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Ohio one of the "least free" states?

Guest surfohio
Guest surfohio
in Ohio Politics

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Incredible.  My first post, and my username says it all...

But what does it say about the topic of this thread?

Must be an anagram

But what does it say about the topic of this thread?

 

Ohio seems like a dream come true after escaping the stranglehold of NY.    In the article, Ohio is shown to be as restricted as New York.  I don't see that to be true.  There are certainly problems here in Ohio, but people seem to believe they can fix the problems by working together and speaking up. 

 

Something the Ohioans are doing is working.  The cost of living is incredibly better than that of NY.  Public school education surpasses that of NY schools.  There is work to be found here in Ohio even if you don't know anyone to help you get your foot in the door (and despite this lousy economy across the entire nation).  State fees (licenses, titles, etc) are more reasonable in Ohio.  I could go on for a very long time showing how Ohio is so much more free than New York.  It all seems to come down to the fact that "common sense" is expected of the people in Ohio.  In NY, the entire state operates on the concept that its civilians have absolutely no sense whatsoever.  Honestly, they may be right when you consider how much the people of NY allows the State Government to trample over them at every turn.  As crowded as New York City is, I would not be surprised to learn there were 10 times the number of laws as there are people in NY. 

 

 

Thank you for the perspective, and welcome to Ohio!

 

In general, the more densly populated an area is, the more laws there are. One might get a nuisance citation for letting a dog run loose or operating a barbecue grill in the city, while the guy in the country can shoot a dog or build a bonfire without an issue. So, New York City would be expected to be more oppressive than any Ohio city. The flip side is that cities also have better city services such as utilities, garbage collection, fire protection, etc., that are not even available in the country.

 

The article, though, didn't address cities; it addressed states.

^ you may be on to something, but the criteria of the study seems to address wider issues than rural/urban differences too.

 

Interesting quote from the study...

 

In our index, conservative states have generally done better than liberal states, but moderately conservative states have done best of all.

 

Previous research has shown that, as of 2007, Alabama and Mississippi were the most conservative states in the country, while New York and New Jersey were the most liberal. In our index Alabama and Mississippi are slightly better than average, while New York and New Jersey are at the bottom. 

 

The problem is that the cultural values of liberal governments seem on balance to require more regulation of individual behavior than do the cultural values of conservative governments. While liberal states are freer than conservative states on marijuana and same-sex partnership policies, when it comes to gun owners, home schoolers, motorists, or smokers, liberal states are nanny states, while conservative states are more tolerant.

 

It is questionable whether we ought to attribute this relative freedom in conservative states to any philosophical respect for freedom inherent in contemporary political conservatism, or rather to the fact that conservative positions on

cultural issues tend to require less regulation of individual behavior.

 

As we have already seen, extremely conservative governments do not appear to afford any more freedom overall than do moderate, centrist governments.

 

 

You make an excellent point, Eighth and State, that the article addressed states, not cities.

 

My apologies for not giving a more clear picture of my point of view.  The first 20 years of my life was spent in and around Brooklyn, NY ("the city").  The next twenty years were spent in Orange and Sullivan counties (the lesser known regions of NY State).  Neither of the two counties are as populated or developed as most of the Cincinnati region.  To be fair, Orange county developed quite a bit after 9/11, but it still has much to strive toward as far as infrastructure is concerned.

 

In NYC, I knew my neighbors and they knew me.  Garbage collection was the pits, but I could hop a bus or train to get nearly anywhere in the city at anytime.  Opportunity abounds if you are willing to wade through the muck, both figuratively and literally. 

 

In Orange and Sullivan county, if you don't drive, you die.  There is no way to make a living without fighting your way through both back roads and dense traffic.  There is garbage collection in some of the larger cities (similar to Blue Ash in size).  The rest of the area must hire a garbage company or take the trash to the dump themselves.  You can imagine the outcome?  By the way, most of the region is considered to be rural.  Cow tipping, hay making rural.  It's close enough to New York City that many people are willing to commute for work.  I am not one who considers a 1 1/2 hour to 2 hour commute twice a day to be worth my sanity.  Especially when you consider winter conditions and lousy drivers can quickly add another hour to your commute.

 

The most restrictive places I lived were in Sullivan County.  Backwoods politics are a nightmare of their own.  People are being destroyed socially and economically by laws that may or may not be on the books.  The judges are as crooked as the prosecutors and sheriff departments.  If you want to score some drugs, call the local politicians.  They'll "hook you up".  (Check out the Mayor of Monticello New York if you doubt me.) If you want to build an addition on your home, be certain to have plenty of extra cash on hand to pave the way.  Cash, not check or charge.  Can't have anything that might leave a paper trail back there in Sullivan County.  Be certain that if you don't play the game (which changes on a daily basis), you will be buried alive in fines, legal fees, and any other costs they may drum up.  Many good people have been destroyed by the so-called legal and government systems back there in Sullivan County.  The lucky ones escape and never look back.

 

Across the entire state, people are being taxed to death.  Not just income tax, but by the 'hidden' taxes as well.  If you're not paying through the nose for gasoline, heating fuel, electricity or medical services; you are paying ridiculous fees for renewing your drivers license, obtaining a title for your vehicle, renewing your vehicle registration & plates, filing for a business license, buying a fishing license... the list is endless!  Everything costs more because NY State taxes everything from top to bottom.  Even milk is more expensive, yet the region I lived in was filled with dairy farms.

 

Because I owned a home in the back woods of Sullivan County, I had the honor of paying property taxes, school taxes, town taxes and library tax.  For this, we had a public school and a tiny little library.  Our roads were iced over in winter and flooding in the spring.  They would become parking lots in the summer when the county's main source of income would arrive.... tourists.  If you needed an ambulance, the fire department or the police at any time of the year; you could be waiting for an hour to even hear their sirens.  Granted, the ambulance and fire departments responded a bit better than the police, but they are all volunteers interested in their communities.  The police, of course, are paid.  There ends the extent of the services I received in NY for my taxes.  Taxes that could easily equal half or more of any person's income in that area.

 

Job opportunities were non-existent unless you want to work in the low end of the service industry (as in cleaning homes, lawn care, baby sitting for social services clients, etc).  If you wanted to work in the government agencies, you needed to be related to someone already on the inside or willing to play some incredibly dirty politics.  Even retail was pathetic.  The "big shopping" in Sullivan County consists of Wal-Mart and a handful of struggling small businesses that rarely make it beyond one tourist season.

 

The school my children attended in NY had half the population of the school they attend here in Ohio.  The NY school's budget is twice that of the budget my children's school in Ohio enjoys.  Yet, the quality of education, the activities, the learning opportunities and the entire atmosphere of the educational community here in Ohio absolutely blows away anything the NY school attempted.  Maybe, if NY schools were faced with the reality of educational choice that we have here in Ohio, they might strive to perform better than they do.  As it is, NY schools answer to no one but the State, and it shows.

 

I don't like Duke Energy any more than anyone else here in Ohio.  Yet, I have to admit that my gas & electric costs are half as much as they were back in NY.  What's really incredible is that my NY home was as green as green could be without going off grid.  The place I'm living in now is an energy nightmare, but still works out to be so much less costly than it would be in NY.

 

What amazes me the most out here in Ohio is the incredible amount of services provided to the community for so few dollars.  The number of businesses and private organizations offering services in the region is astounding.  Everywhere I turn I see a food or clothing drive.  What's more, these donated items are actually making their way out to the community members in need without a bunch of red tape blocking the way.  I have health insurance for my family, but was shocked to hear "no charge" the first time I filled an antibiotic prescription for my son at Meijers pharmacy.  I can't tell you the number of times I skipped filling my own prescriptions when I was young and dumb back in NY. 

 

Even the government run social services are above average from what I can see.  Back in NY, because there is no public transportation, I would often find myself driving one person or another to the social services building.  I would always need to make a day of the trip.  The person applying would wait for hours to have their application and documentation reviewed by one of the workers.  If they were lucky, they might only need to find one or two more documents to satisfy the worker determining the validity of the documentation.  If not, the applicant would need to start all over again.  By the time the process was said and done, the applicant would have made at least two trips to the administration building for interviews and still wait 30 to 60 days for an answer on their case.  Most of the time, they would be denied and need to appeal before finally winning their case for less than $100 in food stamps or medical assistance.

 

I'm sure you could imagine the hesitation I felt about wasting so much time again for someone out here in Ohio recently.  Not wanting to seem like the snobby New Yorker, I agreed to drive them out to the Clermont County social service office.  I took the day off from work, and made arrangements for my son in case I wasn't home in time.  I was only slightly surprised when they came out to the car less than an hour after I had dropped them off.  The real shock came in when they told me their case had been approved.  The entire process from applying to approval took less than one hour.  No additional appointments, no additional documentation, no waiting forever and a day just to learn you must start the process all over again. 

 

The most basic of needs are being met here in Ohio.  People are free to move about, find work, improve their education and participate in making their communities better for themselves and those around them.  There are ample opportunities for people to join together in their efforts.  No one is giving up the idea of making improvements in any aspect of life here because the red tape is too thick or expensive to fight their way through.  For the most part, local government is still working for the people instead of working the people over.

 

I watch the news, I read the newspaper, I read the blogs and I listen to people around me.  As happy as I am to be here in Ohio instead of New York, I am not blind to the problems we face here.  There is always room for improvement.  Joining this message board was an attempt to further open my eyes to what needs to be done to make Ohio better.  Finding out I moved here just in time to see the area fall the way of NY would be more than disappointing.  Seeing the article that started this thread made my heart jump into my throat at first.  I'm glad that my initial comment was questioned.  I'm glad that Eighth and State pointed out my failing to show from where I am looking at the things addressed in the article.

 

I know that my writing skills are lacking, but hopefully I've managed to show that the article should not have considered Ohio to be even half as restrictive as New York.  I think the article does indicate that Ohio has work to do if we are to avoid becoming as limiting as New York has become.  There is definitely hope here in Ohio though.  Already, a few family members have made the leap and followed me to Ohio.  All for the same reason... opportunity to work toward a better life without being buried alive by red tape, corruption and excessive taxation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^ Interesting and insightful post, thanks for sharing. 

 

On the social services front, I have had two friends from Columbus, one a doctor that used to work in hospitals in Columbus (and lives in Chicago now) and one just visited last weekend who is a top lawyer in Columbus now.  Both have said that one of the big reasons that Columbus has a such a large immigrant population is that certain groups have learned how to really work the system.  They both stated that the Ohio public assistance programs are lax in enforcement and think that Ohio is naive to what is going on and needs to play catch up in that realm.  There are so many loopholes and ways to trick the system that people who are well organized, know how to work the system and are robbing it blind.  The doctor said generally well off people were getting away with completely free healthcare on Ohio's dime.  The lawyer told me about tricks involving (legally) giving away your children to relatives to collect double payments (when the children still live with the parents).  These are not lifelong Ohioans or even US born residents....they are a well organized immigrant population that know Ohio is an easy target (from what I gathered).  I am not trying to demonize any groups of people, and I was shocked to hear this.  By the way, both of these people are ultra liberal and progressive and I respect their opinion.  They are not tea baggers, and gladly support paying taxes for the good of Ohio and it's less than well off residents.

 

They both said Ohio is behind the curve and is trying to play catch up to stop the fraud that is going on and know there is legislation in the works.  So Ohio may just become more "less free" than it is now in the near future.

 

  Wow NY Mom, that must be one of the longest posts on this board. Thanks for sharing, and welcome to the forum.

 

 

 

Interesting quote from the study...

 

The problem is that the cultural values of liberal governments seem on balance to require more regulation of individual behavior than do the cultural values of conservative governments. While liberal states are freer than conservative states on marijuana and same-sex partnership policies, when it comes to gun owners, home schoolers, motorists, or smokers, liberal states are nanny states, while conservative states are more tolerant.

 

Funny how the authors chose to use the word 'nanny state' when talking about guns, motorists, and smoking but not when talking about marijuana use and gay rights.  Nannies tell you what to do in your house/bedroom....... such as, don't smoke that weed in there or don't engage in sodomy.  Police tell you what to do in public...... such as, don't speed, don't drive drunk, don't fire that gun in downtown, and don't smoke on that playground.

 

Interesting quote from the study...

 

The problem is that the cultural values of liberal governments seem on balance to require more regulation of individual behavior than do the cultural values of conservative governments. While liberal states are freer than conservative states on marijuana and same-sex partnership policies, when it comes to gun owners, home schoolers, motorists, or smokers, liberal states are nanny states, while conservative states are more tolerant.

 

Funny how the authors chose to use the word 'nanny state' when talking about guns, motorists, and smoking but not when talking about marijuana use and gay rights.  Nannies tell you what to do in your house/bedroom....... such as, don't smoke that weed in there or don't engage in sodomy.  Police tell you what to do in public...... such as, don't speed, don't drive drunk, don't fire that gun in downtown, and don't smoke on that playground.

 

Yeah definitely a bias. At least in their choice of language. And not to rekindle this issue, but I swear they may have been funded by the tobacco lobby lol. They weighed smoking bans way too high on their scale. I disagree with their logic that "smoking regs are far more restrictive" than alcohol regs. The rules on alcohol are much more prevalent and intrusive.

 

The most restrictive places I lived were in Sullivan County.  Backwoods politics are a nightmare of their own.  People are being destroyed socially and economically by laws that may or may not be on the books.  The judges are as crooked as the prosecutors and sheriff departments. 

 

 

Reading this post, you could just as well be talking about New Jersey.

 

My home town by the ocean was a delicate balance of organized crime, back woods hick power-brokers and apathetic voters.

 

It could be a case study on how a place gets destroyed by corruption and lack of coherent planning.

I'm guessing NY's passing of gay marriage will get them out of last place, and put NJ right where it belongs at # 50.

Lawmakers back off raising alcohol level allowed in beer

" Kentucky, Indiana and Michigan do not set a maximum alcohol limit on beer. West Virginia, like Ohio, sets a ceiling of 12 percent."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/business/lawmakers-back-off-raising-alcohol-level-allowed-in-beer-1195904.html

Our smaller, less intrusive, business friendly legislature strikes again

 

So stupid. Way to cave in to special interests Ohio lawmakers!!

How free is a state where you can't get anywhere without a car and you're nearly killed if you ride a bike due to lack of appropriate infrastructure. What are we supposed to do? Ride a horse? Nope, not allowed.

 

Someone on here has a link to a website about conservatives and transit. The site lists three misconceptions:

1. The current automobile dominance is a free-market outcome;

2. Trains and transit are subsidized while highways pay for themselves; and

3. Where public transportation is necessary, buses are always better than trains.

 

Those who love "freedom" should take note.

How free is a state where you can't get anywhere without a car and you're nearly killed if you ride a bike due to lack of appropriate infrastructure. What are we supposed to do? Ride a horse? Nope, not allowed.

 

Someone on here has a link to a website about conservatives and transit. The site lists three misconceptions:

1. The current automobile dominance is a free-market outcome;

2. Trains and transit are subsidized while highways pay for themselves; and

3. Where public transportation is necessary, buses are always better than trains.

 

Those who love "freedom" should take note.

 

I think your point about good transit shows that this study is not necessarily a quality of life measure.

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