^ This is why I do not listen to mainstream radio anymore. It is so clear where there interests are.

LMAO...I didn't know the West Bank was that dangerous. Are these people serious? My Dad told me one of his coworkers was impressed with Downtown. He loved East 4th. His coworker hadn't been downtown in twenty years. How can you live in Medina and work at Mittal and not have been downtown since the late eighties? These are the type of people we're are dealing with.

I dont understand how these people can teardown Cleveland.

 

The more they tear down and hurt Cleveland the more damage they do to all of NE Ohio.

LMAO...I didn't know the West Bank was that dangerous. Are these people serious? My Dad told me one of his coworkers was impressed with Downtown. He loved East 4th. His coworker hadn't been downtown in twenty years. How can you live in Medina and work at Mittal and not have been downtown since the late eighties? These are the type of people we're are dealing with.

 

Exactly...  I was hearing 20 years ago...how people have not been downtown in 20 years! After the mid 50's, urban living familiarity and habit really started to change to suburban. This is the only model they have known for years and old habits are hard to break. Still, I cannot fathom living in any metro-area's suburbs and not having been to the downtown in that long. Talk about trapped in a bubble. Well, these are the same people who's idea of world travel is riding the "Its A Small World" ride at Disney, or going to Vegas. What do you expect? Its just sad that such radio has the cash flow to make it appear that their opinions are what represents the majority. If UO, for example had an unlimited budget, we'd be hearing much different things about our city/region. Once again...the N.E. Ohio inferiority complex, our biggest enemy, reigns the airwaves!

 

This is a major reason I am starting the project of creating an online radio station focusing on all the Cleveland positives. I have a letter that describes the formula and I will be running on donations...so if anyone wants to help counter this nonsense, get with me.

They were talking about this for the 5 minutes I listed to 98.5 this morning. It seemed that it was mostly caller after caller saying they wouldn't feel safe letting their kids go to the powerhouse aquarium for a field trip, or they would never take their kids there because it is unsafe, etc. The rest of the time was the hosts bashing the location. Gotta love the suburban fear.

 

For godsakes the whole power house complex is surrounded by a fence!

^HA! Yes it is! And I wonder how many who say they'd never go there...actually have ever been there. (since many have not been downtown in 20 years!)These stations screen callers sometimes too...to get an idea of what you want to say and if it is not what they want to hear, they will not get to you...you get put on hold and wait till you hang up.

 

I don't support the PH location, by the way, but I also do not support this ridiculous and unfounded bashing.

Now that we've all discussed the reaction of the "boring people", can we please get the discussion back the aquarium? Thanks!

I'm really eager to see some plans and design on this.  Because right now, I just picture them filling the Powerhouse with water and I don't know if that's the best use for a historic building like that.

I'm really eager to see some plans and design on this. Because right now, I just picture them filling the Powerhouse with water and I don't know if that's the best use for a historic building like that.

 

the 19actionnews link above has a link to this hosted document that provides more detail:

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/woio/pdf/nutica2.pdf

 

It's been a while since I've been to the powerhouse, but is the comedy club and dueling piano bar still in the basement? And if so, any idea of what will become of those places?

It's been a while since I've been to the powerhouse, but is the comedy club and dueling piano bar still in the basement? And if so, any idea of what will become of those places?

 

It was mentioned that the tenants affected by the aquarium would be moved to the sugar warehouse (shooters building)

^ Isn't Silk Night Club still in that place?

I thought so.  They mentioned there were numerous vacancies there?  Doesnt Silk take up that space, or is the once Jillians still vacant?

I just spoke with someone I know associated with The Cleveland Aquarium, or what I like to refer to as the "real aquarium"--and it has been indicated that their project is far from gone, and that in a week or so we should be hearing a major announcement that will in full detail illustrate and demonstrate the scale of their project--and that we will definitely see the major differences between the Jacobs project and theirs. From following the CA project, in my strong opinion, I am very confident that CA's project would do Cleveland proud in the eyes of the whole world when it comes to such attractions--truly world class, and kick ass! That's all I can say right now, but get ready to rock!  :clap:

I just spoke with someone I know associated with The Cleveland Aquarium, or what I like to refer to as the "real aquarium"--and it has been indicated that their project is far from gone, and that in a week or so we should be hearing a major announcement that will in full detail illustrate and demonstrate the scale of their project--and that we will definitely see the major differences between the Jacobs project and theirs. From following the CA project, in my strong opinion, I am very confident that CA's project would do Cleveland proud in the eyes of the whole world when it comes to such attractions--truly world class, and kick ass! That's all I can say right now, but get ready to rock!  :clap:

 

Hope you're right... Something really smells about this Jacobs Aquarium.  One, a major aquarium should be in a signature building (see: new, modern) not an adapted streetcar powerhouse... The proposal Council seems so eager to loan Clevelander's hard-earned cash too, feels more like a project to bail out a struggling Jacobs venture (the Powerhouse which is suffering from the death of Flats' entertainment which, unfortunately, wasn't helped much by K & D's attractive, though fortress-like, functionally-sterile Stonebridge complex, with it's no street-level retail and clubby/in-ie restaurants).  I'd prefer the originally proposed location which is both immediately accessible to the RTA Waterfront Line, on Lake Erie, closer to the new convention center and Amtrak terminal and kinda-sorta near the little museum area the City's created with the Rock Hall & Science center...

 

... I don't know why Council is in such a rush to give Jacobs money to build HIS aquarium when, really, such a major project should be built with the best interests of the City in mind -- some of which I just outlined.

I just spoke with someone I know associated with The Cleveland Aquarium, or what I like to refer to as the "real aquarium"--and it has been indicated that their project is far from gone, and that in a week or so we should be hearing a major announcement that will in full detail illustrate and demonstrate the scale of their project--and that we will definitely see the major differences between the Jacobs project and theirs. From following the CA project, in my strong opinion, I am very confident that CA's project would do Cleveland proud in the eyes of the whole world when it comes to such attractions--truly world class, and kick ass! That's all I can say right now, but get ready to rock! :clap:

 

Hope you're right... Something really smells about this Jacobs Aquarium. One, a major aquarium should be in a signature building (see: new, modern) not an adapted streetcar powerhouse... The proposal Council seems so eager to loan Clevelander's hard-earned cash too, feels more like a project to bail out a struggling Jacobs venture (the Powerhouse which is suffering from the death of Flats' entertainment which, unfortunately, wasn't helped much by K & D's attractive, though fortress-like, functionally-sterile Stonebridge complex, with it's no street-level retail and clubby/in-ie restaurants). I'd prefer the originally proposed location which is both immediately accessible to the RTA Waterfront Line, on Lake Erie, closer to the new convention center and Amtrak terminal and kinda-sorta near the little museum area the City's created with the Rock Hall & Science center...

 

... I don't know why Council is in such a rush to give Jacobs money to build HIS aquarium when, really, such a major project should be built with the best interests of the City in mind -- some of which I just outlined.

 

You make many great points...I could answer that last question....But don't know if I should say anything about it yet. But let me just say that if you smell a fart..someone probably farted. Sorry, I am not very eloquent with my description on that one, but you get the picture!  :-)

There are three vacancies on the back of the Sugar Warehouse. Shooters takes up the whole eastside of the building, Silk takes up an L shape portion. The whole west end and northwest end are vacant. A modeling agency was in the northwest corner, Coconuts and various nightclubs on the top half and I believe a Paninni style restaurant was in the front west portion. All three of those spots are currently empty

Maybe this will draw some people into the Flats, but I just don't imagine it being that great. Maybe it will be. I'm used to Mayor Jackson shying away from these sorts of things, so I'm a little surpirised that he's supporting it. Maybe the presentation that he's seen shows a project that will prove to be very appealing.

 

Still, I don't like the location. I think some thing like this would work better if located near the GLSC.

 

Additionally, I don't really like the idea of Cleveland pursuing a larger stand alone aquarium. There have been so many other aquariums that have come on line lately. Each time they get bigger and better. I'd rather see the region pour its resources into something more original and unique.

Maybe this will draw some people into the Flats, but I just don't imagine it being that great. Maybe it will be. I'm used to Mayor Jackson shying away from these sorts of things, so I'm a little surpirised that he's supporting it. Maybe the presentation that he's seen shows a project that will prove to be very appealing.

 

Still, I don't like the location. I think some thing like this would work better if located near the GLSC.

 

Additionally, I don't really like the idea of Cleveland pursuing a larger stand alone aquarium. There have been so many other aquariums that have come on line lately. Each time they get bigger and better. I'd rather see the region pour its resources into something more original and unique.

 

I like the fact that it's on the West bank, but there needs to be an easy connection to both sides of the flats. 

 

Why concentrate everything in one spot??  Spreading things around and properly marketing the area along with easy access ensures more of downtown will be seen.

I just wish this city would not be so desperate to whore itself out to any development that comes along... Just for the sake of development. That's exactly what this is no matter how it is sugarcoated. I'm just very much for quality instead of quantity.

I just wish this city would not be so desperate to whore itself out to any development that comes along... Just for the sake of development. That's exactly what this is no matter how it is sugarcoated. I'm just very much for quality instead of quantity.

Oh for crying out loud, your personal preference is not whats always best for the city as a whole.

 

If I had my way, Euclid Avenue would look like Avenue des Champs Elysees!  ::)  ::)  ::)

I just wish this city would not be so desperate to whore itself out to any development that comes along... Just for the sake of development. That's exactly what this is no matter how it is sugarcoated. I'm just very much for quality instead of quantity.

Oh for crying out loud, your personal preference is not whats always best for the city as a whole.

 

If I had my way, Euclid Avenue would look like Avenue des Champs Elysees!  ::)  ::)  ::)

 

Yes but in this case he is right... and your idea about the Champs Elysees doesn't suck either. :-D

In a perfect world, I'd like to see both aquariums succeed, of course...and I agree with MTS, I think all of these new attractions should not necessarily be built on top of each other....One other thing...does the Powerhouse Aquarium need the Casino issue to pass in order for it to get built?  In order for it to succeed? 

 

Is there an expected synergy on the developers' part between these two Flats projects?  Just wondering.

^In a word... No.

The proposal Council seems so eager to loan Clevelander's hard-earned cash too, feels more like a project to bail out a struggling Jacobs venture (the Powerhouse which is suffering from the death of Flats' entertainment which, unfortunately, wasn't helped much by K & D's attractive, though fortress-like, functionally-sterile Stonebridge complex, with it's no street-level retail and clubby/in-ie restaurants).

 

Why do you feel the Powerhouse is struggling?  I don't have any numbers, but the parking lot usually has a good number of cars in it.  Thu-Sun it looks pretty full.

The proposal Council seems so eager to loan Clevelander's hard-earned cash too, feels more like a project to bail out a struggling Jacobs venture (the Powerhouse which is suffering from the death of Flats' entertainment which, unfortunately, wasn't helped much by K & D's attractive, though fortress-like, functionally-sterile Stonebridge complex, with it's no street-level retail and clubby/in-ie restaurants). 

 

Why do you feel the Powerhouse is struggling?  I don't have any numbers, but the parking lot usually has a good number of cars in it.  Thu-Sun it looks pretty full.

 

Rock Bottom and Howl at the Moon are pretty consistently crowded Thurs-Sun, and there is almost always an event at Windows on the River.......

I always see a lot of activity there too.... The Powerhouse venues always attracted a better crowd and somewhat separate crowd than Flats East Bank. Flats East, although it had a few upper scale venues.... was mostly a lot of bars/dance clubs, while The Powerhouse was more of a 'go out on a date' type place. The venues at the Power House were clearly different than most on the east bank, and so didn't really rely on a lot of support from that side, or so it really appeared.

 

If anyone remembers Game Keepers Tavern that was in The Powerhouse in the early to mid '90's....  That's when Power Play was there, Grand Slam Grille...  Such a neat place. I set up the smaller aquariums that were displayed in Gamekeepers with the "Lake Erie Fishes" displays...and spent a lot of time there...and the crowds on the east bank and those who were in the Power House were clearly different.  There is actually still a lot in the building.

 

I really don't care if Jacobs wants to put this aquarium in there...But, what I have a problem with is this getting confused with something that will ring tones of the Baltimore/Tennessee Aquariums, etc. because it is not that---And, if it does not do well, and CA does not quite have all its ducks on the pond and in line yet....I would not want this thing, in the meanwhile... to tarnish the idea of having an aquarium here and steer away support and good perception... because what CA is doing and what Jacobs is doing, is not comparing apples to apples.

Isn't there another club in there too? C

The proposal Council seems so eager to loan Clevelander's hard-earned cash too, feels more like a project to bail out a struggling Jacobs venture (the Powerhouse which is suffering from the death of Flats' entertainment which, unfortunately, wasn't helped much by K & D's attractive, though fortress-like, functionally-sterile Stonebridge complex, with it's no street-level retail and clubby/in-ie restaurants).

 

Why do you feel the Powerhouse is struggling? I don't have any numbers, but the parking lot usually has a good number of cars in it. Thu-Sun it looks pretty full.

 

Rock Bottom and Howl at the Moon are pretty consistently crowded Thurs-Sun, and there is almost always an event at Windows on the River.......

 

Isn't there another club in there too...at the east side of the building? Let's get a list of all current active tenants... Improve...  Is that still there? It was when I was there last...last year. (I was actually in the place)

Isn't there another club in there too? C

The proposal Council seems so eager to loan Clevelander's hard-earned cash too, feels more like a project to bail out a struggling Jacobs venture (the Powerhouse which is suffering from the death of Flats' entertainment which, unfortunately, wasn't helped much by K & D's attractive, though fortress-like, functionally-sterile Stonebridge complex, with it's no street-level retail and clubby/in-ie restaurants).

 

Why do you feel the Powerhouse is struggling? I don't have any numbers, but the parking lot usually has a good number of cars in it. Thu-Sun it looks pretty full.

 

Rock Bottom and Howl at the Moon are pretty consistently crowded Thurs-Sun, and there is almost always an event at Windows on the River.......

 

Isn't there another club in there too...at the east side of the building? Let's get a list of all current active tenants... Improve... Is that still there? It was when I was there last...last year. (I was actually in the place)

 

Yes, the Improv is still there.  And Cyrus, which I think is more of an event center only open Fri/Sat in the summer.

 

But Rock Bottom, Howl at the Moon, and The Improv still draw big crowds...and the charity poker events.

Could the addition of an aquarium be enough to spur construction on further phases of Stronebridge? Whichever square footage number you run with, it seems like that would use up most of the available commercial space in the west bank.

Could the addition of an aquarium be enough to spur construction on further phases of Stronebridge? Whichever square footage number you run with, it seems like that would use up most of the available commercial space in the west bank.

 

I don't think so. An aquarium is a very different commercial use than, say, a restaurant or a movie theatre.  The latter two uses are the kinds of amenities that encourage the kind of frequent returns that contribute to a residential neighborhood, whereas an aquarium may be visited once or twice a year, if that. There is no real advantage to living nearby.

Could the addition of an aquarium be enough to spur construction on further phases of Stronebridge? Whichever square footage number you run with, it seems like that would use up most of the available commercial space in the west bank.

 

I don't think so. An aquarium is a very different commercial use than, say, a restaurant or a movie theatre. The latter two uses are the kinds of amenities that encourage the kind of frequent returns that contribute to a residential neighborhood, whereas an aquarium may be visited once or twice a year, if that. There is no real advantage to living nearby.

 

Well, the aquarium could spurn the development of more entertainment options in the West Bank if it ends up bringing more visitors into the area, which in turn could spurn more residential development...not sure about Stonebridge expansion though...

Could the addition of an aquarium be enough to spur construction on further phases of Stronebridge? Whichever square footage number you run with, it seems like that would use up most of the available commercial space in the west bank.

 

I don't think so. An aquarium is a very different commercial use than, say, a restaurant or a movie theatre.  The latter two uses are the kinds of amenities that encourage the kind of frequent returns that contribute to a residential neighborhood, whereas an aquarium may be visited once or twice a year, if that. There is no real advantage to living nearby.

 

Well, the aquarium could spurn the development of more entertainment options in the West Bank if it ends up bringing more visitors into the area, which in turn could spurn more residential development...not sure about Stonebridge expansion though...

 

Agreed.  I think the stonebridge folks will have to alter their master plan or work with other developers to acheive their masterplan of a fully built out mixed use neighborhood on the West Bank.

I have been skeptical of aquarium projects since I saw this episode of "TV Nation" and I am not happy to hear millions of public money is going to be spent for one in Cleveland.

 

http://www.tv.com/tv-nation/show/9951/episode.html

 

Aquarium: Places like Camden, New Jersey, Long Beach, California, and Tulsa, Oklahoma, struggling to get by, have turned to big fish tanks to boost tourism and hopefully save their inner cities. ... These tourist aquariums have failed to turn their communities around. What were the town leaders thinking when they devised these "fishy" plans for economic recovery? TV Nation investigates.

 

For sale: http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/tv-nation/205193

I wonder if anyone is considering the welfare of animals in this project...or, are we simply not caring about that aspect (which is extremely important to running a successful aquarium) and simply taking an exploitation attitude for the hope it spurs further development. Sorry, this is how I am interpreting some of the attitudes here and for someone who has worked closely with these animals and has associated with those dedicated to quality in this field, its really off- putting.

I have been skeptical of aquarium projects since I saw this episode of "TV Nation" and I am not happy to hear millions of public money is going to be spent for one in Cleveland.

 

http://www.tv.com/tv-nation/show/9951/episode.html

 

Aquarium: Places like Camden, New Jersey, Long Beach, California, and Tulsa, Oklahoma, struggling to get by, have turned to big fish tanks to boost tourism and hopefully save their inner cities. ... These tourist aquariums have failed to turn their communities around. What were the town leaders thinking when they devised these "fishy" plans for economic recovery? TV Nation investigates.

 

For sale: http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/tv-nation/205193

 

Again, this isn't a SILVER BULLET its another destination in a city filled with great things.

 

I hope whatever aquriums are built that partner with the metroparks therefore bringing in existing infrastructure, expertise and a membership base to build upon.

I am convinced that the aquarium idea is a good one, but a suboptimal location.  A better location would be on the waterfront "museum" loop.  Why can't this be incorporated into the scaled down Flats East Bank development?

I am convinced that the aquarium idea is a good one, but a suboptimal location.  A better location would be on the waterfront "museum" loop.  Why can't this be incorporated into the scaled down Flats East Bank development?

 

Why must everything be in one place?  WHY??!!!  And I don't want to here "well it's done like that in X place".

 

If properly marketed this could be the thing that helps pump more people - permanent and visitors - into the west bank.

 

If they want to visit NCH, that another "area" they will make a must see.

 

Concentrating everything in once place is not always the answer.

I have to agree with MTS. I like the location.

 

And if you consider the possibilities of the larger aquarium project in that is in works, maybe that could be a good fit at NCH.

 

I am convinced that the aquarium idea is a good one, but a suboptimal location. A better location would be on the waterfront "museum" loop. Why can't this be incorporated into the scaled down Flats East Bank development?

 

Why must everything be in one place? WHY??!!! And I don't want to here "well it's done like that in X place".

 

If properly marketed this could be the thing that helps pump more people - permanent and visitors - into the west bank.

 

If they want to visit NCH, that another "area" they will make a must see.

 

Concentrating everything in once place is not always the answer.

I am convinced that the aquarium idea is a good one, but a suboptimal location.  A better location would be on the waterfront "museum" loop.  Why can't this be incorporated into the scaled down Flats East Bank development?

 

Why must everything be in one place?  WHY??!!!  And I don't want to here "well it's done like that in X place".

 

If properly marketed this could be the thing that helps pump more people - permanent and visitors - into the west bank.

 

If they want to visit NCH, that another "area" they will make a must see.

 

Concentrating everything in once place is not always the answer.

Why you ask? How about it would be nice to be able to get to the aquarium without driving? I really doubt that RTA would divert a bus to go down to the west bank of the flats for an aquarium considering their financial woes, so the nearest bus stop is W25 and Detroit. I know it's less than a half mile from W25th and Detroit to the powerhouse, but for an attraction that will bring mostly families, it would be ideal IMO for it to be somewhere that most of us can get to either on foot from downtown while pushing a stroller or with a very short walk from a bus/brt/train from downtown. Considering that half mile walk is uphill on the way out of the flats, it's not very pedestrian friendly. (Have you ever pushed a stroller with a whiny kid uphill for half a mile? Or tried to drag a toddler that far that has decided after walking around the aquarium their feet are tired and they just want a nap?)

 

If I didn't know better I'd think that you're endorsing a location that guarantees that most customers drive. If an aquarium ends up in the powerhouse, I can guarantee my wife wouldn't try to get there without the car, and I doubt too many other parents with small children would try either, and I assume families with small children are going to be one of the primary target audiences of an aquarium.

 

I don't think it everything must "be in one place", but I do think it should be somewhere more walkable for families than the powerhouse.

 

(I should add the disclaimer that the last time I walked from the west bank of the flats to downtown was well over a decade ago and I was not completely sober, so the steepness of the hill may not be as significant as I remember.)

I am convinced that the aquarium idea is a good one, but a suboptimal location.  A better location would be on the waterfront "museum" loop.  Why can't this be incorporated into the scaled down Flats East Bank development?

 

Why must everything be in one place?  WHY??!!!  And I don't want to here "well it's done like that in X place".

 

If properly marketed this could be the thing that helps pump more people - permanent and visitors - into the west bank.

 

If they want to visit NCH, that another "area" they will make a must see.

 

Concentrating everything in once place is not always the answer.

Why you ask? How about it would be nice to be able to get to the aquarium without driving? I really doubt that RTA would divert a bus to go down to the west bank of the flats for an aquarium considering their financial woes, so the nearest bus stop is W25 and Detroit. I know it's less than a half mile from W25th and Detroit to the powerhouse, but for an attraction that will bring mostly families, it would be ideal IMO for it to be somewhere that most of us can get to either on foot from downtown while pushing a stroller or with a very short walk from a bus/brt/train from downtown. Considering that half mile walk is uphill on the way out of the flats, it's not very pedestrian friendly. (Have you ever pushed a stroller with a whiny kid uphill for half a mile? Or tried to drag a toddler that far that has decided after walking around the aquarium their feet are tired and they just want a nap?)

 

If I didn't know better I'd think that you're endorsing a location that guarantees that most customers drive. If an aquarium ends up in the powerhouse, I can guarantee my wife wouldn't try to get there without the car, and I doubt too many other parents with small children would try either, and I assume families with small children are going to be one of the primary target audiences of an aquarium.

 

I don't think it everything must "be in one place", but I do think it should be somewhere more walkable for families than the powerhouse.

 

(I should add the disclaimer that the last time I walked from the west bank of the flats to downtown was well over a decade ago and I was not completely sober, so the steepness of the hill may not be as significant as I remember.)

 

I find it highly ironic that "lack of transit friendly options" is being sited as a reason for poor location.

 

When I brought up the idea of expanding a circulator into the West Bank in the RTA thread (years ago) I was ridiculed...told "people like to walk across the river from the Settler's Landing station" or "W25th & Detroit is right there".

 

Apparently, it is all about perception.

 

BTW, you can walk to Tower City from the West Bank and not really walk up any hills...there is a back door.  There are also stairs on the back side of the Federal Courthouse, which has a walkway to TC.  Or the aquarium could provide a shuttle...

 

Or the majority of your visitors are going to be coming from non-transit friendly areas anyway, so it doesn't matter.

 

 

I find it highly ironic that "lack of transit friendly options" is being sited as a reason for poor location.

 

When I brought up the idea of expanding a circulator into the West Bank in the RTA thread [glow=red,2,300](years ago)[/glow] I was ridiculed...told "people like to walk across the river from the Settler's Landing station" or "W25th & Detroit is right there".

Sheesh, hold a grudge much?  :-P

 

BTW, you can walk to Tower City from the West Bank and not really walk up any hills...there is a back door.  There are also stairs on the back side of the Federal Courthouse, which has a walkway to TC.  Or the aquarium could provide a shuttle...

Yes, but if I'm being an idiot and forget about the center street bridge while looking at the map, then it looks a lot further and up hill. Sorry, I'll go remove this darn foot from my mouth now.  :wave:

 

Or the majority of your visitors are going to be coming from non-transit friendly areas anyway, so it doesn't matter.

True, true. Still it would be nice if transit to the aquarium was easier. I still think that there are better places than the powerhouse for it.

I will agree with the pedestrian/bus access issue.  Anytime the mister and I go to Rock Bottom, we drive.  Why?  Because the walk from W. 25th and Detroit is a long, rather shady walk, and walking the Center Street Bridge route is quite a hike in itself.  I would LOVE to someday see a pedestrian bridge (like what is being proposed for NCH) from the Settlers' Landing WFL stop to the Powerhouse area.  I mean, after all, they are literally right across the river from each other.

"I would LOVE to someday see a pedestrian bridge (like what is being proposed for NCH) from the Settlers' Landing WFL stop to the Powerhouse area.  I mean, after all, they are literally right across the river from each other."

 

That's been one of those things I've always thought would make downtown even more pedestrian friendly, especially the Flats and Warehouse District. To newcomers, it's not readily clear how to get to Center Street, and then over to the Powerhouse - but to be able to head down either St. Clair or the little stretch of West Superior leading to Settlers Landing? It would definitely help boost traffic for an aquarium there.

I find it highly ironic that "lack of transit friendly options" is being sited as a reason for poor location.

 

When I brought up the idea of expanding a circulator into the West Bank in the RTA thread [glow=red,2,300](years ago)[/glow] I was ridiculed...told "people like to walk across the river from the Settler's Landing station" or "W25th & Detroit is right there".

Sheesh, hold a grudge much?  :-P

 

 

lol...I only added that part in case someone decide to go check the thread and investigate...

 

Plus I still regularly think/wish the RTA was more accessible from the West Bank and I remember what I was told when I asked around about it on the forum.  Walking is fine for me; not so much for my wife if she's dressed up (which probably supports your point).

 

Ultimately I agree the West Bank is not transit freindly although the Flat Iron has a shuttle to sporting events...Christie's has a shuttle to W6th ;)

 

Bring back the Holy Moses water taxi!

I am convinced that the aquarium idea is a good one, but a suboptimal location. A better location would be on the waterfront "museum" loop. Why can't this be incorporated into the scaled down Flats East Bank development?

 

Why must everything be in one place? WHY??!!! And I don't want to here "well it's done like that in X place".

 

If properly marketed this could be the thing that helps pump more people - permanent and visitors - into the west bank.

 

If they want to visit NCH, that another "area" they will make a must see.

 

Concentrating everything in once place is not always the answer.

 

Answer: public transportaton

Sorry, but I feel those are all excuses.  I'm sure that with an development like this, RTA will be contacted to help with assisting transit schedules/routes.

 

Even without direct acess.  I feel "transportation" options is still an excuse and I'm a transit advocate.

Nautica needs a daytime attraction, that is why they brought it in. 

 

Why must everything be in one place?  WHY??!!!  And I don't want to here "well it's done like that in X place".

 

If properly marketed this could be the thing that helps pump more people - permanent and visitors - into the west bank.

 

If they want to visit NCH, that another "area" they will make a must see.

 

Concentrating everything in once place is not always the answer.

 

The Q is: Why not?

 

Let’s see, MyTwoSense, you’re complaining about “everything has to be built in the same place”.  Last I looked, the there is NOTHING being built at that location right now.  Wolstein’s residential project is on indefinite hold, and the office/hotel that is moving forward is not where the aquarium was originally slated.

 

MTS, if you look around you’d recognized that Cleveland needs to concentrate more development in a few places rather than it’s building here, building there sprawl that’s created the low-density developmental islands we currently have.  And why not create TOD?  If your complaint is why everything needs to be near mass transit (since you seem so adamant against any project having to do with Tower City and have gone on record as saying TC has been the death of Euclid retail), maybe I missed something.  Steelyards Commons, Legacy Village, Harvard plaza, Crocker Park, among others have all been developed away from transit. 

 

So what’s the problem of wanting the proposed aquarium in a location near the lake, near a developing district (as well as other museums and near a rapid transit line?    Perhaps the better question, MTS, is why are we hardly developing anything near our rail system?  I  don’t understand your point.

 

 

 

 

Why must everything be in one place?  WHY??!!!  And I don't want to here "well it's done like that in X place".

 

If properly marketed this could be the thing that helps pump more people - permanent and visitors - into the west bank.

 

If they want to visit NCH, that another "area" they will make a must see.

 

Concentrating everything in once place is not always the answer.

 

The Q is: Why not?

 

Let’s see, MyTwoSense, you’re complaining about “everything has to be built in the same place”.  Last I looked, the there is NOTHING being built at that location right now.  Wolstein’s residential project is on indefinite hold, and the office/hotel that is moving forward is not where the aquarium was originally slated.

 

MTS, if you look around you’d recognized that Cleveland needs to concentrate more development in a few places rather than it’s building here, building there sprawl that’s created the low-density developmental islands we currently have.  And why not create TOD?  If your complaint is why everything needs to be near mass transit (since you seem so adamant against any project having to do with Tower City and have gone on record as saying TC has been the death of Euclid retail), maybe I missed something.  Steelyards Commons, Legacy Village, Harvard plaza, Crocker Park, among others have all been developed away from transit. 

 

So what’s the problem of wanting the proposed aquarium in a location near the lake, near a developing district (as well as other museums and near a rapid transit line?    Perhaps the better question, MTS, is why are we hardly developing anything near our rail system?  I  don’t understand your point.

 

 

 

 

And this project, the demand for people to move into the area plus this give the neighborhood a multi dimensional appeal.

 

Dude, you're reflecting your wants and the way you would run things if you're in charge.  The reality of this situation and any other development is, it's not our money. Yes we can influence things by going to community board and development meetings. 

 

I've never said that TC was the death of Euclid, I said:

[*]The building of all the Avenue sucked the last remaining shoppers off of Euclid

[*]Contributed to its demise.  Further deteriorating what retail was left.

[*]Helped to give the "perception" that downtown/ Euclid was dead

Do you now understand??

 

This isn't a suburban development its in downtown Cleveland so your suburban comparisons don't hold water.

 

I think there needs to be more TOD, however, that doesn't mean EVERY project needs to be TOD.  This is going into a neighborhood that is attempting to be multidimensional.  This could used as a catalyst to bring other daytime activities and be used as a marketing tool to get young families to move into the area.

 

We're so accustomed to looking at why we cannot do something instead looking at the possibilities. 

 

Just because there is existing rail and the other activities on NCH that does not immediately mean this aquarium should be built there.