Yes and that might be a long-term thing since I don't see the popularity of big schools in big cities* waning anytime soon.

 

*Or at least "big city" by Ohio standards.

25 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

The thing is even at full build-out The District might not generate as much or even close to as much tax revenue as Deaconess Hospital did.

Huh? What's your point? UC decided to relocate the Deaconess services over to UC's Ridgeway building on Burnet to be closer to the rest of the the UC Health Campus. It makes sense for UC to keep those services (office, clinical, and otherwise) close to each other. I doubt there are many large office users who would have wanted to occupy that building after UC moved out. So, re-purposing the site for a primarily residential (plus hotel and senior housing) high-density project seems like pretty much the best case scenario. What are you poo-pooing it for? Personally, I wish they could have restored the original building as a hotel or apartments, but I'm still glad that we're going to add all these residential units. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not poo-pooing it, I'm just pointing out that Ohio's cities collect much more in earnings tax than property tax, and so a hospital which pays no property tax is actually a much greater source of tax revenue than a bunch of not or barely-working college students living in an apartment complex that pays property tax.  

 

Also, the space Deaconess moved to on Burnett was the old Jewish Hospital, which moved out of the city 20~ years ago, and had been sitting sort-of empty since.  The psychiatric ER is now there in that uncool building.  Meanwhile, rich Heart and Joint & Spine people get multimillion additions that look like ski resorts that feature fine art and coffee shops in the lobby.  

 

5 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

I'm not poo-pooing it, I'm just pointing out that Ohio's cities collect much more in earnings tax than property tax, and so a hospital which pays no property tax is actually a much greater source of tax revenue than a bunch of not or barely-working college students living in an apartment complex that pays property tax.  

 

Also, the space Deaconess moved to on Burnett was the old Jewish Hospital, which moved out of the city 20~ years ago, and had been sitting sort-of empty since.  The psychiatric ER is now there in that uncool building.  Meanwhile, rich Heart and Joint & Spine people get multimillion additions that look like ski resorts that feature fine art and coffee shops in the lobby.  

 

That is all true. I, too, would like to change how healthcare is funded in this country, with more funding available for mental health. But that doesn't change the fact that I'm glad to see this development move forward, as opposed to remain a vacant building/site. 

I am concerned about the massive size of the project. That's a lot of area in an important neighborhood that is owned by one company, basically forever. Obviously, that is how the financial and development models work now so it's really an argument for reform, not against this specific development.

13 minutes ago, Dev said:

I am concerned about the massive size of the project. That's a lot of area in an important neighborhood that is owned by one company, basically forever. Obviously, that is how the financial and development models work now so it's really an argument for reform, not against this specific development.

 

Yeah - fair point. I definitely would prefer more fine grained development, as opposed to this "mega block" approach. But given what it is, at least they're targeting a mixture of uses. I was surprised to read in the article that they're pushing for "senior housing". I don't know exactly what that means. Is that like a nursing home? Or just apartments that target an older empty-nest population? The article mentioned that they don't have a development partner yet for that portion of the project, which makes me wonder if that component is actually going to happen or not. 

 

 

At one point there was talk of one or more of the larger buildings/highrises being condos which would be nice to at the very least break up type of construction, scale, and ownership structure.

 

If they follow their initial master plan vision, I'm not overly worried about the scale of one developer having control here. It's a lot, but it does look like they understand that value of placemaking and mix of uses in making it feel like a proper business district. Their planning documents looked really nice and not wildly blue-sky which seems to happen a lot in Cincy (see: the initial concept drawings for The Banks).

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

Also, the space Deaconess moved to on Burnett was the old Jewish Hospital

 

UC Health was renting space in the old Deaconess building, and that's what moved to the old Jewish Hospital (I believe). Deaconess itself moved into the former Mercy Health building at Elsinore and Reading, which was empty after Mercy built their new building on the Lateral. So I would guess that we now have more medical office space in total than we did before, even with the old Deaconess building being demolished and replaced by apartments.

1 hour ago, jmicha said:

At one point there was talk of one or more of the larger buildings/highrises being condos which would be nice to at the very least break up type of construction, scale, and ownership structure.

Again another sidebar here, but how hard or common is it for apartments to be reclassified as condos if they choose not to do condos?

6 minutes ago, Dev said:

Again another sidebar here, but how hard or common is it for apartments to be reclassified as condos if they choose not to do condos?

I think it's a fairly simple process as it happens in a lot of cases. For instance, 3CDC converted a big chunk of their Vine Street rentals to condos in the recent past. I think the bigger issue that often comes up is that design choices for rentals are generally different than for condos. Spaces are generally slightly smaller, finishes are generally not as nice, etc. as it's not as big of a deal for a short-term renter. Typically what you'll see is that a building switches over when the original finishes reach the end of their life and the only way to financially justify a large scale renovation is to move it up-market and sell them as condos.

A lot of buildings have units built to condo standards for utilities and such. That way there isn't any significant mechanical, electrical, or plumbing things that need to be retrofitted in a future switch. You just need to replace finishes, appliances, etc.

1 hour ago, ryanlammi said:

 That way there isn't any significant mechanical, electrical, or plumbing things that need to be retrofitted in a future switch. 

 

You gotta fight...for your right...to in-unit laundry 

The District at Clifton Heights now has a website.

https://www.thedistrictatcliftonheights.com/

These are from a 90s in Cincinnati facebook group...it's just unbelievable how different the place was back then.  There was no big money, nothing remotely fancy.  Lots of car break-ins, car towings, and muggings. 

 

This is Short Vine in front of the infamous Subway next to Sudsy's and the original BW3's. 

 

 

 

This is in front of Sentiments Rock City:

 

Inside the notorious Subway:

 

 

That's the front door to Sudsy's...the stage was right up on the window so you saw the backs of the band from the street. 

 

Handbill for Nirvana playing Shorty's before they were famous (again, the building with CD Exchange in it now at the corner):

 

The Pietasters:

 

 

 

House shows in the neighborhood:

 

 

 

MAXIMUMROCKANDROLL

I forget the name of this collaborative project between North American Properties and Uptown Rents, but it's a big one bounded by Eden, University, Bellevue, and Donahue:

 

View from University/Bellevue looking northwest:

 

From Bellevue looking west (and a bit north):

 

 

Looking west down Donahue from Bellevue:

 

 

Looking north up Eden from University:

 

Looking east up Donahue from Eden:

 

I parked in that general vicinity for a semester at UC. It's great to see that eyesore of a lot get filled in. I wonder if the depression along Donahue proved difficult for storm and sewage mitigation.

I love the density going onto a lot that was vacant most of my life, but why does it look like vaguely art deco Best Western?

Was the rec center demolished for this project?

Rec center is catty-corner from this site. Rec center is to the southwest.

Daniel's Pub will close at the end of this month. 

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

I love the density going onto a lot that was vacant most of my life, but why does it look like vaguely art deco Best Western?

 

OMG, I can't unsee it now

22 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

Daniel's Pub will close at the end of this month. 

Alas. I think you could get COVID-19 there WAY before last November.

I kid, I kid. I've had a lot of terrible good times at Daniels and will be sad to see it go. Looks like now I'll just have to make my own Flaming Dr. Peppers and risk burning my own bar down.

Just south of the Corryville Rec Center (in the empty lot next to the basketball court), there is a lot of heavy equipment and a large hole. Anybody know what kind of work is going on here? 

 

 

Edited December 13, 20204 yr by jwulsin

Last night I witnessed a car smash through the U Square parking garage gate and then peal out down McMillan St.  Amazingly the gate arm landed perfectly in-line with the sidewalk crack.  

 

Wow man, just pay the 4 bucks. 🤣

On 11/5/2020 at 11:04 AM, zsnyder said:

MAXIMUMROCKANDROLL

 

More, but these are from my very-random collection.  I wasn't one of those people who hoarded ticket stubs or anything like that. 

 

3 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

More

I opened this reply exactly as My Bloody Valentine's Only Shallow started playing on Spotify.

Edited January 26, 20214 yr by zsnyder

The classic 90s fisheye lens band photo!

Edited January 26, 20214 yr by tonyt3524

2 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said:

The classic 90s fisheye lens band photo!

 

Yeah nobody could afford those back then...even to rent.  I remember that in order to rent a lens from a rental house in the 90s you had to basically pay the full price of the lens up front with your credit card.  If you were like me and had a credit card with a $500 limit you couldn't rent anything.  I remember that if you wanted to rent a Mamiya 7 with a lens from Calumet they charged you like $2,600, which was an inconceivable amount of money.  

Visited campus for the first time in forever. Here's two panos of the new library plaza.

 

The modular buildings near Clifton Ave and Clifton Court are being demolished. The area is fenced off and it appears that they're putting in new utility lines for the new construction.

KZF is the Architect of Record of the LMN designed "Clifton Court Hall". I haven't seen these renderings posted here, but maybe I just missed it.

 

https://kzf.com/portfolio/uc-clifton-court-hall/

 

 

 

It's so...typical. 

Not every building should be a duck. https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-quirky-endearing-tradition-duck-architecture

It seems like the building is going to have a pretty interesting connection to McMicken Hill on the south side. The third photo shows a raised plaza and a bridge. In the aerial view you can't see what is going on there, making me think they are working with a landscape designer to connect the building to the land in a significant way that isn't ready to be unveiled yet.

 

 Having had spent a lot of time crossing Clifton to get to DAAP, I wish that Clifton at Clifton Court and Joselin Ave and Probasco Street could get some much need street calming. Most of my near death experiences from grad school were me sprinting out of the building, down the hill, and across Clifton to catch the last 17 for the night, often in poor weather because I would ride my bike otherwise.

Edited February 15, 20214 yr by Chas Wiederhold

6 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

It seems like the building is going to have a pretty interesting connection to McMicken Hill on the south side. The third photo shows a raised plaza and a bridge. In the aerial view you can't see what is going on there, making me think they are working with a landscape designer to connect the building to the land in a significant way that isn't ready to be unveiled yet.

 

 Having had spent a lot of time crossing Clifton to get to DAAP, I wish that Clifton at Clifton Court and Joselin Ave and Probasco Street could get some much need street calming. Most of my near death experiences from grad school were me sprinting out of the building, down the hill, and across Clifton to catch the last 17 for the night, often in poor weather because I would ride my bike otherwise.

 

The bridge is to connect campus way to the building instead of having a crazy stairway and ramp system. From my little site visit and the renders, I think this is what the outcome is. 

 

I

3 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

It seems like the building is going to have a pretty interesting connection to McMicken Hill on the south side.

 

This was discussed a bit on the UC Development thread: 

 

This article has a few details, mentioning the "pedestrian bridge" to McMicken: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/01/05/massive-uc-project-grows-reveals-design-slideshow.html

Quote

 

Additional features of Clifton Court Hall include an exterior terrace, a 150-seat lecture hall, a large multipurpose space, access into the building on three grade levels from outside, a student lounge and a pedestrian bridge linking Clifton Court to McMicken Hall. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

Not every building should be a duck.

 

No but on a college campus' most prominent (and formal) street I'd expect more than the same trendy schlock circa 2013 that's churned out for every bland apartment block, speculative office building, and suburban medical center from Miami to Vancouver.  Kudos for only one of the four renderings being a helicopter shot, but it also shows just how uninviting it is at street (and plaza) level.

5 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

 

No but on a college campus' most prominent (and formal) street I'd expect more than the same trendy schlock circa 2013 that's churned out for every bland apartment block, speculative office building, and suburban medical center from Miami to Vancouver.  Kudos for only one of the four renderings being a helicopter shot, but it also shows just how uninviting it is at street (and plaza) level.

It's interesting what this design could have been if it was designed after the Clifton cycle track was in place. It's going to go right in front of the building so it would be interesting to see if the architects would actually want the building to interface with the street.

8 hours ago, Dev said:

It's interesting what this design could have been if it was designed after the Clifton cycle track was in place. It's going to go right in front of the building so it would be interesting to see if the architects would actually want the building to interface with the street.

Good point... though I would say regardless of the cycle track, Clifton Ave is an extremely important street and the building needs to have a strong connection to the street. To their credit, I think this design meets the street better than just about any other building on the "perimeter" (MLK/Jefferson/Calhoun/Clifton) of UC's campus. Granted, I know that's a low bar since so many of the perimeter buildings are set back awkwardly. This concept at least has some potential if the small "plaza" at the corner is well designed, and if the "sidewalk-building" interface is carefully considered. Fortunately, those elements can evolve and improve over time. Even though I'm not totally in love with the design of the building (I'd give it a B- purely on aesthetics), I'm glad to see UC willing to situate a building right up against the sidewalk... something they haven't seemed willing to do for a long time. So based only on its site plan which navigates a steep terrain and manages to meet the sidewalk, I give it an A.

I think it's going to be better than what's going to happen with Calhoun Hall. From the renderings it doesn't look like they're making any effort to engage with Calhoun Street at all. 

Whether it is wise or not, UC's administrators know that UC has one really big problem. UC students are robbed and assaulted in numbers only seen on major urban campuses. It is what the Police call a target rich environment." Because every college student has exactly two things on him or her: a cell phone, and a credit card.

 

They tried community policing and it got them millions in troubles. Isolation is now the only choice for UC.

29 minutes ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

Whether it is wise or not, UC's administrators know that UC has one really big problem. UC students are robbed and assaulted in numbers only seen on major urban campuses. It is what the Police call a target rich environment." Because every college student has exactly two things on him or her: a cell phone, and a credit card.

 

They tried community policing and it got them millions in troubles. Isolation is now the only choice for UC.

 

You should do some reading about Penn. They used to be a fortress and they lowered crime drastically by opening up the campus and engaging with the West Philly community. What you're suggesting is basically the opposite of what any expert in campus planning or policing would suggest.

Shouldn't all of the new "districts" and populated areas around campus being created help these issues?

UC *is* a major urban campus.  While the data is out there, I couldn't find a comprehensive analysis over time, but this report from 2016 shows a marked decline in "type I" crimes (murder/manslaughter, assault, robbery, burglary, rape, theft) from the beginning of the decade.  What's interesting is that the majority of nearly every crime is perpetuated against non-students.  They don't really say who those non-students are, like if they're faculty, staff, visitors, or just people wandering through campus.  Nevertheless, robberies and assaults are very low numbers, like low single-digit or at worst low double-digit numbers of incidents per year.  Burglaries, theft, and theft from vehicles are the much more prevalent crimes (never mind alcohol and drugs), which usually amount to people leaving their phone or laptop out and someone swiping it.  None of these things are fixed by walling off campus from the neighborhood.  UC has 46,000 students and 7,000 staff.  That's bigger than Covington, whose crime stats are an order of magnitude higher.  

Edited February 16, 20214 yr by jjakucyk

^ Up through that 2016 report, crime statistics are included for an off-campus area referred to as the "CSR" (Concentration of Student Residents) area. In the reports I've found online after that, I can't find information for a similar area. The off campus definition they use is instead limited to UC owned buildings/properties that aren't on the main campus.

 

Anecdotally, having lived in CUF from 2013 through 2020 it seemed like crime started to trend up shortly after the Dubose shooting and UCPD's subsequent retreat to on campus patrols only. STARS reports from CPD for the surrounding neighborhoods seem to confirm that, but they aren't following the same boundaries as the CSR from older UC reports. They also only go back 3 years.

 

Stats from 2020 and 2021 will make spotting trends even more difficult as the areas around campus seem to be very sparsely population due to COVID. Per capita crime numbers will probably look very low but they won't reflect reality.

 

Also a factor in recent years are the roaming hordes of ATV/street bike riders that have used the Shell station as a base of operations. It often turns into wild street parties that encompass entire blocks of Calhoun and McMillan, and have resulted in violence, shootings, and other crimes. CPD actually shut down the streets entirely a few times to try to prevent these parties from starting. If it ever seemed like a good idea to make the residence halls on this street open and accessible, it probably became a less popular one in the last year or two.

7 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

You should do some reading about Penn. They used to be a fortress and they lowered crime drastically by opening up the campus and engaging with the West Philly community. What you're suggesting is basically the opposite of what any expert in campus planning or policing would suggest.

Seems like it would make sense. Those men who come to UC to rob people could be coaxed into the new Student Union building and offered some ice cream treats and maybe a game of basketball. Unfortunately, I was at UC when that experiment was tried. Whether it was Langsam or Bennis I don't recall but what transpired was a period when what seemed like the entire Hughes HS student body invaded the campus every afternoon. It was unbearable. But, it only lasted a few years. Long enough for everything made of vinyl or leather to be knifed and for coeds to learn to never register for night class versions of subjects they could take in the daytime.

 

Today, it is a different problem. The neighborhood is ok, it is just that there isn't anything worth robbing someone for in our worst neighborhoods and people there are more likely to fight back. So they come to UC. By the time a trial date would come the students are gone. Criminals today are a whole lot more sophisticated about the system. They are no longer afraid. UC crime has a built in get out of jail free card. And, UC will do anything they can to suppress reporting of crime. I doubt anyone will want to make it easier for the dorms to become more inviting targets than they already are.

15 hours ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

Seems like it would make sense. Those men who come to UC to rob people could be coaxed into the new Student Union building and offered some ice cream treats and maybe a game of basketball. Unfortunately, I was at UC when that experiment was tried. Whether it was Langsam or Bennis I don't recall but what transpired was a period when what seemed like the entire Hughes HS student body invaded the campus every afternoon. It was unbearable. But, it only lasted a few years. Long enough for everything made of vinyl or leather to be knifed and for coeds to learn to never register for night class versions of subjects they could take in the daytime.

 

Today, it is a different problem. The neighborhood is ok, it is just that there isn't anything worth robbing someone for in our worst neighborhoods and people there are more likely to fight back. So they come to UC. By the time a trial date would come the students are gone. Criminals today are a whole lot more sophisticated about the system. They are no longer afraid. UC crime has a built in get out of jail free card. And, UC will do anything they can to suppress reporting of crime. I doubt anyone will want to make it easier for the dorms to become more inviting targets than they already are.

 

"invaded"

 

"coeds"

 

Were you at UC in the 1950s? 

It was a panty raid