^^exactly, and it "can" work in cleveland with high subsidies provided you are in the right environment.  Take 668.  $70m project but over $21m came in local and state subsidies.  And the rates for units were STILL $800-1,100 / month for 1 brs.  It works there because there is a market that will pay that, but there are also a ton of ammenities in that location with the sports venues, restaurants, night life, at least some level of retail, etc.  Would anyone be willing to pay $800-1,100 / month to live in this location surrounded by mostly nothing?  I am guessing, as are the developers, and the banks that the answer is no.  The only solution would be to build an "insta neighborhood" around it that would probably be on the $3-500m scale.  Anyone think there is a market for that right now?  Its an awful situation.

McCleve-

 

You are sadly spot on, and I think only Detroit suffered/suffers more than Cleveburg. There are sooo many micro and macro-level factors that have led us here.  I hope we can do better than what the last 60 yrs. have resulted in.

 

Please!  There plenty of cities in pain.  The grass is not greener.

McCleve-

 

You are sadly spot on, and I think only Detroit suffered/suffers more than Cleveburg. There are sooo many micro and macro-level factors that have led us here. I hope we can do better than what the last 60 yrs. have resulted in.

 

Please! There plenty of cities in pain. The grass is not greener.

 

Unfortunately so. :(

Many good comments.... as for a benefactor,  maybe we can all write to Percy Ross. Or did he retire or die?

 

The Eton and Rugby buildings.  Tragic.

 

Tragic is the only word for this.

 

 

 

 

Indeed.

Any reason why the Euclid Ave Church of God (8601 Euclid Ave) is slated for demolition??

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/photo/12092010/index.php

 

Are we really going to lose two historic churches on the same stretch of Euclid Ave in less than one year??

 

 

I saw that last night...  I wasnt sure if it meant the actual church or not, but no ohther details were given and its the only thing that is pictured. 

Wow, that's a bummer.  The interior looks awesome.  I wonder if the demo is for a new church facility or if someone bought them out.

I just saw the church demo on the Cleveland Landmarks agenda:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/photo/12092010/index.php

 

They had better not demo this. As sad as it was Eton and Rugby buildings get demolished, those buildings were neglected for a long time. That's not the case with the Church of God. I don't understand why this church needs to be demo'd when we have so much vacant land along Euclid already.

 

 

That church is beautiful. Oh well, I guess it's better to let some people in suits approve the demo rather than God coincidentally blow it up.

I have no idea what is happening with that church, but just because something shows up on landmarks agenda as a demolition doesn't mean it's going to be demolished. It just means someone wants to demolish it.

It would be shocking to lose this beautiful building.

 

I just saw the church demo on the Cleveland Landmarks agenda:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/photo/12092010/index.php

 

They had better not demo this. As sad as it was Eton and Rugby buildings get demolished, those buildings were neglected for a long time. That's not the case with the Church of God. I don't understand why this church needs to be demo'd when we have so much vacant land along Euclid already.

 

 

The church has an active website at http://euclidavecog.org/index.html  Looks like a big enough congregation from the photos.

 

I used the "contact me" to ask for clarification of the agenda item.  We'll see if I get a response.

 

By the way, I find it interesting how they've chosen to protect their church van from theft...  :|

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=8601+euclid+avenue&sll=41.448498,-82.018562&sspn=0.081447,0.208569&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=8601+Euclid+Ave,+Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio+44106&ll=41.504067,-81.627101&spn=0,0.001629&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=41.504148,-81.627101&panoid=zlDKKXneZhkzCnEA5PNghQ&cbp=12,105.91,,0,8.56

 

The bitter irony.

 

The Eton and Rugby buildings are gone, kaput...

 

 

 

 

While across the street this lives on...

 

 

 

 

A demolition permit has been requested for this...

 

 

 

 

While just across the street, no such luck...

 

 

 

For those who are concerned about the church on Euclid - look at who owns 8615 Euclid (the property immediately east).

Of course, it's gone then.

I don't think the clinic's knocking down its "Foundation House" anytime soon- they spent a lot of money on it just a few years ago.  But I guess they could always use a nice sliver parking next door.  Which would be really lame.

 

Thanks, Clueless for that set of depressingly striking juxtapositions.

Oh man, just noticed that the last remnants of the old school (pre-food terminal) wholesale food area on East 40th St were demoed.  You can still see the buildings in this view: http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/?org=aj#5003/0.727=sse:1&1.6002=q:Cleveland,+OH:nelat:42.4327451446371:nelong:-70.5768432616172:swlat:42.0892580273629:swlong:-71.4351501463828:nosp:0:adj:0/5872/style=auto&lat=qxf6z8&lon=85vk9c&alt=171.205124&z=20&h=87.944135&pid=5874

 

Anyone have any photos?  I always meant to snap some but didn't know how little time I had...

 

 

Now I know the economy is picking up. The pace of demolitions is increasing....

I don't think the clinic's knocking down its "Foundation House" anytime soon- they spent a lot of money on it just a few years ago.  But I guess they could always use a nice sliver parking next door.  Which would be really lame.

-- Straphanger

 

 

....And yet we praise the clinic so much in this city. If they are in any way involved in that church demo request......Letting them have so much power and become the stewards of preserving history in this area/neighborhood is like putting Dracula in charge of a blood bank.

 

 

Who would be an appropriate body to send letters advocating against the demolition at the planning commission? Is this Bob Brown or he is county, right?

So over in the MM/CC thread the link to the article on the WKYC website about the project also mentions the "demolition at the Ford Plant's Casting Operation". I've done numerous searches and can't seem to identify which buildings that this involves. Does anyone know if this involves any structures that can be seen from Rt. 237 or is this all internal stuff?

 

Anyone know about this demo, and why it was withdrawn??

___________

 

DOWNTOWN/FLATS REGION DESIGN REVIEW

 

PROJECT WITHDRAWN

DF 2010-043:  1246 River Road, Ward 3

Ontario Stone, Demolition of Industrial Building.

Project Representatives:  Independence Excavating; Dave Jeras, Ontario Stone

Complete structural demolition of a vacant 10,000 s.f. former powerhouse building near the Cuyahoga River.  (Tabled by Planning Commission on 11/19/10)

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2011/02182011/index.php

What's this?? Why is this building being demolished? It still looks structurally sound....

 

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=3204+Clark+Avenue,+cleveland+ohio&aq=&sll=41.460932,-81.636196&sspn=0.004406,0.006899&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=3204+Clark+Ave,+Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio+44109&ll=41.469856,-81.704657&spn=0.008811,0.013797&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.469854,-81.704573&panoid=bceg29bwa9XWlf1X1cRwEw&cbp=12,6.88,,0,5.8

 

 

Near West Design Review District

Agenda

(8:30 a.m., Wednesday, February 23rd, 2011)

Dollar Bank, 3115 West 25th Street

 

8:30 a.m. 1. NW 2011-001:  Demolition of Former Commercial Building ©

3204 Clark Avenue

Project Representatives – Wally Zadeh, Property Owner;  Andy Kiss, Andy’s

Empire Construction & Demolition

Building Demolition

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2011/pdf/NW02232011.pdf

Oh noooo! Its not official yet but the discussion has returned

 

And I hope we dont get even more parking lots out of this casino

 

Stanley Block, one of downtown Cleveland's oldest buildings, being threatened by parking-lot owner

 

CLEVELAND -- A battle over historic preservation is brewing in downtown Cleveland, putting a little-noticed, stone-faced building in the spotlight.

 

Built in the 1870s, the Stanley Block on Ontario Street is one of the oldest buildings in the center city.

Now it is being threatened with demolition by parking lot owner Lou Frangos, whose companies have been buying up properties across from the site of a planned $350 million casino project at Tower City.

 

The tug-of-war over the Stanley Block -- between one group of owners that hopes to preserve it and another that wants it razed -- comes as real estate speculators and developers are betting on big-budget projects downtown. One of those projects is the casino, a joint venture of Rock Gaming and Caesars Entertainment Corp.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/03/stanley_block_one_of_downtown.html

Ugh.  It's like a mini Justice Center episode.  I guess the city should have established a no demo zone around the building before the ballot initiative was approved.

THIS ARTICLE HAS ME ABSOLUTELY SEEING RED.

 

We have discussed these developments before in a small way previously on this board (at the time of the purchased) in the casino thread, I believe, with our naive little fingers crossed.  This is a good article which goes into much detail and it is not pretty.  I get the feeling Frangos wants to now demo not just the Stanley Block but almost everything he owns between Ontario and E. 4th for a large parking garage (and probably surface for the short term).  If this is what the casino is giving us then stick it in Streetsboro.  The city and Gateway has to prevent this at all cost. 

 

This is something that is going to motivate my lazy butt and I will find out what I can do on a personal level, no matter how small, to oppose this. 

 

Can we all protest somehow? What can we do?

 

And do you think the city would actually let him demolish the Colombia Building?

 

I would really love to see life be brought back to this section of Prospect from Ontario to East 4th. And It would be nice to see the big lot across from East 4th filled in with a building on the prospect half of it. You can build your giant parking garage on the Huron side of the street for all I care

I find it odd that Michelle Jarboe keeps referring to the one building as "a former bookstore".  Isn't that the building that was, until Frangos bought it, a law firm?  Former bookstore gives the image of a vacant, rundown storefront.  Or am I thinking of the wrong building?

^The building on the corner of Ontario and Prospect was a Catholic bookstore for years and then occupied by the Stafford law firm when the store went out of business a few years ago.  Staffords sold it for 5 million (I think they bought it for like 1 million) after owning it for just a few years which, knowing the Staffords, clearly demonstrates that there is no God.

Can we all protest somehow? What can we do?

 

And do you think the city would actually let him demolish the Colombia Building?

 

I would really love to see life be brought back to this section of Prospect from Ontario to East 4th. And It would be nice to see the big lot across from East 4th filled in with a building on the prospect half of it. You can build your giant parking garage on the Huron side of the street for all I care

 

?

 

And cant he just put the damn parking garage south of the one thats already over there

Like there isnt enough parking over there in the first place.

 

To see the full map click http://tinyurl.com/48swgee  I didnt do all the parking spots but I did plenty

 

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=41.498903,-81.690989&spn=0.015396,0.038538&t=k&z=15&msid=214307218223262897576.00049d983696a86820756

This demolition absolutely cannot happen. That is a VITAL piece of urban fabric that will connect 2 important pieces of nightlife. This will only be surface parking, please somebody tell me they went to the public hearing and made NOISE! I only wish I could go!

 

how come it seems like all the people who own property like this are COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT?

I'm really concerned about this as well. Adding a parking structure there serves to further isolate the casino from the rest of downtown, reducing the likelihood that you'd have someone from the casino utilize other parts of downtown. You're creating the casino into an island from the perspective of someone coming in from the highways.

The Casino could be used for good if it would be able to revitalize the buildings in question. As well as liven up the prospect side of the May Company building and the the 3 buildings where family sportswear is. It would be an excellent connection to East 4th as well as the rest of downtown

Robert Keiser

[email protected]

 

Don Petit

[email protected]

 

 

^McCleveland...what are their positions with the city.  I would like to tailor my e mails.  Thanks.

all relevant info here:

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/cpc.html

I've never really written something like this, so what exactly should I say?

I'm not necessarily married to the specific building, but the idea of using that lot for surface parking makes me sick...  Ontario out to Huron and Prospect out to East 4th radiating from the Prospect exit of the casino is going to be a monstrously popular area.  A small surface parking lot caddy-corner from the casino?!?!?  Me-thinks they are hoping VIPs will pay big bucks for a spot.  Me-also-thinks this can't be allowed to happen.  Mr. Mayor?  Mr. Cimperman?  GET IN THERE.

 

 

In this picture, Orange represents potential infill, and purple for rehab/replacements.  This street (leading to the Q and Casino Phase 2) should be heavily developed, not the opposite.

the first orange square to the right is not possible to infill.. its actually just a small setback in the building.

 

I sent an email with something like:

 

I am out of town and cannot attend the town hall meeting about the Stanley Block, but I wanted to share my concern.

 

As an architect, I have an understanding of what makes cities great. Cleveland is my home, and what it has built has always marveled me. However, The Stanley Block is now under threats to be demolished. Protecting this cities structures is a very high priority, because it is the only thing that seperates downtown from Strongsville, Westlake, or Florida.

 

It sickens me that people can simply buy up these structures, crush what makes our city great, and then put a surface parking lot on it. Only you have the power to stop this from happening! And you MUST stop it. The site is an extremely important gateway between the temporary casino, and the E4th entertainment district.

 

Downtown is hardly at a loss for parking as it is.

 

The structures must be rennovated, and the block can become a very active and high profile piece of entertainment. Dan Gilbert wanted the casino to help the urban fabric. This parking would tear it to shreds.

 

I URGE you, as the people in charge of preserving our city, to keep Frangos from destroying it!

 

Please let me know what you are doing to keep this from happening, and if I can do anything to help. I am sure you are fully aware of the destructive properties of surface parking lots. Show Frangos that Cleveland isn't a city he can push around, and keep what fabric we have left in-tact!

 

(and no, im not an architect YET.. but it helps to introduce some kind of qualification. Ive sent professional sounding ones that have and havent been answered, as well as ranty ones that have and havent been answered. Seems to me its just hoping your email is noticed. Also, send it from more than one email account if you have them.. I try to when i'm super mad. I dont know if that helps or hurts, but I figure it helps? hmm..)

 

Ok, letter sent. Thanks for the info, Mayor.

We are a diverse group on this forum, with often completely opposite views.

 

However, we can make all agree, and unite to make difference as one voice to oppose the further destruction of our cities.

 

Whether it's here or Cincy or Columbus or wherever, we can channel our energies toward doing something...anything that could help. I will surely be writing to the planning dept. and thanks McCleveland for the links.

 

We must oppose loud and ignorant majority of people like this who are so dumb they cannot even spell "raze" correctly:

 

Cleveland.com.  March 03, 2011 at 1:09PM

"Either have those buildings renovated and occupied or RAISE! RAISE! RAISE!!"

-Bobo the Clown44114

Email sent!

 

(and no, im not an architect YET.. but it helps to introduce some kind of qualification. Ive sent professional sounding ones that have and havent been answered, as well as ranty ones that have and havent been answered. Seems to me its just hoping your email is noticed. Also, send it from more than one email account if you have them.. I try to when i'm super mad. I dont know if that helps or hurts, but I figure it helps? hmm..)

 

 

 

Very nice letter Scav..

 

I can send one from the National Trust in Washington..  Hmmm

 

Done.. 

Looks like they may also be getting one from the President of the National Trust for Historic Preservation on this particular issue and the general tear down mentality there....  :clap:

I also emailed Robert Brown  the director of the City Planning Commission:

 

[email protected]

WOOO! Awesome.  :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

If it comes down to it, I will break out the ole tent and do some camping!  :speech:

We NEED to save this building. And doesnt this @$sh0le own enough parking lots downtown!

 

http://www.thefrangosgroup.com/Properties-in-Cleveland-Ohio.html#1380

 

Edit: 18 parking lots and garages

Preservationists push to save the Stanley Block building near downtown Cleveland casino site

 

CLEVELAND -- Demolition of the Stanley Block building in downtown Cleveland would be a tragedy, a handful of speakers told the Cleveland Landmarks Commission on Thursday.

 

Commission members conducted a public hearing about the four-story building, on Ontario Street, after members of the ownership group and the Historic Gateway Neighborhood Corp. asked that it be considered a city landmark. That designation would add layers of scrutiny to any request to change or raze the building.

 

"It's our strong feeling that it would be a significant loss for downtown Cleveland to not have this building," said Marie-Rose Andriadi, chairwoman of the Historic Resources Committee at the Cleveland chapter of the American Institute of Architects.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/03/preservationists_push_to_save.html

 

Already a response from Mr. Brown:

 

Dear Mr. Mxxxxxx:

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us on this matter.  As you know, Cleveland has a rich collection of historic buildings and districts throughout the city and has worked hard and successfully to preserve and re-use these historically and architecturally significant buildings.  We recognize that our historic architecture is a key competitive advantage for Cleveland as we strive to retain and attract residents and businesses.  I can ensure you that we will strictly assess the merits of any new development proposed on this block versus the prospects for preserving the two remaining historically significant buildings.

 

Robert N. Brown, Director

Cleveland City Planning Commission

601 Lakeside Avenue, Cleveland, OH 44114

[email protected]