Delta is starting to match the Frontier fares of $198 R/T through the summer....who called that one haha.

Delta is starting to match the Frontier fares of $198 R/T through the summer....who called that one haha.

 

Where did you see this? It still shows as $440 round trip for me.  I was really considering flying out to Denver for the Reds vs Rockies, and because I've never been there, and $200 round trip each makes it about the cheapest place to fly to from Cincy.  If Delta is matching the price though, I may just fly with them because of my frequent flyer miles.

Delta is starting to match the Frontier fares of $198 R/T through the summer....who called that one haha.

 

Where did you see this? It still shows as $440 round trip for me.  I was really considering flying out to Denver for the Reds vs Rockies, and because I've never been there, and $200 round trip each makes it about the cheapest place to fly to from Cincy.  If Delta is matching the price though, I may just fly with them because of my frequent flyer miles.

 

"because of my frequent flyer miles"

 

THE reason every "low cost carrier" is doomed at CVG.  We the flying public are our own worst enemy.  I personally hate Delta enough for what they have done to CVG that if I have options, I WONT use them. 

Delta is starting to match the Frontier fares of $198 R/T through the summer....who called that one haha.

 

Where did you see this? It still shows as $440 round trip for me.  I was really considering flying out to Denver for the Reds vs Rockies, and because I've never been there, and $200 round trip each makes it about the cheapest place to fly to from Cincy.  If Delta is matching the price though, I may just fly with them because of my frequent flyer miles.

 

"because of my frequent flyer miles"

 

THE reason every "low cost carrier" is doomed at CVG.  We the flying public are our own worst enemy.  I personally hate Delta enough for what they have done to CVG that if I have options, I WONT use them. 

 

I'll admit I'm on the fence between convenience and principal... I'll probably still give Frontier a try, though.

Delta is starting to match the Frontier fares of $198 R/T through the summer....who called that one haha.

 

  If Delta is matching the price though, I may just fly with them because of my frequent flyer miles.

 

This is the typical Cincinnati mentality of which allows Delta to continue to charge the nations highest fares.  Do us all a favor and support new low-cost airlines.  Please!

Yeah they matched them.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/comments/article/20130129/BIZ01/130129020/Sizing-up-CVG-s-new-low-cost-carrier

 

 

Can the KY legislature make a bill where airlines can only use the mean average fare across their entire network? Instead of setting the fares as high as possible?

Also seeing some fare drops to west-coast cities like LAX and SFO that are available non-stop on Delta (versus 1-stop on Frontier) to the low $300's for the summer. They are going to defend their turf again and use their favorable schedule, SkyMiles and nonstops to put up some tough compeition for F9.

 

People better make some sacrifices if they want this service to stick around.

Delta is starting to match the Frontier fares of $198 R/T through the summer....who called that one haha.

 

Where did you see this? It still shows as $440 round trip for me.  I was really considering flying out to Denver for the Reds vs Rockies, and because I've never been there, and $200 round trip each makes it about the cheapest place to fly to from Cincy.  If Delta is matching the price though, I may just fly with them because of my frequent flyer miles.

 

And thus ... the vicious cycle continues. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Enjoy your six months at CVG, Frontier. After they're gone, we can get back to complaining about Delta's $450 flights to Denver and why we don't have a low-cost carrier here. :x

Delta is starting to match the Frontier fares of $198 R/T through the summer....who called that one haha.

 

Where did you see this? It still shows as $440 round trip for me.  I was really considering flying out to Denver for the Reds vs Rockies, and because I've never been there, and $200 round trip each makes it about the cheapest place to fly to from Cincy.  If Delta is matching the price though, I may just fly with them because of my frequent flyer miles.

 

And thus ... the vicious cycle continues. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

Enjoy your six months at CVG, Frontier. After they're gone, we can get back to complaining about Delta's $450 flights to Denver and why we don't have a low-cost carrier here. :x

 

Of course Delta matched the fare.  But neither airline will you how many seats are available at that fare.  More importantly, Frontier will start charging higher fares once the intitial entry in the CVG market is complete.  Frontier didn't enter the CVG market to lower airfares, they came because there was demand at a high enough fare to justify service.  By way of example, look at southwest as CLE.  their fares are not appreciably lower than UAL and sometimes they are even higher. 

Why would someone use skymiles on a discounted flight and not on the more expensive flights?

^I think the idea is people deciding to go with Delta assuming the fares are the same, because you get SkyMiles out of it (proably 2000 or so for a round trip to Denver). 

 

Of course Delta matched the fare.  But neither airline will let you know how many seats are available at that fare.

 

There are services out there (generally cost ~$10/month) which will give visibility into how many seats are still available on flights at a given fare.  Delta's selling these $199 round-trips to DEN as a T fare.

 

Delta's response has been predictable --- the published L/U/T fares to cities like LAX, SFO, PHX, and SAN have all been lowered by 10-25%.  It's up to us Cincinnati-based folk not to fall into Delta's trap here.

Also seeing some fare drops to west-coast cities like LAX and SFO that are available non-stop on Delta (versus 1-stop on Frontier) to the low $300's for the summer. They are going to defend their turf again and use their favorable schedule, SkyMiles and nonstops to put up some tough compeition for F9.

 

People better make some sacrifices if they want this service to stick around.

 

The City itself better get better if it wants CVG to evolve into a relatively balanced organizational structure.  The Board of Directors would rather take handouts than risk losing their financially lucrative job by committing to something meaningful, meaningful meaning long-term.  500,000+ city, 3,000,000 MSA, 4,000,000 CSA stabilizes CVG more than any "action" I expect to see in the next 15 years.

 

Also seeing some fare drops to west-coast cities like LAX and SFO that are available non-stop on Delta (versus 1-stop on Frontier) to the low $300's for the summer. They are going to defend their turf again and use their favorable schedule, SkyMiles and nonstops to put up some tough compeition for F9.

 

People better make some sacrifices if they want this service to stick around.

 

The City itself better get better if it wants CVG to evolve into a relatively balanced organizational structure.  The Board of Directors would rather take handouts than risk losing their financially lucrative job by committing to something meaningful, meaningful meaning long-term.  500,000+ city, 3,000,000 MSA, 4,000,000 CSA stabilizes CVG more than any "action" I expect to see in the next 15 years.

 

I tend to agree much of the problem with CVG is connected to Cincinnati. You mention a 500,000+ city. How long do you think that is going to take to happen? Quit complaining about CVG as they are only reacting to both the airline industry and what is happening in Cincinnati, neither one of which are exactly upstring.

Also seeing some fare drops to west-coast cities like LAX and SFO that are available non-stop on Delta (versus 1-stop on Frontier) to the low $300's for the summer. They are going to defend their turf again and use their favorable schedule, SkyMiles and nonstops to put up some tough compeition for F9.

 

People better make some sacrifices if they want this service to stick around.

 

The City itself better get better if it wants CVG to evolve into a relatively balanced organizational structure.  The Board of Directors would rather take handouts than risk losing their financially lucrative job by committing to something meaningful, meaningful meaning long-term.  500,000+ city, 3,000,000 MSA, 4,000,000 CSA stabilizes CVG more than any "action" I expect to see in the next 15 years.

 

I tend to agree much of the problem with CVG is connected to Cincinnati. You mention a 500,000+ city. How long do you think that is going to take to happen? Quit complaining about CVG as they are only reacting to both the airline industry and what is happening in Cincinnati, neither one of which are exactly upstring.

 

If subsequent transit lines are completed almost sequentially after the opening of the father line, i.e. Oasis, Uptown Connector, I-75 LRT, Central Parkway subway, Wasson, then Cincinnati could eclipse 500,000 in 2027.  There's also the possibility Cincinnati annexes before then.

 

I complain about CVG because I have impetus to.  They knew the hub explosion in the 2000s was fifteen minutes of fame and never lifted a finger to promote passenger confidence outside of Delta providing over 300 daily flights.  CVG has to be the worst of all its similarly-sized brethren. 

 

There isn't a major airport within 300 miles that's worse.  Geography plays a big part in airport potency, but no one was complaining about Cincinnati's geography when half the West Coast was being welcomed to Kentucky on all their cross-country and Old World destinations.

 

 

Also seeing some fare drops to west-coast cities like LAX and SFO that are available non-stop on Delta (versus 1-stop on Frontier) to the low $300's for the summer. They are going to defend their turf again and use their favorable schedule, SkyMiles and nonstops to put up some tough compeition for F9.

 

People better make some sacrifices if they want this service to stick around.

 

The City itself better get better if it wants CVG to evolve into a relatively balanced organizational structure.  The Board of Directors would rather take handouts than risk losing their financially lucrative job by committing to something meaningful, meaningful meaning long-term.  500,000+ city, 3,000,000 MSA, 4,000,000 CSA stabilizes CVG more than any "action" I expect to see in the next 15 years.

 

I tend to agree much of the problem with CVG is connected to Cincinnati. You mention a 500,000+ city. How long do you think that is going to take to happen? Quit complaining about CVG as they are only reacting to both the airline industry and what is happening in Cincinnati, neither one of which are exactly upstring.

 

If subsequent transit lines are completed almost sequentially after the opening of the father line, i.e. Oasis, Uptown Connector, I-75 LRT, Central Parkway subway, Wasson, then Cincinnati could eclipse 500,000 in 2027.  There's also the possibility Cincinnati annexes before then.

 

I complain about CVG because I have impetus to.  They knew the hub explosion in the 2000s was fifteen minutes of fame and never lifted a finger to promote passenger confidence outside of Delta providing over 300 daily flights.  CVG has to be the worst of all its similarly-sized brethren. 

 

There isn't a major airport within 300 miles that's worse.  Geography plays a big part in airport potency, but no one was complaining about Cincinnati's geography when half the West Coast was being welcomed to Kentucky on all their cross-country and Old World destinations.

 

I beg to disagree with you. Just who is the they you refer to? CVG is probably one of the best airports within 300 miles. Look at the infrastructure they have in place in terms of runways, etc. and then look at the potential. They have one of the best reclamation and anti-pollution systems in the country for such items as anti-freezing solution sprayed on aircraft prior to takeoff.

 

How do you fault CVG with their response to Delta? Like any business, you respond to your biggest customer. Yes things went sour, but that was not CVG's fault, it was not even Delta's fault, it was a global change in the airline industry.

I've called out CVG's Board of Directors and Kenton County Trustees multiple times.  They are the stupidity and shortsightedness that fuels this debacle.  If you feel that they had no say in being pushed around by Delta in the good old days, then you probably believe them when they say they aspire to be a 250-flight domestic airport for the sake of it being feasible.

 

CVG should be better than a lot of airports within 300 miles; as you point out, it's a big city airport minus the population threshold, we agree there.  But when you're at a geographic, physical and logistical advantage over any Midwestern port not named Lambert, O'Hare or Detroit International, you should perform better than what's going on down at CVG. 

 

Lack of low-cost carriers, price of flights, zero international gateway.  The only thing left to pacify Cincinnati fliers with is having a greater number of direct domestics than a lot of cities within that 300-mi radius.  That's insufficient for me.

I wrote this back in July:

 

Sure they can. Offer incentives to airlines like they do for other companies in the area. Maybe Ohio can threaten to build another airport between Cincinnati and Dayton. Just the thought of that alone would  tell the board of directors at the airport, they need to do more than what they have been doing. Ohio don't want to lose any more of their businesses.

 

Having worked in the airport business for a number of years, I have just one question: don't you think that CVG management has done exactly this?

 

For years CVG was beholden to Delta's whims because Delta (and to a lesser extent, DHL) paid the bills.  It was not in CVG's interest to pursue other carriers because of the Delta honey pot that was already there.  It's like owning a shopping center where your major tenant (and 90% of your rent) is Home Depot.  Do you risk pissing off Home Depot by making pitches to Lowe's?

 

So then the low-fare carriers go to airports all around Cincinnati to pick off some of CVG's customers.  Perfectly legitimate form of competition, and now those carriers do a good business at those airports and would only be diluting existing demand if they add CVG now.  They would have never been able to compete with DL directly at CVG, so they went around it. 

 

But the airline business being what it is, an extremely solid business case must be made for any airline to add a any city.  Scores of cities have tried grants, loans, fare guarantees, covering operating expenses, providing ground staff, even wet-leasing aircraft for the airline to use, almost all with terrible results.  It's easy to say "CVG management go make a pitch to Southwest and Airtran and Jet Blue," and in fact there are whole annual conventions set up where airport managers from all over the country can sit down with the airlines to pitch their cities.  The reality is that it's extremely difficult to get an airline to take a gamble on starting service to a new city.  Keep in mind too that DL with 70 daily frequencies is still nothing to trifle with.  Southwest might even love to give us Chicago, but DL already serves it (as does AA and UA) and would just match the price and let SkyMiles do the rest.

 

...

 

Take a moment to think about the reality of this business.  Airline margins under deregulation have always been razor-thin, and more often non-existent.  One extra full seat often means the difference between a profitable flight versus a loss.  We can demand all we want but if conditions aren't exactly right, an airline simply won't supply it, incentives or not.

 

In short, CVG management has always acted rationally here.  It hurts as a consumer - and I fly out of DAY far more than I fly out of CVG because of fares - but you can't tell me that CVG should have risked its relationship with Delta by supporting a low-cost carrier when the airport was a goldmine for 20 years.  Not to mention that you can't just wiggle your nose and get a LCC to serve a fortress hub if there isn't a business case.

^When you accept payment (CVG) in exchange for extortion (Delta), the consequences are rarely transparent but the risks should be acknowledged.  CVG may have never had its moment in the sun in the 2000s, but it would be a more sound business structure today.

 

I don't think a well-ran airport befalls your example of dead strip malls and Home Depot as its lone survivor.  Said strip mall was poorly managed, that's why it became a slave to its sole tenant.

 

I understand Delta going with Detroit over Cincinnati, but Charlotte has benefited massively from the downgrade of CVG also.  When you let someone extort you, once they're done with you, they throw you away.

 

They can't destroy Terminal 1 & 2 quick enough.  They look like third world Dayton terminals and it would be nice to connect Concourse C with A & B via underground tram.  Any plans...

 

No, actually CVG's long-term plan is to stop operating the underground train altogether and connect the terminal to Concourse A with a skywalk. Concourses B and C are to be demolished in the long term.

 

Aren't you glad the airport's Board of Directors is making an active effort to shrink the airport rather than attempt to grow it?

What?! You're kidding me. They're goin to demolish terminals 1 & 2 and concourse's B & C and stop using the tram?! Terminal B is beautiful. It's not even that old. Where is this written? God these people are idiots.

It would be beyond short-sighted to demolish Concourse B; it's one of the best airport terminals in the country ... I can't believe the decision makers would be that stupid.

 

They can't destroy Terminal 1 & 2 quick enough.  They look like third world Dayton terminals and it would be nice to connect Concourse C with A & B via underground tram.  Any plans...

 

No, actually CVG's long-term plan is to stop operating the underground train altogether and connect the terminal to Concourse A with a skywalk. Concourses B and C are to be demolished in the long term.

 

Aren't you glad the airport's Board of Directors is making an active effort to shrink the airport rather than attempt to grow it?

 

Please advise the source of this information. I absolutely cannot fathom they are planning the demolition of Concourse B, it is beautiful.

 

Concourse C I can see, as it was a cheap construction to serve Comair plastered out in the middle of the tarmac, with stupid shuttle bus access.

 

And why stop the tram between the main terminal and concourses A & B. It exists and is reliable. I am not aware of any exhorbitant maintenance or operating costs associated with it. So why would it be abandoned?

 

So please cite your sources as I believe several of us just think you made this up.

What?! You're kidding me. They're goin to demolish terminals 1 & 2 and concourse's B & C and stop using the tram?! Terminal B is beautiful. It's not even that old. Where is this written? God these people are idiots.

I think they already stopped using the Tram. It wasn't running the past few times I have been there.

What?! You're kidding me. They're goin to demolish terminals 1 & 2 and concourse's B & C and stop using the tram?! Terminal B is beautiful. It's not even that old. Where is this written? God these people are idiots.

I think they already stopped using the Tram. It wasn't running the past few times I have been there.

 

It's been running the dozen or so times I've been to the airport over the past few months.  Concourse B is a little bit of a walk, and the tram is definitely quicker.

I just used the airport tram yesterday.

What?! You're kidding me. They're goin to demolish terminals 1 & 2 and concourse's B & C and stop using the tram?! Terminal B is beautiful. It's not even that old. Where is this written? God these people are idiots.

I think they already stopped using the Tram. It wasn't running the past few times I have been there.

 

I used the tram twice in December, most recently on Christmas Day.

What?! You're kidding me. They're goin to demolish terminals 1 & 2 and concourse's B & C and stop using the tram?! Terminal B is beautiful. It's not even that old. Where is this written? God these people are idiots.

I think they already stopped using the Tram. It wasn't running the past few times I have been there.

 

No, both trams are running. When Councourse A was closed, only one tram was running, but now that everything's in Terminal 3, both trams are running.

 

 

 

 

They can't destroy Terminal 1 & 2 quick enough.  They look like third world Dayton terminals and it would be nice to connect Concourse C with A & B via underground tram.  Any plans...

 

No, actually CVG's long-term plan is to stop operating the underground train altogether and connect the terminal to Concourse A with a skywalk. Concourses B and C are to be demolished in the long term.

 

Aren't you glad the airport's Board of Directors is making an active effort to shrink the airport rather than attempt to grow it?

 

Please advise the source of this information. I absolutely cannot fathom they are planning the demolition of Concourse B, it is beautiful.

 

Concourse C I can see, as it was a cheap construction to serve Comair plastered out in the middle of the tarmac, with stupid shuttle bus access.

 

And why stop the tram between the main terminal and concourses A & B. It exists and is reliable. I am not aware of any exhorbitant maintenance or operating costs associated with it. So why would it be abandoned?

 

So please cite your sources as I believe several of us just think you made this up.

 

...or I just looked at documents that are publicly available on CVG's website.

 

 

As you can see, the "Preferred 2035 Alternative" shows that Concourse B is demolished, Coucourse A is expanded, and there's a new connection between the Terminal and Concourse A.

 

In the top left alternative, they have extended Concourse A west and chopped off the eastern parts of both Concourses A and B.

 

In the bottom right alternative, they've demolished the whole thing and started over.

What?! You're kidding me. They're goin to demolish terminals 1 & 2 and concourse's B & C and stop using the tram?! Terminal B is beautiful. It's not even that old. Where is this written? God these people are idiots.

I think they already stopped using the Tram. It wasn't running the past few times I have been there.

 

No, both trams are running. When Councourse A was closed, only one tram was running, but now that everything's in Terminal 3, both trams are running.

 

 

 

 

They can't destroy Terminal 1 & 2 quick enough.  They look like third world Dayton terminals and it would be nice to connect Concourse C with A & B via underground tram.  Any plans...

 

No, actually CVG's long-term plan is to stop operating the underground train altogether and connect the terminal to Concourse A with a skywalk. Concourses B and C are to be demolished in the long term.

 

Aren't you glad the airport's Board of Directors is making an active effort to shrink the airport rather than attempt to grow it?

 

Please advise the source of this information. I absolutely cannot fathom they are planning the demolition of Concourse B, it is beautiful.

 

Concourse C I can see, as it was a cheap construction to serve Comair plastered out in the middle of the tarmac, with stupid shuttle bus access.

 

And why stop the tram between the main terminal and concourses A & B. It exists and is reliable. I am not aware of any exhorbitant maintenance or operating costs associated with it. So why would it be abandoned?

 

So please cite your sources as I believe several of us just think you made this up.

 

...or I just looked at documents that are publicly available on CVG's website.

 

 

As you can see, the "Preferred 2035 Alternative" shows that Concourse B is demolished, Coucourse A is expanded, and there's a new connection between the Terminal and Concourse A.

 

In the top left alternative, they have extended Concourse A west and chopped off the eastern parts of both Concourses A and B.

 

In the bottom right alternative, they've demolished the whole thing and started over.

 

I don't believe it is worth getting excited over someone's 2035 concept drawings at this time.

I do think their ultimate goal is to move everything into Concourse A so they can stop operating the tram. I guess we'll see whether they demolish Concourses B and C in the coming decades. My prediction is that flight volume will continue to drop and CVG will never need more than one concourse again.

Now, to make everything with Frontier's entry even a bit more interesting, United has responded by increasing service on their CVG-DEN route for the summer months. I don't think it will be on mainline aircraft, but still interesting to see them respond with *more* service. I wonder what we'll see happen to fares on this route?

 

UA DEN-CVG JUL 1.0>2.0 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2

 

Other tidbits from the latest CVG newsletter:

 

• Frontier Airlines has announced non-stop service from CVG to Denver, with convenient connections to 19 western destinations.

 

• US Airways has added a fourth daily non-stop flight to Washington, DC and is increasing the seat capacity on its morning flight to Philadelphia starting April 9.

 

• Vacation Express has extended its Cold Couples giveaway to Friday, Feb. 15. The couple with the best story about staying warm this winter wins a Caribbean vacation.

Now, to make everything with Frontier's entry even a bit more interesting, United has responded by increasing service on their CVG-DEN route for the summer months. I don't think it will be on mainline aircraft, but still interesting to see them respond with *more* service. I wonder what we'll see happen to fares on this route?

 

UA DEN-CVG JUL 1.0>2.0 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2

 

 

The United mainline ORD flight is supposed to be ceasing this month.  So I would suspect the increased daily DEN flight should be a regional aircraft.

Watch out, CVG!

 

EXCLUSIVE: Low-cost airline interested in Lunken

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130211/BIZ/302120014

 

Commercial air service could return to Lunken Airport for the first time in decades.

 

Low-cost carrier Allegiant Air is showing interest in launching two to four flights a week at the East End city-owned airfield, according to a document obtained by The Enquirer.

Now, to make everything with Frontier's entry even a bit more interesting, United has responded by increasing service on their CVG-DEN route for the summer months. I don't think it will be on mainline aircraft, but still interesting to see them respond with *more* service. I wonder what we'll see happen to fares on this route?

 

UA DEN-CVG JUL 1.0>2.0 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2

 

 

The United mainline ORD flight is supposed to be ceasing this month.  So I would suspect the increased daily DEN flight should be a regional aircraft.

 

yes, 2x CRJ-700 to DEN (still has first class though!)

 

I will not be surprised if the Airbus comes back later in the year though.

How long has it been, if ever, since you took a flight out of Lunken? A commercial airfield it is NOT. There has been an operation called Ultimate Air Shuttle operating out of Lunken to both NYC and Chicago for some time now, flying 30 passenger jets. For a one day business trip it may make sense, with nothing more than a brief case with you. Just pray the weather lets you get back the same day.

 

About 50 years ago I flew out of Lunken for awhile on a small charter. The President of my then employer thought it was a great idea as they would give him free flying lessons for our business, which he never completed. Arrive at Lunken around 6:00AM and the pilot would ask where are you all going? Well I am going to NYC, another to Buffalo, another to Green Bay, another to St Louis, another to New Orleans. What an absolute mess. Spend well over a half day in the Eastern US and not get to your destination.

 

There were reasons the airlines left Lunken and they will not go back. If they are so cheap they will fly out of Lunken I do not want to fly them as I have little confidence in their compentency.

Allegiant Air is a low-cost carrier, not a charter airline, so I don't understand how your middle paragraph is relevant.

 

Obviously Lunken does not have the same amenities as CVG, but if the city or state decided to invest in the facilities there, I don't see why it couldn't host a low-cost carrier like Allegiant. I mean, even CVG admits that Cincinnati's days as a hub are over, and Delta is the only carrier operating mainline service out of CVG, so why couldn't Lunken handle a few regional jets daily?

How long has it been, if ever, since you took a flight out of Lunken? A commercial airfield it is NOT. There has been an operation called Ultimate Air Shuttle operating out of Lunken to both NYC and Chicago for some time now, flying 30 passenger jets. For a one day business trip it may make sense, with nothing more than a brief case with you. Just pray the weather lets you get back the same day.

 

About 50 years ago I flew out of Lunken for awhile on a small charter. The President of my then employer thought it was a great idea as they would give him free flying lessons for our business, which he never completed. Arrive at Lunken around 6:00AM and the pilot would ask where are you all going? Well I am going to NYC, another to Buffalo, another to Green Bay, another to St Louis, another to New Orleans. What an absolute mess. Spend well over a half day in the Eastern US and not get to your destination.

 

There were reasons the airlines left Lunken and they will not go back. If they are so cheap they will fly out of Lunken I do not want to fly them as I have little confidence in their compentency.

 

I take Ultimate Air Shuttle out of Lunken for work pretty often.  It’s great, you walk right in, the pilot checks you in, and you get on the plane and leave a few minutes later.  Even though CVG has very quick security lines, it still takes time to get all the way out there, park, take the shuttle bus, etc.  Lunken should be able to handle a few commercial flights a week without many upgrades. 

 

I’ve been to smaller airports in rural areas that function almost exactly the same way, with 1 or 2 Delta flights in and out per day.  The TSA lines are open for about 30 minutes and everyone gets checked in quickly.  It is actually very efficient when everyone is just getting on the same plane at one gate. And as for baggage, those places usually just offload it onto a flat carrier, and drive it around to the terminal exit. 

 

How long has it been, if ever, since you took a flight out of Lunken? A commercial airfield it is NOT. There has been an operation called Ultimate Air Shuttle operating out of Lunken to both NYC and Chicago for some time now, flying 30 passenger jets. For a one day business trip it may make sense, with nothing more than a brief case with you. Just pray the weather lets you get back the same day.

 

About 50 years ago I flew out of Lunken for awhile on a small charter. The President of my then employer thought it was a great idea as they would give him free flying lessons for our business, which he never completed. Arrive at Lunken around 6:00AM and the pilot would ask where are you all going? Well I am going to NYC, another to Buffalo, another to Green Bay, another to St Louis, another to New Orleans. What an absolute mess. Spend well over a half day in the Eastern US and not get to your destination.

 

There were reasons the airlines left Lunken and they will not go back. If they are so cheap they will fly out of Lunken I do not want to fly them as I have little confidence in their compentency.

 

I take Ultimate Air Shuttle out of Lunken for work pretty often.  It’s great, you walk right in, the pilot checks you in, and you get on the plane and leave a few minutes later.  Even though CVG has very quick security lines, it still takes time to get all the way out there, park, take the shuttle bus, etc.  Lunken should be able to handle a few commercial flights a week without many upgrades. 

 

I’ve been to smaller airports in rural areas that function almost exactly the same way, with 1 or 2 Delta flights in and out per day.  The TSA lines are open for about 30 minutes and everyone gets checked in quickly.  It is actually very efficient when everyone is just getting on the same plane at one gate. And as for baggage, those places usually just offload it onto a flat carrier, and drive it around to the terminal exit.

 

I understand the Ultimate Air Shuttle and the reasons it may be attractive for a short business trip. I spent enough time in airports to recognize however you can reduce time spent there the better. But a vacation oriented airline? A reduced cost vacation says to me a lot of kids and luggage. My wife always had to carry half the house and the kitchen sink when we went on vacation.

 

Lunken is simply not equipped for this kind of operation. They want to operate 160 passenger planes on the route. That is more than twice the RJ-70s I used to fly out of CVG to Canada. That is not a small RJ. I just hope Cincinnati considers what they are getting themselves into before they agree to such an arrangement. Cincinnati is not in the commercial airline business and they should not be.

Now, to make everything with Frontier's entry even a bit more interesting, United has responded by increasing service on their CVG-DEN route for the summer months. I don't think it will be on mainline aircraft, but still interesting to see them respond with *more* service. I wonder what we'll see happen to fares on this route?

 

UA DEN-CVG JUL 1.0>2.0 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2

 

 

UA ran a 2nd DEN-CVG on a CR7 from May to September last year (with a ~ 12 AM arrival into CVG).  Not surprised to see UA do this again --- I'm not 100% sure I'd really classify this as a "response" to F9.  We'll see if they run it past the end of October (I tend to doubt it).

 

All in all, considering I make the DEN-CVG commute twice monthly for work ... nice that we've gone from 2 daily flights to 4 in just a couple weeks!

CVG is reportedly in talks with an Ultimate Air type company to provide similar service at the airport.  The air service will be out of Terminal 1 and would not require any security screening or TSA involvement, just as it is at Lunken. 

Delta's two shortest flights are CVG-LEX (mainline service) and CVG-DAY (regional carrier).

 

Imagine if HSR service operated between these cities. Not only would the trip be quicker, but you'd be able to use a laptop and be productive the whole time. (You might only get 10 minutes to use a laptop on those flights before you have to turn them off for landing.)

 

And the fact that Delta is operating flights shows that there is demand. (Megabus also operates between Cincinnati and Lexington.)

How could there possibly be demand for a flight from Cincinnati to Dayton? That makes no sense to me, as the total travel time, not to mention cost, would be significantly higher for flying than driving.  I think if we're going to seriously talk about high speed rail, the destinations should be further than what an easy drive would be.  Think maybe the 4-5 hour drive cities such as Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Nashville, maybe St. Louis.

^There's no demand for Cincinnati->Dayton, but there is demand for, say, Seattle from both Cincinnati and Dayton.  So they force everyone in one city to fly/drive to the other instead of having directs from Cincinnati->Seattle and Dayton->Seattle (Seattle picked as a hypothetical destination, due to its distance from Ohio).

 

It seems like you could operate with a lot less airports if you had highspeed rail linking nearby cities.  Suppose that only Columbus had an airport, with highspeed rail linking Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dayton, and Pittsburgh to it.  You might even buy a ticket from Cincinnati to Seattle, but instead of two flights, that ticket would include a train ride for the short leg and a flight for the long leg of the journey.  Good luck ever implementing this, but it could be done and would make a lot more sense than flying from Cincinnati to Dayton.  It would also make missing your connection due to your first flight being delayed a lot less common.

Cincinnati has two airports: CVG and James Cox.  The region is at an advantage domestically.  There should be rail between the two ports.

Cincinnati has two airports: CVG and James Cox.  The region is at an advantage domestically.  There should be rail between the two ports.

 

It's taken me longer to write this than google it, but what is James Cox?

and there we go,

 

James M. Cox Dayton International Airport is a public airport nine miles north of downtown Dayton, in Montgomery County, Ohio, United States

Cincinnati has two airports: CVG and James Cox.  The region is at an advantage domestically.  There should be rail between the two ports.

 

Maybe if you consider Cinci and Dayton to be some kind of megalopolis.  Downtown Cinci to DAY is approx. 70 miles.  that's a bit too far to be considered a co-terminal (think JFK/LGA).  Flights such as CVG-DAY and CVG-LEX are tag end flights.  It's not expected that they generate much O&D.  In fact that's why such city pairs have exorbitant fares and another reason why, in its' heyday, CVG had the highes average fares.  CVG had alot of short stage length flights which were high fare thus driving up the average airfare.

Cincinnati has two airports: CVG and James Cox.  The region is at an advantage domestically.  There should be rail between the two ports.

 

Maybe if you consider Cinci and Dayton to be some kind of megalopolis.  Downtown Cinci to DAY is approx. 70 miles.  that's a bit too far to be considered a co-terminal (think JFK/LGA).  Flights such as CVG-DAY and CVG-LEX are tag end flights.  It's not expected that they generate much O&D.  In fact that's why such city pairs have exorbitant fares and another reason why, in its' heyday, CVG had the highes average fares.  CVG had alot of short stage length flights which were high fare thus driving up the average airfare.

 

Just FYI - There is no CVG-LEX or CVG-DAY service any longer and hasn't been for several years now. More recently, CVG-IND and CVG-CLE have also ceased operation. I think CVG-CMH hasn't been flown since the intial drawdown of the CVG hub (at one time it was flown with 757s - can you imagine!)

Cincinnati has two airports: CVG and James Cox.  The region is at an advantage domestically.  There should be rail between the two ports.

 

Maybe if you consider Cinci and Dayton to be some kind of megalopolis.  Downtown Cinci to DAY is approx. 70 miles.  that's a bit too far to be considered a co-terminal (think JFK/LGA).  Flights such as CVG-DAY and CVG-LEX are tag end flights.  It's not expected that they generate much O&D.  In fact that's why such city pairs have exorbitant fares and another reason why, in its' heyday, CVG had the highes average fares.  CVG had alot of short stage length flights which were high fare thus driving up the average airfare.

 

How many regions around the world have over 3 million people with the kind of economic might that SW Ohio has?  Not as many as most Americans think.  There's more industry in SW Ohio than in most countries around the world.

 

You're a pilot so I'll assume that you knew this, but there are a lot of airports within 70 miles of major economic centers that aren't central to that city.  That's why when you search flights, there's an option to include airports within 80 miles or so.  Ohio is behind on this, but many of those regions have some form of transit to get passengers from the airport to the city center, so maybe that's why the two cities appear more disconnected than they really are.  Cincinnati and Dayton are connected socially, physically and economically, just not politically. 

 

If a flyer can save a chunk of funds by flying into Dayton and having someone pick them up from the airport and drive them home to the Cincinnati metro, they will do it.  It's been happening for years and CVG hates it.  That's why I consider Cincinnati to have two domestic ports.