January 27Jan 27 19 minutes ago, Htsguy said: Did they know how the fire actually started? Wow that is insane. It would be different if they JUST started the construction but to be almost done and having to restart has to be frustrating. Do they typically have insurance policies that cover these events?
January 27Jan 27 1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said: Do they typically have insurance policies that cover these events? Yes, but as we all know, insurance companies can be a-holes about this stuff. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 27Jan 27 55 minutes ago, KJP said: Yes, but as we all know, insurance companies can be a-holes about this stuff. Sucks because this was my favorite suburban project, I loved the scale and density of it especially with the location. I liked it better than the Ascent due to how it fit with its surroundings.
January 27Jan 27 On 1/25/2025 at 10:14 AM, enginerd12 said: There’s next to no chance they reuse any portion of it. Between smoke damage, water/ice damage, and structural analysis, a full rebuild would honestly be cheaper. Id be shocked if they can even reuse the foundation. Yeah, wood hides significant damage (water or fire) much better than metal or even plastic. It wouldn't be worth the risk.
January 27Jan 27 On 1/24/2025 at 9:12 PM, KJP said: So many of these are wood-framed. Like Zimmerman's condos in Rocky River. Went up like a bonfire. Anyone had enough of 2025 yet? If I'm a municipal building commissioner I'm going to do my best to place a moratorium on large wood frame construction until it's figured out what's going on. Three in recent years, all in suburbs that aren't at all lax about their requirements.
January 27Jan 27 Sounds like the second building was not affected at all. Maybe they dont need to start from scratch after all. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-heights-project-marquee-damaged-fire "Cleveland Heights Fire Chief James Harry confirmed to WKYC that the fire left the affected building, located at 13230 Cedar Rd., “unsalvageable.” The 74,230-square-foot building was slated to house 139 of the project's 204 luxury apartment residences and 1,200 square feet for undesignated retail and amenities. The project's second building, located on Lee Rd., between Tullamore Rd. and Meadowbrook Blvd., was not affected, fire officials told media."
January 27Jan 27 5 hours ago, Htsguy said: Did they know how the fire actually started? I didn't ask. I bet an investigation will have to be done and we may never know for sure.
January 27Jan 27 2 hours ago, E Rocc said: If I'm a municipal building commissioner I'm going to do my best to place a moratorium on large wood frame construction until it's figured out what's going on. Three in recent years, all in suburbs that aren't at all lax about their requirements. Why don't you ban cars while you're at it. I hear they get into accidents sometimes. ;)
January 27Jan 27 20 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: Why don't you ban cars while you're at it. I hear they get into accidents sometimes. ;) I doubt the ratios are comparable. One wouldn't justify it, two probably not. Three......
January 27Jan 27 2 hours ago, TDi said: Sounds like the second building was not affected at all. Maybe they dont need to start from scratch after all. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-heights-project-marquee-damaged-fire "Cleveland Heights Fire Chief James Harry confirmed to WKYC that the fire left the affected building, located at 13230 Cedar Rd., “unsalvageable.” The 74,230-square-foot building was slated to house 139 of the project's 204 luxury apartment residences and 1,200 square feet for undesignated retail and amenities. The project's second building, located on Lee Rd., between Tullamore Rd. and Meadowbrook Blvd., was not affected, fire officials told media." Second building is already occupied. So we already have some new apartments in the area. Unfortunately the building that got burnt down was about twice the size of the completed one and was set to house basically all of the amenities. Hopefully insurance pays out and this building gets rebuilt eventually. Also, if this was arson, here's hoping the guilty party is caught and finds justice.
January 27Jan 27 56 minutes ago, Ethan said: Second building is already occupied. So we already have some new apartments in the area. Unfortunately the building that got burnt down was about twice the size of the completed one and was set to house basically all of the amenities. Hopefully insurance pays out and this building gets rebuilt eventually. Also, if this was arson, here's hoping the guilty party is caught and finds justice. Ahh got it, I didn't realize that. I thought by second building they meant it was part of the project being built.
January 28Jan 28 5 hours ago, TDi said: Ahh got it, I didn't realize that. I thought by second building they meant it was part of the project being built. It is the same project, but it was started earlier than the other building and therefore is further along.
January 28Jan 28 From the Crain's article today, seems promising: "Seren assured that the city of Cleveland Heights is “dedicated to rebuilding” and to no unnecessary delays in the progress of the rebuild. Seren also spoke with Deron S. Kintner, Vice President of Development & Special Advisor at Flaherty & Collins Properties, and stated that they are “fully on board as partners with the city in the completion of this phase” of the project, Seren said". Sounds like at the moment they're gonna finish it whatever it takes 🙏
January 28Jan 28 18 hours ago, E Rocc said: If I'm a municipal building commissioner I'm going to do my best to place a moratorium on large wood frame construction until it's figured out what's going on. Three in recent years, all in suburbs that aren't at all lax about their requirements. at a minimum you'd think they'd be more vigilant about this. I'm assuming plumbing isn't far along enough yet for sprinklers to be installed, but an investment of this size I would think would justify remote monitoring if not some on-site personnel 24/7. really curious how long the origin fire burned before completely engulfing the structure. then again I know exactly nothing about construction so..
January 28Jan 28 1 hour ago, Jax said: at a minimum you'd think they'd be more vigilant about this. I'm assuming plumbing isn't far along enough yet for sprinklers to be installed, but an investment of this size I would think would justify remote monitoring if not some on-site personnel 24/7. really curious how long the origin fire burned before completely engulfing the structure. then again I know exactly nothing about construction so.. Maybe insurance companies will start demanding 24/7 security?
January 28Jan 28 12 minutes ago, Cleburger said: Maybe insurance companies will start demanding 24/7 security? That was my thought too, especially if it ends up being arson
January 28Jan 28 47 minutes ago, Cleburger said: Maybe insurance companies will start demanding 24/7 security? Ugh, as if construction costs weren't high enough already. Edited January 28Jan 28 by Zagapi grammar
January 28Jan 28 Could have been spontaneous combustion which though rare, happens during construction and rehabs. There was a house being rehabbed that caught on fire due to spontaneous combustion from rags and sawdust on Meadowbrook in University Heights a couple of years ago. The lot is still vacant today, but I doubt for long as the market there is still hot.
January 28Jan 28 2 hours ago, Zagapi said: Ugh, as if construction costs weren't high enough already. Not an expert but would building several, mid-size buildings (instead of 1 larger one on this site), have minimized the damage while leaving some units salvageable? I assume this would typically be more expensive due to the extra staircases required, but I'd wonder if it would be easier to finance if built one at a time.
January 28Jan 28 I will be surprised if the fire was caused by anything other than a temporary heat source.
January 29Jan 29 I also include a development site plan in the article to more easily understand what was damaged and not damaged by the fire Developer to rebuild after Cleveland Hts fire By Ken Prendergast / January 29, 2025 The developer of the Marquee development has informed Cleveland Heights city officials that it will rebuild the structure that was destroyed by an overnight fire that began Jan. 25. The 139-unit Marquee at Cedar-Lee building fronting Cedar Road in the 13200 block, was still under construction and unoccupied at the time of the fire, which started about 7 p.m. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/01/29/developer-to-rebuild-after-cleveland-hts-fire/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 29Jan 29 I really hope they don't lollygag on clearing the garage to be used. Because that garage being unavailable may really hurt local businesses.
January 29Jan 29 2 hours ago, KJP said: I also include a development site plan in the article to more easily understand what was damaged and not damaged by the fire Developer to rebuild after Cleveland Hts fire By Ken Prendergast / January 29, 2025 The developer of the Marquee development has informed Cleveland Heights city officials that it will rebuild the structure that was destroyed by an overnight fire that began Jan. 25. The 139-unit Marquee at Cedar-Lee building fronting Cedar Road in the 13200 block, was still under construction and unoccupied at the time of the fire, which started about 7 p.m. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/01/29/developer-to-rebuild-after-cleveland-hts-fire/ Does any part of this depend on insurance coming through, or are they committed to rebuilding even if insurance won't cover it?
January 29Jan 29 55 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: I really hope they don't lollygag on clearing the garage to be used. Because that garage being unavailable may really hurt local businesses. As a resident - if it's up to the city, don't hold your breath. However, given there's a developer with money on the line - and time being of the essence, perhaps there's a change they move quickly.
January 30Jan 30 17 hours ago, Ethan said: Does any part of this depend on insurance coming through, or are they committed to rebuilding even if insurance won't cover it? I would have to imagine it's 100% contingent on insurance coming through, lol. Otherwise, where is the money coming from. If they have a good agent and a good insurer, hopefully this isn't a problem at all. Insurance companies can obviously be terrible, but there are still plenty good ones out there. And the process of negotiating with an insurer related to a $60 million commercial loss is not remotely the same as when you're trying to get your home insurance to pay for a new roof. Keep in mind it's not just the developer and the insurer involved. There's also a financier, which is probably a bank, and they probably want this project to get rebuilt ASAP so they get paid too. So depending on who the bank is and who the insurer is, the bank may have a ton of leverage here.
January 30Jan 30 51 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: I would have to imagine it's 100% contingent on insurance coming through, lol. Otherwise, where is the money coming from. If they have a good agent and a good insurer, hopefully this isn't a problem at all. Insurance companies can obviously be terrible, but there are still plenty good ones out there. And the process of negotiating with an insurer related to a $60 million commercial loss is not remotely the same as when you're trying to get your home insurance to pay for a new roof. Keep in mind it's not just the developer and the insurer involved. There's also a financier, which is probably a bank, and they probably want this project to get rebuilt ASAP so they get paid too. So depending on who the bank is and who the insurer is, the bank may have a ton of leverage here. FWIW when we had our industrial fire in 2014, the insurer definitely came through. We were a going concern of course, but I wouldn't imagine it's much different for construction.....unless it is indeed arson.
February 6Feb 6 Nobility Court has begun site preparation and underground utility connections. Noble Road is closed from Greyton to Woodview in the daytime only, I'm pretty sure, for the next five days.
February 11Feb 11 The state fire marshal investigating the Marquee blaze “has not found any evidence that the building was tampered with before the Jan. 24 fire,” according to a Cleveland.com story. This wording is encouraging, but a bit odd. It doesn’t say “not arson,” and it doesn’t say what “tampered with” might be. Evidence of a break-in? Many of the doors didn’t have locks installed yet. https://www.cleveland.com/community/2025/02/no-evidence-of-tampering-as-probe-into-marquee-at-cedar-lee-fire-continues.html
February 12Feb 12 Does anyone have a citation to how much it cost to build the Cedar-Lee garage? And what is the annual maintenance cost? (And for the garage at Coventry)
February 18Feb 18 https://www.cleveland.com/community/2025/02/cleveland-heights-council-gets-update-on-potential-severance-town-center-redevelopment.html Cleveland Heights council gets update on potential Severance Town Center redevelopment
February 18Feb 18 Might be time to let this one go back to nature. Failed indoor mall, failed outdoor mall, limited community resources, oversaturation of existing suburban retail, changing spending patterns, slumlord owner, decades of crime (mall riots, WalMart riots, movie theater riots, etc) not forgotten, labor and supply cost escalations, debatable commercial tenant and resident demand, and so on. New housing, if that ever happens, can go elsewhere. Let it go Cleveland Heights. All the feel good surveys and "crowdsourcing" won't revive the blight. There are other neighborhoods that need attention. Edited February 18Feb 18 by TBideon
February 18Feb 18 34 minutes ago, Geowizical said: https://www.cleveland.com/community/2025/02/cleveland-heights-council-gets-update-on-potential-severance-town-center-redevelopment.html Cleveland Heights council gets update on potential Severance Town Center redevelopment Quote Work continues on the potential redevelopment of the Severance Town Center, with zoning changes expected by the end of the year. Not a huge update -- they will ask for some zoning changes sometime in 2025, and they will continue to do some community engagement. Unclear what kind of community engagement they have in mind.
February 18Feb 18 Cedar-Lee fire -- On 2/10/2025 at 7:45 PM, Quilliam said: The state fire marshal investigating the Marquee blaze “has not found any evidence that the building was tampered with before the Jan. 24 fire,” according to a Cleveland.com story. This wording is encouraging, but a bit odd. It doesn’t say “not arson,” and it doesn’t say what “tampered with” might be. Evidence of a break-in? Many of the doors didn’t have locks installed yet. https://www.cleveland.com/community/2025/02/no-evidence-of-tampering-as-probe-into-marquee-at-cedar-lee-fire-continues.html The city has issued a demolition order. I heard a rumor that the fire marshal's investigation of the site is complete (except the final report). Speculation locally is that they're probably waiting for the insurance company to sign off before demolition can begin. Local businesses are not happy about Cedar Road closure and closure of the parking garage.
February 18Feb 18 21 minutes ago, TBideon said: Might be time to let this one go back to nature. Failed indoor mall, failed outdoor mall, limited community resources, oversaturation of existing suburban retail, changing spending patterns, slumlord owner, decades of crime (mall riots, WalMart riots, movie theater riots, etc) not forgotten, labor and supply cost escalations, debatable commercial tenant and resident demand, and so on. New housing, if that ever happens, can go elsewhere. Let it go Cleveland Heights. All the feel good surveys and "crowdsourcing" won't revive the blight. There are other neighborhoods that need attention. Just to be clear, this is not a City of Cleveland Heights project. Severance is owned by a national mall slumlord, Namdar, and they have a partnership with MPACT. (Namdar already sold a parcel with a Home Depot on it and recouped their purchase price. I say they are a slumlord because they are doing zero maintenance on the property -- it is slowly returning to nature on its own.) MPACT has about 18 months to come up with a plan for redevelopment that Namdar likes, and if MPACT passes that test then MPACT will apply for zoning changes to begin implementing the plan. The presentation to city council was just a courtesy for this private development (although there is a local controlling board for the entirety of the Severance property that will have some say in the matter and I think some city officials are on that board); likely because they will want the city to endorse the development plan once it is released. The city isn't doing anything, which is what you seem to be recommending.
February 18Feb 18 MPACT is or was seeking a public/private partnership. https://heightsobserver.org/read/2025/01/31/development-partner-outlines-process-for-revitalizing-severance#:~:text=MPact aims to redevelop the,Namdar Realty Group%2C Severance's owner. Development partner outlines process for revitalizing Severance
February 18Feb 18 1 hour ago, TBideon said: MPACT is or was seeking a public/private partnership. https://heightsobserver.org/read/2025/01/31/development-partner-outlines-process-for-revitalizing-severance#:~:text=MPact aims to redevelop the,Namdar Realty Group%2C Severance's owner. Development partner outlines process for revitalizing Severance Yes; someday in the future, under who knows what terms. For now, the City is a bystander. Namdar owns all the property inside the ring road (except the Home Depot parcel). MPACT still has to convince Namdar to sign on to a redevelopment plan for that property, which is what MPACT is planning to present to Namdar later this year. Namdar could still decline to participate and send MPACT packing. Until MPACT presents its plan to Namdar and Namdar signs off on it, it's a concept awaiting a plan. The City's role in all of this is down the road.
February 18Feb 18 I'm not generally a fan of Belle Oaks development I don't like its layout especially with the size of the land. So with this being a similar but larger (correct me if I'm wrong) piece of land I feel that this won't be transformative or anything close to it which is a shame. If they do break it up into phases, make it cohesive and make each phase unique I will change my tune. Edited February 19Feb 19 by MyPhoneDead
February 18Feb 18 1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said: I'm not generally a fan of Belle Oaks development I don't like its layout especially with the size of the land. This is larger (correct me if I'm wrong) I feel that this won't be transformative or anything close to it which is a shame because the can break this up and make each section so unique. What does Belle Oaks have to do with Severance, or you're just making that statement? It doesn’t sound like they even have a development plan yet, so a little premature to pass that kind of judgement. The article states that they plan to work with development partners for each part of their redevelopment plan, so perhaps each phase will be unique.
February 19Feb 19 2 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said: What does Belle Oaks have to do with Severance, or you're just making that statement? It doesn’t sound like they even have a development plan yet, so a little premature to pass that kind of judgement. The article states that they plan to work with development partners for each part of their redevelopment plan, so perhaps each phase will be unique. I used it as a comparison. Two large land areas that were very car oriented malls with peaks around the same time. I think individual phased would allow this to have an organic feel. If done right this could be a boom for Cleveland heights.
February 19Feb 19 20 hours ago, TBideon said: Might be time to let this one go back to nature. Failed indoor mall, failed outdoor mall, limited community resources, oversaturation of existing suburban retail, changing spending patterns, slumlord owner, decades of crime (mall riots, WalMart riots, movie theater riots, etc) not forgotten, labor and supply cost escalations, debatable commercial tenant and resident demand, and so on. New housing, if that ever happens, can go elsewhere. Let it go Cleveland Heights. All the feel good surveys and "crowdsourcing" won't revive the blight. There are other neighborhoods that need attention. Wow, I don't agree with this at all. Severance Circle currently is home to: 1. CH City Hall. 2. CH Muni Court 3. A large and newly renovated MetroHealth facility with a full service ER. 4. Several large apartment buildings. 5. A good sized USPS. 6. A rather large multi-tenant medical office building. And that's not including any of the retail tenants (there are several large ones). It is not "blighted." It's also not a middle-of-nowhere location that should "go back to nature." It was doing kind of okay until Wal-Mart left, which started dominoes of many other closures. That was just over ten years ago. The stores that are still there are plenty nice. It's just a largely abandoned mall complex with a terrible landlord. And it's sort of Wal-Mart's fault more than the landlord, because they broke lease and kept paying rent for years, which gave the landlord little incentive to prioritize the site in any way, since it was still generating good revenue. My impression from the stories is that Namdar (the landlord) is looking at giving up smaller pieces of land bit by bit for development. That seems like a perfectly reasonable strategy that is likely to succeed. New housing can't just "go elsewhere." This is the only site in Cleveland Heights with significant available land south of Mayfield. The next biggest one I can think of is the parking lot behind Marcs on Coventry and that's like two acres maybe. The site is also immediately adjacent to multiple very large Orthodox Jewish communities with absolutely ballooning population. So there would be a huge demand for quality housing options there. Cleveland Heights has had success after success with developers over the last several years. So why would they just throw in the towel on this one when the ONLY real obstacle for the last decade has been the landlord and they're finally starting to play ball.
February 19Feb 19 2 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said: Wow, I don't agree with this at all. Severance Circle currently is home to: 1. CH City Hall. 2. CH Muni Court 3. A large and newly renovated MetroHealth facility with a full service ER. 4. Several large apartment buildings. 5. A good sized USPS. 6. A rather large multi-tenant medical office building. And that's not including any of the retail tenants (there are several large ones). It is not "blighted." It's also not a middle-of-nowhere location that should "go back to nature." It was doing kind of okay until Wal-Mart left, which started dominoes of many other closures. That was just over ten years ago. The stores that are still there are plenty nice. It's just a largely abandoned mall complex with a terrible landlord. And it's sort of Wal-Mart's fault more than the landlord, because they broke lease and kept paying rent for years, which gave the landlord little incentive to prioritize the site in any way, since it was still generating good revenue. My impression from the stories is that Namdar (the landlord) is looking at giving up smaller pieces of land bit by bit for development. That seems like a perfectly reasonable strategy that is likely to succeed. New housing can't just "go elsewhere." This is the only site in Cleveland Heights with significant available land south of Mayfield. The next biggest one I can think of is the parking lot behind Marcs on Coventry and that's like two acres maybe. The site is also immediately adjacent to multiple very large Orthodox Jewish communities with absolutely ballooning population. So there would be a huge demand for quality housing options there. Cleveland Heights has had success after success with developers over the last several years. So why would they just throw in the towel on this one when the ONLY real obstacle for the last decade has been the landlord and they're finally starting to play ball. Agreed. There's also the Severance Place condominium complex (a converted 6-story office building) that fronts Mayfield Road between the old movie theater and city hall. Units appear available for rent online ($1,500/month for 1 bed, 1 bath, 1,050 sf). And on the eastern edge of the property is the Courtyards of Severance, a 51-unit grouping of townhomes with its own HOA and management firm (Coral). Per county tax records, the parcels appear to be worth something in the $200-250k range. It's about a 15-minute commute from the parcel to all the jobs in University Circle, so there should be plenty of built-in residential demand now and in the future. Edited February 19Feb 19 by Down_with_Ctown
February 19Feb 19 2 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said: Wow, I don't agree with this at all. . The site is also immediately adjacent to multiple very large Orthodox Jewish communities with absolutely ballooning population. So there would be a huge demand for quality housing options there. Hmmmm.....is there an Orthodox synagogue within walking distance? If not, put one there and put housing adjacent. They prefer to walk to shul on the Sabbath.
February 19Feb 19 Rebuild Cleveland, FutureHeights unite to add housing By Ken Prendergast / February 19, 2025 Rebuild Cleveland, LLC and FutureHeights, Inc. have embarked on an official collaboration to bring transformative infill housing development to Cleveland Heights. This partnership leverages Rebuild Cleveland’s considered approach to residential development and FutureHeights’ extensive track record of creatively engaging the community to develop exceptional housing that is responsive to the community’s needs and respectful of its architectural heritage. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/02/19/rebuild-cleveland-futureheights-unite-to-add-housing/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 19Feb 19 35 minutes ago, E Rocc said: Hmmmm.....is there an Orthodox synagogue within walking distance? If not, put one there and put housing adjacent. They prefer to walk to shul on the Sabbath. There are like five to ten.
February 19Feb 19 5 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said: 6. A rather large multi-tenant medical office building. Unfortunately, I hear that that building is now empty. Basement flooded, damaged the elevator equipment, among other issues. If true, that suggests that the building is overdue for an overhaul.
February 24Feb 24 The city is preparing to wall up the openings on the Marquee end of the Cedar-Lee garage so that it can be reopened, maybe this week, before the building is demolished. https://www.cleveland.com/community/2025/02/in-wake-of-apartment-fire-cleveland-heights-prepares-for-reopening-cedar-lee-parking-garage.html Edited February 24Feb 24 by Quilliam Remove accidental screenshot
February 25Feb 25 The former Unitarian Universalist church on Lancashire Road will be demolished for a new senior apartment building. "With strong community support, City Council last week approved the sale of two municipal parking lots to help clear the way for new senior housing in the Coventry neighborhood. The 71-unit apartment complex to be built on the site of the former Universalist Unitarian Church of Cleveland on Lancashire Road will need to come back to council for final approval of a formal development agreement." The two lots are on either side of the church; one is at the corner of Euclid Heights Blvd. (where an aprtment building was torn down in the 1970s). https://www.cleveland.com/community/2025/02/coventry-senior-housing-deal-rates-the-nod-from-cleveland-heights-council.html
February 26Feb 26 Workers are boarding up the Marquee end of the Cedar-Lee garage right now. Just plywood on 2 x 4 studs. The first floor appears done and maybe the second; studs are in for the third. I figure the garage may be open by the weekend.
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