To echo above, if you were bored in downtown over labor day weekend than I'm not sure a few fish swimming under the mall would really help much.

 

Have you ever been to Shedd Aquarium in Chicago? I haven't, but I hear it's amazing. :) And it's a huge tourist draw.

To echo above, if you were bored in downtown over labor day weekend than I'm not sure a few fish swimming under the mall would really help much.

Have you ever been to Shedd Aquarium in Chicago? I haven't, but I hear it's amazing. :) And it's a huge tourist draw.

I'm sure an aquarium would draw some tourists all year round, but there was plenty to do and see around downtown Cleveland without it last weekend.

 

To echo above, if you were bored in downtown over labor day weekend than I'm not sure a few fish swimming under the mall would really help much.

 

Have you ever been to Shedd Aquarium in Chicago? I haven't, but I hear it's amazing. :) And it's a huge tourist draw.

 

Just went a couple months ago.  It was amazing but a bit outside downtown Chicago.  Aquariums are the type of attractions that will not neccessarily draw people to the City like the RRHOF does but will keep them entertained while there in town.  The way I see it, they are a day filler.... sort of like a science center.  If we do build an aquarium, I doubt it will be on the scale of Shedd..... even the website seems to suggest a moderate sized aquarium.

To echo above, if you were bored in downtown over labor day weekend than I'm not sure a few fish swimming under the mall would really help much.

 

Have you ever been to Shedd Aquarium in Chicago? I haven't, but I hear it's amazing. :) And it's a huge tourist draw.

 

Just went a couple months ago. It was amazing but a bit outside downtown Chicago. Aquariums are the type of attractions that will not neccessarily draw people to the City like the RRHOF does but will keep them entertained while there in town. The way I see it, they are a day filler.... sort of like a science center. If we do build an aquarium, I doubt it will be on the scale of Shedd..... even the website seems to suggest a moderate sized aquarium.

 

Sure.

 

I just think that an aquarium to North Coast Harbor would make such a great addition to the more "tourist-friendly" attractions there. Make a stop at RRHOF, the Science Center .. and then the Aquarium. It would be cool.

 

Quantcast

 

CLEVELAND -- Channel 3 News' Tom Beres has learned that Powerhouse developer Jeff Jacobs has teamed up with New Zealand-based Marinescape to build an aquarium in the Powerhouse in the Nautica complex on the West Bank of The Flats.

 

Jacobs Investments Management Co., Inc., and Marinescape NZ Limited have reached an agreement to bring a 55,000 sq. ft. aquarium development to the Powerhouse.

 

The Nautica Aquarium will be integrated into the Powerhouse to create an exciting underwater environment with special emphasis on the building's unique architectural elements.

 

The Nautica Aquarium will be its first walk-through aquarium development in the United States and will feature SeaTubeTM, its horizontal, curved underwater tunnel offering panoramic views of marine life from under the sea.

 

In addition to the main tropical walk-through tank, the Nautica Aquarium will feature special exhibits on the Great Lakes, Lake Erie, the Cuyahoga River, a fresh-water Asian exhibit and a Discover/Education exhibit.

 

The Nautica Aquarium will have classrooms with a full-time teaching staff, offering lessons developed in conjunction with local boards of education.

 

The staff is expected to collaborate with local schools and universities on research projects and develop local community-based ecological and educational outreach programs.

 

Jacobs Investments and Marinescape are in the process of completing the due diligence and financing for the aquarium.

 

It is expected to attract 400,000 to 500,000 visitors annually to Cleveland, make an $9.6 million to $27.2 million local economic impact and create 40 full-time jobs with a payroll of $1.6 million, Jacobs said today.

 

It should open in the summer of 2010.

 

The Nautica Aquarium is designed to complement other attractions in Cleveland and the Flats. Nautica includes Shooter's on the Water, Rockbottom Brewery & Restaurant, IMPROV Comedy Club, Windows on the River Banquet Room, the Nautica Queen Dinner Cruise Ship and the Nautica Charity Poker Festivals.

 

The Nautica Pavilion, a 5,000-seat outdoor amphitheater, is expected to host aquarium related events.

 

While all existing tenants in the Powerhouse are expected to remain open, certain ones will be relocated within Nautica to make way for the aquarium.

 

Expansion alternatives for the aquarium beyond 55,000 square feet are also being evaluated.

 

In the past 25 years, Marinescape has built 21 major projects in cities like Hong Kong, Beijing, St. Petersburg, Singapore and several cities in Australia, including Perth, Sydney, and Brisbane.

 

It is currently working on an ecoaquarium in Istanbul.

New aquarium coming to the flats...

Awesome! This is the best news day we've had in some time.

whoa....let it happen.

 

"Open summer 2010"

^Excellent!  That's great news!

 

Now we can see comedy, strip shows, AND fish in the same location!

Aww, beat me to it.  I posted it in the Random Cle Developments Thread cause the search was being prohibitively slow........

 

Seriously, though, where'd that come from?

Question?  Is that space big enough to hold a quality aquarium?  I would like to see plans.

To put it in perspective, Shedd Aquarium in Chicago is 400,000+ sq ft.  Shedd is world class though and contains a 170,000 sq. ft. oceanarium.  The original building was 220,000 sq. ft.

 

I love the idea of an aquarium in Cleveland, save for the fact that I would much rather see it in a location where the Lake could be incorporated and the scale could certainly be larger (though something the size of Shedd is most probably not realistic).

Punch lines you missed:

 

Now I'll never be able to get that smell out of the fish!

The Nautica parking lot is big enough for whales to mate there.  Building this out in stages, starting with the 55k, seems like a good way to go.  Another benchmark is the Tennessee Aquarium in Chattanooga, which is 130,000 sq.ft.  Their 2002 expansion alone was more than 55,000 sq. ft., added to the 130,000 from the original building.  So the Nautica one would be on the small side.  But what's its competition in this area?  None that I know of.  Chicago is far.

Here's the link: http://www.wkyc.com/news/politics_govt/politics_article.aspx?storyid=116088&catid=130

Interesting. 2010 seems quite ambitions.  I'd rather see this in a place where it would benefit from its neighbors (northcoast harbor).

I agree... I'm guessing the fact that Jacobs Group owns that property was a major factor.

I'm ambivalent on the location.  All things considered the lakefront is a better spot, but Nautica is in an established entertainment district-- and a specific area of it that needed something besides more strippers.

I agree... I'm guessing the fact that Jacobs Group owns that property was a major factor.

 

I'd guess that this is a sign that he's giving up on putting a casino down there (unless there'd still be enough room for both).

or perhaps he believes that if a casino ever does happen it will happen in the gilbert / fce location so why waste his time... As much as i think it should be at NCH I do like this location, and I think it will be a boon for the businesses in the powerhouse, and could really help push some development in this area... particuarly with a decent cluster of residents at stonebridge.

 

By the way that Marinescape NZ company has done some pretty cool stuff (even in projects between 50k and 90k square feet).  Interesting that this would be their first american location.

 

http://www.marinescape.co.nz/

 

I just looked at the site for the Pittsburgh aquarium and it says it's 40,000 square feet,  and that's a pretty good aquarium.  Plus, ours will be bigger, so that means that we are a better city.

The way I read the article is that this will be inside the Powerhouse building, not new build.  But it's still cool all the same.

Damn this is gonna outshine my 90 gallon in my living room for sure. Its only 8 square feet, and I think its pretty cool.

 

I wonder if it they will push the photoperiod of the fish forward a few hours and server cocktails in there. Normally fish tank lights can only be on max 12 hours, so if they are open in the morning it cant be open at night too.

This is good news....I think.  I wonder what role, if any, the people at clevelandaquarium.org will have in this.  I hope Jacobs will work together with them to make it a world-class facility.

By the looks of their website this seems to be Marinescape's first U.S. Location.

 

http://www.marinescape.co.nz/wb_pg/cont_fla.html

 

If you think about it this could be good for the WaterFront Line. By building a relationship with the GLSC and the RTA, a combined ticket could be offered for entry to all three. With the ample amount of inexpensive parking at the PowerHouse you could start your day there then be shuttled over to the WFL and be on your way to the GLSC. I think it is a creative use for the Powerhouse and could be a much needed boost for that area. I wonder if Jacobs has given up on gambling? I hope not.

 

Also I wonder what they think about this---> http://www.clevelandaquarium.org/index.htm

 

And here is a cool PDF with pictures to the history of the old Cleveland aquarium:

http://www.clevelandaquarium.org/downloads/AquariumHistory_10-2006.pdf

 

 

I love the concept and idea...i just dont know about the powerhouse.  I will trust that they can make it great, it just doesnt seem big enough to house a state of the art aquarium.  They should use some vacant space on Euclid near East 4th...

A little more info:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/06/jacobs_plans_to_bring_aquarium.html

 

Jacobs plans to bring aquarium to Powerhouse in the Flats

Posted by Gabriel Baird/Plain Dealer

June 17, 2009 18:23PM

 

 

Downtown Cleveland could hook residents and tourists with a plan announced Wednesday to put a state-of-the-art aquarium in the Powerhouse in the Flats. Jacobs Investments is teaming up with a New Zealand-based company to put an aquarium on the building's ground floor as soon as next summer.

 

The team has approached the city, county and others about helping to pay for the project, which would have aquatic life from the Cuyahoga River, the Great Lakes and saltwater exhibits...

Oyaski said the team has about half of the project's approximately $9 million cost lined up. Jacobs Investment and Marinescape is looking for the city, state and county to pick up the other half, Oyaski said.

 

Suddenly my optimism for this project has .... dampened.

A couple thoughts on size...  I have been to Pittsburgh aquarium which is 40,000 sf (about 4 years ago).  It was nice and I don't remember it being particuarly or oddly small.  Then again it is situated at the zoo, so it was just one of many exhibits we looked at throughout the day.  Maybe I would have felt differently if I had paid money solely to see the aquarium.  But at any rate it got me thinking, so last night while watching the indians fall apart again, I began to play around a little bit doing google searches of "insert city name" aqarium square footage.  First off, I hope they never use Shedd in an article again.  It's an anomoly, and THE aquarium (I'm the nerd who when they travel wants to immediately see a city's museums and parks, you can learn everything you need to know about a city by doing this ;)), nothing compares to it.  Even London's aquarium which is pretty much the premeir European one, can't compete.  So anyway I do all these various city searches and I'd say on average most US aquariums come in between 80 and 120,000 square feet.  There were certainly some in the 50-60,000 sf range... but not many.

 

Ironically in going through marinscapes website it appears as if a LOT of the aquariums they've done were in the 50,000 sf range... I guess americans obsession with having things bigger comes into play.

 

I'm imagining Jacobs wants to use the powerhouse because he owns it, which makes it much more economically viable.  Even then he's still looking for public subsidies.  I think it could be actually very cool to have an aquarium on the lower floor of that building.  I'd love to see the additional foot traffic, and families in the area.  I think it could really spur development, and be a boon to places like rock bottom and other businesses in the powerhouse (which I'm sure means jacobs could raise rents... shocking how that works).  But before I get excited I wanted to see a plan of how this works, and where they are envisioning expansion.  I think they'll have to if they want to create a "world class" facility as the people at cleveland aquarium say.  A quick look at the site and it almost appears the only way to expand is east where there is a currently a giant deck.  I believe that belongs to the bottom room of windows on the river, so it isn't used all that often.  Can't go south, you run into the nautica/scene/plaind dealer/nautica ampitheatre.  Can't go west, you run into the access road for said ampitheatre (unless you want to build a new road that runs paralell to the viaduct), and due north is the entire front of the building and entryways, so even though there is a sea (no pun intended) of surface parking there, it would seem to be a non starter....

 

Like I said, I'm anxious to see their plans but this hardly seems a slam dunk.  I do really like however some of the aquariums (similar size) that this company has done in europe.

So anyway I do all these various city searches and I'd say on average most US aquariums come in between 80 and 120,000 square feet. There were certainly some in the 50-60,000 sf range... but not many.

 

Ironically in going through marinscapes website it appears as if a LOT of the aquariums they've done were in the 50,000 sf range... I guess americans obsession with having things bigger comes into play.

 

Is it also possible that Marinescapes is able to cram "more aquarium" into a smaller footprint with their "super tube" design or whatever they call it?

I like the european and new zealand influence...i think we need to separate ourselves fro mmost american cities and be unique.

Newport Aquarium on the Kentucky side of Cincinnati is 100,000+.  That was a nice aquarium, and I know plenty of people that made a destination of it.  I just hope we're not settling with this concept.  And please, please leave opportunity to expand, there's so much parking around there.

 

Could you do shows at Nautica like at Sea World?  Or what do you think they had in mind with that?  I like the whole tie in.

As McCleveland noted expanding to the front of the building would not be simple at all.  It would destroy the facade.  East or west are simplest ways that expansion can go. 

^Ok, which one of us is looking at the map sideways? The Nautica stage (or whatever they're calling it now) looks like its east of the building to me.

The building sits on an angle, it's hard to say what's east and west of the building.  It bugs me just as much when people say the Northeast Quadrant of Public Square.  The roads through the square run pretty much at 45 degree angles to the cardinal directions.  If anything, the quadrants are simply North, South, East, and West.

^ Yeah you are right.  It is slightly confusing because I generally consider the Lake to be North although thats not necessarily true.  So to clear things up, expansion could happen toward the river or toward Stonebridge. 

^that's what I was thinking... it's definitely not a true north, but in my post I was refering to north as the building front, south the rear where the pavillion primarily sits, east towards the river, and west towards stonebridge... i'm guessing expansion would probably make the most sense towards stonebridge.  Put in a new access road along the viaduct for the pavillion and then you can move straight out towards the parking lot between the powerhouse and stonebridge.

Oh man, the sins of the past will forever haunt our City.  Reading that first paragraph of the history of the Cleveland Aquarium is absolutely gut wrenching...

 

"By the beginning of the 1940's Lake Erie was becoming too polluted for swimming and so the city closed the bathhouse (future aquarium) and the beach. Then the area occupied by the beach became part of an enormous landfill project which ran for miles along Cleveland's shoreline from downtown eastwards. Most of this landfill was in the form of trash and garbage, thus a motor trip along Lake Shore Drive treated excursioners to the smoke and smells of burning garbage....

 

By the looks of their website this seems to be Marinescape's first U.S. Location.

 

http://www.marinescape.co.nz/wb_pg/cont_fla.html

 

If you think about it this could be good for the WaterFront Line. By building a relationship with the GLSC and the RTA, a combined ticket could be offered for entry to all three. With the ample amount of inexpensive parking at the PowerHouse you could start your day there then be shuttled over to the WFL and be on your way to the GLSC. I think it is a creative use for the Powerhouse and could be a much needed boost for that area. I wonder if Jacobs has given up on gambling? I hope not.

 

Also I wonder what they think about this---> http://www.clevelandaquarium.org/index.htm

 

And here is a cool PDF with pictures to the history of the old Cleveland aquarium:

http://www.clevelandaquarium.org/downloads/AquariumHistory_10-2006.pdf

 

 

Hello, I am new to this forum. I wanted to comment on the aquarium post. First, I want to indicate that for many years, I have worked closely with those who work in such venues and those who know much about the formula for a successful aquarium. that will not end up folding. I have traveled to many and at one time, even owned and operated a custom aquarium design business--on a much smaller scale of course! Now... While I fully support such a cultural institution---And have promoted and advocated it in writing for years....  There are several reasons, known to 'those-in-the-know' on such a subject....why this Jacobs proposal is not a good one--and is being sold to Clevelanders in the image of something longterm, when in reality it may not turn out that way. Now, I feel if I go through the details as to WHY this is not a good proposal for an aquarium, it just may bore some people to total tears and I do not know I should really be posting it on here. But, I do not want to see people getting all excited about something when they have not seen or heard much about what the REAL proposal should be and who should be doing it and why. I am really not at liberty to comment much on this but I do consult with a credible source on a frequent basis. www.clevelandaquarium.org is actually the real deal..and consists of a vision and professional make up that blows the Power House proposal away. Again, there are several valid reasons why this proposal is not very good...and so we should not jump the gun on it if you really want to see what we could have instead. You may contact me offline (make a request) to discuss the reasons. It is essential we get educated on such a project first before we all sing the praises for this current proposal.  Let's just say it may be 'the fast food' version of aquarium design.

Also, does anyone know anything about the status of Up-Town in Cleveland? I wrote the website inquiring about a possible future place in it...no reply. Any information would be rally appreciated!

really, that is!

Btw... Sorry for posting the question in the wrong title. I am getting used to using this site still. Just joined.

Let's just say it may be 'the fast food' version of aquarium design.

 

That's been my fear since I heard about the proposal.  Just was hoping that underwater tunnel idea would offset it's small scale.

Ethestoma Caeruleum (interesting name :)), welcome to the forum.  I don't think any of us here would consider themselves an aquarium expert, so your opionion and participation is greatly appreciated.  A couple of questions:

 

1.  Regardless of the Jacobs plan, what are your thoughts on the marinescape company?

2.  Where would you locate the aquarium and what do you think the appropriate size should be?

 

Welcome again.

McCleveland,

Don't you think a better location would be down by the Hall & Science Center.  The Aquarium will be packaged as a destination for families who will have a member at the convention center for the weekend.  Having all of those in one area would be convenient for adjacency, but lacking in density.

McCleveland,

Don't you think a better location would be down by the Hall & Science Center.  The Aquarium will be packaged as a destination for families who will have a member at the convention center for the weekend.  Having all of those in one area would be convenient for adjacency, but lacking in density.

 

The only thing is, it deals heavily with what property Jacobs owns.

McCleveland,

Don't you think a better location would be down by the Hall & Science Center. The Aquarium will be packaged as a destination for families who will have a member at the convention center for the weekend. Having all of those in one area would be convenient for adjacency, but lacking in density.

 

The only thing is, it deals heavily with what property Jacobs owns.

 

Very true, which is why the city should step in.

Does every city need an aquarium?  Seems like there are a number of high quality aquaria(sp?) within a few hours drive.

Well if the City/ County give them money then they could have a say, but if not then it is up to the private developer as to where they put the aquarium.  If Jacobs and MarineScape feel that they can generate the most revenue, for the least cost, at the Powerhouse then they should build there.  Private developers don't necesssarily have to operate in the publics interest.  Just have to abide by zoning and other general laws.  If taxpayer money is involed though then the site selection can be a much more debated subject (See MM/CC).

I think they should fill in Euclid Avenue with it.  How sweet would a bunch of vacant space on Euclid near east 4th be.  That would increase the foot traffic of that area by about 100 times.  Then people have places to eat before/after.  It would also be unique because you dont see aquariums put into old vacant property