After some discussion on here awhile ago about whether or not I was a "typical" suburbanite, I decided to conduct a little poll on my local moms board about how often people come downtown, and then invited comments underneath as to why or why not. My instructions to the poll were that anyone who lives in the suburbs should answer, whether or not they work downtown, work elsewhere, or don't work at all.

 

The results are just coming in and I expect to hear more over the next couple of days, but they aren't what I had hoped. There are definitely some people just like me who answered reporting similar behavior to me, but almost every one of them to a person said most of that behavior was pre-kid, and now that they have kids, they just don't come downtown like they used to. The #1 reason was parking fees and no desire to hunt down a meter and then walk a couple of blocks. Also cited as reasons were poor public transit (mostly from E siders) and "nothing to do/see" except restaurants, e.g. no shops. 

 

Again, I've had less than 20 people reply and maybe will get 10 more, but here's the answers so far in case anyone is interested:

 

Q: When/how often do you come downtown?

 

 

Never or almost never - I avoid it as much as possible  0%  [ 0 ]

  Only for concerts or sporting events (or similar event)  63%  [ 12 ]

  Occasionally - a few times a month, to restaurants or shops  23%  [ 5 ]

  Regularly, but I don't stay (work downtown but flee after)    0%  [ 0 ]

  All the time - I visit downtown area shops/bars/restaurants on a very regular basis (at least twice a week), either as part of my workday/lunch or after work.  12%  [ 2 ]

 

Some selected text responses:

 

"Prior to having kids, I could tell you with 100% certainty that I would be downtown more."

"I avoid it as much as possible but will go down for sporting events/concerts or if I really want to try a restaurant. I'd MUCH rather stay in the suburbs though. The thing that annoys me the most is parking. I hate having to pay $8 to park to enjoy a nice dinner downtown. I could just as easily go to an independent restaurant in the suburbs that has free parking."

"I always park for free downtown for dinner. It's free on the streets after 6pm. I am willing to walk though. That is one of the things I love about Cleveland that's actually NOT in other cities." (Note UOs, this is NOT me responding, so yay)

"If I was alone there's also no way I'd walk by myself any amount of distance. If I really get real about it, there's no way I'd go downtown alone anyway."

"I used to work downtown, and when I did I was one of those, I work here but at 4:45 I'm gone. I did try to go to restaurants during lunch occassionally, but unless we had tickets to an event or something I didn't stay...now I don't work downtown, and almost never go down unless it's for a game or something. Part of the reason is DH and I have a son, and we would need to get him home from daycare and to a sitter and then go down for an evening during the week, and frankly we're pretty booked with other commitments it's just never a priority for us. On the weekends, if we do go out to eat we have some favorites, and I'll (very) occassionally go with my mom or other friends out to dinner downtown or in Tremont, but as XXX mentioned there are some good restaurants in the suburbs and you don't have to pay to park so that's definitely an issue. For example, DH and I used to meet after work and go to Harry Buffalo for dinner. now there's one 5 minutes from our house. not that we go, but if we were going to, it wouldn't be to the one downtown. "

"I said sporting events/concerts - but the reality is that those are (prior to having a kid) once or twice a month, and then we would usally come down at least one more time for a restaurant or some specific thing (comedy show, or whatever)."

"Pre-marriage my friends and I went out to the warehouse district 2 nights a week. Pre kids when I worked downtown in the BP bldg, I never stayed downtown, I was out the door and home, but I had 2 dogs that needed let out. I wish I would have taken advantage of some more happy hours. Most of my friends were still in school then though and I was the youngest person at my job. I would totally stay downtown now once in awhile if I was working there still. We go down for sporting events, out to eat (me more with girlfriends for this), and to other various things. I would say 5-7 times a month."

"Once I changed jobs and was working in the suburbs, I actually went downtown more (on weekends anyway) for stuff.

Now that I have a kid (and a dog), downtown is only on my radar for the occasional orchestra concert or Indians game. By occasional, I mean maybe once a year. It's just not feasible right now the way things are. I don't have anything against downtown itself."

"I think in general downtown has done a great job at attracting new restaurants, especially with E. 4th street. my only issue is, it seems like it's just a bunch of restaurants. it's not like there's shopping open in the evenings or on the weekends other than Tower City and well, that's really gone downhill since it opened. I"m not sure what you'd do if you were going to spend a full weekend downtown. I can go to fun restaurants, see movies, and shop all within 10-20 minutes of my house and not pay for parking. and as far as sporting events, I think the Lake County Captains is one of the best options around. I know it's not seeing the Indians, but as far as a family friendly activity, it's great. and Downtown isn't particularly family friendly in my mind."

 

 

These aren't all the comments (and do NOT show my many retorts/informational posts in response) but I wanted to share with you because we have talked about this, and it might shed some light on why suburbans are staying in the suburbs or why they don't want to come downtown. I have mentioned several times on here how HUGE the paid parking problem is for the suburbanites, and it's been pooh-poohd because all urban areas have that. But other major urban areas have shops and things to add to the reason to come downtown, not just restaurants. And having kids really is a game changer for many of these people. Having had one myself, we DEFINITELY go out a lot less, and tend to try to stay closer as well. So downtown gets hit very infrequently given that we might go out as a couple once every 2 months, and 3 out of 5 of those times we are going to try to stay fairly close to home.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love the "free" parking thing.

I guess I would respond similarly.  Pre kids, my wife and I would go dt all the time to go out and drink and eat.  Post kids, not so much.  Even on a date night, we try to watch our spending, and we know going dt for dinner and drinks can get expensive versus staying local.  We do take the kids to Indians games once or twice a year.  Also the air show, and once at Christmas.  That's about it.  If there were more stores to window shop at then we probably would go more often as my wife loves to do that in Chicago and DC (Bethesda and Chevy Chase) when visiting family. 

 

Also, keep in mind.  My kids are 1, 3,4,5 years old.  Therefore, it is very difficult to walk dt with them.  When they get a little bit older, we may go more.  I am hoping in 5 years or so there is also more to lure us down there.  We do miss the many drunken nights pre-kid in the Flats and WHD though I will admit.   

Interesting stuff, OP. To be honest, I've been spending less and less downtown lately myself. From 04-09 or so, outside of working downtown for two years, I would go once or twice a week to the usual suspects (E4, W6,9, West Bank Flats, Huron Rd), and party. But a couple of years ago - I'm 29 now - I just started losing interest in those areas. They're still very cool and a lot of fun, perhaps even more during the day (nothing beats lunch on E4), but there really needs to be more than bars, restaurants, sports teams, a couple museums which are hard to get excited over, and I can't afford Playhouse more than once every so often.

 

Outside of weekends at Anatomy, maybe Shooters, I would guess that a number, most, of my friends are the same way. Downtown is out; Tremont is in, at least by your upper 20s and higher. Not always, but usually. And yeah, there really needs to be more things to do than just eat and drink or go to the E9 museums, and maybe in time there will be, but for now I definitely see where your friends are coming from. I mean, what would little kids do down there except go to the Science museum? They'd be better off at University Circle (play at the lagoons, go to Children's, Art or (eventually) MOCA museum, have fun at Little Italy, Natural History museum, etc...

Interesting stuff, OP. To be honest, I've been spending less and less downtown lately myself. From 04-09 or so, outside of working downtown for two years, I would go once or twice a week to the usual suspects (E4, W6,9, West Bank Flats, Huron Rd), and party. But a couple of years ago - I'm 29 now - I just started losing interest in those areas. They're still very cool and a lot of fun, perhaps even more during the day (nothing beats lunch on E4), but there really needs to be more than bars, restaurants, sports teams, a couple museums which are hard to get excited over, and I can't afford Playhouse more than once every so often.

 

Outside of weekends at Anatomy, maybe Shooters, I would guess that a number, most, of my friends are the same way. Downtown is out; Tremont is in, at least by your upper 20s and higher. Not always, but usually. And yeah, there really needs to be more things to do than just eat and drink or go to the E9 museums, and maybe in time there will be, but for now I definitely see where your friends are coming from. I mean, what would little kids do down there except go to the Science museum? They'd be better off at University Circle (play at the lagoons, go to Children's, Art or (eventually) MOCA museum, have fun at Little Italy, Natural History museum, etc...

 

What exactly were you looking for?

You know, reasons to go downtown on a beautiful day besides food and sports. Parks and other green area, shopping districts, art galleries, gardens, more museums, downtown neighborhoods and districts, outdoor events, memorials and monuments, lots of people....things of that note.

 

I'm not going through the whole 'Why doesn't Cleveland have these things' motions, just explaining why people might not go downtown on a beautiful Saturday day, especially with their young kids in tow.

You know, reasons to go downtown on a beautiful day besides food and sports. Parks and other green area, shopping districts, art galleries, gardens, more museums, downtown neighborhoods and districts, outdoor events, memorials and monuments, lots of people....things of that note.

 

I'm not going through the whole 'Why doesn't Cleveland have these things' motions, just explaining why people might not go downtown on a beautiful Saturday day, especially with their young kids in tow.

 

Precisely.  For example say its a beautiful Saturday and you want to do something, but the indians are out of town and you dont want to go to a restaurant.  You could go to WSM, always entertaining even if you aren't buying anything, but thats in OC.  You could go to some of the Art Galleries, but those are more likely in Tremont.  ou could go to one of the museums, but then you are most likely in UC. 

 

You know, reasons to go downtown on a beautiful day besides food and sports. Parks and other green area, shopping districts, art galleries, gardens, more museums, downtown neighborhoods and districts, outdoor events, memorials and monuments, lots of people....things of that note.

 

I'm not going through the whole 'Why doesn't Cleveland have these things' motions, just explaining why people might not go downtown on a beautiful Saturday day, especially with their young kids in tow.

 

Thats BS to me.  There are plenty of activities going on in the city, especially downtown, its that we have an entire generation of people who have never had any emotional attachment to downtown and many more that are just NOT in the know about what happens in their city!

It's not BS, it's what people think. Clearly, though it's a small sampling, downtown isn't perceived to have much to do besides go to restaurants. I mean, what would I do with my 2 year old downtown? Do you think he's interested in soldiers & sailors monument? Going to Erie Street coffee or Dredger's Union?

I think something downtown could do to spruce up more interest is to have more specialty stores and shops.  Stores that one cannot find in your typical suburban shopping mall.  Get a large number of shops like this and people would come to downtown Cleveland for more than just getting a meal, going to a ball game.

 

Isn't a store like this set up to open on E.4th pretty soon?

It's not BS, it's what people think. Clearly, though it's a small sampling, downtown isn't perceived to have much to do besides go to restaurants. I mean, what would I do with my 2 year old downtown? Do you think he's interested in soldiers & sailors monument? Going to Erie Street coffee or Dredger's Union?

 

As I stated, there is an entire generation - 15 years - that does not have any emotional attachment with what takes place downtown.  My 18 year old nephew remembers Higbees downtown, but not in great detail.  My 16 year old niece only remembers it when it  was 5 floors.  My 15 year old nephew knows nothing of it.

 

Someones "perception" is not reality.  They may think it is, but it isn't.  That statement, to me, sends a clear message that there is very little marketing or information about what events takes place in downtown or in the city proper.

I think something downtown could do to spruce up more interest is to have more specialty stores and shops.  Stores that one cannot find in your typical suburban shopping mall.  Get a large number of shops like this and people would come to downtown Cleveland for more than just getting a meal, going to a ball game.

 

Isn't a store like this set up to open on E.4th pretty soon?

 

As stated a thousand times on this very board, speciality shops come to areas after a "needs" and "residential" base meet certain criteria and maintained that criteria for x amount of time.  Its very rare that People would go to X place for X thing/things without having something else to experience.  We need some sort of base department store or a host of stores from a retail holdings group to open in shop with concert.  Something similar to what took place on Walnut St in Philly.

 

I think downtown would be able to draw people downtown the same way Crocker Park draws people to Crocker Park. Stores... I know it cant just happen but if you look at what Crocker Park is, and how they draw people(even from the east side suburbs), it because people want to go to stores that might be the only one in the region and to experience the atmosphere. Downtown destroys Crocker Park in atmosphere obviously but Crocker Park unfortunately kills downtown in retail. Move those same stores downtown and I guarantee they would have the same business, if not better.

I think the "emotional attachment" argument is kind of n/a as well. I did not grow up in cleveland and don't have any memories of Higbees or whatever, I grew to love cleveland by living here 1992-forward. Lots of transplants to cleveland have the same experience. Who we need to get at are the ones that have been influenced bythe people who DID have the emotional attachment and now have a "woe is me, it's gangland downtown" mentality who have convinced these other people to stop coming downtown. These girls on my board are much younger than me, they did not form these opinions from their own experiences downtown, they heard it from their parents or older neighbors.

We in Northeast Ohio lack that ONE place where everyone goes. That magnet kind of place. A place that attracts diversity and every age group. That's free to go to.

 

I was lucky to grow up with a place like this.

 

Cleveland needs a boardwalk.

It's not BS, it's what people think. Clearly, though it's a small sampling, downtown isn't perceived to have much to do besides go to restaurants. I mean, what would I do with my 2 year old downtown? Do you think he's interested in soldiers & sailors monument? Going to Erie Street coffee or Dredger's Union?

 

Take him down to Voinivich Park, walk around the pier, play in the lawn, go the Science Center...

 

What do you do with a 2 year old in other cities?

I don't live in the Cleveland area, and I'm certainly not a suburbanite, but I love downtown Cleveland and I took my kids there when they were young. And whenever I'm in Cleveland with people who are not familiar with the city, I have a brief walking tour that blows them away. The Arcade is one of the most amazing buildings in the country -- one of the two or three best of that type of building in the world. Everybody, young or old, is blown away by it. Then I take them across the street to the Colonial and the Euclid. Then there's Tower City. Shopping, yes. But I always took my kids to the fountains and they loved it, and then to the food court to look out over the river at the ore boats and the teams of scullers. Or just walk around looking at the architecture, of which downtown Cleveland still has wonderful examples despite demolitions to accommodate life-sucking casinos. Then there's the Mall. What a wonderful greenspace! Just hang out, or look at the skyline. Or walk north and look out over the lake, the Browns stadium and the Rock Hall. Wander over to Playhouse Square, gawk at the marquees. I'm sorry. I've got no sympathy for arguments about the cost of parking or being slowed down by kids. Take the kids, park free at W. 150th, take the train -- the kids'll love it! A fun ride! A novelty! A majestic view of the skyline leaping up at you as you cross over the Flats and gaze at the panoramic panoply of bridges. Plus, it will make the kids appreciate transit, instead of being afraid or dismissive. Having kids along is one of the best reasons for going downtown, and you don't even have to go to museums or restaurants or anything else that costs money.

In my suburb, we have 2 awesome, huge playgrounds to take him to. We take him to the metroparks, less than half a mile away, to play, go for a stroller ride, go for a 5 mile backpack hike. We go to the library in either middleburg or strongsville when it's raining, they have story time for kids and a great play area for children with lots of toys, play stoves, etc. We go to chuck E cheese when desperate. We go to Amazone and let him crawl around on the toddler play area. We go see the fire trucks at the fire station (with an appointment). We go to the pool. We go to Huntington Beach for the day. There's nothing to DO at Voinovich park, it's just a plain park, right? Walk around the pier is entertaining for about 2 minutes at 2 years old.

^ I can't imagine Voinivich would be any more or less engaging to a 2 year old then the Metro Parks, its more about how you interact with them while your there. The library downtown is beautiful and I would be willing to bet they have story-time and such for a youngster. Now, as far as playgrounds go you've got me there, that would a be a nice thing to see downtown.

Is it about catering to the whims of a 2-year-old, or about exposing a 2-year-old to the wider world? A 2-year-old can make more-creative use of an open park than an adult can.

I can't imagine that a 2-year old would enjoy a 5-mile hike any more than walking around the pier/lakefront.  When I was about 4 years old, I remember my parents taking my younger brother and I downtown for a show at Playhouse Square (Sesame Street Live I believe).  For exercise and the experience, we parked in the WHD and walked all the way to PHS, and then back afterward.  We absolutely loved it and is still one of my favorite childhood memories.  Beat the pants off a lame hike in the woods for me.

I know you guys don't like to hear the reasons behind this, I'm just explaining. At our metroparks, we have a big pond where there are ducks and geese. There is a waterfall. There are picnic pavilions and grills and we sometimes bring food and have a picnic. We play chase in the trees. There's just more to work with from an imagination and practicality aspect than a plain piece of flat land.

 

The downtown library isn't even open on Sundays! I've never seen them advertising any kind of story time for kids. I am a "friend" of the cleveland library and get their mailings, have never seen much of anything kid-related advertised that I can recall.

Urban, I admire your optimism and agree that kids might enjoy the trip to downtown on occasion. However, it seems like a lot of effort for relatively little benefit, as again, there just aren't enough kid-friendly amenities to be worth this effort. A parent isn't going to go through this effort just so the kid can play at a tiny park, and you can only take them to the science museum so much.

 

Going downtown and finding stuff to do shouldn't be a chore, so why people would an otherwise busy parent do it outside of the occasional adventure or promoting the city to the kids.

Wow, a lame hike in the woods? You think hiking is lame? There's nothing I can say to that, that is ridiculous. Nature is beautiful.

Wow, a lame hike in the woods? You think hiking is lame? There's nothing I can say to that, that is ridiculous. Nature is beautiful.

 

Wow, nothing to do on the lakefront? You think walking around the lakefront is boring? There's nothing I can say to that, that is ridiculous. Nature is beautiful.

 

See, it works both ways.

 

My point is that I think it has more to do with people not wanting to stray outside of their comfort zone than there actually not being anything to do downtown for kids.  Sure, there are things you can do with the kids in the suburbs.  But there are things for kids to experience downtown that they can't in the suburbs as well.  Running around the grass on the Mall is just as fun as (or more fun than) running around in the grass at the Metroparks.

 

Some kids will like the woods, sure.  And some would rather walk amongst skyscrapers and marvel at all the activity downtown.  I didn't enjoy woods when I was young (or at least for an extended amount of time, it gets rather repetitive after a while to me), but I loved the variety and activity downtown.  Obviously, this will be different for each child.  I don't see one as being obviously superior to the other, though.

 

However, I do question how in the world a 2-year old can go on a 5-mile hike.  http://www.babycenter.com/0_hiking-with-your-child_8256.bc#articlesection3

grass on the mall? What mall. The one all torn up from medical mart construction?

grass on the mall? What mall. The one all torn up from medical mart construction?

 

Has it always been torn up?  Will it always be torn up?  That's a little short-sighted, isn't it?

 

Besides, there is green space at Mall A.  And by the Science Center.

My point of posting the results of the poll was not to start an argument. It's to let you know what the perception is of downtown. I can tell you my kid is a lot more excited seeing a chuck e cheese or a playground than a plain field. It's not that we can't have fun in a plain field, but when you're thinking about what kids like to do and see and what parents like to take them to, particularly in a place where it's often raining or snowing for a large chunk of the year, downtown is pretty limited.

Well it's kind of a chicken and egg problem as far as playgrounds and retail go.  These things didn't exist in many suburbs until people with kids starting moving out there.

 

I still think that regardless of what people say, mostly it boils down to people being so used to the suburbs that it's their comfort zone.

I think that another thing Cleveland lacks to draw in families and kids is an interactive park.  Something like a Milenium Park or City Park in St. Louis.  Cleveland could easily have this if it finally got its act together with redeveloping and recreating public square.

Voinevich Park could also become this if it added things like food vendors, swan boats, etc creating a more festival like atmosphere.  But right now the park has very little programing and interactive activities.

My point of posting the results of the poll was not to start an argument. It's to let you know what the perception is of downtown. I can tell you my kid is a lot more excited seeing a chuck e cheese or a playground than a plain field. It's not that we can't have fun in a plain field, but when you're thinking about what kids like to do and see and what parents like to take them to, particularly in a place where it's often raining or snowing for a large chunk of the year, downtown is pretty limited.

 

A plain field that's surrounded by a Great Lake...Are you saying the weather patterns downtown are different than your suburb?!

I think that another thing Cleveland lacks to draw in families and kids is an interactive park.  Something like a Milenium Park or City Park in St. Louis.  Cleveland could easily have this if it finally got its act together with redeveloping and recreating public square.

 

We dont have one place we have several.  Shaker Lakes, Wade Lagon, the Cultural gardens, etc.  Not downtown, but things we are not lacking.

Well, actually yes! My Mom lives in Lakewood and we often marvel at how different our weather is at my place than her place. It will be raining at my place and sunshine at hers.

 

My point was that saying "there's a mall downtown to play on" doesn't act as a draw of things to do during the crappy weather times. There's nothing else to do. I'm not paying $50 to get my family into the science center when we can go to CEC for free and just eat some salad bar food. Or to the mall where there's a TRAIN that runs through it. Where are the indoor activities? The fun attractions for families?

Well, actually yes! My Mom lives in Lakewood and we often marvel at how different our weather is at my place than her place. It will be raining at my place and sunshine at hers.

 

My point was that saying "there's a mall downtown to play on" doesn't act as a draw of things to do during the crappy weather times. There's nothing else to do. I'm not paying $50 to get my family into the science center when we can go to CEC for free and just eat some salad bar food. Or to the mall where there's a TRAIN that runs through it. Where are the indoor activities? The fun attractions for families?

In specifics, name venues, or list the type of venues that would be of interest to families with children 6 and under.

*sigh*

 

Never mind. Keep your head in the sand and insist that suburban people are just stupid and narrow minded. I'm not interested in arguing about this, I wanted you all to know the results of the survey I took.

I think that another thing Cleveland lacks to draw in families and kids is an interactive park.  Something like a Milenium Park or City Park in St. Louis.  Cleveland could easily have this if it finally got its act together with redeveloping and recreating public square.

 

We dont have one place we have several.  Shaker Lakes, Wade Lagon, the Cultural gardens, etc.  Not downtown, but things we are not lacking.

 

Those assets are much more nature focused and are different than an interactive downtown park.  This is still something I feel Cleveland is lacking. And on your point about the Cultural gardens.  This is not a place that families frequently visit.  In general Clevelander's visit the Cultural Garden very infrequency and many don't even know about it.  This is definitive an asset that needs to get publicized more.  I would like to see UCI try to promote it more.

Responding to a response earlier in this thread, but what would a two year old want to do downtown?  Hanging out downtown as a tot changed my entire life.  Louis Kahn had a great quote once, "the city is a place where a young boy may find what he wants to do for the rest of his life."

But, realistically, what does a young boy do in downtown Cleveland for the better part of a day in 2011?

I think that another thing Cleveland lacks to draw in families and kids is an interactive park.  Something like a Milenium Park or City Park in St. Louis.  Cleveland could easily have this if it finally got its act together with redeveloping and recreating public square.

 

One of the best kids parks I've seen in Greater Cleveland is actually the Tony Brush Park in Little Italy.

http://playgroundguide.blogspot.com/2008/07/tony-brush-park-little-italy-cleveland.html

 

A friend of mine who lives in Middleburg Heights takes his little boy over there on the Rapid and they both love the playground, which seems to keep getting bigger and better every year. Although they both stop playing every time a freight train or a rapid goes by! His boy takes after his dad. :) Then they head over to one of the sidewalk cafes to get some gelato and to use the the restroom before going home.

 

Rockandroller, thanks for posting. Those responses were interesting.

 

The common theme of the responses was "I go downtown less than I used to before I had kids." I bet that most mothers with small children do less of EVERYTHING then they used to before they had kids. It takes a lot of time to raise a child, and the first two years are probably the most work.

 

Every hour spent feeding the child, bathing the child,, dressing the child, washing clothes, preparing food, shopping for groceries, changing diapers, etc., is one less hour available for other things. Of course the woman is going to spend less time downtown than she used to.

 

As far as parks and things for kids to do, chances are that the suburban family is going to go to a suburban park for the simple reason that it is closer. This is the same reason why suburban families usually shop at suburban grocery stores, go to suburban restaurants, etc. Plus, suburban facilities have free parking.

 

Get more families to LIVE downtown and there will be more 2-year olds downtown.

 

^ Good points.

But, realistically, what does a young boy do in downtown Cleveland for the better part of a day in 2011?

 

I've killed a day with my son downtown on several occassions.  Nothing like the father-son experience of going to an MLB game.  My boy can spend hours at the science center.  He can spend a good amount of time watching the trains and boats.  Lunch fits in there at some point.  Sometimes there is some interesting things gong on at the port.  And now, looking at all the construction sites can make any boy's eyes widen.  Looking forward to the addition of the aquarium.

My grandchildren (ages 3 and 4) love being downtown.  They love riding the Trolley to Tower City, then getting ice cream or french fries and then going to the Dollar Store for a small toy or the Tower City Cinemas for a movie.  They love going to the Library reading garden and playing with the fountain and the little figurines.  Next we go to the old library building and the kids room on the 4th floor.  There is a special story telling time, but I am not sure of the day and time.  My grandchildren love walking to the science center and exploring the Mather or watching an IMAX movie.  They love to walk around Voinavich park to see the water.  Sometimes we walk the other way to the river and watch the seagulls and ships.  I could go on and on, but suffice to say my grandchildren love being downtown.

*sigh*

 

Never mind. Keep your head in the sand and insist that suburban people are just stupid and narrow minded. I'm not interested in arguing about this, I wanted you all to know the results of the survey I took.

 

I don't believe anyone is saying that.  We - those here an on the other board you participate - have varying opinions.

 

I for one asked a question to better understand your position on bringing children downtown.

 

Responding to a response earlier in this thread, but what would a two year old want to do downtown?  Hanging out downtown as a tot changed my entire life.  Louis Kahn had a great quote once, "the city is a place where a young boy may find what he wants to do for the rest of his life."

I agree, granted my version of downtown, with Higbee's, Halle's , May Co., Hough Bakery, Woolworth's, the Central Market, etc. Is much different than someone who have lived without those things.  When my mom was a flight attendant, my brother and I loved riding the Shaker Rapid downtown.  When we got to Terminal Tower the conductor would always let us flip the switches that activated the strobe light and air horn.  Downtown was visual overload and everything seemed so big.  What little kid wouldn't love that.

 

My nephews and neices love hanging out with me when they were toddlers, the look in their eyes when we arrive downtown is great.  It helped them not only appreciate what they have but to understand their is a bigger world out there!

"Louis Kahn had a great quote once, "the city is a place where a young boy may find what he wants to do for the rest of his life."

 

When I was six years old (in 1978, when the city had declared default and if cleveland.com had existed back then, one could only imagine the comments section), I made my first visit to downtown Cleveland with my family. I remember very vividly seeing the Arcade, the Terminal Tower, etc. I definitely don't remember my parents bickering about finding cheap/free parking that was close to wherever we wanted to be. Being from a working class family from Appalachian Ohio, I certainly wouldn't blame them if they tried to find free parking - but that isn't what I'm grateful for, and it sure as hell isn't what I remember from that day.

 

Seeing the Arcade, the Terminal Tower, etc. left an incredible impression - one that's always stuck with me. It was an impression that inspired me 20 years later (when I landed a job in downtown Cleveland) to take a lot of photos of buildings and put together a website of the built environment of downtown Cleveland. 25 years after that first visit as a kid, I landed a book deal based on my website (mind you - the publishers approached me - how many published authors does that happen for?), and now about 5,000 people have a copy of my book on their coffee table. 32 years after that 1978 visit, the producers of a TV sitcom spotted a photo that they thought would be a good fit for their show - and that photo is now seen by about 50 million people in 170 countries. And all of that - yeah, it started when my parents decided to take me for a little walk around downtown Cleveland in 1978 - pre-Great Lakes Science Center, pre-Rock Hall, post-Euclid Avenue shopping heyday, sans splash parks, etc. I'm just saying :-)

 

Excellent post Mayday.  Not being able to find entertainment for a kid has less to do with not enough things for a kid to do downtown than a lack of creativity on the parents' part.  I don't have kids and if one was thrown in my lap at this second, the only place I wouldn't have a hard time entertaining them for several hours is downtown/the city.  Feeding pigeons, watching freighters, taking the rapid, the Arcade, staring at the Terminal Tower, eating hot dogs on the street, riding bikes, throwing pennies in fountains, looking at construction (or demo) sites...  Basically showing a kid the biggest and most complex things he or she has EVER seen in their short lives.  It really can leave an impression... and it's mostly free.

I have a feeling that most of the disconnect that there is "nothing to do" comes from our microwave society.  Everyone wants life manufactured and handed to to them.  Taking time to formulate a plan of things to do without being told is a not simple.  It takes time.  All the information about what is happening in a city, any city, is scattered all over the place.  Whereas a single destination like Cocker Park or the Metroparks will have all of their events in one place.  This makes finding events or attractions that aren't blatently obvious, like an Indians game, "work".  And people are just plain lazy.

Great observations by MayDay, W28th Street [you must know my Dad.  My Dad would let us run around and throw coins in the Hanna fountains back in the day], & Tedders55.  What tedders55 describes, perfectly, is the "Apple effect" lifestyle.

 

Oh......one other thing I used to think was amazingly cool as a kid was to Plane Spot from the observation deck at the airport.  My brother and I would plane spot for my Moms plane.  Those were the days.

As a suburbanite parent that loves downtown, but doesn't bring my kids down here often, I don't have a lot to add to the conversation except this. Downtown is interesting, and there are things to do here with kids, but the things to do aren't a lot more interesting than what I can do near home. To compel me to come downtown more often, there would have to be things to do that are significantly more interesting than things I can do near home.

 

For example, there's a great library downtown, but there's also a library half a mile my house. Sure when it's not under construction there's a great mall, but there's a park 100 feet from my house with more ball fields than teams to use them. From Voinovich Park I can see the lake, but there's also a park on the lake half a mile from my house. When the weather's bad, we could visit Tower City, or the Arcade, or we could go to mall. (True Story: My 4 year old daughter and I were in the Arcade this spring and she told me it looked like Great Lakes Mall, except taller, shinier, and without a playground in the middle.)

 

So I guess I'm saying that having equivelant attractions isn't good enough. They'd have to be better than what I can find near home to get me to bring the kids downtown. For example, the kids love taking the rapid (Almost as much as I do). They like the Science Center (Though it's a bit expensive). I keep meaning to take them up to the observation deck at Terminal Tower. Once the aquarium opens up we'll absolutely visit it. The occasional children's themed show at playhouse square is fun. In a few weeks we'll be downtown to watch the planes at the Airshow. In a couple years I'm sure I'll be bringing the kids to ball games, rib cookoffs, the taste of Cleveland, etc.

DT Cleveland is really no different, or treated much differently from suburban families then say dt Chicago as an example.  Sure, you will see alot more kids with their parents in dt Chicago than Cleveland, but that's becasuse they live there, and they are probably running errands with their family, or visiting their local park.  We as a family will go dt like I said probably 3 times a year.  Like many families, we are on a budget.  I will take the kids to a park by my house before I take them to a park dt.  In addition, we'll take them for mom and pop pizza or icecream locally before we go dt.  My oldest kids no we live in the Cleveland area, and they no when we are going into the city.  They can see that difference.  We just don't go all that often becasue it's extremely difficult, and gets expensive.  We have nothing against the city, nor do any of the parents in our neighborhood.