September 9, 200816 yr Cant answer and I feel as though comparing Ryanair and Skybus in two different markets is irrelevant. You're right, comparing two different markets is irrelevant. Everything is the same, MTC, except Ryanair is still in business. Actually, MTC is completely right, for the reasons I stated above.
September 9, 200816 yr Cant answer and I feel as though comparing Ryanair and Skybus in two different markets is irrelevant. You're right, comparing two different markets is irrelevant. Everything is the same, MTC, except Ryanair is still in business. Actually, MTC is completely right, for the reasons I stated above. I read your post thoroughly and you could easily replace Ryanair with Skybus, and replace the European cities with US cities. The only difference that I see, are your points about public transport to the city center and the fact that Ryanair became a company before Skybus did? Am I the only one reading it this way? Btw, I'm not sure how you translated "I can't answer and I feel as though comparing Ryanair and Skybus in two different markets is irrelevant." translates to what you just said? lol ... He probably meant to say "I can't answer, because Ryanair and Skybus are in two different markets." ... am I right, MTC?
September 9, 200816 yr Lastly, just because Ryanair has been incredibly successful does not mean they aren't susceptible to market conditions that have been ravaging the airline industry. Fuel costs have hurt Ryanair's balance sheet as well, and the airline has cut routes and destinations in response. http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0728/ryanair.html Oh, I'm sure they are ... no doubt about it (as all airlines are). Let's see how they deal with this issue. Do they close shop, or no? Anyone care to take dibs that they remain in business?
September 9, 200816 yr I read your post thoroughly and you could easily replace Ryanair with Skybus, and replace the European cities with US cities. I can't quite see how. Skybus was certainly an attempt to replicated Ryanair. My goal in the my post was to show that despite their striking similarities, the model works in one market and is a horrible failure in another. Likewise, the European cities I listed most certainly cannot be compared on an equal level to those that Skybus focused on in the U.S. My goal was to show that Ryanair established themselves in the largest population centers with equally large tourism numbers. Columbus and Greensboro (and Cincinnati) do not fit this description. Let's see how they deal with this issue. Do they close shop, or no? Anyone care to take dibs that they remain in business? Considering Ryanair's position in the European market and a cash reserve in the billions of euros, my guess is that it will take a lot to bring the airline down.
September 9, 200816 yr My goal was to show that Ryanair established themselves in the largest population centers with equally large tourism numbers. Columbus and Greensboro (and Cincinnati) do not fit this description. You should tell that to Delta, not us.
September 9, 200816 yr You should tell that to Delta, not us. Delta does not equal Skybus/Ryanair, in many more ways than one.
September 9, 200816 yr You should tell that to Delta, not us. Delta does not equal Skybus/Ryanair, in many more ways than one. Again, you can't compare a "legacy" carrier with an international route system to a "low cost carrier" playing in one (regional) market.
September 9, 200816 yr You should tell that to Delta, not us. Delta does not equal Skybus/Ryanair, in many more ways than one. No, but the concept of it being a large hub that has a ridiculous amount of direct flights to cities we all know, based out of Cincinnati is.
September 9, 200816 yr You should tell that to Delta, not us. Delta does not equal Skybus/Ryanair, in many more ways than one. No, but the concept of it being a large hub that has a ridiculous amount of direct flights to cities we all know, based out of Cincinnati is. You can't compare a hub-and-spoke system to a point-to-point system
September 9, 200816 yr Look ... 1) I think the idea is bad. 2) I commend the guy for being a crazy entrepreneur (which I highly respect). 3) This would benefit Cincy, Columbus, Dayton, and Indy. 4) This would slap Delta in the face (which I wouldn't mind right now). 5) If it flops, it flops. The only issue I would take up with this idea is, if Cincy fronted money out somehow. ... otherwise, I'll be on my way to SanFran for $10 in the not-to-distant future.
September 9, 200816 yr You should tell that to Delta, not us. Delta does not equal Skybus/Ryanair, in many more ways than one. No, but the concept of it being a large hub that has a ridiculous amount of direct flights to cities we all know, based out of Cincinnati is. You can't compare a hub-and-spoke system to a point-to-point system My point exactly.
December 5, 200816 yr CVG at a turning point Direct flights are down. Fares are at record highs. Business travel is eroding. Can our airport reclaim its clout? By James Pilcher • [email protected] • December 5, 2008 Travel managers at GE Aviation worked a deal last year that's saving the world's largest jet engine maker at least $100,000 in air fare a year. Rather than fly on Delta Air Lines from expensive Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport, the Evendale company persuaded low-fare AirTran to add a daily flight to Boston, near the home of a GE plant and frequent meeting spot. The kicker? The flight begins and ends in Dayton. The round trip requires a stop in Atlanta, but it's nearly $400 cheaper than a direct flight from Cincinnati's airport. The story illustrates the loosening hold of CVG on the region's economic growth. Once a major business magnet, the airport that helped recruit Toyota, Ashland and countless other top companies now faces mounting frustrations over fewer flights to fewer places - and fares that consistently are highest in the nation. In a sharp departure from the past, business fliers are now following leisure travelers to cheaper flights at airports in Dayton, Columbus, Lexington, Louisville and Indianapolis. Executives at three-fourths of more than 30 local companies told the Enquirer that they're using those airports more than ever. Read full article here: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081205/BIZ01/812070302/1055/NEWS
December 5, 200816 yr ^^ Whether you guys wanna believe MTS or not on the other thread, he is right. Delta is pulling down the CVG hub. The only other hub that have seen the size of operational reductions of the scope of CVG's since 2001 is PIT. Pittsburgh's traffic is so weak now (9 million pax annually) it's a "focus city" in name only. Northern Kentucky needs to get serious about attracting other carriers and attracting local folks to fly out CVG. If Delta were to leave altoghther and it's a real possibility after this merger is complete..the hole left would be hard to fill quickly. The fact that Delta has to charge such high fares for locals to keep CVG profitable certainly isn't a bonus for an low cost carrier to move in with a large operation. The fact the Delta has halved the opearation at CVG and yet no other carrier is interested in at least exploring the possibility of CVG is disconcerting at best. Runway length, or approach conditions don't matter if the carriers bottom line is going to be in the red to opeate from there no matter how it's spun.
December 5, 200816 yr CVG at a turning point Direct flights are down. Fares are at record highs. Business travel is eroding. Can our airport reclaim its clout? By James Pilcher, Cincinnati Enquirer, December 5, 2008 Travel managers at GE Aviation worked a deal last year that's saving the world's largest jet engine maker at least $100,000 in air fare a year. Rather than fly on Delta Air Lines from expensive Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport, the Evendale company persuaded low-fare AirTran to add a daily flight to Boston, near the home of a GE plant and frequent meeting spot. The kicker? The flight begins and ends in Dayton. The round trip requires a stop in Atlanta, but it's nearly $400 cheaper than a direct flight from Cincinnati's airport. The story illustrates the loosening hold of CVG on the region's economic growth. Once a major business magnet, the airport that helped recruit Toyota, Ashland and countless other top companies now faces mounting frustrations over fewer flights to fewer places - and fares that consistently are highest in the nation. In a sharp departure from the past, business fliers are now following leisure travelers to cheaper flights at airports in Dayton, Columbus, Lexington, Louisville and Indianapolis. Executives at three-fourths of more than 30 local companies told the Enquirer that they're using those airports more than ever. "Unless you're suffering from delusion, you realize that the Cincinnati airport is now really in Dayton," aviation expert Darryl Jenkins says. The Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber is so concerned about the airport's diminishing influence that it will partner next month with airport officials to conduct a comprehensive survey of local travel habits. The fear: The high cost of doing business at the airport is starting to outweigh CVG's clout in bringing and keeping jobs here. Read full article with link.
December 5, 200816 yr This is heartbreaking although this has been going on all over for a while. I remember flying into PIT (first int'l trip to Paris) and STL in their haydays...I was so jealous CLE wasn't as big but now its mediocre status looks to have faired the best...at least as of right now... :| Good luck down there!
December 5, 200816 yr 10 million passengers? Wow. IND carries 8 million with no hub (far fewer cities served, however) and CMH is not far behind. It looks like the hub is on its way out, just like for PIT. Cincy is in an interesting position regionally. It either has the largest catchment area (for amusement parks, IKEA, and other "super-regional" attractions") or the smallest (because it is hemmed in by other small cities). I suspect that for air traffic, absent a hub, Cincy has a rather small catchment area that extends only a short way outside its MSA. The best example of this is the Economic Area size. Cincy has an MSA population over 2 million, but its EA population is only 2.3 million. In effect, Cincy's sphere of influence, outside of a few super-regional attractions and increasing consolidation with Dayton, is very small. Contrast with Cleveland, whose MSA population is about the same as Cincy's, but whose EA population is 4.6 million.
December 5, 200816 yr The location of the airport messes with the numbers. If you live north of 275, it is nearly as easy to go to Dayton as it is CVG. It could be the airport for much of eastern KY because Lexington just doesn't have that much service. If Delta lets the hub go, it may go along along at a near dormant state (but depending on your analysis of the future of air travel), it could come roaring back, because it sit at the center of spoke instead at the edge (which all the other competitors do). Don't underestimate the better quality of physical and fiscal plant than the similar airports that have lost hub status (PIT and St. Louis). On the other hand, it could all not matter if the peak oil folks are right and instead we are ahead of the game in getting out the air travel boondoogle.
December 5, 200816 yr I just checked the map, Dayton is considered a separate economic area, interestingly. That's where we'd probably see some lines drawn on the map. The Dayton-Springfield-Greenville economic area could easily be dismantled and distributed to the other areas. It doesn't seem like a coherent trading area on its face.
December 5, 200816 yr I just checked the map, Dayton is considered a separate economic area, interestingly. That's where we'd probably see some lines drawn on the map. The Dayton-Springfield-Greenville economic area could easily be dismantled and distributed to the other areas. It doesn't seem like a coherent trading area on its face. could you link to that map?
December 5, 200816 yr Here's the site. http://www.bea.gov/regional/docs/econlist.cfm I recommend the "Interactive Map" option.
January 9, 200916 yr End of Concourse C means changes By James Pilcher, Cincinnati Enquirer, January 8, 2009 The closing of venerable Concourse C has brought new sights and pathways for passengers at the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport. Erlanger-based Comair, which had operated primarily out of the building since it opened in 1994, officially stopped flights there on Dec. 31. But in moving to Concourses A and B, parent Delta Air Lines and Comair have had to re-label gates and change some boarding procedures for passengers. That's especially true at Concourse A, previously lightly used by Atlanta-based Delta at its local hub. The airline began thinning out flights from Concourse C soon after the announcement, and shuttered the doors on New Year's Eve - but Comair has been gradually winding down other operations over the past week. Read full article with link.
January 14, 200916 yr Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber, the airport, the Northern Kentucky Chamber of Commerce, the convention and visitors bureaus from both sides of the river, and Tri-ED, Northern Kentucky's economic development agency are sponsoring an online survey to show CVG they lose business because of their high prices. It's a very short survey so everyone get clicking: http://www.cvgsurvey.com Tell CVG: End sky-high fares By James Pilcher • [email protected] • January 14, 2009 Tired of the high airfares at Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport? Weary from those treks to Dayton or Louisville to catch a cheaper flight? Now's your time to vent. Officials at the airport have teamed with the region's largest business, economic development and tourism groups to start an online survey for business and leisure travelers to determine who uses the local airport and, more important, who instead flies out of one of the other five airports within a two-hour drive. The online effort, which can be found at www.cvgsurvey.com, is sponsored by the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber, the airport, the Northern Kentucky Chamber of Commerce, the convention and visitors bureaus from both sides of the river, and Tri-ED, Northern Kentucky's economic development agency. "We're trying to get good data to get to Delta and other airlines to show them that there is a lot of business in Cincinnati that they are not getting and that we can offer a lot at CVG," said Arlyn Easton, chairman of the Cincinnati chamber's air service committee and the former chairman of the Kenton County Airport Board, which oversees the local airport operation. Read full article here: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090114/BIZ01/901140324
January 19, 200916 yr Can't comment much further, but I can confirm a new airline will announce service out of Cincinnati this week. There fares won't be as outrageous like Delta's and they will fly to popular business destinations...
January 19, 200916 yr Excellent! But really it isn't much closer to me than Dayton. In fact, nothing is close to Oxford. :(
January 19, 200916 yr Cool. Though the drive to Dayton isn't that bad. I've gotten used to it unfortunately.
January 19, 200916 yr Take this with a grain of salt. If this is truly a low cost carrier then Delta will run them out of town like they have all the others. I wonder if it's Skybus? The enquirer mentioned they wanted to come to Cincinnati but they needed to line up their financing first.
January 19, 200916 yr ^ I hope it isn't Skybus. I'd love to see Southwest or Jet Blue. As for Delta running them out of town, maybe not. They're clearly no longer focusing on CVG as a major hub, so that might change the dynamics of things.
January 19, 200916 yr ^ This is true. Delta's strategy before relied on taking huge losses on routes that the low cost carriers serviced also. In this day and age they may not be willing/able to pursue such a strategy.
January 19, 200916 yr SKYBUS FOLDED PEOPLE BACK IN MAY! No the airline is not SkyBus. It is a new airline that will go head to head on 4 major routes out of Cincinnati. I recommend that if you want to fly on one of these routes, book this week when the flights are announced before Delta forces them to raise their fares. I can confirm this rumor 100%! I have talked with this airline for the past 3 weeks because they are also looking very close at KYNG. I have helped in the logo design, website design, and through some route ideas in for this carrier.
January 19, 200916 yr The former skybus management people came to CVG a while back and took a tour of Terminal 1. FYI This is good news!! The people of Cincy better wake up and suppor this carrier!
January 19, 200916 yr SKYBUS FOLDED PEOPLE BACK IN MAY! I heard a rumor recently that they were coming back. After hearing my friends' experience on Skybus, I hope they don't. It is a new airline that will go head to head on 4 major routes out of Cincinnati. Oh, so it's literally new, not just new to Cincinnati. Interesting.
January 19, 200916 yr SKYBUS FOLDED PEOPLE BACK IN MAY! No the airline is not SkyBus. It is a new airline that will go head to head on 4 major routes out of Cincinnati. I recommend that if you want to fly on one of these routes, book this week when the flights are announced before Delta forces them to raise their fares. I can confirm this rumor 100%! I have talked with this airline for the past 3 weeks because they are also looking very close at KYNG. I have helped in the logo design, website design, and through some route ideas in for this carrier. Air Tran?
January 20, 200916 yr When will this information be made public? Southwest would be ideal, but any low cost carrier out of CVG with service to big cities would be great by me.
January 20, 200916 yr Sometime this week.. I can't say much more than that. I probably have said too much.. But it will be good news for CVG.
January 20, 200916 yr Also, a major Fortune 500 company is to relocate to downtown Cincinnati! The stimulus plan will cover the $2 billion needed to build a comprehensive light rail system! City of Cincinnati and West Chester Township create joint partnership, City Hall to move to Emerald City complex at Union Centre! Northern Kentucky University over takes the University of Cincinnati as regions top university, NKU students quote "We be smarter than those ghetto hoodlums!" I will take these announcements as seriously as the one about this airline. I guess we will find out at the end of the week. There is possible cut backs at ATL do to costs of a new contract. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090120/BIZ/901200309/1076/rss01 So, CVG may be able to position itself for some gains here. Lets all try to avoid this kind of chatter that seems to be accomplishing nothing beyond confusion for other people. We can discuss the possibilities of what this might be and all that jazz, but lets just be patient until YtownNewsandViews is able to share more information with us. Patience is a virtue. This is the main reason why I will edit posts instead of adding length to the thread. While YtownNewsandViews is an established member, this thread should be closed and reopened when an actual announcement is made. Otherwise, my post is no different, because I could easily say I have the inside tip on all that was typed.
January 20, 200916 yr Also, a major Fortune 500 company is to relocate to downtown Cincinnati! I will take this announcement as seriously as the one about this airline. There is possible cut backs at ATL do to costs of a new contract. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090120/BIZ/901200309/1076/rss01 So, CVG may be able to position itself for some gains here. What? I'm confused, are you being serious? A F500 company is relocating it's HEADQUARTERS here? That's big news, Cincinnati is already way over-represented in Fortune 500 company's for a region it's size.
January 20, 200916 yr I think he means that anyone could announce anything, but without some sort of proof, it's hard to get excited. It's confusing because it then flows into semi-related, verifyable news along with the hope that it may positively impact CVG, which makes it sound like cincybearcat does in fact take the original announcement seriously. I think starting a new paragraph for the second thought would have made that more clear. //edit: Not that I want to be the Urban Ohio Grammar Nazi or anything, but since there were at least 3 of us confused, I figured that I'd throw that out there before anyone else gets their hopes up.
January 20, 200916 yr Damn you Cincybearcat for editing your post and making me look like an idiot! J/K, but that's a typical UC fan for ya.....
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