December 24, 201212 yr Cleveland has lost too many buildings for parking. http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/cleavelands-warehouse-district-1960s-vs-t But we gained the Pinnacle! Whohoo!! If the Columbia could have been saved instead of the Stanley, I'm sure there wouldn't be too many folks complaining. The Columbia was the real loss with the new casino opening, IMO. Again, how many preservationsts were screaming for a plan for the Stanley before the casino opened? How many years went by while we watched the building decay?
December 24, 201212 yr But we gained the Pinnacle! Whohoo!! Except that Pinnacle was built atop a parking deck. If the Columbia could have been saved instead of the Stanley, I'm sure there wouldn't be too many folks complaining. The Columbia was the real loss with the new casino opening, IMO. Again, how many preservationsts were screaming for a plan for the Stanley before the casino opened? How many years went by while we watched the building decay? Some of us did, but since preservationists in Cleveland don't have the numbers, aren't organized enough and lack funding. So there will be more of these losses, especially in the middle ranges of "sacred." Buildings like the Broadway Mills and Independent Towel Supply Co. (both lost to the Inner Belt in 2010) seem to fall into the low range of sacred. But there are some sacred cows in Cleveland that could be untouchable, like the May Company or the Old Stone Church are among them. It seems the Columbia and Stanley buildings fell into the middle range. I think we need tougher laws and people willing to enforce them before we start winning those battles. But this city is too hungry right now to do anything out of fear it will scare off employers and jobs. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 24, 201212 yr When deciding who to blame, my first question is: had the building actually decayed beyond reasonable repair? If it had, then the recent politics with gilbert don't really matter. The demo guy said it was unstable and about to fall, the gateway guy said he couldn't find anyone to occupy the space. Granted these people are coming from places where you would expect these answers, but I don't disregard them completely. I think the root of the issue is these slum lords who allow the buildings to get this way. There needs to be more pressure on these types of property owners.
December 24, 201212 yr I think the root of the issue is these slum lords who allow the buildings to get this way. There needs to be more pressure on these types of property owners. That's certainly the root of the issue. There ought to be a "landmarks caretaker" law. If a building is declared a landmark or is in an historic district and is considered by the building department to be in a state of disrepair, then a city property tax kicks in because this is the first indication the building will become a source of added expense to the city in terms of blight, crime, safety, code enforcement and a potential demolition expense to the city. The property owner can appeal and have X days, weeks or months to bring the building up to code. If the owner does not, then the added tax kicks in. If the owner fails to pay the tax, then the city becomes the lien-holder of first priority and can then take legal action to seize the property from the owner. If the owner still does not bring the property up to code, then the city takes the property and adds it to the land bank for sale. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 28, 201212 yr I think the root of the issue is these slum lords who allow the buildings to get this way. There needs to be more pressure on these types of property owners. That's certainly the root of the issue. There ought to be a "landmarks caretaker" law. If a building is declared a landmark or is in an historic district and is considered by the building department to be in a state of disrepair, then a city property tax kicks in because this is the first indication the building will become a source of added expense to the city in terms of blight, crime, safety, code enforcement and a potential demolition expense to the city. The property owner can appeal and have X days, weeks or months to bring the building up to code. If the owner does not, then the added tax kicks in. If the owner fails to pay the tax, then the city becomes the lien-holder of first priority and can then take legal action to seize the property from the owner. If the owner still does not bring the property up to code, then the city takes the property and adds it to the land bank for sale. Well said and i completely second that.
December 28, 201212 yr Until I saw the hidden infrastructure of this building (Stanley Block), I didn't realize how special it was. I spent a long time watching the demo and it is etched in my mind pretty firmly. What I was watching was the complete and utter destruction one of the last remnants of old Cleveland. This area was chock full of buildings like this 100 years ago. Buildings that were built by craftsmen and each component was crafted by an artisan, from the bricks, to timbers, to the iron work. This was the last of them... I found myself driving around downtown Cleveland and scouring google maps for something similar. This was it folks, nothing else left of the hundreds of buildings from this era that was in this shape. Yes, we still have the Hilliard Building and the Central Exchange from the 1850's, but they have been completely and utterly stripped and re manufactured. The Stanley Block was frozen in time 50 years ago and made a very interesting specimen to me... Well, all of my friends say, it should have been demo'd. I disagree. It was rock solid and should have been preserved.
December 28, 201212 yr Until I saw the hidden infrastructure of this building (Stanley Block), I didn't realize how special it was. I spent a long time watching the demo and it is etched in my mind pretty firmly. What I was watching was the complete and utter destruction one of the last remnants of old Cleveland. This area was chock full of buildings like this 100 years ago. Buildings that were built by craftsmen and each component was crafted by an artisan, from the bricks, to timbers, to the iron work. This was the last of them... I found myself driving around downtown Cleveland and scouring google maps for something similar. This was it folks, nothing else left of the hundreds of buildings from this era that was in this shape. Yes, we still have the Hilliard Building and the Central Exchange from the 1850's, but they have been completely and utterly stripped and re manufactured. The Stanley Block was frozen in time 50 years ago and made a very interesting specimen to me... Well, all of my friends say, it should have been demo'd. I disagree. It was rock solid and should have been preserved. What he said!
January 2, 201312 yr How many historic buildings in Detroit have been razed by Gilbert companies? Actually, he's one of the biggest property owners in Detroit and has saved a considerable number of buildings from demolition. Historic properties, at that. It's very well documented. More photos of the demolition: http://photos.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/2012/12/demolition_starts_at_the_stanl_1.html
January 5, 201312 yr One of the things that struck me most about the former Stanley block was how thick and strong the exterior brick walls were... As I watched this amazing block being destroyed, it seemed that the walls were very similar to ancient ruins I've seen in European cities...Decide for your self after looking at these photos...
January 5, 201312 yr Sometimes I really hate this country. Who do we think we are to declare that a pre-fab, erector-set parking garage is more important than a building that pre-dates many nations? After my parents are gone, I'll have much less reason to stay in this nation that claims to love itself yet loves to erase its identity. Whether I'll have the balls to move remains to be seen. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 6, 201312 yr Is this for casino parking? Sort of, but it's a lot more complicated. The building was neglected for decades, and in recent years any decisions about redevelopment or normal demo were paralyzed by a dispute between ownership groups (one of which was controlled by the casino). It's actually the city demoing the property now because of its condition (ostensibly), bot the owners. I know this seemed like a minor building to a lot of folks, but it was actually a pretty significant specimen of stone-fronted 19th century commercial architecture for Cleveland. Much more refined, IMHO, than the brick Victorian stuff that survives. I'm extremely bummed to see it come down.
January 7, 201312 yr If Cleveland did not learn the lesson that it should not tear down buildings for parking from its decades of decline, and rebirths of threatened areas like Playhouse Square, did the city learn anything?
January 7, 201312 yr (re: Stanley Block) Ok, one more comment and then I'm letting this one go. I had to stop by one more time early this Sunday morning. The crushed building has been scooped away, exposing the basement, which to me, is always one of the most interesting parts of an old house/building. The sight reminded me so much of some old photos I'd seen of when the old Forest City house was demo'd for the Cleveland Union Terminal project. I presume they'll leave the old sandstone and brick basement walls in place and just fill in the basement with fill dirt. That will make for an interesting archeological dig at some point in the future... The smell of pine that is always so strong at Cleveland demo sites, was very strong this morning - there was still some leftover timbers crushed in the wet snow. I grabbed some pictures. Then I made sure the cops on the corner were not watching me and I jumped the barricades and grabbed an in tact brick to add to my collection of bricks from recently demo's Cleveland landmarks. Of all the bricks I've collected, this one is the heaviest and most solid. RIP Stanley Block.
January 9, 201312 yr Interesting back wall on the right side of the basement. Its imperfections (none of the blocks line up in any kind of order) compared to the rest of the foundation tells me this may have been part of an even older and smaller structure that occupied this site. I wonder if that was the case, and if so, what was that building? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 14, 201312 yr Very sad and disappointing Historic Euclid Avenue church will be razed, after vote by Cleveland Landmarks Commission Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer on February 14, 2013 at 4:10 PM, updated February 14, 2013 at 4:55 PM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A historic church at the edge of the Cleveland Clinic's main campus will be razed, after a Thursday vote by the Cleveland Landmarks Commission paved the way for demolition. The commission's decision ends a two-year quest by the Euclid Avenue Church of God to knock down its former home, which sits empty at 8601 Euclid Ave. http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/02/historic_euclid_avenue_church.html#incart_river_default
February 14, 201312 yr Does the city have any programs that help maintain or find new uses for landmark buildings? I know there are federal and state tax credits, but what about the city?
February 14, 201312 yr It's almost always the same bullcrap story- demolition by neglect because these organizations fail to maintain their property, and the city governments fail to enforce their own laws and allows them to reach this poiint of no return. These groups magically always have enough money to flee to the burbs and obtain new digs!! Isn't that amazing? Proof they could have been maintaining existing infrastructure all along. The final nail in the coffin for these properties is their astronomically high listing prices for the unwanted real estate. Of course we are going to end up with this "wipe the slate clean" mentality that begets a new, mediocre structure, if we are lucky to escape the land becoming a parking lot. Pathetic observation about our throw-away society... and another reason I can't keep a straight face around "religious" people and their "time tested" beliefs. They can't even keep their own church buildings from being demoed. Why should I not think the same about their religious dogma?
February 15, 201312 yr It's almost always the same bullcrap story- demolition by neglect because these organizations fail to maintain their property, and the city governments fail to enforce their own laws and allows them to reach this poiint of no return. These groups magically always have enough money to flee to the burbs and obtain new digs!! Isn't that amazing? Proof they could have been maintaining existing infrastructure all along. The final nail in the coffin for these properties is their astronomically high listing prices for the unwanted real estate. Of course we are going to end up with this "wipe the slate clean" mentality that begets a new, mediocre structure, if we are lucky to escape the land becoming a parking lot. Pathetic observation about our throw-away society... and another reason I can't keep a straight face around "religious" people and their "time tested" beliefs. They can't even keep their own church buildings from being demoed. Why should I not think the same about their religious dogma? Well said
February 15, 201312 yr Seems like Thomas Coffey is the only one who deserves to be on the commission. From the article... "Thomas Coffey, an attorney and the sole Landmarks Commission member to vote against the demolition request, said the decision points to deeper, systemic problems with city ordinances meant to protect landmarks and force property owners to maintain their buildings. He views the Euclid Avenue Church of God as a case of demolition by neglect. "If the city would start enforcing its own ordinance requiring owners to take care of their property, the entire city would benefit," he said in an interview, adding "Nobody could have convinced me that voting for that demolition was the right thing to do."" And from an article months ago about the Columbia Building... Which he voted against... "Commissioner Thomas Coffey questioned the developer's representatives at length about the history of the Columbia Building and whether they considered putting the parking operation in the May Company garage across Prospect. Coffey said the current proposal was the "cheap alternative." "They have all the big guns out to support this," Coffey said. "This building does not have to come down.""
February 15, 201312 yr I get that sinking feeling in my stomach every time I see this thread pop-up on the "new post" list. This news is why.
February 15, 201312 yr The landmarks commission is a total joke. Their is always a convenient excuse to demolish history. Their is no learning from the past poor decisions.
February 15, 201312 yr Very sad and disappointing Historic Euclid Avenue church will be razed, after vote by Cleveland Landmarks Commission Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer on February 14, 2013 at 4:10 PM, updated February 14, 2013 at 4:55 PM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A historic church at the edge of the Cleveland Clinic's main campus will be razed, after a Thursday vote by the Cleveland Landmarks Commission paved the way for demolition. The commission's decision ends a two-year quest by the Euclid Avenue Church of God to knock down its former home, which sits empty at 8601 Euclid Ave. http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/02/historic_euclid_avenue_church.html#incart_river_default Gee, if you check the Landmarks Commission page on the City Planning website, you'd never know that a meeting was even scheduled, let alone what was on their agenda. The agenda page hasn't been updated since before the Jan. 24 meeting.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 15, 201312 yr Anybody that thinks this city isn't still corrupt as shit, I've got this bridge to sell you. It's got this wonderful view overlooking some surface parking.
February 15, 201312 yr Bob Brown's legacy will be of how much was destroyed, rather than what was built. Im not angry anymore, just sad.
February 16, 201312 yr I wasn't suggesting that some under-handedness was happening. In fact, I'm aware that CPC is pretty overwhelmed with work right now and under-staffed. But dammit, I want the meeting agendas!! :whip: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 18, 201312 yr Meanwhile, the old Maple Heights High School's in the process of being torn down. Only the gym (a separate building that's still one of NE Ohio's best facilities) and a couple other outbuildings will remain.
July 29, 201311 yr Anyone know who Aeon Financial, LLC is? They seem to own a lot of condemned properties on the East Side.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/bbs/agenda/2013/AGENDA07312013.pdf "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 30, 201311 yr Anyone know who Aeon Financial, LLC is? They seem to own a lot of condemned properties on the East Side.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/bbs/agenda/2013/AGENDA07312013.pdf CapitalSource Bank? http://realneo.us/content/aeon-financial-aka-capitalsource-bank-property-tax-foreclosure-thieves-does-not-pay-their-ow
July 30, 201311 yr Anyone know who Aeon Financial, LLC is? They seem to own a lot of condemned properties on the East Side.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/bbs/agenda/2013/AGENDA07312013.pdf Tax lien investors. The PD had a story a couple years back about tax lien foreclosures focusing on them: http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2011/10/surprise_in_survey_of_tax-lien_homes_is_that_there_are_few_surprises.html
August 4, 201311 yr Anyone know what happened at CPC regarding this proposed demolition?? It appears it will be demolished for parking adorned with some greenspace, ie: attempting to put lipstick on a pig..... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/08022013/index.php City Planning Commission Agenda for August 2, 2013 EUCLID CORRIDOR DESIGN REVIEW 1. EC2013-017 – International Operating Engineer's Building Proposed Demolition Project Address: 3600 Euclid Avenue Project Representative: TBD "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 4, 201311 yr I saw that earlier. Made me mad. Love to see that TOD on our new BRT line! Will they add this to their dollar figures for growth along the route? :P
August 4, 201311 yr The first time I read KJP's post, I didn't react much, but looking again at the site plan, this could be a big effing deal, and the aganda description may be horribly disingenuous: the proposed site plan also shows the demolition of the Stockbridge apartments, one of the few remaining apartment houses on Euclid (http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index.ssf/2011/04/the_stockbridge_in_cleveland_h.html). I'm hoping this is just a mistake, that the dimwit engineer who drew up that pathetic site plan for $200 and a pat on the back just guessed the property boundary wrong.
August 4, 201311 yr ^ I think that building has actually been/being renovated. My guess now is that they want to demolish those buildings for parking for residents. Edit: That actually makes no sense. The building footprint will be used for greenspace, not any additional parking. This should be denied IMO(probably wont be). We cant keep cutting holes on an already fractured Euclid Avenue. Especially historic buildings.
August 7, 201311 yr http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2013/08082013/index.php Cleveland Landmarks Commission CITY HALL - ROOM 514 - 9:00 AM AGENDA - August 8, 2013 Little Italy Historic District Club Corbo 12312 Mayfield Road Demolition Planned to replace it is "street plaza" but this is difficult to see...... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 7, 201311 yr If they're going to knock that building down, I hope they're going to repurpose all that brick.
August 7, 201311 yr ^^I am also having difficulty seeing this. How does a private property owner benefit from a "street plaza" (unless he owns surrounding property and even then?)
August 7, 201311 yr Actually, my difficulty was in actually being able to see the graphic presentation of the street plaza. :) But, yes, I don't understand how this makes financial sense, either. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 7, 201311 yr It doesn't. This likely paves the way (pun!) for future surface parking which, once the building is gone, all the local restaurateurs will clamor for. I hope it gets denied.
August 7, 201311 yr Wow I loved that courteyard there Ruthie and Mo's (Somer's Diner) in better days Sayonara
September 12, 201311 yr If it's on the East Side, it's going to get prematurely demolished due to neglect. Several hundred years from now, future Clevelanders are going to wonder why nothing built on the East Side before 1950 is still standing..... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2013/09122013/index.php CLEVELAND LANDMARKS COMMISSION AGENDA - September 12, 2013 Emmanuel Episcopal Church Church of the Transfiguration 8614 Euclid Avenue Demolition A few pictures of many posted at the link above...... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 17, 201311 yr And they all fall down.... http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/09192013/index.php City Planning Commission Agenda for September 20, 2013 EUCLID CORRIDOR DESIGN REVIEW 1. EC2013-017 - International Operating Engineer's Building Proposed Demolition Project Address: 3600 Euclid Avenue Project Representative: William Fadel, Esq. 2. EC2013-038 - China King demolition Project Address: 2880 Carnegie Avenue Project Representatives: Dan Newbert, Ohio Comp Hildi Hamrick, Independence Excavating "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 17, 201311 yr i dont think anyone is going to miss that old China King, but the building on Euclid is another story. Sure its not historical, but at least its meets the sidewalk!!
September 17, 201311 yr I emailed the CPC about 3600 Euclid about a month ago when it first appeared on the agenda for demolition. I was curious how they voted. It was tabled until this week's agenda so they could actually walk through the property to see if it was as bad reported. Just looking at the photos it seems like there is nothing but cosmetic issues with the building. I hope the CPC denies the motion.
September 18, 201311 yr When was the last time the CPC denied a demolition request? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 18, 201311 yr When was the last time the CPC denied a demolition request? The Herold Building on Prospect?
September 18, 201311 yr Stanley Block was denied, but then the city went to court to force it to be leveled because of safety. I worry that it is a precedent, and all an owner will have to do to level a landmarked building is to let it rot until the point it is a public safety issue. Then they can go to court and ask for the same outcome that fell the Stanley Block. Then it won't ever matter what the CPC says, the owner can just go to court like the owners of the Herold Building are doing.
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