Recently I received a request for permission to post my 1991 Dayton trolley bus photos on a web site that features that topic. I think some of the forumers here might enjoy it; my rather brief foray into that site turned up some good photos of the trolleybus vehicles and infrastructure that included some interesting backgrounds of Dayton back when.

 

The site is here.

So are the bus tolley's still running in Dayton or not?  I was there about a month ago on Sunday and I never saw one the entire day.

So are the bus tolley's still running in Dayton or not?  I was there about a month ago on Sunday and I never saw one the entire day.

According to information on the daytontrolleys.net site, service has been temporarily suspended since June because of major street reconstruction on major trolleybus routes. New catenary support poles are being installed as part of those street reconstruction projects, along with a couple of miles of new wire to partially consolidate the 3 and 4 routes, indicating that some consipracy nuts' fears of the demise of the system are unfounded. Even when service has been in normal operation I haven't seen much ETB action on weekend visits; to see them out in force, go on a weekday, especially during peak business hours. You can see a few at work downtown in this weekday photo thread.

 

The fleet consists of Czech-built Skoda vehicles.

fun thread -- i think i did one too when those odd statues were up around downtown.

 

probably better that these tracks remain active, but still

there goes my dream of a highline park for downtown dayton!

 

 

Cory West's Dayton Trolleybus Site is up: http://cw.daytontrolleys.net/

 

There are quite a few shots of ETBs from various eras and a number of his photos taken at the shop facility showing the Skoda buses being serviced and repaired.

:clap:

I just posted about this under the transportation heading, go to mass transit and the Dayton RTA heading.  There are just two trolleys running weekdays AM rush hour and two running PM peak hour.  One takes an east-west route, the other a north-south route. RTA has recently invested a lot of time in training most of their operators on trolleys, and they are working on closing the gaps in the infrastructure network.  RTA's own analysis favors trolleys from an economic standpoint due to lower "fuel" (for lack of a better word) costs, but still...the system seems constantly hassled by "stimulus" highway projects and I-75 construction...all resulting in the inevitable detours and diesel substitutions.   

OK OK, here I am replying to my own post.  The minute I post something, it changes and renders my original post obsolete.  Gr. Dayton RTA just this week brought more trolleys back on line, now there are about 7 operating peak hour and 4 during off-peak most weekdays.  Route # 4 (east-west through downtown) uses trolleys pretty steady now.

Indeed, Dayton's trolleys are up and running on the combined 3/4 again.  More info and recent pictures here:

 

http://www.daytontrolleys.net

 

C'ya

Tom

 

 

@Slumcat:

 

Is that a recent (last two weeks?) photo of 9834?

 

The RTA's analysis (on daytontrolleys.net) in actually a "green" argument.  As in Benjamins.  They prefer trolley for the $6M of fixed guideway 5309 federal funding the existence of trolleys brings in every year.  Without that funding, the RTA would have to reduce service. 

 

C'ya

Tom

The trolleybus photos I took in 1991 were in response to news items that indicated the end of the system was imminent. I drove to Dayton and spent an afternoon photographing the ETBs and other downtown scenes. If you'd like to see those photos from 1991, click here.

RP: Yea, I remember the 1991 thing when everyone thought the trolleys were gone...and in the 70's after the public takeover of WW Owen's City Transit, a lot of people thought they were gone...seems like they do have 9 lives, don't they!  The "green" argument for trolleys doesn't hold water because the electricity is generated by burning coal.  The USC Sec. 5309 "fixed guideway" thing is a BIG BIG deal!  I think congress is debating re-authorization of the surface transportation act right now, I hope somebody inside the beltway is watching this and looking out for Dayton's interests, they need to keep doing the "fixed guideway" funding tier that grants additional monies to metro areas that have public transit running on track or wire.  Without 5309 "fixed guideway" I'd say probably...kiss'em goodbye, with one reservation...far lower and more stable power costs compared to diesels. 

 

cranston: that picture of a #4 trolley is a few years old

The "green" argument for trolleys doesn't hold water because the electricity is generated by burning coal. 

 

Except that the infrastructure is already there and largely amortized, and it can readily be adapted to more green energy as more comes on line. It would cost a lot more to reinstall the catenary later if it were removed now and scrapped because of the value of the copper. Plus, even with coal as an energy source, large central power plants with scrubbers and other controls likely are less environmentally damaging per horsepower hour than individual diesel engines installed where weight and mobility are concerns

The "green" argument for trolleys doesn't hold water because the electricity is generated by burning coal. 

 

Except that the infrastructure is already there and largely amortized, and it can readily be adapted to more green energy as more comes on line. It would cost a lot more to reinstall the catenary later if it were removed now and scrapped because of the value of the copper.

 

 

 

Right, nobody is talking about removing the infrastructure any more.  Cleaner coal would be great!  Not sure about this but I read somewhere the Calgary light rail system draws nearly 100% of its energy from a wind farm in southern Alberta just outside the city.

 

probably better that these tracks remain active,

 

 

Yup, It is better the tracks remain active...the tracks you photographed are part of BOTH the NS Heartland "Connector" (double-stack feeder to the Heartland Corridor) as well as a connector to the CSX Gateway project, providing fast double stack service to the new CSX terminal at North Baltimore OH.  For those of us who live along this line it appears that there has been a huge increase in traffic within the past 12 months.

The "green" argument for trolleys doesn't hold water because the electricity is generated by burning coal. 

 

Except that the infrastructure is already there and largely amortized, and it can readily be adapted to more green energy as more comes on line. It would cost a lot more to reinstall the catenary later if it were removed now and scrapped because of the value of the copper.

 

 

 

Right, nobody is talking about removing the infrastructure any more.  Cleaner coal would be great!  Not sure about this but I read somewhere the Calgary light rail system draws nearly 100% of its energy from a wind farm in southern Alberta just outside the city.

 

San Francisco's electrified mass transit is powered by hydroelectric stations, including one fed from the Hetch Hetchy reservoir. An environmental movement now under way wants to drain Hetch Hetchy and return the valley to Yosemite National Park, claiming that the hydropower generated from it isn't green energy because it involves the ongoing disruption of natural habitat.

With respect to the finance of transit operations, I believe the single greatest cost is not the fuel, but that person sitting at the wheel driving the vehicle.  This cost (burdened with salary and benefits) dwarfs the fuel costs. 

 

The San Francisco argument to have trolleys is the hills.  Trolleybuses have the ability to get up and go up a large grade, where diesel buses struggle.  But diesel bus performance has improved over the years, and you can gear diesels to get up the hills.  But the diesels don't do this nearly as well as the trolleys. 

 

Dayton does have quite a bit of infrastructure in the sky.  The RTA's 1986 plan was to make use of dual mode diesel electric buses, and they even brought one to Dayton to show it off back then.  However, this plan was about 25 years too early -- a good idea, but not supported by the state of technology.  Times change.  Today, you find hybrids on the street (like Dayton's Gilligs), and underneath, it's a smaller diesel engine driving a generator which makes 600V DC power.  Conveniently, 600V DC is what hangs in the air above the major streets in Dayton. 

 

I am given to understand that the hope for the next buy of trolleybuses to replace the current ones is to get a next generation trolleybus with significant diesel off wire capability (Philadelphia's trolleybuses from 2007 have diesel engines for off wire ops), or if you prefer, a diesel-electric hybrid with trolley poles in order to use the existing infrastructure.