I'll admit that I am not overly familiar with Cleveland, but from my perspective as an outsider, I tend to think that GREATER Cleveland is pretty nice, but the actual city for the most part is pretty run down and abandoned. From what I've seen here, Shaker Square appears to be the nicest neighborhood in Cleveland city limits, and it is on the fringe of the city.  Downtown, while it has pockets of activity, is so large that it makes it harder to appear to be a cohesive "nice downtown". Even some of the more marquee neighborhoods in Cleveland (Ohio City, Tremont, Little Italy) are sort of shady if you venture too far away from the main drag. 

 

I think if Cleveland had large solid block of nice, safe, and relatively upscale neighborhoods, it would definitely change the perception of the city.  When you think of upscale and nice areas of cities, it definitely helps to have the areas clustered so they appear to be the dominant image of the city to the outsider.  The Northside of Chicago, West Side of LA, and even the East Side of Cincinnati all have clustered neighborhoods of upscale homes, shops, etc. IMO, this is what Cleveland needs in the actual city limits.

 

I could be totally off base, and please correct me if I am.  This is just my perception of Cleveland as an outside viewer.

 

 

 

Damn skippy!  Actually there are bunch of nice neighborhoods in the city proper.  Like the around John Marshall (is the Kamm's Corner or West Park?), Brooklyn, Edgewater, Collinwood, Glenville, Forest Hill, AsiaTown & Lee-Miles.

 

Again, the city does not have a multi layered media, advertising or marketing plan.  So the plain dealer along with developers only choose to spot light downtown, OC, & Tremont.

 

Actually, the way he describes this is how the city was in the 20's 30's... Look at the way E. 55th/Woodland  E.55th/Euclid looked and so on (old photos).... it was that way. E.105 and Euclid was often called Cleveland's 'second downtown' We tore it all down. Today they are nutritional wastelands and the best that is offered to residents is Church's Chicken and Rally's and gas stations. Sad. And on the population points...again, I say we need to focus more on quality than quantity.

 

What does food have to do with this?  REALLY??  You can't resist, can you?  Damn!

You're clearly not getting my point. Did I say ANYTHING about someone having to LIVE in a city to make accurate or even somewhat intelligent statments? NO! Read my post again please before you comment. When someone outright admits they are not familiar with a city but then goes on to blurt out completely outrageous statments is when I say they are in no position to have valid comments. The bulk of Cleveland's negative perception is perpetuated by people who have not the slightest idea of what Cleveland is all about because they have little or no experience with the city.

 

This is true. As for our reputation, we have many right here in the area who are the city's worst enemy. They project pity so much to the point people start believing it... who may have otherwise had no opinion of the city.... Bottom line is that if you act like a loser and keep projecting it, that's what people will think of you. We need a major dose of more civic pride. You needn't be monetarily wealthy to have this pride. Its free!

 

As I've said before, residents in other cities are just as ignorant (of their cities pluses/minuses) as Clevelanders.  Our biggest problem is our Media.

 

Read the paper in Boston, Chicago, Philly, Orlando, Dallas, Baltimore.  the papers are "pro" city/region, however, the comments by readers, just as depressing as the comments on Cleveland.bomb

^I agree that the negative vibe which permeates from this city largely comes from the media's ongoing negative slant towards Cleveland.  Which leads to less people wanting to live, work and experience the city over time.  We've had 40 years of local negative press regarding the city.  The negative local perception of the city is inbred. 

One thing that doesn't help the negative perception, IMHO, is knee jerk overcompensating boosterism.  It's a natural response, one that I used to fall back on in my younger days; but then you realize no-one really cares about how big PHS is or how good the orchestra is; you're not going to change minds and it sounds really, really lame.  Worse, it's often disingenuous- if every Clevelander who touted the orchestra's acclaim to feel good about their city actually patronized it or threw it some $, it wouldn't have the financial strain it has now (and wouldn't be setting up residencies in multiple other cities).  [by the way, in no way is this an attack on any specific UO-ers].

 

I've come to terms with the fact that the reason I love Cleveland is not because it's so great (though in many I think it is), but because I care about it.  The City proper is in really rough shape- not Detroit, but probably in rougher shape than any other major league city.  If outsiders perceive that, that's fine- they're right.

 

The perception issue that steams me is not so much the economic doom and gloom, but more the "coastal elite" view that everything between the Northeast and the west coast (1) is indistinguishable and completely homogeneous and (2) is, by definition, boring, lower quality crap.

 

Here's perhaps one of the laziest and most egregious examples I've come across recently (and the commenters properly let him have it): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-hanft/new-york-city-continues-t_b_265613.html

Yes some of the comments are awesome!

 

While Im very guilty of the overcompensating boosterism, I dont necesarilly agree that it doesnt help some negative perceptions.  I can see where doing it desperately would look pathetic though. 

Usually I do it to people that have never been, yet have no or a negative impression based on other negative things they may have heard or read (or just the long running "mistake on the Lake" reputation that it often still carries). 

 

Usually when I counter with the some of the "best things/boosterism" that they didnt realize they decide that they need to keep they're mind open and may have rushed to an ignorant judgement. 

 

Some of these same people I have also brought to see for themselves, left very pleasantly surprised and are now big fans.    :wink:

^ I have always talked about the 'west is best, east is least' attitude. I don't like it because essentially, for thinking that, they become small minded in their own right. And yes, it would be good to support the things we say we like about the city. For me this means supporting local/independent businesses that give the city a unique identity...or any city, for that matter. I refuse to support sprawl entities at all costs, if for nothing else, but to preserve the character/independence of my city.

 

On a related note... I often sigh and shake my head to the attitudes towards some of this nation's 'original big cities' which contributed so much to shaping the country. At least give places like Cleveland/Detroit the respect they deserve in that way. In a sense, anyone who supports preservation no matter where they live, cannot help but care about these cities in the sense that they are a part of the nation's history in a big way. Instead, too many forget thoughts like that and instead chose to kick sand in the face.

One thing I've noticed about CLE is that it doesn't seem to know how to grow from within.  Maybe I'm generalizing to much but it seems that we rely on outside investment/participation which is always hinted at but never materilaizes.  There seems to be an extreme aversion to risk/entrepeneurial vision in CLE.  Hopkins Airport is an example.  The City wants international flights, yet puts almost every obstacle in front of the hub carrier to make that happen.  Runway 24L/5R was not lengthened to the original specs.  The new customs facility was put-off.  No financial incentives (lower or no landing fees for the int'l flights).  Even to this day (30 years hence from the Kucinich years) CLE still has the reputation of a place where you can't do business.

^ I think that lack of entrepreneurial spirit is directly tied to region's perception of itself. How many times have heard… "This is Cleveland, that won't work here." The Med Mart debate was littered with those types of comments. A couple of my friends told me Cleveland would never be a destination for medical conventions because "nobody wants to come to Cleveland." This kind of attitude has hurt the region in so many ways. It stifles economic growth and prevents many people in the region from thinking big.

^Which is why this perception MUST be changed.  Perception is 9/10s of reality to people who just have no clue about the city.  Even locally, the perception suburbanites have on the city equates to dollars not spent here.  If the nation looks at Cleveland negatively, I don't know if there would be an equation available to show how much the city loses out on.

^Which is why this perception MUST be changed. Perception is 9/10s of reality to people who just have no clue about the city. Even locally, the perception suburbanites have on the city equates to dollars not spent here. If the nation looks at Cleveland negatively, I don't know if there would be an equation available to show how much the city loses out on.

 

True...  U would think that that the mostly suburban workforce that commutes downtown (aprox 115,000/day - actually still one of the biggest downtown workforce populations) would drop a few dollars.  I amazes me that Tower City and the Galleria were not sustainable with that amount people to draw from not to mention the long-gone department stores.  A city with that many people working downtown (plus the 10 to 15 thousand that actually live downtown) should have a dynamic life, vibrant life. 

^Which is why this perception MUST be changed.  Perception is 9/10s of reality to people who just have no clue about the city.  Even locally, the perception suburbanites have on the city equates to dollars not spent here.  If the nation looks at Cleveland negatively, I don't know if there would be an equation available to show how much the city loses out on.

 

True...  U would think that that the mostly suburban workforce that commutes downtown (aprox 115,000/day - actually still one of the biggest downtown workforce populations) would drop a few dollars.  I amazes me that Tower City and the Galleria were not sustainable with that amount people to draw from not to mention the long-gone department stores.  A city with that many people working downtown (plus the 10 to 15 thousand that actually live downtown) should have a dynamic life, vibrant life. 

 

We've gone thru this before. When TC and the Galleria were built there was no population to support it nor were the nabes surrounding downtown ready - as they are now - to support a large department store and high end boutiques.  Once the novelty wore off, there was nothing to support it.

 

In addition, TC doesn't know how to run a high end downtown mall.

 

If built today, with the residents that live downtown along with resurgent nabes in Tremont, Ohio City and Asian Village, the mall would be much more succesful.

 

As mayday would say, lets stop living in the past.

 

...moving on.

One thing I've noticed about CLE is that it doesn't seem to know how to grow from within. Maybe I'm generalizing to much but it seems that we rely on outside investment/participation which is always hinted at but never materilaizes. There seems to be an extreme aversion to risk/entrepeneurial vision in CLE. Hopkins Airport is an example. The City wants international flights, yet puts almost every obstacle in front of the hub carrier to make that happen. Runway 24L/5R was not lengthened to the original specs. The new customs facility was put-off. No financial incentives (lower or no landing fees for the int'l flights). Even to this day (30 years hence from the Kucinich years) CLE still has the reputation of a place where you can't do business.

 

I agree that this is how things went for many years, but with all the re-investment we've been seeing recently, I really feel like this has begun to change over the past five years or so.  For so long, it seems like we were waiting for outside investors or help from the state or federal governments, but in the past five years, we've seen so many local developers and others working to revitalize the core.  E. 4th, FEB, the WHD, DCA, the Avenue District...  These are all local ideas and money.  Stark was actively trying to sell his WHD plan in Vegas just last year.  Adam Wasserman et al. came up with a vision for the port.  Even Ricky Smith's Airmall plan for Hopkins was a step forward, and to me, shows that we're finally growing a pair, saying "to h*ll with it," and just trying to get things done.

 

Forgive me if that's a bit too rosy a view, but it's just an opinion. :)

One thing I've noticed about CLE is that it doesn't seem to know how to grow from within. Maybe I'm generalizing to much but it seems that we rely on outside investment/participation which is always hinted at but never materilaizes. There seems to be an extreme aversion to risk/entrepeneurial vision in CLE. Hopkins Airport is an example. The City wants international flights, yet puts almost every obstacle in front of the hub carrier to make that happen. Runway 24L/5R was not lengthened to the original specs. The new customs facility was put-off. No financial incentives (lower or no landing fees for the int'l flights). Even to this day (30 years hence from the Kucinich years) CLE still has the reputation of a place where you can't do business.

 

I agree that this is how things went for many years, but with all the re-investment we've been seeing recently, I really feel like this has begun to change over the past five years or so. For so long, it seems like we were waiting for outside investors or help from the state or federal governments, but in the past five years, we've seen so many local developers and others working to revitalize the core. E. 4th, FEB, the WHD, DCA, the Avenue District... These are all local ideas and money. Stark was actively trying to sell his WHD plan in Vegas just last year. Adam Wasserman et al. came up with a vision for the port. Even Ricky Smith's Airmall plan for Hopkins was a step forward, and to me, shows that we're finally growing a pair, saying "to h*ll with it," and just trying to get things done.

 

Forgive me if that's a bit too rosy a view, but it's just an opinion. :)

 

You are right.  It was I who was being a bit to negative.

This negative perception question can be debated up and down but I'm not so sure it's worthwhile. I do stand by my comment that typically it's not warranted because it's usually born out of ignorance, the article someone shared on HP about New York becoming Cleveland is a prime example. Unfortunately this negative image of Cleveland has settled into the American psyche. It seems as though people like to have other cities to kick around, probably to make them feel better about their city? Pure laziness is evident. Changing it? My guess is that change will come from lots of different entities making small and large contributions, and I was happy to see much of this happening on my last visit. Actually our perception was Cleveland never looked so good. I also noticed a change in many of the locals as well. People everywhere were more passionate about their city and neighborhood which I think is huge. In past visits it would seem that many locals would have their civic blinders on and we would get the "You like it here?" look, this time it was very different. I am also realistic about Cleveland and know the city faces many problems which can't be ignored and I don't even pretend to know how to go about fixing them but I think a Cleveland full of passionate and confident people is a major step to changing perceptions and thankfully I see that happening. Cleveland has so many wonderful things to build on, assets that other cities would just die to have, and this helps tremendously. Some are being used wisely like the Orchestra and CMA to name a few and some like the lake shore are just starting to be tapped. The perception issue is frustrating but I think it is changing and we have good reason to be optimistic along with being realistic. In the meantime we can not let people have a green pass to make crazy comments and I will continue to get in their faces, hey it's one small way to make change.

Actually as an "Outsider" I can't believe any of you are letting this comment by this Edale person even merit these responses. Just from the first sentence "I admit I am not overly familiar with Cleveland" should just about sum it up about this person. Ok so your not familiar but you're going to go ahead and state that most of Cleveland is run down and abandoned? Excuse me but I live in San Francisco and just came back from a week long trip to Cleveland and it's anything but run down and I would take Cleveland any day in a head to head match against Cincinnati in any capacity, and I have been to BOTH towns. So yeah you are totally and completely off base. You must be completely oblivious or insanely insecure about your own Town and I would assume it could be both, not that I am overly familiar with you or anything.

 

Nothing I said was malicious or intended to be negative in ANY way towards Cleveland.  I said that I am not overly familiar with Cleveland so as to be transparent and not assume to know everything about the city.  I have in fact been to Cleveland a few times, and I have been a member of Urban Ohio for 5 years, and have seen countless photo threads, and kept track of many of the developments going on in Cleveland.  In fact, I like the city a lot, and have enjoyed it when I have visited.

 

Your comment is out of line, pure and simple. Get your head out of your ass, and look at the raw data. 14% of Cleveland is college educated. the median household income is 28,512. The median house/condo cost is 89,000. Unemployment is 12.2%. It's crime index number is 841.3.  These numbers are all much worse than the Ohio numbers, and especially worse when compared to Cincinnati. Of course when you include the Metro area, the numbers even out a bit more.  Cincinnati and Cleveland both are 77 square miles, so don't give me the excuse that we include further reaching areas in the numbers.  The facts are there. Cleveland was once a very wealthy city, but they have since lost the majority of that money to the suburbs.  This leaves an inner city that is more run down and abandoned than others.  Is that so hard to understand?

 

I am not insecure at all about Cincinnati, and I don't even live there for most of the year. The only reason I even brought Cincinnati in as an example was due to the fact that the city has a large area of continuous upscale neighborhoods on the East Side, much in the same fashion of the Northside of Chicago.  Stemming from downtown you have Mt. Adams, East Walnut Hills, Hyde Park, Mt. Lookout, Oakley, and Columbia Tusculum.  All of these neighborhoods are adjacent to each other, and all are expensive, upscale neighborhoods (Oakley is a little more affordable, and has a younger demographic, but is still a solid neighborhood).

 

All statistics are from: http://www.city-data.com/city/Cleveland-Ohio.html

 

compare to Cincy if you wish: http://www.city-data.com/city/Cincinnati-Ohio.html

 

Please, let's not start a pissing match. Edale and Sfbob both made valid points.

Actually as an "Outsider" I can't believe any of you are letting this comment by this Edale person even merit these responses. Just from the first sentence "I admit I am not overly familiar with Cleveland" should just about sum it up about this person. Ok so your not familiar but you're going to go ahead and state that most of Cleveland is run down and abandoned? Excuse me but I live in San Francisco and just came back from a week long trip to Cleveland and it's anything but run down and I would take Cleveland any day in a head to head match against Cincinnati in any capacity, and I have been to BOTH towns. So yeah you are totally and completely off base. You must be completely oblivious or insanely insecure about your own Town and I would assume it could be both, not that I am overly familiar with you or anything.

 

Nothing I said was malicious or intended to be negative in ANY way towards Cleveland.  I said that I am not overly familiar with Cleveland so as to be transparent and not assume to know everything about the city.  I have in fact been to Cleveland a few times, and I have been a member of Urban Ohio for 5 years, and have seen countless photo threads, and kept track of many of the developments going on in Cleveland.  In fact, I like the city a lot, and have enjoyed it when I have visited.

 

Your comment is out of line, pure and simple. Get your head out of your ass, and look at the raw data. 14% of Cleveland is college educated. the median household income is 28,512. The median house/condo cost is 89,000. Unemployment is 12.2%. It's crime index number is 841.3.  These numbers are all much worse than the Ohio numbers, and especially worse when compared to Cincinnati. Of course when you include the Metro area, the numbers even out a bit more.  Cincinnati and Cleveland both are 77 square miles, so don't give me the excuse that we include further reaching areas in the numbers.  The facts are there. Cleveland was once a very wealthy city, but they have since lost the majority of that money to the suburbs.  This leaves an inner city that is more run down and abandoned than others.  Is that so hard to understand?

 

I am not insecure at all about Cincinnati, and I don't even live there for most of the year. The only reason I even brought Cincinnati in as an example was due to the fact that the city has a large area of continuous upscale neighborhoods on the East Side, much in the same fashion of the Northside of Chicago.  Stemming from downtown you have Mt. Adams, East Walnut Hills, Hyde Park, Mt. Lookout, Oakley, and Columbia Tusculum.  All of these neighborhoods are adjacent to each other, and all are expensive, upscale neighborhoods (Oakley is a little more affordable, and has a younger demographic, but is still a solid neighborhood).

 

All statistics are from: http://www.city-data.com/city/Cleveland-Ohio.html

 

compare to Cincy if you wish: http://www.city-data.com/city/Cincinnati-Ohio.html

 

Not true!  And we all know city data is not accurate.

I'm have no intention of getting into a pissing match. I know when it's worth it and when it's not, and this is definitely not. Wow.

everyone...............

 

 

 

Do you know what would change Cleveland's perception? LeBron staying and creating a dynasty.  Also, if the casino passes, I'm sure it would be less difficult to host large sporting events such as all-star games (baseball and basketball) or college bowl games and NCAA tournaments.  Maybe not the college stuff, but I do feel that being a laughing stock within the sporting community is damaging in some way to our perception.  It acts as a measurable sign of the city's failure.

 

 

 

 

Do you know what would change Cleveland's perception? LeBron staying and creating a dynasty.  Also, if the casino passes, I'm sure it would be less difficult to host large sporting events such as all-star games (baseball and basketball) or college bowl games and NCAA tournaments.  Maybe not the college stuff, but I do feel that being a laughing stock within the sporting community is damaging in some way to our perception.  It acts as a measurable sign of the city's failure.

 

 

 

 

 

whipjack, we already have hosted several of those event, from an sports even planning and hosting perspective we are a good city to host in sans two convention hotels.

 

The Cleveland sports commission is a more important incubator and facilitator for sports tourism than LeBron could ever be.

 

Also, sports "all star games" sans the NFL are guided by the leauge, they have a formula as to where the games are held.  It's not based on a bid.

 

Honest and serious question - Why do you feel we are a laughing stock, better yet, what is your definition of a laughing stock. 

 

We're a three major league town with a host of minor league teams in the area.  Not many cities have two let alone three.

Because the browns have had two winning seasons since their inception and haven't won a championship since sixty-four

Tribe ended up in the cellar or the Central Division and haven't won a championship since '48

Cave have been terrible, with terrible owners until 2003 (save the early '70's and early 90's) and we have yet to win it.

 

Three major sports is good for a medium sized city, but it is expected if you are a major population area, as the Greater Cleveland Area undoubtedly is.

Because the browns have had two winning seasons since their inception and haven't won a championship since sixty-four

Tribe ended up in the cellar or the Central Division and haven't won a championship since '48

Cave have been terrible, with terrible owners until 2003 (save the early '70's and early 90's) and we have yet to win it.

 

Three major sports is good for a medium sized city, but it is expected if you are a major population area, as the Greater Cleveland Area undoubtedly is.

 

And what has that got to do with sports tourism. 

 

To directly counter your points.

 

The browns are damn near sellouts for everygame, even with losing seasons.  Have the largest (or second largest) sports booster organization in the world.

 

Since moving back to downtown the cavs have had winning season and haven't been a profitable!

 

The indians have been great since moving to the jake sans the last few seasons.

 

Also, when it comes to sports the city's size isn't the key its our metro regions size.  Cleveland is ranked (between) 12-15 based on what matrix the researcher is using.

 

Ahh, not three sports is not expected in any city.  So please don't kid yourself with that.  If that was the case, we would have a NHL and Soccer franchise

 

How old are you?

I am 19, but I was speaking to National Perception.  That is what I understood the thread to be about.  There is no doubt that Cleveland fans are amongst the best in the nation, but I feel that we get spat on by the national media.  That was the point I was trying to make, but obviously did a poor job of.

I am 19, but I was speaking to National Perception.  That is what I understood the thread to be about.  There is no doubt that Cleveland fans are amongst the best in the nation, but I feel that we get spat on by the national media.  That was the point I was trying to make, but obviously did a poor job of.

 

Well to bring this to full circle, that is your perception, not fact, correct?

 

 

The funny thing about the perception Clevelanders have about downtown is that I think the city has never been better.  I grew up in Cleveland in the 50s through early 70s, left, and returned 12 years ago.  It is amazing how people have this glorified memory of what Cleveland used to be.

 

In the 60s and early 70s, Playhouse Square was an abandoned, run down area.  All of the theaters were close and slated for demolition.  Look at Playhouse Square now with all of the theaters and restaurants, etc.  Never better.

 

We complain about Tower City (although as downtown residents my wife and I shop there all the time).  In the 60s and early 70s, TC was an abandoned train station.  At one time it actually contained indoor tennis courts, to try to utilize the space!

 

The only decent hotel downtown at that time was the site of the current Renaissance hotel.  I remember the Beatles staying there.  Now there are many great hotels downtown.  The Ritz Carlton, Hyatt, Marriott, and Renaissance to name a few.

 

At that time the Flats consisted of a couple of dive bars and one great rock club (I can't remember the name).  I remember going down there and it was deserted.  After a night of drinking the big event was trying to climb one of the huge piles of gravel that lined the river.  I know the Flats took off for a while, and now it is not as "great", but there is still the Power House, Shooters, and Flat Iron cafe to name only a few of the places.  More importantly there are the Stonebridge apartments bringing residents to downtown.

 

On East 9th there was the Agora.  That was great.  However we forget it was next door to the Roxie!  The Roxie was a very old burlesque/strip club.  Most of the area around there was not particularly attractive.

 

Where The Q and Progressive Field are stood the abandoned Central market surrounded by many abandoned buildings.  East. 4th was not a street you wanted to walk down after dark and look at it now.

 

The Warehouse District consisted of many abandoned warehouses which were a constant fire hazard.  There were no bars or restaurants and no one lived there.  As a matter of fact, in the 60s and 70s no one lived downtown, which meant for the most part, the downtown closed after 5:00 pm.  Now the brightest part about downtown Cleveland is all of the new residents.

 

In the 60s and 70s there was no Rock Hall, Science Center, or Voinavich Park which meant there was even less access to Lake Erie than now.  And Cleveland State was a small commuter school.

 

I apologize for rambling, but I am trying to illustrate how perceptions can differ.  While most Clevelanders talk about the good old days, I think Cleveland was never better than it is now.  The problem is that perceptions are hard to alter - it borders on prejudice.

 

 

Do you know what would change Cleveland's perception? LeBron staying and creating a dynasty.  Also, if the casino passes, I'm sure it would be less difficult to host large sporting events such as all-star games (baseball and basketball) or college bowl games and NCAA tournaments.  Maybe not the college stuff, but I do feel that being a laughing stock within the sporting community is damaging in some way to our perception.  It acts as a measurable sign of the city's failure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're already economically type-cast a sports town and that we can be nothing more....through the eyes of many. I said it a hundred times...Cleveland needs to stop banking all its hopes on LeBron and casinos to save the day. They will not. Uniqueness and building individual character and identity for your city though creative ideas and contributions from individuals, entrepreneurs, etc.. will. Trust in the spirits of such and give them the breaks to help make a really diverse economy that will breed stability.

 

Contrary to popular myth, Lebron and casinos are of interest to a small minority when viewed against a world backdrop. The world really doesn't give two hoots about LeBron, whether we win a championship... or some po-dunk casino here.....And if you have bigger sights like making this an internationally attractive city...  You have to offer more than a casino where obese Wal-Mart customers with hip huggers, a crispy outdated hairdo, and flip flops will be spending rolls of pennies at the slot machines...that is, if you don't want to be once again, economically type cast as such..... as your new identity. The fact that so much of the mid west has bought onto this thing as their savior looking from the outside in...is laughable and shows a lack of vision and creativity.

 

Soooo...beacon something really different to the nation and to the world...don't play copy cat and follow the crowd/bandwagon...and then you will see some special things happening more.

 

Don't build your economy around that which produces dysfunction and poor health, body, mind, spirit. ie: Tobacco industry, booze, gambling, fast food, big box stores flooding the market with cheap Chinese plastic crap. That won't attract the higher quality stake holders or visitors with real cash to spend. Also, get the industry converted to green collar.... re-invent. 

Do you know what would change Cleveland's perception? LeBron staying and creating a dynasty.  Also, if the casino passes, I'm sure it would be less difficult to host large sporting events such as all-star games (baseball and basketball) or college bowl games and NCAA tournaments.  Maybe not the college stuff, but I do feel that being a laughing stock within the sporting community is damaging in some way to our perception.  It acts as a measurable sign of the city's failure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're already economically type-cast a sports town and that we can be nothing more....through the eyes of many. I said it a hundred times...Cleveland needs to stop banking all its hopes on LeBron and casinos to save the day. They will not. Uniqueness and building individual character and identity for your city though creative ideas and contributions from individuals, entrepreneurs, etc.. will. Trust in the spirits of such and give them the breaks to help make a really diverse economy that will breed stability.

 

Contrary to popular myth, Lebron and casinos are of interest to a small minority when viewed against a world backdrop. The world really doesn't give two hoots about LeBron, whether we win a championship... or some po-dunk casino here.....And if you have bigger sights like making this an internationally attractive city...  You have to offer more than a casino where obese Wal-Mart customers with hip huggers, a crispy outdated hairdo, and flip flops will be spending rolls of pennies at the slot machines...that is, if you don't want to be once again, economically type cast as such..... as your new identity. The fact that so much of the mid west has bought onto this thing as their savior looking from the outside in...is laughable and shows a lack of vision and creativity.

 

Soooo...beacon something really different to the nation and to the world...don't play copy cat and follow the crowd/bandwagon...and then you will see some special things happening more.

 

Don't build your economy around that which produces dysfunction and poor health, body, mind, spirit. ie: Tobacco industry, booze, gambling, fast food, big box stores flooding the market with cheap Chinese plastic crap. That won't attract the higher quality stake holders or visitors with real cash to spend. Also, get the industry converted to green collar.... re-invent. 

 

 

Since when is ANYONE banking their hopes and dreams on a casino or LeBron?

Too much of Cleveland. Oh, maybe I forgot to add the M.Mart thing too. These stories drone on like a depressing church chorus. Oh well, one thing could be certain...through it all, we could be a leader in producing the sickest population...  May be good for Med Mart products.

Ec there's people that can help you.  With the right amount of therapy and meds you might make it......

 

http://psychcentral.com/

I'm not sure about that.  I don't know of anyone who's suggesting we "build our economy" around this one stupid casino. 

For whatever anecdotal information is worth I can tell you that people here in Seattle had a generally favorable view of Cleveland during the 90's.  This was when the Tribe was in the playoffs with Seattle and the local Seattle paper (we used to have two then, only one now and it is folding) did a comparison of the two cities. 

^Isn't it weird (and silly) how success in sports can drastically alter the way a city is viewed from the outside?

M2S will yell at you for saying that

^Isn't it weird (and silly) how success in sports can drastically alter the way a city is viewed from the outside?

 

Only to the people who believe that is a real mesure of a cities success. :D

 

M2S will yell at you for saying that

 

HUSH Whippersnapper!  LOL  and hey, I'm Puerto Rican, us Latinos are passionate, when we yell its a form of love!  Entiende?!

Cleveland had a better reputation a few years ago, when the Rock Hall opened and the Flats was going strong.  Back then it was the comeback city.

 

Pittsburgh being on the radar is a new thing, and maybe a lot of it is because the city doesn’t look as wasted as one would expect, given the history of de-industrialization.

 

I'm not sure about that.  I don't know of anyone who's suggesting we "build our economy" around this one stupid casino. 

 

This will hurt this region more than help...and people are not delving deep enough to look at what will be the repercussions that are never discussed...and will not be. Sort of in the same fashion that a Wal-Mart/sprawl is looked at in bringing in jobs, taxes, and so on...But no one ever talks about the jobs and taxes LOST from the independent/locally owned economy...which if you do the homework, you will see they offer nothing the propaganda suggests. Its a trade off that has us surrendering a local identity and soverignty to homogenization and pitty poop jobs. Those who promote this sort of agenda and think they're being visionary are actually taking a short sighted side. MTS is also correct about what he said about measuring a city's success by its sports. That is not a gauge and the last thing we should be doing. We may want to adopt a more pro-academics mindset. I say this and I am a big sports fan and have played several, but still acknowledge the fact that we cannot allow this to become King to the point it holds our city by the balls to get whatever it wishes.  I don't want my economy built around either. It is a desperate act of drawing straws, lack of patience and creative thought. 

What's your guys' closest casino?

I'm pretty sure it is the casino near Erie, Pa.  100 miles give or take a few.

I'm pretty sure it is the casino near Erie, Pa. 100 miles give or take a few.

 

See, we have one just off the 275 loop, so I'm sure this will probably effect you guys more than it will us -by having a new casino.

M2S will yell at you for saying that

 

So will I.

 

If your city school district is graduating 90 percent of its kids, the city's median income is above the national average, you're creating new businesses and jobs every year, your population is growing and your unemployment is low, then who cares if you even have professional sports -- let alone if they are winning teams?

 

If you had to choose, would rather have that, or would you rather have our current economic situation with pro sports winning championships?

 

I realize that you shouldn't have to choose, but if I'm a city leader and I have a limited amount of time and resources to accomplish great things, where would I invest them first -- in creating educational and economic opportunities, or would I go lobby to get funding for world-class entertainment facilities?

 

The latter gets headlines in the short term, while the former takes a lot more work and may not pay off for years if not decades. Since we have become a nation of instant gratification, it's no wonder Cleveland isn't the only U.S. city that has more in common with Third World cities than that which belongs in (supposedly) the Greatest Nation on Earth.

That stupid Plain Dealer always criticizes the city and never tries to offer any solutions. What a joke. I have read that paper for about 13 years or so, I'm 28. It's always been the same. It's unfortunate because the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette offers so much positive news and critiques the problems of the city and metro, while not overdramatizing them like the Plain Dealer. It does lots of research and publishes the solutions to the problems.

 

I am sorry you are stuck with such a negative newspaper in Cleveland.

^That's part of the reason why I believe locals have such a negative perception of the city.  I myself am not a fan of the paper, nor do I support it.

Cleveland has one-sixth of the metro's population and Cuyahoga County has nearly one-half of the metro population. If one-sixth of the PD's writers and editors live in the city of Cleveland, I would be shocked. Forget that. I would be shocked if one-sixth of their writers and editors lived in Cuyahoga County! I say this based on past writings by them. I don't recall many of them living in Cuyahoga County much less the city of Cleveland.

 

If true, why is this?

This could be merged with the Cleveland perception thread...

Who freaking cares? I travel all over and have never heard of the slightest hint of Indianapolis and its new branding blah blah blah. Does a town really need to have a slogan or branding to make strides? Cleveland has had more national attention with it's headway becoming a foodie destination than anything Indianapolis has had with their Convention Center expansion, and oh by the way all that type of stuff and more is happening in the Cleve as we speak.

Who freaking cares? I travel all over and have never heard of the slightest hint of Indianapolis and its new branding blah blah blah. Does a town really need to have a slogan or branding to make strides? Cleveland has had more national attention with it's headway becoming a foodie destination than anything Indianapolis has had with their Convention Center expansion, and oh by the way all that type of stuff and more is happening in the Cleve as we speak.

 

that exactly why that freak hasn't posted.  People in cleveland are quick to hate on the city and defend it at the same time - yet have no real clue as to what is going on!

Who freaking cares? I travel all over and have never heard of the slightest hint of Indianapolis and its new branding blah blah blah. Does a town really need to have a slogan or branding to make strides? Cleveland has had more national attention with it's headway becoming a foodie destination than anything Indianapolis has had with their Convention Center expansion, and oh by the way all that type of stuff and more is happening in the Cleve as we speak.

 

LOL!

 

I guess the two threads are the same topic.  Cleveland's increasing perception as a food destination is a positive for the whole region, and didn't require a huge convention center for this to happen.