Walnut Hills needs 124 market rate units more than it needs an architectural landmark.  These residents may be able to support businesses in an actual landmark down the street, the Paramount building.

 

I am done with calling these new buildings ugly. I want the residents and sidewalk activity they can provide, and I feel that criticizing the architecture of these buildings (provided the basic site plan is "urban" rather than "suburban") is counterproductive. Architecture is subjective, upgrading it requires too many trade offs with things like affordability and density and even expensive buildings can be valued engineered or otherwise miss the mark. For me, it's the odd man out in terms of development goals. Even bland buildings can contribute to street life and urban activity  (check out the people around  U-Square) provided that you just go ahead and build them.

^I understand criticizing some developments' architecture. The Gantry is very ugly. The townhomes on Elm are very bland and don't fit  in with the neighborhood. This one is fine. It's nothing to hold up as the perfect example, but all these armchair architects need to relax a bit and accept that this is a perfectly acceptable infill project. And you can be mad about the demolitions that opened the land, but let's not pretend this is terrible.

^I understand criticizing some developments' architecture. The Gantry is very ugly. The townhomes on Elm are very bland and don't fit  in with the neighborhood. This one is fine. It's nothing to hold up as the perfect example, but all these armchair architects need to relax a bit and accept that this is a perfectly acceptable infill project. And you can be mad about the demolitions that opened the land, but let's not pretend this is terrible.

 

The Elm St. townhomes are what I was alluding to. They are very expensive (800k) yet get criticized all the time. It's like, if something can cost that much and still not satisfy, what chance does a development that's supposed to be affordable have? Is something this elusive a really a reason to hold back development?

 

I think the main thing that makes the townhomes stick out is the repetition. It's something that might be seen on a street in New York but is actually quite rare in OTR where the rooflines vary between neighbors. But, I don't think they "ruin" OTR or even the block that they're on (an absurd notion actually.) who knows, maybe the repetition will be an interesting thing in and of itself for a pedestrian to look at for that span.

 

As far as the Gantry goes, you may think it's ugly but I just think it's representative of the panel style of things that are being built right now. I'd rather have it than not. Also, a person in a historic apartment or house along that stretch should appreciate it too, because maybe their rent was kept in check because it soaks up demand for the neighborhood.

First of all I don't see how why this project is ugly. Especially for a neighborhood who rarely sees massive infill projects like this one. We all know better quality infill comes in as wealth starts flowing into the neighborhood (mt Adams, Hyde park etc)

 

Also as thebillshark mentioned this will do wonders for the business district in walnut hills and add great density.

 

Losing those buildings sucked. But let's remember why that occurred in the first place...constant detoriation of the neighborhood and constant neglect of the historic buildings.

 

This project might be a catalyst for more preservation of the remaining nearby stock and add a great influx of new residents and potentially new businesses. Win win in my book.

I didn't expect much from this development, and I was actually pretty skeptical about development happening at this site at all. The architecture isn't great, but it's not awful either. My one complaint with it is the superblock and monotony of the mass and height. A little variation in height would probably help break the building up a bit.

 

It's exciting to see infill of this scale going into Walnut Hills. Definitely a good sign not just for the neighborhood, but Cincinnati as a whole. Walnut Hills, Evanston, and Madisonville are the 3 east side neighborhoods that have struggled most over the years. All three are starting to see upticks in development as the established east side neighborhoods of Hyde Park, Mt. Lookout, and Columbia Tusculum are getting to be either built out or out of the price range for most people in the region. Even Oakley is approaching that level at this point. Having a stable and vibrant Walnut Hills is key to growing Cincinnati as a whole.

 

Walnut Hills also has the potential to offer something kind of unique among Cincinnati neighborhoods. It's pretty intensely urban, and its business district is probably among the biggest of all the neighborhoods, even with all the demolitions.

Looks like the good folks at CAGIS have already loaded the 3 proposed buildings into the property layer:

 

So it looks like we are only losing two heavily modified row houses and maybe one other building. The rest of the site appears to be empty.

So it looks like we are only losing two heavily modified row houses and maybe one other building. The rest of the site appears to be empty.

 

Aside from the Kenton St. scene, these two buildings are responsible for most of the trouble in the area and have been for the past 10 years.  Wayne Ave. is incredibly sleazy thanks to these people. 

The architecture is kind of just whatever (the building along McMillan looks like it won't be offensive which is most important to me at this stage in Walnut Hill's redevelopment) but the site plan is nice. Street level retail along McMillan, built to the street, fills the site properly, etc. The parking will be behind the buildings I'm assuming which is also nice. Decent first major infill project to kick things off.

So is this developer getting the land for $1 from the city or what amount, exactly?  It seems awfully convenient that the pesky vacant buildings on McMillan were allowed to be demolished to create this perfect spot for a cardboard apartment complex. 

Exactly the kind of garbage I expected.  One of the most beautiful historic business districts in the city gets torn down and replaced by this (&%#(#!

 

Look at this block on Street View and go back to a few years ago before the demolitions occurred. There were maybe only two buildings lost on this block that would've been worth saving. In Future Walnut Hills, hopefully developers will be doing more 3CDC style developments where the historic buildings are incorporated into a bigger development, with new construction filling the vacant lots in between. But in Current Walnut Hills that's not very likely to happen.

So is this developer getting the land for $1 from the city or what amount, exactly?  It seems awfully convenient that the pesky vacant buildings on McMillan were allowed to be demolished to create this perfect spot for a cardboard apartment complex.

 

I don't understand your point. The buildings here were demolished to allow for a development like this to occur here. It's not some conspiracy you have to think was "awfully convenient". It was literally the plan. They just needed to line up a developer. The WHRF was pursuing a project like this for years while rehabbing other buildings and partnering with Model Group.

There is no name for this project yet, but neighborhood leaders are spearheading a two-block redevelopment effort that will tear down a bunch of historic structures to make way for a mixed-use infill project that will includes housing targeted at future workers at Horseshoe Casino Cincinnati.

 

There is no official name for this project yet, but there are more details here:

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_news/walnut-hills-targets-casino-employees-for-new-housing-

 

Ink shared this picture of the block in question in the Demolition Watch Thread:

 

The original vision for this project is literally the first post of this entire thread.

This is really good for Walnut Hills.  I agree it sucks they tore down those amazing historic buildings but from what it sounds like, it was nearly impossible to save them.  If they could have held off for another 5 years or whatever when the market got to the point it was now, maybe they could have done a 3CDC style and save the buildings they could and work it into the development.

 

Walnut Hills needs a ton of work and this is just the start, hoping this is a catalyst for more development on the success of this project, to get more moving in the business district with the historic buildings and also all the infill that needs to occur as well.

In addition to this project, Model is about to start work on Paramount Square at Peebles Corner. There are some other projects on Gilbert Ave near the 5-points that should start soon too.

 

Also the buildings across from the Firehouse are pretty close to finishing. In about 2 years the McMillian St. corridor will look very different than it does today.

I've thought this for a long time but never posted I don't think, but that intersection of Gilbert and E. McMillan really needs a complete overhaul for Pedestrian Experience.  I am talking like a full blown lighted pedestrian cross walk system all four ways.  It just seems a mess right now.  The traffic flow is also kind of messed up, it's almost impossible to turn left onto Gilbert traveling West on E. McMillan, probably the same for turning left onto Gilbert traveling East on E. McMillan.  They need to get all that worked out with the traffic engineers at some point soon and these new developments need to be the catalyst for that as it won't work well adding all these new residents without some improvements to that intersection

I don't think it was impossible to save them. I've seen far worse restored, for a local cincy example check out a few of the newer project in OTR.

 

If they had to, the one building they should have kept was the one  with the paramount vodka sign.

I agree. If I was in charge, I would have at least worked to save the two buildings closest to the corner. But that's behind us now. That shouldn't impact our opinions on the new construction being put in, which I think is more than satisfactory. It might not be perfect, but let's not pretend it's terrible. It treats McMillan with respect, and adds density to a corner of the neighborhood that has been neglected for far too long.

So is this developer getting the land for $1 from the city or what amount, exactly?  It seems awfully convenient that the pesky vacant buildings on McMillan were allowed to be demolished to create this perfect spot for a cardboard apartment complex.

 

I don't understand your point. The buildings here were demolished to allow for a development like this to occur here. It's not some conspiracy you have to think was "awfully convenient". It was literally the plan. They just needed to line up a developer. The WHRF was pursuing a project like this for years while rehabbing other buildings and partnering with Model Group.

 

There was an earlier plan, circa-2010, that was going to preserve and redevelop the buildings (predates this thread).  I know because I am friends with someone who worked on it who quit in disgust when the decision was made to fire up the bulldozers. 

 

FFWD to 2017...the city still owns the property.  I saw stakes and what looks like a pile driver on the site this past weekend, so construction might be imminent, but the city still owns the parcels, as of today.  It hasn't been publicized what the public is getting in exchange for this giveaway to a developer.  By contrast, U Square does have affordable housing units that it did in exchange for a property tax break and free parking garages (and no doubt very cheap land).  Unfortunately, as we all know, Towne (owned by a very wealthy family) got away with building something that looks amazingly cheap. 

 

The same is in store for McMillan St.  More cardboard U Square/Gantry construction for a project in a high-profile location.  No affordable housing has been announced.  There is no requirement for high quality materials, at the very least for the McMillan St. frontage.  The buildings facing Wayne St. will no doubt take all of their cues from the ridiculous Gantry outbuildings along Knowlton St. that look like they were lifted from a third-rate Gulf Coast beach town. 

 

Don't let these developers trick you into thinking they're victims.  They've made their fortunes with other people's money -- often the public's. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have split off the posts about Cincinnati's general attitude towards historic preservation and moved that conversation over here. Please continue it over there. Thanks!

EXCLUSIVE: $55 million redevelopment of Anthem site adds new partner

 

 

The planned redevelopment of the Anthem campus in East Walnut Hills has a new development partner.

 

The Fortus Group, a Fort Wayne, Ind.-based real estate development and investment firm, has joined Al Neyer and Vandercar Holdings to partner in redeveloping the nearly 8-acre site at 1351 William Howard Taft Road. Stephen Dronen, director of development for Fortus, said the team is planning a multiphase mixed-use development. The first phase, which will focus on residential, is estimated to be a $55 million project.

 

“There are very few infill development sites of this size in great neighborhoods like East Walnut Hills,” Dronen told me. “We want to make the most efficient use of the land.”

 

While it’s early and plans are still subject to change, the first phase at the Anthem site is expected to be two residential buildings with more than 300 apartments and structured parking. The existing office buildings would be demolished. Anthem moved from this site to a new, 80,000-square-foot building at Oakley Station. The first phase would be located on the northern part of the site at the Woodburn and Taft intersection...

If all goes as planned, demolition of the former Anthem office buildings would start in the fall with construction of the first phase kicking off in spring 2018. Dronen expects this would be a 20- to 24-month construction project, so leasing for the apartments could begin by fall 2019.

Awesome, was wondering when we would hear something more on this.

So it looks like two sizable residential buildings built up to the street, a parking structure on a less critical corner (still built up to the street, but unfortunately not wrapped by residential units), a plaza of some sort, and then future phases.

 

It looks pretty decent. I was nervous with Vandercar being a part of this since they don't understand urban site planning at all. But this looks like it'll fill the site properly. Obviously it's all mega-blocky as was expected, but hopefully the architecture helps that somewhat.

 

I wonder if that giant garage is enough for all phases. It looks pretty massive. It would be great if all parking was handled in one structure and that was it.

 

East Walnut Hills needs development like this and it looks like this will add a ton of life to the connection to Walnut Hills business district. Hopefully this will then spur development West on McMillan to fill in all those holes left from demolitions and crappy fast food joints.

^That solid white in the render is maybe half of what that total site is, if that.

 

There is a large parking Lot for Anthem across the street to the left (west) on the render, south of there, and also across the street Woodburn to the right (east) on the vendor.

 

I wonder if anyone who isn't tech dumb like me could put out a google map aerial with this?

 

Also, I don't understand on the render, what is the more or less "see through" area of the render on the parking lot due south of the solid white on the site?  Does that mean anything?  The solid white looks to me the whole project area they are looking at for this first phase?

 

Lastly, some of the homes across the street from this development are in really bad shape but I am not sure if they are occupied or not.  They are beautiful houses.  I hope they can get the 2 way street going here I think that would make a big difference, right now it is a high speed cut through to UC Hospitals.  I know this because I drive through here every single day to work.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1272501,-84.4817226,3a,75y,19.45h,97.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSiS2tqvpDDYtJzdy6YVrwg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

The solid white definitely looks like it's the scope of Phase I and then greyed out, see through areas are future phases. That's a pretty common method of showing a phase's scope within a larger project that will come to fruition fully at a later date.

 

I'm curious what the random little parking lots across from the main site will become. I really hope they don't stay parking lots and they become additional smaller infill buildings over time.

 

Again though, cautiously optimistic with Vandercar here. I feel like having a sea of surface parking is what gets their rocks off.

OK thanks, I just took a stroll on Google Maps and noticed that actually the semi-large surface lot to the west of the site is actually for St. Ursula Academy so there won't be any changes there.  The only other Lot seperate from the one to the south for the next phase is the Lot east of there across the street from Woodburn, which is definitely a big enough site for some high quality infill of some sort. 

City will pay millions to help with TriHealth’s HQ move

 

TriHealth Inc. will get cash from the city of Cincinnati to help with the relocation of its headquarters from Avondale to Walnut Hills.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/05/24/city-will-pay-millions-to-help-in-trihealth-s-hq.html

Former Baldwin piano factory transformed into urban loft apartments

 

It has been nearly three years since Neyer Properties purchased the Baldwin Complex along Interstate 71 in Walnut Hills. Now, the massive redevelopment of the Grand Baldwin building into 190 loft-style apartments is nearly complete.

 

Neyer Properties partnered with Casto to redevelop the building at 655 Eden Park Drive. Originally built in the early 1920s as the home of the Baldwin Co., this building housed 2,000 employees who made 11,000 pianos in the first five years of operation. After Baldwin left in 1961, it remained vacant until 1987, when Corporex Cos. redeveloped it into office space.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/13/former-baldwin-piano-factory-transformed-into.html

Trying not to be too harsh or negative but...what a disappointing array of finish selections. Not a single element relates to the building's design or history. These are just your run of the mill apartments with factory windows. Which are great, but I really wish they had done more to make these industrial lofts. Carpeting? No. Those fiberglass insert tub/shower combos? No. Those cabinets? No. Light fixtures, wall finishes, flooring, etc. are all generic. Sort of a shame. I'm super happy this building will be occupied and residential but they really missed an opportunity.

Maybe they are anticipating an eventual conversion to condos at which time they'll throw all this stuff out on the curb. 

The question is, how many people really want to live in an industrial setting?  I assume some market research found that tall ceilings and big windows sell, but too much concrete and steel doesn't.  New residents are going to be scrambling for window treatments in this place. 

I don't know, there was a multi-year waiting list at American Can which is much more industrial than these. Not saying it has to go full concrete and steel, but there isn't a single new element that relates to either the architecture or original use of the building which is a shame.

Trying not to be too harsh or negative but...what a disappointing array of finish selections. Not a single element relates to the building's design or history. These are just your run of the mill apartments with factory windows. Which are great, but I really wish they had done more to make these industrial lofts. Carpeting? No. Those fiberglass insert tub/shower combos? No. Those cabinets? No. Light fixtures, wall finishes, flooring, etc. are all generic. Sort of a shame. I'm super happy this building will be occupied and residential but they really missed an opportunity.

 

The R/E industry is convinced that Millenials don't care about detail. Dull and plain is fine since "they aren't home much and just stream Netflix or game when they are at home". Dull and plain is also cheap, so if they tell people dull and plain is in then it's in.

Dull and plain is also cheap, so if they tell people dull and plain is in then it's in.

 

Or to be more specific, doing something that's not dull and plain would be nice or desirable, but it won't net back an increase in rent enough to cover the additional construction cost.  Plus, with stagnant or declining wages, while construction remains pretty expensive, not to mention being in a not too desirable location, I'm not surprised something had to give. 

I thought they looked pretty good but holy cow is it just me or are those prices super high for a 1 bedroom?.. $1200

 

It's attractive because it is across the street from Eden Park which is incredible, but it isn't really walkable to bars or restaurants unless you count Mt. Adams but that would be a decent half mile to 3/4 mile.  Walnut Hills proper doesn't have much yet in terms of a business district that would convince me to want to walk up there, though I know it is improving it is still a really long ways off.

I thought they looked pretty good but holy cow is it just me or are those prices super high for a 1 bedroom?.. $1200

 

It's attractive because it is across the street from Eden Park which is incredible, but it isn't really walkable to bars or restaurants unless you count Mt. Adams but that would be a decent half mile to 3/4 mile.  Walnut Hills proper doesn't have much yet in terms of a business district that would convince me to want to walk up there, though I know it is improving it is still a really long ways off.

 

Well there is a bar in the lobby of the Spring Hill Suites...go party with some Cubs fans. 

 

If these were $850 I'd for sure go for it but $1200 is like treason for rent... what young people can afford that?  Kind of blows my mind, of course I forget that not everyone has student loans

You could probably sneak in and get free breakfast every morning too.

The rent doesn't seem out of line at all.  $1/square foot/month still seems to be about typical for run of the mill apartments in ok neighborhoods, but that's been creeping up over the years so you can be paying that in more questionable buildings/neighborhoods now.  $1.25/sf gets you an older courtyard type apartment in Hyde Park.  So $1.50-1.80/sf sounds pretty reasonable for brand new units in a building with on-site staff and which (I assume) includes garage parking. 

If these were $850 I'd for sure go for it but $1200 is like treason for rent... what young people can afford that?  Kind of blows my mind, of course I forget that not everyone has student loans

 

They don't BUY anything. All money to rent and into mouth.

If these were $850 I'd for sure go for it but $1200 is like treason for rent... what young people can afford that?  Kind of blows my mind, of course I forget that not everyone has student loans

 

They don't BUY anything. All money to rent and into mouth.

 

How many young workers in Cincinnati make around 60K-70K/year?  That's the real question, 1200/mo is pretty steep for Cincy but if the amenities justify it then I could see someone making that kind of salary affording it.

^ I think that is fair if said young workers don't have student loans.  I thtink $400 - $500 a month takes a lot of people off that market unless their parents paid for their college or they had scholarships, etc. and aren't actively paying off loans

When in Cincy I was making 37k a year (which was basically me being taken wild advantage of, but that's another story) and was paying around $900/month on housing. Before choosing to leave for NYC I talked with a couple firms, both offering between 54-58k. I am lucky in that I received some sizable scholarships and my parents were able to foot the entirety of the remaining tuition during my 7 years of college. $1,200/month would have been extremely easy for me to do at that point. And even easier if I didn't have a car which was combined around $450/month even for a car that was only $16k to begin with.

 

I know the cost of living is different (although not quite as much as some would lead you to believe) but here in NYC I pay $1,100/month for my apartment and make $64,100. I could easily afford a few hundred more a month in rent and still live comfortably while continuing to save and invest like I do. Most of my peers here and back in Cincinnati were making between 55-80k which put $1,200/month in a position of ease. And that's not even getting into duel income scenarios where that would be a drop in the bucket.

If these were $850 I'd for sure go for it but $1200 is like treason for rent... what young people can afford that?  Kind of blows my mind, of course I forget that not everyone has student loans

 

They don't BUY anything. All money to rent and into mouth.

 

How many young workers in Cincinnati make around 60K-70K/year?  That's the real question, 1200/mo is pretty steep for Cincy but if the amenities justify it then I could see someone making that kind of salary affording it.

 

You can buy a 4-family apartment building in more than half of Cincinnati's 52 neighborhoods for significantly less than $1200/mo. 

 

 

If these were $850 I'd for sure go for it but $1200 is like treason for rent... what young people can afford that?  Kind of blows my mind, of course I forget that not everyone has student loans

 

They don't BUY anything. All money to rent and into mouth.

 

How many young workers in Cincinnati make around 60K-70K/year?  That's the real question, 1200/mo is pretty steep for Cincy but if the amenities justify it then I could see someone making that kind of salary affording it.

 

You can buy a 4-family apartment building in more than half of Cincinnati's 52 neighborhoods for significantly less than $1200/mo. 

 

 

 

Yeah and I'm not so sure what's on offer is worth 1200/mo.  Free parking, and many other perks would have to be included to justify the cost (maybe).  Its a good location and one of the few areas in Cincinnati where you could easily hop on a bus with great frequency to get downtown in a short amount of time as its a 5 min walk to reading road which has the most frequent bus service in the city. (though noone making that amount of money in Cincy would do it :/).

This 4-unit on W. Clifton could have a $1200 mortgage depending on your down payment and terms of the loan:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1541429/2143-W-Clifton-Ave-Clifton-OH-45219

 

So a $1,200 payment plus $1,500+ in income from the three units you aren't living in. 

 

 

-property taxes - insurance - upkeep costs + landlord responsibilities. Not exactly an equivalent conversation here.

-property taxes - insurance - upkeep costs + landlord responsibilities. Not exactly an equivalent conversation here.

 

 

Sorry I should have better explained -- you could buy a $200k 4-family building in a decent part of town a 5 minute walk from Findlay Market, leave 3 of the units empty, and pay about the same overall housing expenses as renting in the newer apartment developments around town.  That's how absurdly cheap Cincinnati is almost 10 years after the housing crash. 

 

 

I've always dreamed of buying one of those 4-unit apartment buildings in Cincinnati and converting it into a single residence ... and you could probably do that in Cincinnati for such an absurdly cheap amount of money compared to buying a regular house in most other American cities ...