^Thanks for posting the url

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how the 2 REAL aquarium options (non-jacobs) are different from another and why they don't just merge together, outside of my uninformed common sense telling me that its a money game, with one group getting rich off this while the other does not, with both groups being too selfish to split the proceeds half and half

Funny how often common sense is uninformed.

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how the 2 REAL aquarium options (non-jacobs) are different from another and why they don't just merge together, outside of my uninformed common sense telling me that its a money game, with one group getting rich off this while the other does not, with both groups being too selfish to split the proceeds half and half

 

Trust me, CA won't be getting 'rich' off this. I have looked into this but as of yet, not much has been said. I will try and keep posted good info. soon.

^^That is not what I meant to imply. Animals/habitats represented will not be deformed, rather the displays would represent habitats as they might have looked before settlement...OR, they will represent high quality habitats. This, because so often we're used to seeing them in their maligned state. By seeing what they should be, we can see them for what they could be.

 

I can agree with that sentiment, it would be interesting to see how the river valley and lake front looked prior to Moses Cleveland.  Those bulkheads/retaining walls along the river are not exactly au-natural.

Maybe you guys should include a collaboration with CSU or Case in biology studies... kind of like the Rock Hall has that new building on the CSU campus, cross brand the sucker and make it a true learning/lab enviroment... might be easier to get funding from the feds if you include that.  Just an idea.

I think there should be an aquarium on every corner downtown.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/03/ancient_sturgeon_fish_species.html

 

Ancient Sturgeon fish species endangered, but coming back in Great Lakes region

Whatever happened to the proposed aquarium for the West Bank of the Flats?

 

The highly touted tank is still on the drawing board, although a projected summer opening appears as if it will have to be pushed back.

 

The developers said last June that they had collected about half of the total costs, and Cleveland City Council agreed to provide a $2 million loan. The aquarium was projected to attract more than 400,000 visitors a year and boost the city's economy by up to $10 million.

 

City officials say anticipation for the aquarium continues to run high.

 

MORE AT http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/05/an_aquarium_in_the_flats_low-m.html

 

Glad to hear it. I need a new source of seafood.  :-D

Glad to hear it. I need a new source of seafood.  :-D

 

Are you trying to get banned from the aquarium?!?

Glad to hear it. I need a new source of seafood.  ;D

 

LMAO!  Good one!  he he he he

This feels like the most informative Scene article I've read in a while.

 

The Fish That Saved Cleveland

 

Three groups want to build an aquarium, but maybe we can’t afford one

by Anastasia Pantsios

 

In a dark corridor in the Cleveland Metroparks Zoo's Primate, Cat, and Aquatics Building, past the chattering monkeys and the languidly beautiful leopards, gunmetal gray sharks glide back and forth behind a wall of glass.

A gaggle of children stand close to the window as zookeeper Geoff Hall points out the different kinds of sharks inside. A small bleacher is set up on the opposite wall, silent testimony to the fascination the creatures inspire.

 

http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/the-fish-that-saved-cleveland/Content?oid=1974474

A well done article.  Suprisingly in Scene.

It looks like the powerhouse aquarium project is not dead after all, with the disputes coming out on job creation:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/11/jacobs_investments_cut_job_gua.html

I'm not a huge fan of the location. I think a Lake front location fits with the idea of tourism, etc. BUT, hey, I'll take an aquarium just about anywhere downtown at this point! It's been way too long!!

I'm not a huge fan of the location. I think a Lake front location fits with the idea of tourism, etc. BUT, hey, I'll take an aquarium just about anywhere downtown at this point! It's been way too long!!

 

The one in the powerhouse would not be anywhere near the size of the other ones that were proposed.

the aquarium by the science center and rock hall would be choice

For profit aquariums generally have low quality showcase. An aquarium is not an aquarium... one must compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges, but that's all I will say on this as I spoke my peace on this subject a long time ago. The best plan, the right plan...the one that would gain Cleveland great respect and memorable visits with an iconic first class presentation is the one that lags with the current financing. CA...  Still my vote to support in contrast to the "roadside attraction" exhibit in the PH.

 

As one who is quite familiar with what such an exhibit would need in terms of qualified care, and because live animals are involved, I cannot support interests that are more so about profit/exploitation first...animals well being second.  Education and proper husbandry of animals creates a great world class aquarium, on the other hand.

 

If the roadside attraction at the power house winds up failing---then--- because most people do not know what a quality one is versus a non-quality one (and this does not necessarily mean bigger is better), another concern of mine is how such a scenario would taint the public opinions/support about supporting an aquarium in the future, should a better thing come along. CDC peanut gallery folk would have a field day with that and post idiotic posts like... "Weeelll.. we tried an aquarium once and it failed....  WHY waste our tax money on another willy nilly adventure like this??!!!"...  etc..  You know how it goes on there.

 

 

For profit aquariums generally have low quality showcase. An aquarium is not an aquarium... one must compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges, but that's all I will say on this as I spoke my peace on this subject a long time ago. The best plan, the right plan...the one that would gain Cleveland great respect and memorable visits with an iconic first class presentation is the one that lags with the current financing. CA... Still my vote to support in contrast to the "roadside attraction" exhibit in the PH.

 

As one who is quite familiar with what such an exhibit would need in terms of qualified care, and because live animals are involved, I cannot support interests that are more so about profit/exploitation first...animals well being second. Education and proper husbandry of animals creates a great world class aquarium.

 

If the roadside attraction at the power house winds up failing---then--- because most people do not know what a quality one is versus a non-quality one (and this does not necessarily mean bigger is better), another concern of mine is how such a scenario would taint the opinions about supporting an aquarium in the future, should a better thing come along. CDC peanut gallery folk would have a field day with that and post idiotic posts like... "Weeelll.. we tried an aquarium once and it failed.... WHY waste our tax money on another willy nilly adventure like this??!!!"... etc.. You know how it goes on there.

 

 

 

Thats why im against the powerhouse aquarium

BTW, why build a saltwater aquarium along a freshwater river/lake?  I would think "Here's the type of fish you can (or used to be able to) see in Lake Erie/the Cuyahoga River would be a cool feature.  Are freshwater aquariums not as "cool" because the sealife isn't as exotic?

BTW, why build a saltwater aquarium along a freshwater river/lake?  I would think "Here's the type of fish you can (or used to be able to) see in Lake Erie/the Cuyahoga River would be a cool feature.  Are freshwater aquariums not as "cool" because the sealife isn't as exotic?

 

In every aquarium i've been into they have fresh water exhibits.

BTW, why build a saltwater aquarium along a freshwater river/lake? I would think "Here's the type of fish you can (or used to be able to) see in Lake Erie/the Cuyahoga River would be a cool feature. Are freshwater aquariums not as "cool" because the sealife isn't as exotic?

 

In every aquarium i've been into they have fresh water exhibits.

 

Agreed, you can have sections like they all do. I cant imagine a full aquarium of freshwater fish

Definitely have to have both.... but it would be really cool to have some local freshwater exhibits flow into the lake.

If it makes sense to put the aquarium by the lake or river for planning purposes, then fine I guess.  We've already built a lifeless, isolated tourism district on the lake, so maybe best to build off it at this point.  But I really think the need to have the aquarium by the waterfront simply because it has fish exhibits, and fish live in water, is a little weird. 

 

I think an aquarium in the CBD itself would be a lot cooler.  The big surface lot at Euclid Prospect and 4th would be perfect.  Great transit access and the existing underused Gateway parking garages.  Would be great for foot traffic downtown.

 

EDIT: oops, meant Prospect, not Euclid.

If it makes sense to put the aquarium by the lake or river for planning purposes, then fine I guess.  We've already built a lifeless, isolated tourism district on the lake, so maybe best to build off it at this point.  But I really think the need to have the aquarium by the waterfront simply because it has fish exhibits, and fish live in water, is a little weird. 

 

I think an aquarium in the CBD itself would be a lot cooler.  The big surface lot at Euclid and 4th would be perfect.  Great transit access and the existing underused Gateway parking garages.  Would be great for foot traffic downtown.

 

East 4th and Euclid??  :wtf:

 

I know it's just a dream but that spot is not for an aquarium, these few ideas alone make it a no go.

• Passenger loading?
  
• Handicap access?
  
• Future expansion?
  
• Shipping/recieving of large aquatic animals?
  

That space to me screams hotel!

 

 

 

^Sorry, I meant Prospect and 4th.  Plenty of room for loading and access on the Huron frontage.  It's a big lot, there may still be room for a hotel or something else on the part facing Prospect.

I like that idea! Just the other day I was thinking of how that lot could be put to use...

^Sorry, I meant Prospect and 4th.  Plenty of room for loading and access on the Huron frontage.  It's a big lot, there may still be room for a hotel or something else on the part facing Prospect.

 

I don't think that lot is big enough for a world class aquarium.

 

Loading and access on Huron itself?  Come on.  Animal loading?

 

A world class aquarium needs to be in close proximity to similar high volume destination attractions. 

Definitely have to have both.... but it would be really cool to have some local freshwater exhibits flow into the lake.

 

You can come down to the Galleria and I can show you this right now already in existence. Although very small, it is more about example and education...and what can be done on a larger scale. On the larger scale....Yes, the CA would demonstrate how all the aquatic habitats are linked to one another...how they interact and affect one another and showcase many of the unique and lesser known inhabitants.

 

It will demonstrate the less obvious stars of nature too and how their existence is important in relation to our own. Part of the purpose of the educational component of an aquarium is to re-connect humans with the aquatic habitats upon which they depend....and how we affect the whole when we tinker with the parts. The freshwater fauna being a part of the whole system.

 

In Tennessee, for example, the aquarium in Chattanooga represents aquatic habitats that begin 6,000 feet in small headwater streams in the hills/mountains...and progresses right down to the coastal habitats and the seas. It is quite unique.

 

There are three films currently available at the Gardens Under Glass Re-Source Center that are going to be presented that feature the lesser known aquatic life of North America (Ohio being a big part of the temperate fish fauna) and basically explain why these environments deserve just as much attention to conservation as the big and bold.

 

But not to go way off....  Yes, a good aquarium, and CA is a great proposal, would showcase the aquatic diversity in the world, and also adequately represent the ones that are right under our noses that we abuse so much and take for granted. Such is a must. You would be surprised just how "cool" these are right here...that we take so much for granted. Just take a look at the thread I had on "Underwater Urban Ohio" Some title to that nature for a glimpse.

 

 

By the way, here is that thread....  Does not do it justice, but its a start..and Btw... I will be hosting local stream exploration outings and people are welcome to come. http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,19687.0.html

A world class aquarium needs to be in close proximity to similar high volume destination attractions. 

 

For instance, a casino, the Q and Progressive Field?  There's going to be a lot more high volume destination there than there is on the lakefront.

 

And seriously, the site is plenty big for an aquarium unless you want to add on an iMax, rainforest, dolphin show and other stuff that I'm guessing EC isn't really envisioning.

 

I'd also be happy seeing it in the galleria though.  I thought that was a great idea.  Really, I wish all the lakefront stuff were more a part of downtown instead of marooned out there.

 

See I dont think they are marooned as they were not suppose to be. 

 

The connectivity was lost due to many factors.

 

^Yeah, I hear ya- the planners hoped additional development would fill in and that the mall would be extended over tracks someday to tie it all together.  Even so, I think it was a mistake to count on all that to happen. It probably will someday, but still frustrating seeing so much ped traffic generated down there that does nothing for the rest of downtown.

 

Anyway, tough call with new attractions like an aquarium: keep piling them on the lake or put them somewhere that's already part of downtown in a meaningful way?

Not that I am carving in stone locating an aquarium directly on water, as evidence in the advocating I had for the Galleria to adapt to one....However, all the major successful aquariums are built on or near the water...  I would take the Galleria any day over near E.4th. Structural limitations/expenses to re-structure prevent the Galleria options. It is time we explore other ways to spread foot traffic by offering reasons to explore, and limit the polarizing of all the potential foot traffic in these districts such as 4th. Having said that, so, many people act like our downtown is the size of Manhattan in that they act like 2 blocks is a nightmare to have to walk! Here is a photo and description of the Galleria proposal.

 

http://downtowncleveland.org/blog/index.php/2009/09/aquarium-in-galleria/

 

 

How about the huge May Co building?  It's so big, Shamu would get lost in there, and the floors must be able to bear heavy loads.  Fill parts of it with huge, multi-story tanks of water for aquatic habitats.  Then, the piece de resistance:  With huge strips of glass, expose parts of the tanks to the outside on Public Square and Ontario to lure people in for a visit.  Imagine staring up from Public Square and seeing a shark swim by, or even an E. Caeruleum,  lol

How about the huge May Co building?  It's so big, Shamu would get lost in there, and the floors must be able to bear heavy loads.  Fill parts of it with huge, multi-story tanks of water for aquatic habitats.  Then, the piece de resistance:  With huge strips of glass, expose parts of the tanks to the outside on Public Square and Ontario to lure people in for a visit.  Imagine staring up from Public Square and seeing a shark swim by, or even an E. Caeruleum,  lol

 

How about the huge May Co building? It's so big, Shamu would get lost in there, and the floors must be able to bear heavy loads. Fill parts of it with huge, multi-story tanks of water for aquatic habitats. Then, the piece de resistance: With huge strips of glass, expose parts of the tanks to the outside on Public Square and Ontario to lure people in for a visit. Imagine staring up from Public Square and seeing a shark swim by, or even an E. Caeruleum, lol

 

keep in mind 1 gallon of water weighs a little more than 8lbs.  Even moderate sized tanks will have on order of 1000's of gallons.  The structural constraints when designing larger exhibits, you know the ones people like to see, are complicated and more likely than not need to rest on actual footings of the building. 

 

The May Co building already has Tri-C Hospitality program on the first floor.  So if an aquarium were to go tere it would only be the upper floors and I would imagine it would be very, very difficult to make any exhibit of any size on those floors.

^ Good points, I was just trying to think outside the tank :wink:

http://downtown.woio.com/content/aquarium-step-closer-opening

 

not the one i was hoping to hear

Construction to begin next week:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/12/post_410.html

 

Money secured, work to start next week on Flats aquarium

 

Jacobs Entertainment announced Friday that it had secured the $33 million needed for the first phase of a long-discussed aquarium in the Powerhouse on the Flats' west bank. Officials hope to start construction next week and expect the attraction to open later this year.

 

They're also designing an eventual second phase estimated at more than $40 million.

 

I'm glad downtown is getting an aquarium, but I just think the location is so strange. It would fit better on the lakefront, when phase 1 of the lakefront plan is built.

i agree. with the rock hall and science center, The lakefront would be a perfect spot that is easily marketable and visible.  I fear that an aquarium could eventually be forgotten about in the flats.  Not that Im complaining; I think any aquarium is pretty neat

Think this will end up being mostly a school field trip thing.  I was surprised how many schools take Lolly the Trolley field trips; this will probably just reinforce that.

Eh... with the tunnel concept, I think it will draw more than just field trips.  I agree that it SHOULD be on the lake.... but let's not start discussing the issue as if the city can dictate location to private developers.  In the end, aquariums are destinations, not just some place you drop in while walking past.  Shedd is on the fringe of chicago's core and you basically have to take a cab or bus to get there without much else around.  That doesn't stop it from being possibly the best aquarium in the States.

 

The question I have is what phase two will involve.

Eh... with the tunnel concept, I think it will draw more than just field trips. I agree that it SHOULD be on the lake.... but let's not start discussing the issue as if the city can dictate location to private developers. In the end, aquariums are destinations, not just some place you drop in while walking past. Shedd is on the fringe of chicago's core and you basically have to take a cab or bus to get there without much else around. That doesn't stop it from being possibly the best aquarium in the States.

 

The question I have is what phase two will involve.

 

We cant forget that this one will not be even close to the same scale as the national aquariums. I hope this doesnt stop the effort of the other groups trying to bring Cleveland a large, non profit, destination aquarium on the lake.

Eh... with the tunnel concept, I think it will draw more than just field trips. I agree that it SHOULD be on the lake.... but let's not start discussing the issue as if the city can dictate location to private developers. In the end, aquariums are destinations, not just some place you drop in while walking past. Shedd is on the fringe of chicago's core and you basically have to take a cab or bus to get there without much else around. That doesn't stop it from being possibly the best aquarium in the States.

 

The question I have is what phase two will involve.

 

We cant forget that this one will not be even close to the same scale as the national aquariums. I hope this doesnt stop the effort of the other groups trying to bring Cleveland a large, non profit, destination aquarium on the lake.

Agree, wrong size, wrong location.  I want to see it succeed, and am hopeful that Phase II (if ever built) brings a different dimension and larger scale, but right now this just looks like Jacobs being Jacobs...

I would still rather have this than nothing--Downtown Cleveland adds another attraction.

I would still rather have this than nothing--Downtown Cleveland adds another attraction.

 

Agreed.  $33 million investment (with potential for another $40 million) in an area of "downtown" Cleveland (depending how you define downtown, but even if you consider the river the western boundary, it's close) that's not as strong as it could be.  More people working in that area, visiting that area.  Hopefully the aquarium and the Flats East Bank project will generate more interest from other developers in the Flats as a whole and the opportunities that are there.

 

And it's another thing for visitors to do.  It might not be as great of an aquarium as other cities, but I don't know if people go to those cities JUST to visit the aquarium.  It will add another thing to advertise you can see in Cleveland and that's a good thing.

 

My only concern is how it's going to affect the Powerhouse building itself.  I love that old building.  But crowds there are a fraction of what they were in the mid 1990s.  Let's hope Phase 2 and other developments (Stonebridge) do something about those huge surface parking lots over the next few years.

I guess it could be in a worse location though.  If the Flats east bank project is successful, and a pedestrian bridge is built to connect the Flats east bank and west bank, then I could see the aquarium being successful. But still, I would much prefer a location on the lakefront.