FYI - Free breakfast speaker event featuring Bobby Spann, Director Air Service Development, Greater Cincinnati / Northern Kentucky International Airport

 

CINCINNATI MASONIC CENTER BREAKFAST LECTURE SERIES (BOBBY SPANN, DIRECTOR AIR SERVICE DEVELOPMENT AT CVG) - FEBRUARY 20TH The Cincinnati Masonic Center invites you, your family, friends and business associates to The Breakfast Lecture Series at the Cincinnati Masonic Center - Wednesday February 20, 2013 Featured Speaker:  Bobby Spann, Director Air Service Development, Greater Cincinnati / Northern Kentucky International Airport

Mr. Spann is responsible for managing airline relationships and developing new opportunities to grow and expand airport service. He is a travel industry leader with 25 years experience in Sales, Marketing and Operations and will speak on the recently completed 2035 Master Plan for the airport, reinvention efforts to transform CVG from an airport Hub to a Multi-Carrier transportation center and focus on the economic impact CVG has on the entire Greater Cincinnati area.

Learn more about recent CVG development successes and what is being planned for the future.

Complementary Breakfast starts at 7:45am.

Mr.Spann's presentation begins at 8:10am. Question and Answer period to follow The event is scheduled to conclude at 9:00am.

The event is free and open to the public. There is no admission charge but space is limited and an RSVP is required.

To register online click: www.cincinnatimasoniccenter.com/bls or call the Cincinnati Masonic Center at 513-421-3579.

The Cincinnati Masonic Center - 317 East Fifth St (513-421-3579)

Rather than a negative attitude, we need to encourage CVG to encourage other carriers to come in there with offerings. But to dream about a return to the glory days when Delta operated a major hub here - not likely. Cincinnati itself just does not produce enough locally generated airline traffic for this to happen.

 

Answer:  Feeder rail systems from Cincinnati/OH, Lexington and Louisville to CVG.

Cincinnati itself just does not produce enough locally generated airline traffic for this to happen. I would be happy if just enough other carriers were brought in to offset the average ticket cost so the perception of overly expensive was overcome.

There is no perception. It has the highest ticket prices in all of the USA. No wonder the locally generated airline traffic is down. They go to other surrounding airports.

Cincinnati itself just does not produce enough locally generated airline traffic for this to happen. I would be happy if just enough other carriers were brought in to offset the average ticket cost so the perception of overly expensive was overcome.

There is no perception. It has the highest ticket prices in all of the USA. No wonder the locally generated airline traffic is down. They go to other surrounding airports.

 

When it's cheaper, sure. Which is hardly all the time. I flew Delta's Cincinnati-to-Paris non-stop the week before Christmas and it was, by far, the cheapest alternative at the time. I flew to Washington Dulles for a weekend in September and it was easily the cheapest of any realistic airport around here (Dayton, Columbus). Sorry, but I'm not driving two hours to Indy or Louisville (four hours round-trip) to save $80.

All these coupon queens seem to ignore the costs associated with driving to Columbus or Louisville, then parking their car there for a few days.  Nobody's going to drive you to Louisville's airport then drive up again to pick you up. 

 

Also, most of these complaints come from vacationers.  Again, the cost of a flight is just one item in the cost of a trip.  If you have budgeted $2,000 to go on a trip paying $100 more for a direct flight from our airport rather than driving to another city isn't a big deal. 

^Hmmm. I don't know how often you fly, but i know my brother saved over $200 from Indy to San Diego compared to Cincy to San Diego. He would  have NEVER searched Indianapolis if the prices were not so high. My cousin also flies  into Dayton from San Francisco. When he comes into town. So it's also expensive to fly into Cincinnati as well.

Although if you're taking your kids and it's $100/head difference then maybe it makes sense. 

All these coupon queens seem to ignore the costs associated with driving to Columbus or Louisville, then parking their car there for a few days.  Nobody's going to drive you to Louisville's airport then drive up again to pick you up. 

 

Also, most of these complaints come from vacationers.  Again, the cost of a flight is just one item in the cost of a trip.  If you have budgeted $2,000 to go on a trip paying $100 more for a direct flight from our airport rather than driving to another city isn't a big deal.

 

I saved $500 flying out of Dayton to Tampa FL on 2 tickets for xmas. Well worth the drive. Saved $400 the year before flying out of Louisville.

All these coupon queens seem to ignore the costs associated with driving to Columbus or Louisville, then parking their car there for a few days.  Nobody's going to drive you to Louisville's airport then drive up again to pick you up. 

 

Also, most of these complaints come from vacationers.  Again, the cost of a flight is just one item in the cost of a trip.  If you have budgeted $2,000 to go on a trip paying $100 more for a direct flight from our airport rather than driving to another city isn't a big deal. 

 

Exactly! At 55 cents per mile the drive to Louisville tacks on 101 extra miles or $55.55 each way. Add in 7 days of parking at $8 dollars each and you've got added costs of $167.10.  Even if you can find a friend or family member to drive you there/pick you up, you've given them a $222.20 burden in transportation costs. If you live within 15 miles of the nearest home airport and can get a friend or relative to drop you off/pick you up, that cost drops to under 33 bucks.

 

The price point has to be huge for me to even consider to going to another airport than the one 6 miles away. There's nothing worse than having an extra connection and then having to get in the car and drive another 100 miles after you've been traveling all day just to get home.

 

If you're a family/group of travelers then saving 100 bucks by flying elsewhere can add up, but for single or couple travelers, driving to an airport 100 miles away doesn't really save you in the end.

 

 

 

 

^ That's giving Delta a reason to not ever drop their prices. I rather spend my money on another airline.

If your final destination is Cincinnati from Africa or Europe, flying to NY or Atlanta then to Dayton definitely is more cost-effective than booking a flight to CVG from Newark, JFK or Hartsfield.  I agree that driving to Louisville or Columbus is too much for a Cincinnatian, but that's where James Cox comes in.

You guys are bringing up some pretty exotic scenarios.  When I have bought tickets on Travelocity, etc., to major cities like New York and Los Angeles, CVG was not significantly more expensive or was even exactly the same price as Dayton and other airports.  And again, if you're flying out to those places for a vacation, the vacation itself, even if you're staying at a friend's house and borrowing their car, is still going to cost more than the ticket itself.  There are easier ways to save $100 on a trip other than driving 2 hours out of your way to fly.  And if you're pinching things down to $100 you probably shouldn't be taking trips anyway.  The business complaints about CVG are another thing entirely.  But we don't hear about that so much as people complaining about having to drive to Dayton to fly their family to Disneyworld (which, incidentally I remember us doing when I was a kid on...Braniff).

 

I've flown out of Dayton or Columbus a few times but that's usually because I had a frequent flyer thing or a voucher that my dad or some other relative was getting rid of.  I used my dad's frequent flyer miles to fly to France for free a few years ago and I had to drive to Nashville, then fly Nashville>Atlanta>Frankfurt>Paris.  To save $1,200 vs. flying that non-stop from CVG to Paris it was worth it but that's way more than the kind of money we're talking with the typical CVG complaint. 

^yea, every time I fly from Philly to Cincinnati I always check the surrounding airports (Indy, Louisville, Dayton, C-Bus, Lex) just to see if there is some amazing deal to be had. Not once have I found Cincinnati's prices to be astoundingly more expensive. And often it is a cheaper flight, and always direct unlike Dayton which always has a layover in Detroit or Atl.

>family to world

 

Dammit I forgot about the D I S N E Y trick. 

CVG is not longer the most expensive airport in the US. When Northwest and Delta merged the business plan changed for CVG which is why you you are seeing fewer flights and lower fares. Delta's CVG operation is now not so dependent on driving a large volume of connection traffic with high fares but is based more on the local market. You might argue it's a "normalization" of a hub to it's market size. Surprised people are still driving to Indy, Louisville, etc.

I made three trips into CVG from New York before moving back to Cincinnati in 2010, a trip to London from CVG (via Boston) in 2011, and a trip back to CVG from Los Angeles this past summer. Of all these trips, CVG made the most sense economically as opposed to Dayton or other nearby airports. I may have saved a few bucks or avoided a transfer by using some other airport, but the savings wouldn't have been big enough to justify the travel time and inconvenience of using another airport. My biggest complaint is the relative lack of direct flights; nonstop flights from CVG to London simply don't exist, and the trip from LAX to CVG required a transfer in Memphis. Having lived in NYC and Chicago for most of my adult life, I've gotten spoiled with having easy access to major airports with direct flights to pretty much anywhere I would ever want to go.

CVG is not longer the most expensive airport in the US. When Northwest and Delta merged the business plan changed for CVG which is why you you are seeing fewer flights and lower fares. Delta's CVG operation is now not so dependent on driving a large volume of connection traffic with high fares but is based more on the local market. You might argue it's a "normalization" of a hub to it's market size. Surprised people are still driving to Indy, Louisville, etc.

Wrong.

 

Cincinnati, OH                        $526.25

 

Memphis, TN                            $519.97

 

Houston Bush, TX                  $504.58

 

Huntsville, AL                          $502.80

 

Washington Dulles                  $485.35

 

Newark-Liberty, NJ                $470.78

 

Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN    $454.39

 

Madison, WI                              $454.09

 

Cleveland, OH                            $449.90

 

Dallas-Fort Worth, TX            $449.42

This past fall, I flew in to Indy from Phoenix for $127 while it would have cost closer to $400 to go to CVG. Then I took MegaBus ($18 + $2 for the city bus from IND to downtown) from Indy to Cincy. While somewhat inconvenient, it wasn't too bad. I was on a budget, it was a last minute booking, and I saved around $250. If I was in a pinch in the future money-wise, I'd do it again.

Rather than a negative attitude, we need to encourage CVG to encourage other carriers to come in there with offerings. But to dream about a return to the glory days when Delta operated a major hub here - not likely. Cincinnati itself just does not produce enough locally generated airline traffic for this to happen.

 

Answer:  Feeder rail systems from Cincinnati/OH, Lexington and Louisville to CVG.

That is a pipe-dream if there ever was one. Why should either Lexington, Louisville, or anywhere else be interested in a rail feeder system to CVG? Are you also including Indianapolis and Columbus? Sometimes you rail advocates are just plain rediculous.

If people and the government were truly interested in lowering costs and doing things more efficiently, fewer major airports (no closer than ~300) with feeder rail connecting major cities nearby would be the way to go. For example, Columbus could be a major airport for surrounding cities of Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dayton, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Charleston, WV, Toledo, Akron/Canton, Wheeling, etc.

CVG is not longer the most expensive airport in the US. When Northwest and Delta merged the business plan changed for CVG which is why you you are seeing fewer flights and lower fares. Delta's CVG operation is now not so dependent on driving a large volume of connection traffic with high fares but is based more on the local market. You might argue it's a "normalization" of a hub to it's market size. Surprised people are still driving to Indy, Louisville, etc.

Wrong.

 

Cincinnati, OH                        $526.25

 

Memphis, TN                            $519.97

 

Houston Bush, TX                  $504.58

 

Huntsville, AL                          $502.80

 

Washington Dulles                  $485.35

 

Newark-Liberty, NJ                $470.78

 

Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN    $454.39

 

Madison, WI                              $454.09

 

Cleveland, OH                            $449.90

 

Dallas-Fort Worth, TX            $449.42

 

Wow, I knew that DL had lowered fares around 2010. I guess they can't sustain the hub without the high fares. Surprised, again.

 

 

Yeah it's pretty ridiculous. I just hope we don't lose our major companies because of it. I don't count Chiquita as major. Which had about 300 workers locally. Compared to P&G which has over 12,000. locally. The big companies use Lunken more often than we know.

I've flown out of DAY as many or more times than CVG. CMH several times. IND a couple times. Most of the times I've recently flown out of CVG, it was with airline miles, since it seems only distance is calculated in the mile price.

 

Delta has trained Cincinnatians to shop around, to the extent that even if they lower fares people will bargain hunt and drive. If the fares were never so out-of-control, it wouldn't have evolved into such a problem.

 

I think it will take a discount carrier moving in to get people used to flying out of CVG again, before the wound can heal.

 

People living in the northern burbs, which is much of the region's population, surely consider DAY to be their local airport.

Rather than a negative attitude, we need to encourage CVG to encourage other carriers to come in there with offerings. But to dream about a return to the glory days when Delta operated a major hub here - not likely. Cincinnati itself just does not produce enough locally generated airline traffic for this to happen.

 

Answer:  Feeder rail systems from Cincinnati/OH, Lexington and Louisville to CVG.

That is a pipe-dream if there ever was one. Why should either Lexington, Louisville, or anywhere else be interested in a rail feeder system to CVG? Are you also including Indianapolis and Columbus? Sometimes you rail advocates are just plain rediculous.

 

Troll much?  Go moderate SuburbanOhio, troll.  Or is it City-Data, either one, you get the drift.

 

 

Rather than a negative attitude, we need to encourage CVG to encourage other carriers to come in there with offerings. But to dream about a return to the glory days when Delta operated a major hub here - not likely. Cincinnati itself just does not produce enough locally generated airline traffic for this to happen.

 

Answer:  Feeder rail systems from Cincinnati/OH, Lexington and Louisville to CVG.

That is a pipe-dream if there ever was one. Why should either Lexington, Louisville, or anywhere else be interested in a rail feeder system to CVG? Are you also including Indianapolis and Columbus? Sometimes you rail advocates are just plain [ridiculous].

 

Think it through; I think it makes more sense than you give it credit for. 

 

CVG has a lot to offer.  It has a lot of room for lots of runways, plenty of room for expansion, and is centrally located between Cincinnati, Lexington, and Louisville. (Contrast it with the landlocked airport in Cleveland, where just expanding a runway is a major headache.)  But the Cincinnati area doesn't have the traveling population to support a lot of flights.

 

So if the problem is needing more people to fill flights, how do we get more people to CVG?  CVG is the "Cincinnati" airport, but it's pretty far from a lot of Cincinnati and its suburbs.  How does CVG get more passengers?  Make it easier to get to the airport, and encourage more airlines (competition) to fly there. 

 

Ultimately, cost and convenience are what are going to bring more passengers to CVG.  Adding more lanes to the highway won't make it more convenient for passengers from Lexington and Louisville, but a train might.  I wouldn't want to drive several hours to another airport for every flight, but if I can get on the train and read or text or watch a movie, and have a whiskey or beer while I ride to the airport, that would be easy.  Just look at all the comments above about people driving or not driving to other airports because of the cost. 

 

Why would Lexington and Louisville want to undercut their airports and divert passengers to CVG?  Each of the respective airports are pretty insignificant in any one airline's plans right now.  The people want choice, they want competition, they want lower prices -- but they can't get there on their own. 

 

I don't expect Lexington or Louisville to lift a finger to help get a train line started, however.  We could say that a train could increase traffic to their city, but if they're not paying for it I expect CVG or the port authority or whoever starts up a rail line would put the terminus in the suburbs and the other terminus at CVG by the terminal.  Build a station and a parking lot at the end, and you just park your car and take the train to the airport (you could call it an airport shuttle).  CVG could make money from the parking lot, the rail trip, and add flight passengers.  More passengers and maybe CVG gets an airline's interest in being a hub again, or it draws more airlines into CVG to serve all those added passengers.  Having a rail line might also increase traffic to Lexington and Louisville.  Competition again.

 

It could work.  Don't be so dismissive; it's not so clear that this is an idea not even worth considering. 

 

 

 

 

Why would Lexington and Louisville want to undercut their airports and divert passengers to CVG?  Each of the respective airports are pretty insignificant in any one airline's plans right now.  The people want choice, they want competition, they want lower prices -- but they can't get there on their own. 

 

Not to mention the rail lines could connect to those airports. Since airports are along highway rights-of-way and distant from populated areas, the relative cost of building rail lines between airports (along the highways or in the medians) is low, compared to laying track into cities.

$519 is the average airfare at CVG.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130124/BIZ/301240115/CVG-airfares-rank-second-highest-nation?nclick_check=1

$519 is the average airfare at CVG.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130124/BIZ/301240115/CVG-airfares-rank-second-highest-nation?nclick_check=1

 

Frankly I consider this the kind of meaningless article not worth publishing. Comparing average airfares, so what. Include some meaningful statistics such as range min. to max. and associated length of flight which equals fuel which equals money. We all know the demise of Comair has greatly affected both the number of flights and I suspect the average city size served by Delta out of CVG.

 

The consolidation into one terminal was a good move. It should help customer convenience. I suspect United is only interested in one thing, ferrying passengers through their Chicago hub. It would be interesting to compare the price of a ticket on United via Chicago to say LA to just a round trip ticket CVG to Chicago. I suspect the just CVG to Chicago ticket suffers as the majority of those are business trips and easily justified as necessities.

 

I remember years ago booking flights through CVG to other destinations and then just getting off at CVG and discarding the rest of the ticket as the result was cheaper. That is the way things work in the airline industry.

$519 is the average airfare at CVG.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130124/BIZ/301240115/CVG-airfares-rank-second-highest-nation?nclick_check=1

 

I remember years ago booking flights through CVG to other destinations and then just getting off at CVG and discarding the rest of the ticket as the result was cheaper. That is the way things work in the airline industry.

 

Yep.  That old trick.  Then, IIRC, 9/11 put a stop to those shenanigans.  I think they threatened incarcerating me one time.  Kidding.

>It would be interesting to compare the price of a ticket on United via Chicago to say LA to just a round trip ticket CVG to Chicago.

 

...but apparently not interesting enough to spend the 3 minutes searching these two scenarios on Travelocity. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just purchased a round trip ticket to Dallas from CVG next week for just over $1000 via Delta.  American was a bit more expensive.  It is business travel, of course, which I think may be what drives up the “average” prices at CVG.  Companies don’t even hesitate to drop that kind of money for a ticket.  If you plan vacations out early enough and shop around for ticket prices, I think CVG is absolutely comparable to other nearby airports, and at least evenly priced when you factor in the time/expense of driving an extra hour or so. CVG has sort of backed itself into a hole in which it gets mostly business travel, which then raises the average ticket prices and gives them even more bad press.

For the helluvit I just typed CVG > LGA and CVG > LAX for July 2013, typical vacation season.  CVG's only $20~ higher in each case. 

 

So I've just re-proven what has already been proven in this thread.  But people just really, really want to be mad at CVG, maybe so they can brag to their suburban neighbords about some "deal" they got by driving to Columbus.

 

 

CVG lands Frontier...

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/01/28/cvg-lands-frontier-airlines.html

^^^ This is excellent news. Hopefully the flight(s) depart to feed their connecting banks in Denver and allow for lots of west-coast connections.

 

Beware though, Delta can and will match fares and history may repeat itself. Also, both United and Delta serve CVG-DEN so there is plenty of competition.

 

Frontier currently offering $99 each way to/from Denver if you book by 2/2. Connections bump the price up.

Delta tends to take news like this very personally (as though Frontier stole their first-born child and ate it).  But it's absolutely great news for CVG.

 

CVG-DEN has been an under-served route, with only 2 daily non-stops (1 on each of United and Delta), invariably leaving at the exact same time. 

 

^^^ This is excellent news. Hopefully the flight(s) depart to feed their connecting banks in Denver and allow for lots of west-coast connections.

 

Beware though, Delta can and will match fares and history may repeat itself. Also, both United and Delta serve CVG-DEN so there is plenty of competition.

 

Frontier currently offering $99 each way to/from Denver if you book by 2/2. Connections bump the price up.

According to the CVG press release, the flight will initially leave CVG at 6:15 a.m., arriving in Denver at 7:15 and in time to connect to 19 other cities. The return flight leaves Denver at 6:59 p.m. and arrives in Cincinnati at 11:35 p.m.

 

It's reasonable to assume that a second flight would be added if this initial flight proves popular. And judging by the strong numbers for Frontier's two flights out of Dayton, I like the chances for another.

 

As a semi-frequent Frontier traveler, I can't sing the airline's praises loudly enough. The staff is among the most courteous in the business, the planes are new, comfortable and clean, they offer in-flight DirecTV and Denver is a great airport to connect through. And, as a former Denver-area resident and as evidenced by my screen name on here, I love the city.

 

Big win for CVG.

 

http://www.cvgairport.com/about/news/press_release.aspx?id=aae35637-ca09-4738-8463-8ba5045c8af1

One thing with those times: this route is likely with an airplane that would have been sitting at Denver anyway.  Frontier can now get some use out of it.  This is relatively "low risk" for Frontier from that point of view.

 

This DEN-CVG won't operate on Saturdays.  So when the airplane arrives Friday evening, it can be used for one of the turns down to Cancun/Punta Cuna that Frontier runs (on Saturdays only).

 

168 seats, though, is a heck of a lot to try to fill.  They were primarily sending the A319 to Dayton (138 seats) as opposed to the A320 they're planning for CVG.

 

 

According to the CVG press release, the flight will initially leave CVG at 6:15 a.m., arriving in Denver at 7:15 and in time to connect to 19 other cities. The return flight leaves Denver at 6:59 p.m. and arrives in Cincinnati at 11:35 p.m.

 

It's reasonable to assume that a second flight would be added if this initial flight proves popular. And judging by the strong numbers for Frontier's two flights out of Dayton, I like the chances for another.

 

As a semi-frequent Frontier traveler, I can't sing the airline's praises loudly enough. The staff is among the most courteous in the business, the planes are new, comfortable and clean, they offer in-flight DirecTV and Denver is a great airport to connect through. And, as a former Denver-area resident and as evidenced by my screen name on here, I love the city.

 

Big win for CVG.

 

http://www.cvgairport.com/about/news/press_release.aspx?id=aae35637-ca09-4738-8463-8ba5045c8af1

But didn't I just read Frontier is pulling out of Dayton because they don't want to compete head to head with Southwest? Sounds to me like the same old games in the airline industry. Support us and we will forget you.

But didn't I just read Frontier is pulling out of Dayton because they don't want to compete head to head with Southwest? Sounds to me like the same old games in the airline industry. Support us and we will forget you.

 

But let's be honest, CVG is where Frontier wants to be anyways. They have a far more robust business community to tap into and the population is much more dense in the main catchment area for CVG versus DAY. Let's not forget that they will be the only LCC at CVG so there's less fare pressure to begin with.

But didn't I just read Frontier is pulling out of Dayton because they don't want to compete head to head with Southwest? Sounds to me like the same old games in the airline industry. Support us and we will forget you.

 

But let's be honest, CVG is where Frontier wants to be anyways. They have a far more robust business community to tap into and the population is much more dense in the main catchment area for CVG versus DAY. Let's not forget that they will be the only LCC at CVG so there's less fare pressure to begin with.

 

They clearly didn't until now, since Dayton just got Southwest to Denver and there is now an untapped market without Southwest to compete with.  Frontier isn't about 'robust business community'...it's a low-fare airliner.

Frontier just pulled out of Akron-Canton and started flights at CLE - similar to CVG/DAY.

Frontier isn't about 'robust business community'...it's a low-fare airliner.

 

That couldn't be further from the truth.

Well I'd love to know "the truth" as I don't see Allegiant Air looking for business in Denver over Colorado Springs.  The 'truth' is that Southwest Airlines flights to Denver 'won' at Dayton and Frontier is looking for markets that Southwest Airlines hasn't infiltrated yet.  It makes business-sense.  Frontier isn't exactly a business-airline (they don't even have first class!) unless you think Megabus is looking for a 'robust business community' in Toledo.

ColDayMan, Allegiant and Frontier have very different business models. You're absolutely right, Allegiant is primarily a leisure-only airline. Frontier is not. Allegiant flies to small, regional airports where they are often the only scheduled/public airline (take YNG, for example - quite typical of Allegiant). Even Dayton would be too big an airport for them as there's already plenty of legacy and LCC compeition there. They do not fly every day or even 6 days a week, but typically only 2-3 days/week, and only operate to key leisure destinations. Who's really going to St. Pete in FL on business anyways?

 

Frontier is essentially a smaller Southwest or jetBlue in how they operate.  They fly to key business AND leisure destinations, and more importantly offer the opportunity to connect beyond Denver. I believe with this schedule at CVG some of the major connections will include LAX, SFO, LAS, PHX, SEA, etc.  The nature of this schedule (leaving early in the morning, returning late at night) is exactly the kind of schedule companies like as it allows maxmium working time on the ground for their employees. You can be sure companies in Cincinnati like Kroger, Fidelity, Corporex, Western Union (relationship w/ Kroger & 5/3) and dozens of others that do business in and around Denver (and vice versa in Cincinnati) will be looking at using this flight. Southwest, jetBlue and Frontier are all quite popular amongst business travellers.

 

Not having first class on Frontier absolutely does not mean they are not business friendly. Most corporate travel policies do not allow employees to buy a first class ticket anymore. When you fly on Delta or United, airlines with first class cabins on most of their flights, the business people you see up there typically are on a frequent flyer elite upgrade. These cabins are not a significant source of premium revenue for airlines and legacy airlines have started using the space to reward the loyalty of their frequent flyers. Some of these folks up front may have paid less for their ticket than you did!

The point was that low-cost carriers typically look for markets with a devoid in low-cost options to set up shop.  They don't look for business opportunities (Allegiant was just an example), just people who want to fly out for cheap versus the bigger airlines. You're right, SW, jetBlue, and Frontier are popular with business travelers (businesses like cheap flights too) but they aren't geared towards business travelers.  The Delta's and United's ARE geared for business, thus they offer more amenities such as skyclubs, business & first class, etc. That's my only point.

I believe with this schedule at CVG some of the major connections will include LAX, SFO, LAS, PHX, SEA, etc. The nature of this schedule (leaving early in the morning, returning late at night) is exactly the kind of schedule companies like as it allows maxmium working time on the ground for their employees. You can be sure companies in Cincinnati like Kroger, Fidelity, Corporex, Western Union (relationship w/ Kroger & 5/3) and dozens of others that do business in and around Denver (and vice versa in Cincinnati) will be looking at using this flight. Southwest, jetBlue and Frontier are all quite popular amongst business travellers.

 

 

 

Spot on.  I work for a smaller Cincinnati-based company, and have to travel out to the West Coast 4-6 times annually for business.  Getting to a city like SFO  before 10:30 AM is border-line impossible right now --- I have to fly North or South to a connecting city (DTW, ORD, ATL) before traveling west, and I lose time doing that.  So invariably I'm flying out to SFO the night before.

 

DEN is a PERFECT connection spot for SFO and SJC, and near perfect for LAX, LAS and PHX (not so much for SEA).  This flight arrives at 7:15 AM MT and Frontier has a big bank of westward-heading flights at 8 AM.  Someone could leave CVG at 6 AM and still arrive in SFO or LAX before 10 AM PT.

 

This flight will definitely draw a lot of interest from west-bound business travelers.

Just any FYI, but I was wondering around in the development and planning offices the other night and looked at a bunch of blue prints for the airports future and it was very cool looking.  They are doing away with terminals 1 and 2, expanding terminal 3, moving all the car rental places out near the northside of the new runway (near KY 20), building a new hotel either connected to terminal 3 or just south of KY 236(donaldson).  Oh yeah.. they have a light rail line running east to west by 275 and coming into the airport. 

I'll see if I can get some pictures of it or maybe even a copy to share.

 

They can't destroy Terminal 1 & 2 quick enough.  They look like third world Dayton terminals and it would be nice to connect Concourse C with A & B via underground tram.  Any plans...

 

Demo Terminals 1 & 2 definitely but at the same time Concourse C. It was just a cheap ass construction to serve Comair with no jetways, and also no underground baggage handling. Level the sucker, it was an atrocity from the beginning.

 

The only thing I hope is they do something to salvage the ceramic murials moved from Union Terminal when they demo Terminals 1 & 2. It would be a shame to lose them as they are part of Cincinnati history. I believe a few are in the lower level areas at the front of the terminals where the baggage claim is located.

 

BTW - where there any dates on those plans? I doubt it as we are talking WAY into the future. The things which should be high on the agenda are the demolition of Terminals 1 & 2 and Concourse C just to eliminate any ongoing maintenance expense.

I understand Delta has a lease on Concourse C until 2025. Obviously they did not anticipate what happened to the hub concept. I would expect Delta to be happy to give up their lease for the next 12 years, maybe even be willing to kick in a few shekels for the demo cost to get rid of the lease. If the airport is stuck with a remaining debt on the building, that is what happens when you overextend.

I thought I had read that admin offices are housed in some of the old terminals. ???  Either way, I like the demo idea.  They are like warts.  I can't imagine any alternate universe where the murals don't survive.  They were moved once already.

Well I'd love to know "the truth" as I don't see Allegiant Air looking for business in Denver over Colorado Springs.  The 'truth' is that Southwest Airlines flights to Denver 'won' at Dayton and Frontier is looking for markets that Southwest Airlines hasn't infiltrated yet.  It makes business-sense.  Frontier isn't exactly a business-airline (they don't even have first class!) unless you think Megabus is looking for a 'robust business community' in Toledo.

 

And just as important, airlines like SWA, Frontier and Air Tran don't interline with other lines.  If they cancel a flight, you can only get re-booked on their airline.  thats a killer for the business traveller.