Five daily flights to Chicago and three to Baltimore.

 

Chicago is their biggest hub, you can fly anywhere in the country from there (here for me).  Lots of their planes also just land, let people off, let people on then fly to another destination too.

 

And BWI is the second largest hub, makes sense that they would fly to those two airports. Most destinations will be a one transfer flight from CVG on Southwest.

Yeah, there's plenty of room in Concourse A for these additional flights. CVG won't need to consider any more terminal construction projects unless there is a major expansion in the future.

All of the current gates in A concourse are spoken for. However, CVG is buying two additional jet bridges for either A1/A2 or A3/A5. These jet bridges are supposed to be operational by early June, or just in time for SouthWest.

Also, CVG has been in talks with Delta to sublease gates out of B concourse if necessary.

 

Did they ever have jetways for those gates? I thought back when it was a major hub there were jetways there, correct?

Seems like Cranley might know something or his is a complete overreaction to 8 daily flights to two destinations.  At least initially this is good, and we will have to see the full plan (if there is one). 

 

Interestingly, discount airlines now account for almost a quarter of local traffic with the biggest jump in growth occurring in 2016.  Somewhat counterintuitively all of the traditional carriers (including Delta with growth above 7%, United at 10%, and American at 6%) were up YOY through November as well.  It will be interesting to see the impact or if there are more changes in store.

 

Did they ever have jetways for those gates? I thought back when it was a major hub there were jetways there, correct?

 

Yes, but they were removed and scrapped during the remodel years ago.  Now all the jet bridges in A belong to the airport.

Cranley acting all "we are in this together".  Laughable.

While this certainly helps leisure travelers, I doubt most business interests care. Most business people I know can't stand a leisure traveler slowing up the boarding and deboarding process.  Not to mention screaming kids....

^ While a discount airline, Southwest does have a decent amount of business travelers (more than you would expect). This may not be the case for Allegiant or Frontier but given Southwest's history and reliability, they can compete for some business travel.

^ While a discount airline, Southwest does have a decent amount of business travelers (more than you would expect). This may not be the case for Allegiant or Frontier but given Southwest's history and reliability, they can compete for some business travel.

 

Certainly. I see plenty of the occasional business travelers doing so, as they tend to be more price conscious.  The hardcore frequent biz traveler with status at Delta will remain at Delta. 

I doubt Cranley had anything to do with this.  His appearance at the announcement came off as an after thought as he wasn't even mentioned or introduced until the very end.  His head-bobbing during the entire thing was just weird.  He repeated himself in a long-winded, hyperbolic speech. Just opportunism for Cranley I think people know full well on this board that he doesn't give a rats a** for anything/anyone other than himself and his own vanity.

And his sickening omission of the streetcar as listed accomplishments - all of them downtown focused, mind you...none of them "in the neighborhoods". 

Not sure if anyone saw because of the SW announcement but CVG is getting American mainline service again. Starting April 4th American will offer service to DFW on MD-80 aircraft two daily mainline flights Morning and afternoon flight.

At what point can one say that CVG has recovered or is recovering from the Delta void?  I think we have to give credit to the team over there for what they've been able to accomplish.

With the facilities they have they are unlikely to reclaim the frequency of flights and gates they had prior to Delta's consolidation in the late 2000's. Remember then they had 3 terminals and Terminal 3 had 3 concourses compared to today's one terminal with 2 concourses.

 

However I think the proper measure is whether the airport has "right-sized" from the consolidation into one terminal which I think it has. The next step after constructing the rental car facility will be how to expand Concourse A and what to do with Concourse B.

At what point can one say that CVG has recovered or is recovering from the Delta void?  I think we have to give credit to the team over there for what they've been able to accomplish.

 

There are like half as many flights in and out of the airport now as in 2005, right when the third north-south runway was completed. 

With the facilities they have they are unlikely to reclaim the frequency of flights and gates they had prior to Delta's consolidation in the late 2000's. Remember then they had 3 terminals and Terminal 3 had 3 concourses compared to today's one terminal with 2 concourses.

 

However I think the proper measure is whether the airport has "right-sized" from the consolidation into one terminal which I think it has. The next step after constructing the rental car facility will be how to expand Concourse A and what to do with Concourse B.

I thought they have already proposed their long term plan?

 

Build a new large concourse closeby the terminal that would eliminate the need for the people mover. Raze current concourse A and Concourse B.

My measure isn't how many flights, but rather how many destinations.  I don't care how many flights to Chicago, Denver, and Minneapolis there are beyond a daily. We currently can't really get anywhere on the west coast without a layover, which makes traveling there problematic, especially for business.  And those are the essential flights. You can drive to Chicago, Detroit, and even Minneapolis or New York in a pinch. You can't really reach the west coast in the same way.

if there are a lot of people trying to connect out of Chicago or Dallas from Cincinnati, it will then show the airline there is demand for the cross country direct flight to the West Coast. That is what it will take.

With the facilities they have they are unlikely to reclaim the frequency of flights and gates they had prior to Delta's consolidation in the late 2000's. Remember then they had 3 terminals and Terminal 3 had 3 concourses compared to today's one terminal with 2 concourses.

 

However I think the proper measure is whether the airport has "right-sized" from the consolidation into one terminal which I think it has. The next step after constructing the rental car facility will be how to expand Concourse A and what to do with Concourse B.

I thought they have already proposed their long term plan?

 

Build a new large concourse closeby the terminal that would eliminate the need for the people mover. Raze current concourse A and Concourse B.

Yeah that's what I'm talking about. I hadn't heard they made a decision to raze both concourses and build a new terminal though.

^Is that part of or separate from the plan to build rental car facilities on-site like at PDX, eliminating the need for shuttles. That will be a huge time saver and headache eliminator for visitors to the region, by the way.

The demolition of Terminals 1 & 2 and construction of a new rental car facility is ongoing now.  The eventual decommissioning of Concourse B and the people mover is a much longer term plan, I think they had it in their 30 year plan.

At what point can one say that CVG has recovered or is recovering from the Delta void?  I think we have to give credit to the team over there for what they've been able to accomplish.

 

The measure to use is what is called O&D passengers (origin and destination) as it represents local residents and visitors choosing CVG over other regional competition.  So, even if the airport peaked in 2005 the fares were high and so many people were simply making connections on Delta the total passenger stats I don't think are useful measurement of recovery. I'm looking for the stats as they are tracked but I do fly weekly and my anecdotal evidence just by the number of cars in long term lots and the business of the baggage claim to me suggest O&D passengers are quite possibly hitting records. 

 

DAY is going to continue to suffer.  With Southwest out of there I expect fares to go up, demand to drop, and the airlines to downguage accordingly.  The AirTran flights back in the day were the secret to the lower fares up there as Delta fare matched them to protect the Atlanta hub, fares at DAY have been climbing ever since those flights were dropped post SW/AT merger. DAY could consolidate onto one concourse now with the departure of Southwest.

Why do people care so much about the price of flights?  They're just one part of the price of a trip.  If you really want to save money, don't go on the damn trip. 

Why do people care so much about the price of flights?  They're just one part of the price of a trip.  If you really want to save money, don't go on the damn trip.

 

?

Why do people care so much about the price of flights?  They're just one part of the price of a trip.  If you really want to save money, don't go on the damn trip. 

 

Because CVGs higher average fare relative to other nearby airports meant it lost local traffic, and as a result local demand for air service looked artificially low. Some people went to surrounding airports, some people didn't take the trips.  This applies to leisure and business travel. Fares TO CVG are also high which limits people willing to visit as well.  CVG was a connection operation for Delta that did not serve the community very well overall and to me, that is why O/D is the ultimate measure of recovery.

Why do people care so much about the price of flights?  They're just one part of the price of a trip.  If you really want to save money, don't go on the damn trip.

 

Many times it's not about a vacation trip, but more so when air travel is the only option. The past few times I've flown out of CVG it's been for funerals where I needed to arrive quickly and when driving would've been tough on time.

 

For example: went to a wedding in NYC/Jersey with plenty of advance notice a few years back. Ended up driving, saw a bunch of stuff along the way and back. Preferred all that to flying. A few months later had to visit the same place for a funeral. Thankfully, Fronteir was able to go there quickly and relatively cheap. The comparison to Delta (with service directly into NYC) was way more than Fronteir into a small NJ field. Had there been no low cost carrier, I probably would've had to suck it up for Delta because I needed to be there for the funeral and then back. Wasn't really an option of not taking that trip

Why do people care so much about the price of flights?  They're just one part of the price of a trip.  If you really want to save money, don't go on the damn trip. 

 

OMG, yeah you're so right Jake! Who cares if you can go on a trip and save 25% by finding a cheaper flight. Just stay home instead! You'll save 100% of the cost of the trip and go through life seeing literally nothing other than the condition you were born into. Such good insight!

 

In related news, I'm happy about Southwest coming to CVG. The more options from Laguardia the better since tickets from NYC to Cincy have always been uncomfortably high.

Why do people care so much about the price of flights?  They're just one part of the price of a trip.  If you really want to save money, don't go on the damn trip. 

 

Because CVGs higher average fare relative to other nearby airports meant it lost local traffic, and as a result local demand for air service looked artificially low. Some people went to surrounding airports, some people didn't take the trips.  This applies to leisure and business travel. Fares TO CVG are also high which limits people willing to visit as well.  CVG was a connection operation for Delta that did not serve the community very well overall and to me, that is why O/D is the ultimate measure of recovery.

 

I've had many instances where family from far away chose not to come to town because they couldn't afford the flights in during the peak fare years at CVG.  That's been lessening as of late.

My terminal reconfiguration idea:

 

I base this on an assumption that Delta will need about 5-6 gates to fly to hubs and maybe a few key markets after its lease on B expires in 2020. 

 

-Concourse B is decommissioned and probably torn down.  As nice as it is, it is unlikely to ever be close to fully utilized again and is poorly located. 

-A DEN like Skyway is built from the current backside of the security checkpoint to A with moving walkways, allowing passengers to get to gates quickly while allowing planes to pass underneath (a lower cost option - extend the "stub" on the N. side of A to reach the security checkpoint- it would block the existing taxiway)

-The tunnel to concourse A is repurposed to be used for international arrivals with customs/immigration and a return to the terminal.  This eliminates the ridiculous situation we have today where local arrivals have to reclear security and recheck bags to take the tunnel to get back in. 

- Concourse A is expanded to the west to accommodate SW, Delta's spoke/focus city operation, plus a few additional gates for growth with a ready plan to keep expanding if needed. 

Why do people care so much about the price of flights?  They're just one part of the price of a trip.  If you really want to save money, don't go on the damn trip. 

 

Gosh, I don't know. Maybe because if I can save several hundred dollars on a flight, I can use that money to instead enjoy the local food of my destination, or perhaps take part in an activity that otherwise would have been stretching the travel budget. But, like I said, I don't know. I could be wrong.

The CVG Master Plan is available at the link below if you want to see the future plans.

 

http://www.cvgairport.com/about/beyond/plan

My terminal reconfiguration idea:

 

I base this on an assumption that Delta will need about 5-6 gates to fly to hubs and maybe a few key markets after its lease on B expires in 2020. 

 

-Concourse B is decommissioned and probably torn down.  As nice as it is, it is unlikely to ever be close to fully utilized again and is poorly located. 

-A DEN like Skyway is built from the current backside of the security checkpoint to A with moving walkways, allowing passengers to get to gates quickly while allowing planes to pass underneath (a lower cost option - extend the "stub" on the N. side of A to reach the security checkpoint- it would block the existing taxiway)

-The tunnel to concourse A is repurposed to be used for international arrivals with customs/immigration and a return to the terminal.  This eliminates the ridiculous situation we have today where local arrivals have to reclear security and recheck bags to take the tunnel to get back in. 

- Concourse A is expanded to the west to accommodate SW, Delta's spoke/focus city operation, plus a few additional gates for growth with a ready plan to keep expanding if needed.

 

Alot of folks dont realize is the security building addition on the back of The Main terminal is intended/designed/built to have a major skywalk that would connect to a rebuilt concourse A. Next time anyone goes through security and down the escalator the first drop in escalators would drop you at the proposed skywalk level, where the existing condition has passengers going down two levels to enter into the tunnels. You can see where there is a moth ball level in the addition because it was designed for the skywalk proposal sequence.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/southwests-arrival-means-concourse-a-at-cvg-will-get-an-upgrade-but-its-long-term-fate-remains-up-in-the-air

 

This is good news. CVG is basically reopening the last four gates that were unused in Concourse A. If you ever travel in Concourse A its Gates 1 & 2 which are directly to the left when you get off the escalators and Gates 3 & 5 which are the two gates across from Starbucks and the Gift Shop beyond where the restrooms are located in the area. They put temporary walls up in both locations to prevent remodeling at the time. Airport needs these gates for Southwest, American Mainline, and additional traffic from Frontier and Allegiant especially during summer travel season.

Press conference scheduled for tomorrow at 10:30 for the announcement of 3 new routes from CVG.  Highly likely to be Frontier.

Where they headed now?  Pensacola?  Hilton Head?  KEY WEST???

Where they headed now?  Pensacola?  Hilton Head?  KEY WEST???

 

Strong possibility of none of the above.

I figured it was somewhere in Florida/South Carolina/SE Georgia/Sunbelt of Love.

Where they headed now?  Pensacola?  Hilton Head?  KEY WEST???

 

I have a feeling they are going after additional west coast locations. Cities where the airport board is willing to throw some cash toward them for opening a route that is requested by the region. I am thinking Seattle and Portland. Go toe to toe with Delta on the Seattle route (which is only seasonal) and provide service to Portland Oregon.

Now THAT would be nice!

Where they headed now?  Pensacola?  Hilton Head?  KEY WEST???

 

I have a feeling they are going after additional west coast locations. Cities where the airport board is willing to throw some cash toward them for opening a route that is requested by the region. I am thinking Seattle and Portland. Go toe to toe with Delta on the Seattle route (which is only seasonal) and provide service to Portland Oregon.

 

I think this is closer to the plan. It would make more sense with the Cleveland/Cincy co-announcements. We'll see, I could be very wrong.

According to airliners.net, CVG will announce LGA, SAN and MSP

Because we need another flight to MSP.

CVG getting three new direct flights

Jan 31, 2017, 8:16am EST

Chris Wetterich

Staff reporter and columnist

Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport is getting three new direct flights, including to one city where it does not have nonstop service today, the Business Courier has learned.

 

Frontier Airlines will announce service from CVG to New York’s LaGuardia International Airport, San Diego and Minneapolis. The ultra-low-cost carrier will offer introductory fares as low as $29 each way on these routes for flights between April 21 and June 6 on its website. Flights must be bought by 11:59 p.m. on Feb. 7.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/01/31/cvg-getting-three-new-direct-flights.html

Several reporters are now tweeting that CVG will become Amazon's worldwide cargo hub. They will be investing $1.4 billion and adding 2,700 new jobs, but getting $40 million in incentives from Kentucky. I guess Amazon has decided to move their operations to CVG rather than continue to push for a Wilmington expansion. More details coming soon...

Several reporters are now tweeting that CVG will become Amazon's worldwide cargo hub. They will be investing $1.4 billion and adding 2,700 new jobs, but getting $40 million in incentives from Kentucky. I guess Amazon has decided to move their operations to CVG rather than continue to push for a Wilmington expansion. More details coming soon...

 

So they'd share with DHL?  I assume that Amazon would do much more shipping during the day.  DHL, like Wendy's, rules the night. 

Amazon to create $1.4B air hub at CVG

 

The new service will be called Amazon Prime Air and Amazon will lease two parcels totaling 900 acres to house it. The land will be leased a fair market value for 50-plus years.

 

"They would like to get a shovel in the ground as soon as possible," McGraw said.

This is a great win for CVG and the region!  It was probably a perfect match, CVG has an extremely large and underused runway system for an airport its size, and Amazon can come in and use those idle resources.  CVG gets the benefit of a lot of flights (and their fees) without having to put in the infrastructure for travelers.

Several reporters are now tweeting that CVG will become Amazon's worldwide cargo hub. They will be investing $1.4 billion and adding 2,700 new jobs, but getting $40 million in incentives from Kentucky. I guess Amazon has decided to move their operations to CVG rather than continue to push for a Wilmington expansion. More details coming soon...

 

So they'd share with DHL?  I assume that Amazon would do much more shipping during the day.  DHL, like Wendy's, rules the night. 

 

Amazon will actually be using DHL's facilities until they can build their own. It looks like Amazon will basically be taking over most of the remaining runway-adjacent space with their new buildings:

 

^My former roommate who worked at DHL said that Amazon was always their biggest customer. It's no secret that Amazon is establishing its own delivery network to skirt UPS, FedEx, and DHL.  Whenever it is completely detatched from those carriers it's pretty obvious that Amazon will try to start carrying non-Amazon cargo. 

 

If that happens and Amazon eventually drives everyone else out of business, it's obviously a good thing that we're getting this hub right now, but it's not an overall gain for the country. 

 

 

 

^ Cincinnati First Jake!!! Cincinnati First

 

America Second.

When they built the oversized new Aero Parkway along the south side of the airport a few years ago I thought it was just going to create more retail sprawl like Houston Rd and I was very skeptical if any of that work was necessary or just a bypass for people living in Burlington/Florence. Now that I see the 440 acre 'lot c' on that map with all the frontage along Aero Parkway I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised and impressed. This is definitely a huge win for NKY, especially after all the bad news we've gotten lately with Toyota moving to Texas and the IRS removing a whole bunch of jobs.

Long-term I'm not sure how the A/B + C areas could work without digging a tunnel between them.  They wouldn't want trucks carrying international freight back and forth across the runways. 

 

Also this development greatly complicates building a light rail line to the airport because there would need to be one station at the passenger terminal and then a $100 million tunnel to serve the huge employment center in "C".