I hadn't seen Willy's edit before I typed that.  As originally posted ("Gee I wonder how he was made aware..?") I took it as that someone let the cat out of the bag by telling the owner about the meeting.  I wasn't suggesting that you could/should compel attendance.  I was simply and probably mistakenly responding to the notion that you wouldn't want him there.

Neighbors, the meeting to discuss signage for Classic Coin & Gold is Monday, January 13th at noon at 9821 Lorain Avenue. I have information that the building owner has been made aware of the local opposition and has indicated he might be at the meeting. Matt Zone will definitely be there to voice strong opposition to any signage.

 

If you are available to appear, and believe our neighborhood would be better served by a different type of business, please come and be heard. We may yet have a chance to demand better. Like if you'll be there! And thank you in advance

 

DeanSheen, I expected you to give an update from the meeting regarding the coin shop in the Wilsher Building.  So what did you find out?

 

The signage was rejected and it's unclear if the lease will be executed.

 

While some neighbors seemed appeased by the business description from the business owner and constructive feedback re: signage from committee, many residents remain skeptical and unhappy about the prospect of the business locating there.

I heard that a developer is interested in turning the church on 117th and Clifton into a rock climbing facility. 8), as far as I know, he's still trying to get the site plan together, but I'd love to hear more about it.

I hope its more than that, like an active sports complex with an organic food restaurant, etc.

TWO PROSPECTS EAGER TO REPURPOSE FIFTH CHURCH!!!

 

Developer and their team of experts have made themselves known to the City!

 

Multimillion dollar concept! Local historic renovation track record!

 

Intent on coexisting and working in collaboration with "Shoppes on Clifton" developer as well as anchor tenant Giant Eagle to transform Edgewater into Cleveland's NEXT HOTTEST neighborhood!

 

Chose Edgewater neighborhood and Fifth Church because of demographics, location, walkable nature of area, RTA transportation, Edgewater Park, and enthusiasm to bring back glory and pride to the circa 1926 signature structure!

 

Councilman Matt Zone not set on allowing prospects to present concept to community. Neighbors in Action encourages YOU to sign petition urging Zone to LET THE PROSPECTS PRESENT!

 

FULL STORY & PETITION at, www.NeighborsInAction.Info

 

LIKE US and SHARE with others on FACEBOOK,

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Neighbors-in-Action/570311742988541

^That's nice.  Such exquisite old architecture as the church should not so easily be lost.  Let's home NIA wins this.

PROSPECTS NAMED - EAGER TO REPURPOSE FIFTH CHURCH!

 

Local multi talented writer Michael Gill’s exclusive look into the two prospects eager to boost the EDGEWATER neighborhood into CLEVELAND’S NEXT HIGHLY DESIRABLE DESTINATION LOCATION.

 

Read Story, http://tinyurl.com/ka7znty

 

Now the big question - Will the neighborhood and the City recognize this extraordinary opportunity and be willing to welcome them?

 

REPURPOSE Fifth Church & REVITALIZE Edgewater! NIA encourages you to sign our petition supporting an adaptive reuse of Fifth Church and to share your thoughts with Councilman Matt Zone.

 

His office confirmed they have been receiving your correspondences of support since the petition went into effect last Wednesday. THE TIME IS NOW! MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!

 

SIGN PETITION, http://tinyurl.com/m9vv9as

I dunno.  Even if it's only $2 million to rehab the building, I don't see rock climbing as a feasible means to recoup that without public money.  The writer unfairly compares an abandoned factory on a minor street to an abandoned church on prime real estate.  I wish them the best if they can pull it off, but not holding my breath.

Well at least they will have the opportunity to be vetted.  I'm concerned about Carnegie/Giant Eagle becoming upset and having this project drag on even longer. 

 

It all seemed pretty simple with the land swap for condos after demolition but I guess we will have to wait awhile longer to find out what this project will ultimately become. It would be nice to have the church appropriately re purposed but at what cost?

If rock climbing is all they will offer, I don't see it happening. How much revenue can that bring in?

Why can't Giant Eagle and the church renovation work together?  Why does Giant Eagle need so much parking?  The Starbucks across the street has about 4 parking spots and seems to be crammed full of people and does extremely well...

>Why does Giant Eagle need so much parking?

 

Their preference or possibly better stated the projects requirements.  Also, zoning requirements.  The zoning requirement for parking has already been reduced in the existing plan.

FIFTH CHURCH - THIS SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 9!

 

Local group City Beautiful has chosen Fifth Church of Christ, Scientist as one of three historic structures that will be shown "a little love" this Sunday, February 9.

 

The group chose Fifth Church because of the danger that continues to exist to potentially demolish the designated landmark despite interest made known to the City of Cleveland and Councilman Matt Zone by Walter "Chick" Holtkamp and Niki Zmij, two prospects eager to repurpose the landmark into a state-of-the-art rock climbing facility.

 

City Beautiful is inviting everyone to join them at their Downtown studio this Sunday at 12 p.m. to craft hearts, which will then be placed at the sites of all three structures.

 

Other cities, including Buffalo have "heart-bombed" as a way of raising awareness about the important role historic structures have in representing a significant portion of a neighborhood's history and creating a "sense of place," often driving people and money into these urban neighborhoods opposed to the suburbs.

 

SHOW FIFTH CHURCH A LITTLE LOVE, http://tinyurl.com/mceucyh

 

Or visit, www.NeighborsInAction.Info

As a former rock climber I use to visit the Cleveland Rock Gym (which still exists) during the winters and once the weather broke I was then either at Hinckley or off to Kentucky, mid-Ohio, or PA for outdoor climbing, just as were most others I knew that were in the sport.  For the six years I was active in climbing, I can recall that there were never more than a dozen people at the rock gym at any given time.

 

While I think the church was once a neat building, I think its time to level it and move on.  As for turning it into a rock gym, my two concerns would be 1) you are dealing with a very finite market in this area of the country for that sport (unless things have drastically changed over the past 10 years) and 2) in light of that, if still true, this would seem cost prohibitive considering the expense in rehabing the structure and what I would think its expected level of use would be post-rehab.

 

I'm claiming no expert knowledge here - these are just my general observations and thoughts.  Would look forward to hearing if others agree or disagree and why.

If it's just rock climbing, I don't think it will be enough.  If they add a cafe and wellness center, it might be feasable.  There seems to be a lot of interest in healthy living along Clifton. There is Liquid Planet, Earth cafe, a massage studio and Anytime Fitness in the area.

Neighbors in Action and CBNA ANNOUNCE SPECIAL WEEKEND!

 

Neighbors in Action and Clifton-Baltic Neighborhood Association have collaborated to announce "Show Your Love For Edgewater," February 14th, 15th and 16th - A special weekend of DINING, SHOPPING, and (RE)DISCOVERING all of the great businesses along Clifton Boulevard!

 

Thoughtful development helps define a neighborhood, and we honor those who have chosen to call Edgewater their home!

 

From the Diner on Clifton to the landmark restaurant Don's Lighthouse Grille and all others in between, shake off the winter blues and experience OUR / YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD all over again!

 

For more Info, visit http://www.neighborsinaction.info/februaryhappenings.htm

FIFTH CHURCH HEART-BOMBED!

 

http://www.neighborsinaction.info/februaryhappenings.htm

 

Please share with others!

"In other news, Twist, one of the last businesses in the strip on the southeast corner of Clifton and 117th will likely be closing very soon, as the owner is now in Hospice."

 

Since this reference was made earlier in the thread, it's with deepest regret that I pass along the info that he passed away last night. :(

^yes, thats too bad.  I know he had been struggling for quite some time. 

Sad for the neighborhood and community.  Maybe there can be a memorial bench outside as a part of the new Enchance Clifton streetscaping.

More on the rock climbing proposal.

 

http://m.clevescene.com/cleveland/climbing-up-the-walls-a-rock-climbing-couple-from-tremont-wants-to-bring-vertical-fun-to-an-ancient-church/Content?oid=3846585

More on the rock climbing proposal.

 

http://m.clevescene.com/cleveland/climbing-up-the-walls-a-rock-climbing-couple-from-tremont-wants-to-bring-vertical-fun-to-an-ancient-church/Content?oid=3846585

 

"Ancient"? Chuckles. Gotta luv Americans.

This is very good news, and is a possible outgrowth of the West 117th development masterplan conducted jointly with Lakewood a few years ago. However, given the specific site/description of this proposed rezoning (it is only a portion of the area addressed by the masterplan), this appears to be in response to something other than the masterplan....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2014/03212014/index.php

 

CLEVELAND CITY PLANNING COMMISSION

Draft Agenda for March 21, 2014

 

ZONING MAP AMENDMENTS

1. Ordinance No. 309-14(Ward 15/Councilmember Zone): Changing the Use, Area and Height Districts of lands located on the east side of West 117th Street and on both sides of West 116th Street along the railroad t racks and south of Clifton Boulevard to General Retail Business, Local Retail Business, Multi-Family Residential, Two-Family Residential, a 'B', 'C' or 'D' Area District and a '1', '2' or '3' Height District from a Semi-Industry District.

 

This was the northern part of the West 117th masterplan from a few years ago.......

 

What do the Area District and Height District codes mean?  I am not familiar with zoning laws.

What do the Area District and Height District codes mean?  I am not familiar with zoning laws.

 

So the text says the area described is all currently zoned as semi-industrial, including both sides of West 116th which is still single-family homes, doubles and apartment buildings. That makes them non-conforming uses. In other words, if one of those houses burns down, it can't be rebuilt as a house. But an assembly plant could be built there! That's surprising.

 

A little less surprising is the proposed height. A height district, such a Height District-1, allows buildings up to 35 feet in height. A Height District-2 allows up to 60 feet. And a Height District-3 allows up to 115 feet. I suspect the Height District-3 will be applied to the east side of West 117th or perhaps the south side of Clifton.

 

The B, C, D Area Districts refers to how much of a property (or lot) can be occupied by a building and what the minimum lot area is allowed for a specific use.

 

The zoning and district definitions are at:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/gis/cpc/ZONINGLEGEND.pdf

^Cool, thanks!  I always learn something new on UO  :-D

Been driving around more lately trying to keep my eyes peeled.

 

Anyone know what is going in that building North of Peppers on Detroit?  Looks like they are redoing or replacing the brick facade on that place.

Been driving around more lately trying to keep my eyes peeled.

 

Anyone know what is going in that building North of Peppers on Detroit?  Looks like they are redoing or replacing the brick facade on that place.

 

Yes. That's been a work in progress (without much progress) for a LONG time.

FIRST LOOK AT FIFTH CHURCH REPURPOSE PROPOSAL!

 

Chick Holtkamp and Niki Zmij confirmed they have met the City of Cleveland's March 27th (12 p.m.) RFP deadline and have submitted a formal proposal to repurpose Fifth Church of Christ, Scientist into a state-of-the-art rock climbing and wellness center.

 

The 96-page proposal (which includes an underground parking garage and OPTION for a public green space OR townhomes), contains elevations & site plans, letters from Architect Jonathan Sandvick and Jera Construction Management confirming that the adaptive reuse of Fifth Church is highly achievable, even in its current state of disrepair.

 

The full proposal and other documents can be viewed at, www.NeighborsInAction.info  

 

The City of Cleveland is expected to make a final determination on Friday, April 4 as to which developer will be granted the opportunity to redevelop the City of Cleveland-owned "parcel." If another developer is chosen, designated landmark Fifth Church could still be in danger of being demolished if a developer's plans call for it.

 

The public is encouraged to contact Councilman Matt Zone and tell the councilman you support the adaptive reuse of Fifth Church.

 

 

OVERVIEW

 

> Official proposal to repurpose Fifth Church into state-of-the-art rock climbing and wellness center, engaging audiences from 5 to 95 years old!

 

> Requesting a "conditional use rezoning" to avoid permanent "commercial rezoning" to appease executive board of Edgewater Homeowners' Association (View description in City of Cleveland Code of Ordinances; Chapter 333.02 Zoning Map Amendments)

 

> Proposal includes construction of an underground parking garage along Lake Avenue and gives the City and the neighborhood option of EITHER a public green space OR townhomes (includes set back) to be built above / adjacent to Fifth Church!

 

> Acclaimed Architect Jonathan Sandvick and team officially named to spearhead development (Past projects include: Tower Press, Old Arcade, Fenn Tower, Bingham Building, and more)!

 

> Jera Construction Management officially named to spearhead development along with Sandvick Architects (Past projects include: Gospel Press (Tremont), Gwinn Estate, Grace Hospital, and more)!

 

> $3.5 million dollar development!

 

> Would create 30 to 40 full and part-time positions!

 

> Rockwerx anticipates "The Sanctuary at Edgewater" could be "one of the most unique and talked about facilities in the country!"

 

> The Sanctuary would not hold up development of the future "Shoppes on Clifton" or impede on their parking! 

 

> Plan would poise the Edgewater neighborhood to be both a local and regional "destination location!" 

 

As a building preservationist and rock climbing enthusiast that lives in Lakewood, I can barely contain my excitement over this bold proposal.

Fingers crossed!!!!

 

Contacting Mr. Zone right now.

 

Haven't been over to this area in a while until today when I passed through! Wow is it ugly! That whole demolished lot looks terrible. And the buildings across the street seem to be in far worse shape than before. Also is that gas station on the Cleveland side new? I don't remember it being there. The whole street just looks very sad and terrible.

Haven't been over to this area in a while until today when I passed through! Wow is it ugly! That whole demolished lot looks terrible. And the buildings across the street seem to be in far worse shape than before. Also is that gas station on the Cleveland side new? I don't remember it being there. The whole street just looks very sad and terrible.

 

Yeah, when they tore down that corner in late 2012 it's been a terrible eyesore ever since. That gas station was "remodeled" in 2009, IIRC.

 

At least Enhance Clifton is finally in real progress after years and years of waiting. By fall, there will be a much needed facelift to the streetscape.

 

Fingers crossed on the church repurposing. It seemed that it was beyond the point of economically viable repair. Kudos to the folks who searched for viable options!

Haven't been over to this area in a while until today when I passed through! Wow is it ugly! That whole demolished lot looks terrible. And the buildings across the street seem to be in far worse shape than before. Also is that gas station on the Cleveland side new? I don't remember it being there. The whole street just looks very sad and terrible.

 

Yeah, when they tore down that corner in late 2012 it's been a terrible eyesore ever since. That gas station was "remodeled" in 2009, IIRC.

 

At least Enhance Clifton is finally in real progress after years and years of waiting. By fall, there will be a much needed facelift to the streetscape.

 

Fingers crossed on the church repurposing. It seemed that it was beyond the point of economically viable repair. Kudos to the folks who searched for viable options!

 

My only hope is that the church plan doesn't make it easier to let the rest of the site become another strip mall.    There seems to be too many factions all working towards something different here.  Everyone needs to combine forces.

Haven't been over to this area in a while until today when I passed through! Wow is it ugly! That whole demolished lot looks terrible. And the buildings across the street seem to be in far worse shape than before. Also is that gas station on the Cleveland side new? I don't remember it being there. The whole street just looks very sad and terrible.

 

Yeah, when they tore down that corner in late 2012 it's been a terrible eyesore ever since. That gas station was "remodeled" in 2009, IIRC.

 

At least Enhance Clifton is finally in real progress after years and years of waiting. By fall, there will be a much needed facelift to the streetscape.

 

Fingers crossed on the church repurposing. It seemed that it was beyond the point of economically viable repair. Kudos to the folks who searched for viable options!

 

My only hope is that the church plan doesn't make it easier to let the rest of the site become another strip mall.    There seems to be too many factions all working towards something different here.  Everyone needs to combine forces.

 

Wow, I'm impressed, they are serious!  The PDF says that the neighborhood is concerned about the rezoning and it setting up future commercial developments.  However, the gym would be rezoned to a recreational use.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zy4rzcfoholcbn3/The%20Sanctuary%20at%20Edgewater%20Proposal_3.27.14.pdf

I'm guessing a 10% chance on the rock climbing.

 

We shall see.

Here you go: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/lakeRFP.php

 

 

Wow the Brickhaus rendering looks impressive!

^I did not read the 3 proposals in detail at this point (intend to do so) but WOW the Brickhaus conceptuals are something else and would look great at that intersection given the surrounding neighborhood.  Also, proven track record of financing and getting things done.

As for the Brickhaus one, I'm assuming that's just a facade. 

 

Would be sweet if it was actual stone, it does look really nice.

The Brickhaus townhomes are stunning, but I'm really liking the ones in the Sanctuary proposal too.

 

I kinda find it funny that in the Lake Ave proposal, the Orlean company shows the Meadowbrook project in Cleveland Hts as one of their current projects, even though that has now been defunct for quite some time.

I think that both the Sanctuary/Serenity and Brickhaus plans are great and either one would be a winner, but that City Architecture/Lake Ave. proposal just looked awful. It totally disregards the church and that design is so blah.

Anything that City Architecture does is going to end up bad. They're honestly a really terrible firm and hearing from someone who worked with them, the owner has basically gotten to the point of not caring anymore and ready to retire and as such they've lost a lot of their best talent.

 

The Brickhaus proposal is...garish. I can't get behind something that faux old. It reminds me of some of the weird attempts at old stone architecture you see in cities that weren't around when people were actually building that style.

 

The Sanctuary plan is the most interesting to me. But overall these all seem to be missing the mark in some way or another.

I apologize for my ignorance but what are the next steps here?

 

-Does the city choose one of these proposals and it begins moving forward?

-Is this land currently owned by the city or would the current developer have to sell it or hand it over?

-Does anyone else have a say in the matter?

 

I am really hoping the Sanctuary plan wins out because I'd love to see the church re-purposed and I would use the climbing walls.  However, there is no denying how good the Brickhaus proposal looks.

I apologize for my ignorance but what are the next steps here?

 

-Does the city choose one of these proposals and it begins moving forward?

-Is this land currently owned by the city or would the current developer have to sell it or hand it over?

-Does anyone else have a say in the matter?

 

I am really hoping the Sanctuary plan wins out because I'd love to see the church re-purposed and I would use the climbing walls.  However, there is no denying how good the Brickhaus proposal looks.

 

This is where our government will fail us, by not thinking outside the box.  Why not put the two proposals together?  Why not sit down with both developers and work out a solution that includes the Brickhaus and saves the church? 

Anything that City Architecture does is going to end up bad. They're honestly a really terrible firm and hearing from someone who worked with them, the owner has basically gotten to the point of not caring anymore and ready to retire and as such they've lost a lot of their best talent.

 

The Brickhaus proposal is...garish. I can't get behind something that faux old. It reminds me of some of the weird attempts at old stone architecture you see in cities that weren't around when people were actually building that style.

 

The Sanctuary plan is the most interesting to me. But overall these all seem to be missing the mark in some way or another.

 

If you actually read the proposal, it says materials are being repurposed from the church, including refurbished balustrades. The Sanctuary proposal is barely half-baked. I'm pretty sure the townhouse they show are just images of the ones on Prospect.

The Brickhaus proposal is incredible. The proposal says the stone exterior and balustrades on the front deck will be reclaimed from the church exterior. If you have to demolish the church, this is the best option.

 

The Sanctuary proposal needs those townhomes to have any chance of getting accepted. The proposal said "If desired by the neighborhood and the City administration, the developers are prepared to build several townhomes above the garage." The throw-in rendering for the townhomes is pretty swank though. We don't have nearly enough of this style of house in Cleveland.

 

The City Architecture proposal sucked.

 

 

Two unrelated observations: (1) Why does every rendering from Dimit depict some weird ivy growing down walls and balconies? (2) And why are so many townhomes built stair-stepped to the street. The asymmetry drives me crazy. Just build them perpendicular to the street.

The Brickhaus proposal is...garish. I can't get behind something that faux old. It reminds me of some of the weird attempts at old stone architecture you see in cities that weren't around when people were actually building that style.

 

Some of the best buildings have taken inspiration from past architectural movements. ie: Gothic revival architecture.

 

As long as the materials are of good quality, I am very much on board with the Brickhaus proposal.

The materials aren't the issue. I understand stuff will be reused from the old church, but that doesn't mean it's not faux old. It just very rarely works out. It almost always ends up looking ridiculous. I'm just very much of the opinion that if it isn't old, it shouldn't try to look old. It taints what actually is old in the area. New architecture that compliments the old rather than mimic it often results in a better end product (when the new buildings are actually done right and not like the City Architecture crap).