oh ok, i thought it was interesting that there was no autozone in this area...

 

Im not too sad to see walmart leave. Ill never shop there regardless of where it is. I just know it tends to be the "big draw" in shopping centers, and would hate to see a domino affect from their leaving and end up with something like City View in Garfield

In walmarts defense though, the severance store is AWFUL. It is old, small, dirty, and low on inventory. the worst in Cleveland along with eastlake. For a decent Walmart experience I drive to mentor, north Olmsted, or strongsville. If I can handle it, steelyard. Though I hate severance taking a hit, it will be nice to have a new clean Walmart to go to near univ circle where I live. :)

 

I think all the Walmarts I've been to fit that description. That's why i spend my Big box dollars at Target. Walmart is rolling out new store concepts, one a little larger than A Walgreens, the other even smaller. They also have a concept for colleges. I think they believe they will have conquered the American suburbs once all their large stores are super Walmarts. Then they will be moving into America's inner cities and in some cases already have.

oh ok, i thought it was interesting that there was no autozone in this area...

 

Im not too sad to see walmart leave. Ill never shop there regardless of where it is. I just know it tends to be the "big draw" in shopping centers, and would hate to see a domino affect from their leaving and end up with something like City View in Garfield

In walmarts defense though, the severance store is AWFUL. It is old, small, dirty, and low on inventory. the worst in Cleveland along with eastlake. For a decent Walmart experience I drive to mentor, north Olmsted, or strongsville. If I can handle it, steelyard. Though I hate severance taking a hit, it will be nice to have a new clean Walmart to go to near univ circle where I live. :)

 

I think all the Walmarts I've been to fit that description. That's why i spend my Big box dollars at Target. Walmart is rolling out new store concepts, one a little larger than A Walgreens, the other even smaller. They also have a concept for colleges. I think they believe they will have conquered the American suburbs once all their large stores are super Walmarts. Then they will be moving into America's inner cities and in some cases already have.

 

They have also managed to put quite a few urban Wal-Marts here in Beijing, where it is quite popular... sooo yeah its not just America they are after! aaaaah! ok back on topic... I love nighttown!

Don't know about Dave's but know for a fact that Home Depot is trying to move to Oakwood Commons, as is nearby Target, though current layout does not have necessary acreage (24?) they need, but....

 

Hm, i havent heard anything about Home Depot. I hope that doesnt happen, as im sure that would cause the remaining stores to leave. i dont see Daves moving at all. or at least if they do, not out of this neighborhood. Interesting thing is though, that without Daves here, Walmart would have stayed. the lease has a no competition clause that Daves be the only grocery store in the center, so Walmart wasnt able to expand to the super walmart. I do think that if Home Depot leaves, we wont be staying here much longer either. were already down to being just one of 3 store fronts in our wing. one of which is the Army Recruiter...

^ What business are you referring to as "we wont be staying here much longer either."  Just curious.

^ What business are you referring to as "we wont be staying here much longer either."  Just curious.

 

Sorry, KeyBank. Its nothing "official" or anything from corporate or management. just our talk around the office. No need to start rumors that were leaving or anything!

Low inventories is not a problem caused by the building you're in. It's a decision by upper management.

No, this is actually due to the stores age and outdated status. They don't have the newest fixtures or display units and the format of the store is very odd. This store doesn't have as much product or variety as most other stores-- not to mention the registers and entrance are in a very awkward spot. Without a hatred for Walmart, you could definitely be more reasonable and realize the benefit for Walmart and its customers. Not so much for severance of course, but that's just how things go these days. Severance reminds me of steelyard commons, just less tenants and it doesn't look very nice. Never excited to take a trip anywhere there.

Inventory does not equal variety. Fixtures only matter when you have either management and staff that isn't motivated to make things work, or a corporate decision to under supply a store because of it. I wasn't arguing any other points. I wasn't arguing any other point than inventory count.

Back from the dead, reincarnated......

 

Planned development to add 77 apartments, 15k s/f commercial space to cedar-lee

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 2012

 

The City of Cleveland Heights has revived a plan to build a mixed-use building at the intersection of Meadowbrook and Lee roads in the Cedar-Lee District, and this time, the shovels actually may hit dirt.

 

The Orlean Company, which is already an active developer in Cleveland Heights, plans to build a four-story building that will include 77 market-rate rental apartments and nearly 15,000 square feet of commercial space. Orlean is the developer of the Kenilworth Mews and Bluestone developments in the city.

 

"This is a very urban development in a vibrant commercial district," says Stuart Friedman, a consultant with Orlean. "There's a lot of heavy lifting to go, but we think it will be an enduring asset of tremendous value for Cleveland Heights."

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/cedarleedevelopment092712.aspx

Very nice! I hope this one finally comes to fruit. its just awful looking at that lot when down there. I still think this city is still in need of more modern market rate apartments

This is the same project we have been discussing throughout this thread.  CH has some more modern condos, but I can't think of any modern market rate apartments.  It should fit help diversify the City's housing stock nicely

Back from the dead, reincarnated......

Planned development to add 77 apartments, 15k s/f commercial space to cedar-lee

 

Never heard about this, such awesome news.  I really hope it gets built.

This is the same project we have been discussing throughout this thread.  CH has some more modern condos, but I can't think of any modern market rate apartments.  It should fit help diversify the City's housing stock nicely

 

That former office building at Severance, right across Mayfield from Bluestone, that was converted not too long ago is being leased as apartments now. I think the sign out front said about 1500/mt

^That conversion was not well done from what I heard.  I haven't been inside.  But this development at Lee-Meadowbrook is still unique in that it is a new build.

 

Never heard about this, such awesome news.  I really hope it gets built.

 

The one f'in time I get the scoop on a development and nobody pays attention  :whip:

 

1.  The residential building which was planned along with the garage at Cedar-Lee is finally seriously back on the table.  The one developer I spoke to who is looking into the City's invitation for bids thinks a mixed use building would be ideal, with retail/entertainment on ground level.  I am talking about this lot....

 

If I understand correctly, proposals for the Cedar-Lee lot between Tullamore and Meadowbrook are being submitted this weekend.  The one rendering I saw will make people on this board very happy...... built to street, mixed use (rental units above), balconies, penthouses, a few outdoor patios for the 1st floor tenants on each side of the building and the UO deal closer.... a skywalk to the parking garage :)

 

^This development is what I had been hinting at upthread, but wanted to wait until something was made more public.  The building will be something like the Avenue district, with upper-floor terraces and ground-floor patios.  The only other proposals submitted for the lot, as I understand, were for assisted/senior living because the developers wanted to get financial assistance from state/federal programs.  The City made the right choice.  The holdup was the negotiation over the tax abatement.

 

Hts121, congrats on the scoop, love the new avatar and fix your quote at the bottom of your posts. There's a letter(s) missing at the start of it. Nice quote, BTW.

The Board of Ed has approved the tax abatement on the Lee/Meadowbrook project.  Apparently, Fran Mench was unable to convince them that building a new, modern apartment building with central air and indoor plumbing was going to steal tenants away from the City's other rental properties.  Now it heads to City Council for their rubber stamp

Good news indeed...

Hope it turns out well.  Fran Mench wasn't the only one protesting this project, but she did put together an interesting report of the large number of rental vacancies and housing foreclosures in the immediate area that left me with some doubts.  Let's hope that those rentals and foreclosures are only vacant because they aren't "new, modern" and lacked central air. 

 

If this project is successful, then it might be seen as a signal that CH needs to accelerate foreclosure demolitions so that more new, modern, and air-conditioned buildings can be built in their place.

 

While I can see a place for more modern housing in CH, I also would like to see more modern office space in CH to balance out all of the residential and provide a livelier daytime presence in that stretch of Lee Rd. 

 

The market for modern apartments is not the market for older apartments.  The market for houses has nothing to do with either one.  Different people want different things.

 

I agree about the need for offices to balance things out more.

This project includes offices.  It is as 'mixed-use' as they come.

 

I am 99% confident that this project can only have a positive impact on the vacancy rates in the surrounding neighborhood.  The competition for these units will be in UC and Downtown.  There really is no comparable rental building in CH.  It will appeal to a demographic which CH struggles to retain..... that being, the younger crowd which is not ready to buy, but wants modern amenities in their units.

^Agree,,,I constantly here complaints from the "younger crowd" wanting to live in CH but not wanting to live in the majority older apartment stock (many people like it but it is not for everybody).  There is very little like this in Cleveland Heights and I cannot help but believe it will help the surrounding older buildings and maybe even encourage investment in them that was not previously contemplated.

I agree with all the sentiments on this being a different product that CH does not have.  On the office discussion, while I know the developer is marketing the first floor space as mixed office, I met them and I got the feeling that while this is how they are advertising the project, they will lease to whomever they can get.  Don't be surprised if we see a national chain restaurant use here.  Not that they indicated this, but as we all know, chains like new product.  Think 5 guys, chipotle, menchies, starbucks all going to Cedar Center North. 

^Agree,,,I constantly here complaints from the "younger crowd" wanting to live in CH but not wanting to live in the majority older apartment stock (many people like it but it is not for everybody).  There is very little like this in Cleveland Heights and I cannot help but believe it will help the surrounding older buildings and maybe even encourage investment in them that was not previously contemplated.

 

Indeed, especially in this area which has some wonderful old buildings, but has seen a great deal of dis-investment over the years. 

 

Cleveland Heights has to do whatever it needs to do to encourage reinvestment in these properties, as well as to bring different and new products to these neighborhoods.  This should help with the sense of decline in this area. 

^^Hmm....I think a one or two "quality" chains are not a bad thing in an area that has established independents like Lee Rd. since it could bring in a different (and bigger) crowd that might also help other independents.  The trick is to get the mix right.  My bigger concern would be splitting a stagnant pie among more dining establishments.  More restaurants will require "more people" as some of the current places seem to be struggling as it is (never see anybody in that gyro place).

 

Starbucks?  We will see...they already failed in a great location right next to the theater.

^^Hmm....I think a one or two "quality" chains are not a bad thing in an area that has established independents like Lee Rd. since it could bring in a different (and bigger) crowd that might also help other independents.  The trick is to get the mix right.  My bigger concern would be splitting a stagnant pie among more dining establishments.  More restaurants will require "more people" as some of the current places seem to be struggling as it is (never see anybody in that gyro place).

 

Starbucks?  We will see...they already failed in a great location right next to the theater.

 

Not suggesting Starbucks, just using them as an example of a national retailer that is moving into Cedar Center North.

^^^I would argue that the perception of the Cedar-Lee area has actually improved over the past 20 years.  Perception of CH as a whole might have declined, and we can argue until the cows come home the reasons for that perception, but this particular neighborhood is somewhat different.  What was a McDonald's 20 years ago is the best Thai restaraunt in the Greater Cleveland area.  The pubs are as lively as ever.  There is a 24 hr CVS and a full service grocery store.  The library keeps getting better.  Whitmores is no more.  The HS's security has gotten tighter and the businesses on the strip aren't having the same trouble with students that they were in the late 80's / early 90's.

 

^I don't know about this development fitting the model of a chain restaraunt.... if for no other reason, there won't be dedicated parking for that restaraunt.  That's what makes Cedar Center North attractive to those businesses which have a model they try to fit no matter where the proposed location is.

 

^^Restaraunts struggle everywhere, anytime.  The failure rate for the restaraunt business is astounding.

I love how the neighborhoodies are so defensive. 

 

Look I love this area and will support it no matter what.  But its hard for me to believe that you can seperate the perception of Cleveland Heights and this neighborhood.  The decling quality of the surrounding housing stock and buildings is why Ms. Mench thought she had such an easy argument (as far as data and numbers).  Once you lose your more stable demographic from a community and neighborhood, its extemely hard to get that back these zero growth siturations. 

 

Therefore you cant just ignore the corresponding effects of the shifting population.  Again this is why I STRESS the new and different product as well as the stabilization of the housing stock etc...    Otherwise why would you even be for the public subsidies for this project?

I am not a 'neighborhoodie' (whatever that might mean).  I don't live in CH now and have never lived in the Cedar-Lee neighborhood.  If anyone constantly gets defensive, it's you with your constant 'shifting demographics' meme.  If you want to talk about cause and effect for whatever these shifts are that make you clutch your purse, I could argue that you need look no further than your own mirror.

 

I simply gave my opinion of the current state of Cedar-Lee, because I do frequent the neighborhood and I am well aware of where it was 20 years ago because I was there everyday back then.  Whatever utopia you think existed 20 years ago was not reality.  I wasn't being defensive at all.  That is honestly how I perceive it to be.

Thats good and all, but a neighborhood district is ultimately only going to be as healthy as the community it resides in. 

Ive been doing this for far too long for you to try to (predictably) paint it differently.  You are surrounded by some of the greatest and starkest examples and history of community change and corresponding consequences anywhere, so Im just not sure what you could possibly be gaining by ignoring that (does it somehow make it not so?). 

 

We agree on the outcome yet you still want to argue about it...  Sounds defensive to me. 

I'm just giving a different opinion, as usual, on your constantly repeated sentiment of the drastic decline of Cleveland Heights.  It almost seems like a reflex any and every time you make mention of the City.  Many people disagree with you and many people disagree with me.  That's why both of our perceptions are really nothing more than opinion, not fact.  People use different characteristics to judge decline.  I'm sure your career has led you to use certain formulas.  My life, especially when it comes to CH, has led me to use a different formula than you might have been taught.  Now can we get back to development?

I actually think you may be mixing things I say up with someone else on the forum that you also seem to clash with.   

Im a huge fan of Cleveland Heights and frankly always thought it was under rated (and thought I indicated that in your great photo threads), and thus why I recently chose to purchase a property very near there due to the wonderful and historic charcteristics.  But also likely why Im so adamant about some of the decisions that are made there (since I also think that it has such wonderful potential to better capitalize on growth out of University Circle). 

 

Thus my perceptions are certainly based on fact and a lifetime of learning about the community as well as constant research and interviews (but I never try to push something that isnt also backed up by facts, because then it is just my opinion)  I think because its all so second nature for me at this point that I sometimes forget and assume everyone else has the same understanding.       

 

When people that choose to stay also choose to ignore and make excuses for certain things, then I think your only doing more harm than good.  Nobody ends up a winner in that case, no matter the size of the chip on their shoulder.     

Hts, have you been to Ty Fun?  It got a 28 Zagat rating and IMO blows away Lemon Grass.

^I haven't.  I was basing my opinion off of some ranking I saw a few years back maybe in Cleveland Magazine?

 

^^Fair enough.  I just get frustrated because it seems we can never discuss DEVELOPMENT in CH on this board without the same 'shifting demographics' comments and the same BS, strawman "making excuses" schtick being tossed in.  Imagine how the mods would react if the same happened in the Tremont or OC developments thread.  I just think that discussion can be had in a different thread (City discussions?) if there is such a burning desire to do so.

Alright, can we get back to actual development news, folks?

Here's the story - http://clevelandheights.patch.com/articles/ch-uh-school-board-approves-tax-abatement-for-development-of-meadowbrook-and-lee

I have a hard time being convinced that a tax abatement for this development was necessary or fair.  However I do think that news out of C-L has been very positive lately , and this project will only add to that. 

 

A lot can be argued about the direction the city as a whole is headed (I'm not as pessimistic as I was a year or two back), but the city's three gem retail districts all seem to be getting better (assuming something or things can come in a quickly replace Myxx in C-F).

You can certainly argue that the abatement wasn't necessary or fair, but you the fact remains that it was a take it or leave it deal for the developer.  They weren't going to do the project without the abatement.  It wasn't icing on the cake.  It was a requirement.  When you look at the competition, you can understand why.  Each and every proposal depended on some kind of subsidy.  Personally, I would rather have a tax abatement than give the property to a different developer who was going to build something that would have HUD contingcies attached....... permanent contingencies, such as a low income component.  This was also the only proposal which envisioned a mixed use building.  So you can theorize about what might have come about in the future which failed to present ever since the Cincy developer screwed over the City, but it is hard to argue that the City had better options

As far as the direction CH is going:  I have 2 coworkers in their mid-20's (& single) who have bought relatively cheaper homes in CH in the past 2 years.  I know they bought there because of the proximity to work, there is nightlife in the area, & it gives them the ability to "flip" the home.  I have also heard of coworkers in their 20's mention that they wouldn't buy in CH (even though they currently rent there) because the taxes are too high and the majority of the housing stock is too old (requiring additional maintenance, etc).

 

I think if CH can attract young home buyers who will eventually get married and have a family and stay in CH then it can remain a strong city.

As far as the direction CH is going:  I have 2 coworkers in their mid-20's (& single) who have bought relatively cheaper homes in CH in the past 2 years.  I know they bought there because of the proximity to work, there is nightlife in the area, & it gives them the ability to "flip" the home.  I have also heard of coworkers in their 20's mention that they wouldn't buy in CH (even though they currently rent there) because the taxes are too high and the majority of the housing stock is too old (requiring additional maintenance, etc).

 

I think if CH can attract young home buyers who will eventually get married and have a family and stay in CH then it can remain a strong city.

 

Therein lies the rub and I believe this kind of goes along with a discussion being held on another thread regarding the schools in Cleveland.  Similarly, the CHUH schools have, as a far as I can tell, a less-than-stellar reputation within the region.  Many young folks either buy in this area and move when they have kids or simply avoid the city altogether because the local schools are not an option for them.  I think the district has an opportunity to fix that a bit if they were to consider some outside-the-box ideas for their upcoming reconfiguration plan (which itself will provide fodder for years to come for this thread), but I doubt they shake things up too much, which means that is one part of the CH experience I don't see improving any time soon.

Then you probably shouldnt automatically relate it if others mention it.

 

I thought this was pretty good news for this strip since we have seen a series of failed attempts here, and if Doug cant pull it off nobody can:

 

fire's doug katz to turn historic diner cars into cafe, catering kitchen

Thursday, November 15, 2012

 

Doug Katz, chef-owner of the popular Fire Food and Drink at Shaker Square, has purchased the vacant diner cars on Lee Road in Cleveland Heights, planning to use them as home base for a farm-to-table deli and his growing catering operation.

 

"It's a perfect catering kitchen," says Katz of the 3,000-square-foot kitchen in the rear of the diner cars. "In one of the diner cars, I'm going to create a Fire-quality diner that serves breakfast, lunch and dinner. In the other one, I'm going to create a space people can use for a catered function."

 

Katz, who lives in Cleveland Heights, fell in love with the diners 10 years ago when one of his neighbors, Big Fun owner Steve Presser, purchased and relocated them from out of state. He later opened Dottie's Diner and Sweet City Diner. Since those closed, a string of short-lived eateries followed.

http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/leeroaddiners111512.aspx

 

I thought this was pretty good news for this strip since we have seen a series of failed attempts here, and if Doug can pull it off nobody can:

 

Unfortunately, I will be surprised if the diners can ever be successful in their current location, a long walk north of Cedar and set back from the street. 

 

Cleveland Heights has been more successful in the business districts with small businesses and a walkable pedestrian feel, with lots of housing nearby, than it has in an auto-centric let's-hope-people-drive-to-our-store area like Severance.  People I know in CH talk about how they like being able to walk up the street to the bars, restaurants, and nightlife.  Driving to Home Depot in Severance is described as a hassle.  These business districts and CH's location relative to University Circle, the Clinic and downtown balance out some of the higher taxes and older housing, and I think that is why CH has been mostly successful in the past twenty years.

 

South Euclid isn't that far away and is definitely taking the auto-centric approach, so we'll be able to compare how each city does over the next twenty years. 

 

Getting back to the diners -- because they do not add to the pedestrian experience due to the set-back from the street, and the separation from the main Cedar-Lee business district, I don't think they will be able to attract enough patrons on a consistent enough basis to survive.  Here's to hoping I'm wrong about that.

Awesome news with the diner! Ive been hoping something would happen with those since ive moved here. Im certain ill walk over there to eat sometimes.

 

And as far as how CH is going...

Ill admit i was a little skeptical when i first was transferred here. Since i live pretty much right on Cain Park, people were always telling me "oh be careful, watch out, theres alot of crime. be careful walking to your car". but theyre been proven wrong. i love it here! Im 22 and single, and for me at this time, i feel like ive found the perfect place for myself. I have a nice apartment in a beautiful historic building, and its in a beautiful, quiet neighborhood (except when the cop cars come flying down Taylor from the police station). Im a few minutes walk from work and shopping at Severance, and same from food and shopping on CL and Coventry. working in the neighborhood ive gotten to meet alot of people, and theres alot of hardworking people here who really care about and take pride in their neighborhood. Everyone can see things are changing, but no one is scared of or running from the changes.Just talking with people in the office on the subject, we see most of it as just a normal demographic change, mostly due to kids growing up and moving off to college and the parents retiring. My manager whos been here quite a while sees it as a natural progression. the older generation moving on, and a younger one coming in and starting off. I can even see myself potentially buying a house here someday in the future

OK, folks, let's keep this thread to discussion of projects and construction, not general discussions about CH schools or safety or demographic change or whatever!

Pretty much just a rumor right now, as I havent been able to find anything concrete about it, but talk from the merchants at Severance is that Skechers will be opening a new store where the old Blockbuster used to be in the corner near Daves. Hopefully this is true, cause we all know this shopping center can use some more stores

Pretty much just a rumor right now, as I havent been able to find anything concrete about it, but talk from the merchants at Severance is that Skechers will be opening a new store where the old Blockbuster used to be in the corner near Daves. Hopefully this is true, cause we all know this shopping center can use some more stores

 

Sketchers?  I guess I didn't even realize that they had standalone stores.  Either way, this isn't the type of Severance rumor that makes me any more optimistic about the shopping center's future.

There is actually a Sketchers at Beachwood Place and one at Aurora Outlets.  It would be interesting if they put another one on the East Side.  Ever since they evolved from those idiotic "goo" sneakers they had when I was a kid to a more functional and casual adult brand, they're actually not too shabby of a retail store.  I used to see them at all the upper-class malls in South Florida when I lived there.

There's one in the Strongsville Mall too. They're no worse than any other sneaker store.

Well, got to speak with the property manager at Severance again. She said there are two retailers who are going to replace the Walmart space, but isnt allowed to share any of the details. She did tell me though that they had started looking for replacement tenants as soon as rumors of Walmarts move came about, so hopefully theyre some decent stores thatll be moving in...

 

I asked about the Skechers rumors too, and she told me she hadnt heard anything about them, but she told me that doesnt mean her leasing agent hasnt been in talks with them. soooo who knows. still a rumor right now 

Well, we have another store poached away by Oakwood Commons. GNC will be opening a new store there, with their Severance store to close by the end of this year

Well, we have another store poached away by Oakwood Commons. GNC will be opening a new store there, with their Severance store to close by the end of this year

 

 

I believe that GNC is actually moving to Cedar Center North.  The sign went up on the building a couple of days ago.  I doubt they would have a location at both Cedar Center and Oakwood...

Well, we have another store poached away by Oakwood Commons. GNC will be opening a new store there, with their Severance store to close by the end of this year

 

 

I believe that GNC is actually moving to Cedar Center North.  The sign went up on the building a couple of days ago.  I doubt they would have a location at both Cedar Center and Oakwood...

 

That very well may be. I havent seen the sign or anything, I was just speaking with one of the employees when he came in the other day. Could have got the names mixed up. either way, another store poached away in this zero-sum game of CLE retail lol