retail strip that is much nicer than anything that would be built today. See post #562.
November 28, 201212 yr Wait, the CDC is doing this? If so, what exactly is the matter with the Cudell/Edgewater CDC? CDC's should be about urban, walkable, neighborhood-oriented development. Something has gone horrifically awry here.
November 28, 201212 yr Wait, the CDC is doing this? If so, what exactly is the matter with the Cudell/Edgewater CDC? CDC's should be about urban, walkable, neighborhood-oriented development. Something has gone horrifically awry here. Cudell and it's people might as well be stuck in 1974. They don't comprehend making the neighborhood livable for the future. They want to celebrate success stories of the "now", like a new sign at Constantino's, or a rehabbed gas station EZ Mart. You can try posting something your opposition on their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/152391705199/?ref=ts&fref=ts But true to their time warp, Cudell doesn't understand social media and will promptly delete anything "negative" or against their intentions. They are also seeking nominations for the board if you're interested. ;)
November 28, 201212 yr ^ "Shoppes on Clifton"?! Gag me with a spoon. It does look like the current building is definitely having some structural issues. I guess that is what happens when you dig out below the original foundation. What can be done with that church? It's such a beautiful building but so awkward at the same time. I hate to say this but I hope that Stark's people that did Crocker Park can get involved on this....
November 28, 201212 yr ^ "Shoppes on Clifton"?! Gag me with a spoon. It does look like the current building is definitely having some structural issues. I guess that is what happens when you dig out below the original foundation. What can be done with that church? It's such a beautiful building but so awkward at the same time. I hate to say this but I hope that Stark's people that did Crocker Park can get involved on this.... I don't think that request is absurd at all--mixed use retail with apartments above is just what the corner needs! Bring on the Crocker Park!
November 28, 201212 yr Why in the world would you put street fronting retail on 116th, and leave Clifton / 117th bare? Ugh. What do these people think when drawing these up! The fact I predicted something this bad is of no solace. Sure, as KJP's article says nothing's been decided...yet. This drawing should be met quickly with derision. If it is not, well then, how special is the neighborhood really if the residents don't voice an opinion? After I saw that site plan, it raised too many questions. Why would a developer submit a very preliminary site that proposed something so controversial as to demolish a designated landmark that it does not own? So I put my Sun News hat on this morning and made some phone calls. The answers I got warranted me writing an article and getting it on cleveland.com BEFORE tomorrow's Landmarks Commission. If it isn't published online shortly, I will share the details this evening. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 28, 201212 yr Of course, I'd ideally like to see a multi level building here with streetside retail and upper residential, but I just don't think that's a realistic possibility at this time. This parcel isn't terribly large and any extensive use is going to require parking. The small parcel size with parking constraints would require a) a parking garage or b) a lot of underground parking. Those costs would make any realistic mixed use development here financially impossible for the time being. So the problem is finding balance. A larger single story retail development eats into the amount of available parking spaces while at the same time creating the need for more parking. A smaller development leaves more space for parking with less demand and less leasable space. So it ends up being, what's the most leasable space you can build that meets the amount of surface parking available? Then of course, you've got the church that takes up a quarter of the block. If you are required to develop around that, the chance that the church ever gets turned into anything else is slim to none. There's no parking at all on that parcel and virtually no nearby on street parking. Whether we like it or not, we still have to plan for parking, especially for this kind of development. A grocery store/retail strip without ample parking just won't fly, even in a neighborhood like this ... especially with a 55 bus that only runs 5 days a week, hourly outside of rush hour. So hopefully whatever does end up getting built, looks similar to what we already have; retail on Clifton with hidden parking in the back.
November 28, 201212 yr Wait, the CDC is doing this? If so, what exactly is the matter with the Cudell/Edgewater CDC? CDC's should be about urban, walkable, neighborhood-oriented development. Something has gone horrifically awry here. Cudell and it's people might as well be stuck in 1974. They don't comprehend making the neighborhood livable for the future. They want to celebrate success stories of the "now", like a new sign at Constantino's, or a rehabbed gas station EZ Mart. You can try posting something your opposition on their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/152391705199/?ref=ts&fref=ts But true to their time warp, Cudell doesn't understand social media and will promptly delete anything "negative" or against their intentions. They are also seeking nominations for the board if you're interested. ;) Who exactly are the stakeholders that are keeping the Cudell Improvement District stuck in 1974? This is Chris Ronayne's neighborhood. I live just across 117 in Lakewood, as does KJP. Don't tell me there aren't progressive types that live around here. A lot of people chose the Lakewood/Edgewater border region because it is fairly nice, historic, and urban. We like walking from our house, to the rapid or bus stop to go downtown, and then pick up a few groceries on our walk back home. If this is the way that the Cudell CDC is, then I really question who is being served and represented by the Cudell CDC. How do you have a CDC that doesn't encourage democratic, community, grass-roots planning? I've never really seen a "bad CDC" until now. Sure, some could be better - but none do things that are truly wrongheaded. All of their staff and directors, volunteers, stakeholders, etc. - are all going to the same seminars, right?? My lanta..
November 29, 201212 yr Wait, the CDC is doing this? If so, what exactly is the matter with the Cudell/Edgewater CDC? CDC's should be about urban, walkable, neighborhood-oriented development. Something has gone horrifically awry here. Cudell and it's people might as well be stuck in 1974. They don't comprehend making the neighborhood livable for the future. They want to celebrate success stories of the "now", like a new sign at Constantino's, or a rehabbed gas station EZ Mart. You can try posting something your opposition on their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/152391705199/?ref=ts&fref=ts But true to their time warp, Cudell doesn't understand social media and will promptly delete anything "negative" or against their intentions. They are also seeking nominations for the board if you're interested. ;) Who exactly are the stakeholders that are keeping the Cudell Improvement District stuck in 1974? Here are the people of CDC: http://www.cudell.com/who.asp I'm sure no one is deliberately holding back progress. Just in my dealings I feel they want to take the path of least resistance. They are more comfortable doing the same thing, year after year. Mr Westbrook is the same way--a good guy, but not willing to stand up and fight the good fight necessary now that the areas demographics are quickly changing.
November 29, 201212 yr The other villain here is the city's planning department. Time for a major scale-up of form-based zoning on our salvageable corridors. It's not pie in the sky, other car-centric cities have done it.
November 29, 201212 yr "but not willing to stand up and fight the good fight necessary now that the areas demographics are quickly changing. " Man, this keeps coming up and I'm just not sure that perception matches reality. Do we have fresh census figures yet for these tracts? I'm looking forward to Kens article. I keep refreshing cle.com and waiting.
November 29, 201212 yr "but not willing to stand up and fight the good fight necessary now that the areas demographics are quickly changing. " Man, this keeps coming up and I'm just not sure that perception matches reality. Do we have fresh census figures yet for these tracts? I'm looking forward to Kens article. I keep refreshing cle.com and waiting. DeanSheen how long have you been in that area?
November 29, 201212 yr The other villain here is the city's planning department. Time for a major scale-up of form-based zoning on our salvageable corridors. It's not pie in the sky, other car-centric cities have done it. Looks like these are the people to contact: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/farWest.shtml Here's when they meet: 8:00 a.m. – Generally 2nd & 4th Wednesdays of the month (schedule/agenda) St. Mel’s Catholic Church – 14436 Triskett Road Some good info on that page: 341.01 Purpose Design Review requirements and districts are established to ensure appropriate design of buildings and properties in furtherance of the following objectives: (a) to protect property values and to preserve and enhance the character of existing neighborhoods and development, (b) to promote economic activity and increase municipal revenues, © to enhance the visual image of Cleveland and its neighborhoods and downtown, (d) to preserve the community’s architectural assets, and (e) to protect the environment and facilitate healthy living
November 29, 201212 yr "but not willing to stand up and fight the good fight necessary now that the areas demographics are quickly changing. " Man, this keeps coming up and I'm just not sure that perception matches reality. Do we have fresh census figures yet for these tracts? I'm looking forward to Kens article. I keep refreshing cle.com and waiting. DeanSheen how long have you been in that area? 1993 so 19 years living. 24 years around there. I get it. I know. Carry on.
November 29, 201212 yr The article hasn't been published yet, or at least I haven't found it on cleveland.com yet. So here's the gist of my article.... Since the church has remained vacant for more than 20 years with little interest by developers to renovate it for new uses, Councilman Westbrook approached Carnegie Companies (the owner of the rest of that block bounded by West 117th, Lake, West 116th, Clifton) with the idea of the city selling the church to Carnegie. The city bought the church property from Riser Foods in the 1990s to save the church from demolition as the grocer store owner wanted to demolish it for parking. So now conversations are underway between the city and Carnegie for the sale of the church. Carnegie representatives reportedly told the city it would like to have the flexibility of developing all four corners of that block. Among all the possible site plans they could have presented to the city as part of its application to the landmark commission to demolish the retail strip (not the church!) is one that would ultimately involve demolishing the church. So there you have it. Some pictures I shot this morning of the church..... And one of the corner of West 117th and Clifton, showing the retail strip to be demolished because of structural problems in the basement. The application to demolish these 60-year-old retail buildings is pending tomorrow before the Landmarks Commission.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 29, 201212 yr Wow! So wait. Westbrook approached Carnegie about selling it, not vice versa? Jeez! What developer wouldn't want the entire block to develop? of course they'd want to demo this ASAP. This makes me so angry that our councilman is pretty much actively seeking this building's demise! This whole thing is turning into a circus. First we hear that any plans are just "place holders", now we see the potential demo of this? Can't the city just say, "No, there will be no demolitions until you have an anchor tenant announced and you have a site plan that we can approve." This demo now, throw a site plan up later for review with a "maybe tenant" lined up isn't going to fly! Look what happened to Cedar Center North. Demolition first. Then they were promised the world with amazing urban designs and mixed use. Well iteration after iteration after iteration later, they got a suburban style strip mall 5 years later. I will not let that happen with this property. No bait and switch!
November 29, 201212 yr Hmm. I read the article. Heinens is local, do you think a petition to incorporate the existing church would go further with them than say, a national franchise? I hope that stays up. It should be used for something, anything.
November 29, 201212 yr Here it is.... Historic Fifth Church of Christ Scientist in Cleveland may be sold, razed for development Published: Wednesday, November 28, 2012, 8:51 PM Updated: Wednesday, November 28, 2012, 8:51 PM By Ken Prendergast, Sun News Cleveland officials are discussing selling a landmark church to a developer who could incorporate it into a block-sized retail project. Demolishing the church is among the development options. The city bought the vacant Fifth Church of Christ Scientist, 11623 Lake Ave., near the Lakewood border, in the 1990s to save it from demolition by the neighboring grocery store owned by Riser Foods. The 85-year-old church was awarded landmark status by the city as an additional protection. But the aging church has sat unused for more than two decades with little interest by developers to renovate it for new users. That prompted Ward 16 Councilman Jay Westbrook to contact Carnegie Companies Inc. READ MORE AT: http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2012/11/historic_fifth_church_of_chris.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 29, 201212 yr Are there any interior pictures of that church? Not that I've seen. I'd like to change that. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 29, 201212 yr ^Here's one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/33322111@N00/3376961076/#in/photostream/
November 29, 201212 yr ^Here's one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/33322111@N00/3376961076/#in/photostream/ Good find. Wow. That's pretty rough looking in there. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 29, 201212 yr Yeah remember they removed all the marble and anything of value from the inside.
November 29, 201212 yr And remember this from a few years ago? http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/09/cleveland_to_spend_298000_to_k.html The city spent nearly $300,000 for repairs, looks like money well spent. Too bad this building somehow couldn't be incorporated into the enhance clifton project so it'd finally get the needed remodel. I'm sure something creative could be thought up.
November 29, 201212 yr So it seems the church is the only thing standing the way of another Walgreens or similar monstrosity courtesy of Mr Westbrook. "SAVE THE CHURCH!!"
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