Any idea when the next phase of the District at Clifton Heights will begin? 

1 hour ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Does the parking lot to the south come with the building? 

The parking lot is a separate parcel but yes, it was also sold to CHCURC

Developer, nonprofits plan 57-unit housing project in Clifton Heights

By Brian Planalp – Staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Dec 4, 2024

 

Three entities are teaming up in a rare bid to build an affordable housing development at the gateway of Cincinnati’s Uptown neighborhoods.

 

The project would bring 57 apartments to the west side of Vine Street at Polk Street in the CUF neighborhood, more commonly known as Clifton Heights.

 

The Clifton Heights Community Urban Redevelopment Corp., or CHCURC, acquired the land parcels from 2309 to 2331 Vine St. in pair of transactions earlier this year, paying a total of $650,000, according to public records.

CHCURC brought in Over-the-Rhine Community Housing, a nonprofit developer, and 8K Development to partner on the project.

 

The development, which does not yet have a name besides “Vine & Polk,” is expected to be income restricted to those making between 30% and 60% of the area median income. It would mark the first ever affordable housing project in Clifton Heights, according to CHCURC Director Matt Bourgeois.

The city of Cincinnati and the Cincinnati Development Fund have contributed $2.55 million toward the project.

 

MORE

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/12/12/developers-acquire-public-housing-property-near-uc.html

 

At long last, 7 McMillan Street has been transferred to Uptown.

Developers gain control of key property at sprawling development site near University of Cincinnati

 

Two of Cincinnati's largest developers have acquired what could be the last piece of the puzzle at a crucial development site Uptown.

 

The Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority Dec. 9 transferred the four-unit multifamily building at 7 E. McMillan St. to Auburn Land Holdings LLC, a joint venture of Uptown Rental Properties and North American Properties.

 

CMHA had been holding onto a draft purchase agreement since at least September, but it needed approval from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to sign and execute it, according to a CMHA spokesperson.

 

CMHA received $475,000 for the property, the spokesperson said, as well as $25,000 for resident initiatives, which will go toward a scholarship in 2025 to be offered to a CMHA public housing resident for partial tuition and expenses at a trade school.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/12/12/developers-acquire-public-housing-property-near-uc.html

 

This site will be the testbed for Uptown's innovative new construction process: Build the sign first and then attach a building to it.

Do we think they continue with their plan for corner of Auburn and McMillan? 

That area is going to look so much different in the next 3-5 years. I wonder if they would ever consider turning Taft and McMillan to 2 Way Streets? McMillan already is now through all of Walnut Hills. Would make it much better then to create a very walkable, large district from East Walnut Hills all the way to UC, possibly with a big time road diet and bike paths to tie it all together. It makes sense at least in my head.

Just curious but what do you think the benefits would be by converting Taft to 2 way? With th amount of traffic it carries as an exit from 71, reducing lanes and having to deal with oncoming left hand turns seems like it would cause a lot of congestion. And it wouldn't be good to have the off ramp backing up during events.

17 hours ago, anusthemenace said:

Just curious but what do you think the benefits would be by converting Taft to 2 way? With th amount of traffic it carries as an exit from 71, reducing lanes and having to deal with oncoming left hand turns seems like it would cause a lot of congestion. And it wouldn't be good to have the off ramp backing up during events.

With 4 lanes of one-way traffic, Taft was designed several generations ago with the misguided idea of creating a mini highway to whisk drivers through an area that was assumed that nobody would want to live or actually spend time. We're so wired to think of "congestion as bad"... but congestion also means cars are slowed down, which makes for a safer environment for pedestrians and generally is more pleasant for shopping and lingering on the sidewalks. It's long overdue to slow down traffic on Taft. Especially now with the new housing on Taft and the MLK interchange (which reduces car load on Taft), there simply isn't any good justification for Taft to be designed like a highway. 

I think McMillan could easily handle the traffic load as a 2 way and if you switch Taft as well that will balance it out. Let MLK be the main big time road in the area IMO. 

A streetcar on McMillan would be amazing.

19 hours ago, anusthemenace said:

A streetcar on McMillan would be amazing.

Definitely. If they could get the Streetcar up the hill somewhere, and then jog it over on McMillan into Walnut Hills. Not sure if you would bring it back on Taft but that would really connect the area.

City to invest $1.1M in Corryville street overhaul on heels of new Uptown apartment development

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jan 30, 2025

 

The city of Cincinnati plans to spend more than $1.1 million changing streets and sidewalks in Corryville to slow down traffic and make the area safer for pedestrians to complement new development near the intersections of William Howard Taft Road, Auburn Avenue and East McMillan Street.

 

The city is turning over $1.1 million and $110,000 in city personnel costs to make the improvements to the Corryville Community Development Corp. The money will come from a tax-increment financing district. Such districts divert property taxes on improvements to nearby properties that would otherwise go to local governments to the city for use on infrastructure.

 

The area’s infrastructure is in poor shape today, with narrow, concrete walkways and speeding traffic.

 

MORE

Edited January 30Jan 30 by The_Cincinnati_Kid

I would assume the west end of this block will get a equally or grander upgrade when it becomes a BRT stop. I've been so curious if Metro plans to use the Issue 7 money to help pedestrianization efforts along the BRT corridors in addition to the building of stations, buying the buses, paying the drivers, etc. 

McMillan and Calhoun have often been limited to one lane for the past month or so due to multiple construction block-offs.  Anyone suggesting that this become a permanent setup, or for these streets to become two-way (one travel lane in each direction), needs to get up here and experience the chaos. 

38 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

McMillan and Calhoun have often been limited to one lane for the past month or so due to multiple construction block-offs.  Anyone suggesting that this become a permanent setup, or for these streets to become two-way (one travel lane in each direction), needs to get up here and experience the chaos. 

Construction is chaos though. 

In no way would a softer, predictable one-lane each way street be as bad as one where people are used to 3+ lanes and are surprised when it shrinks to 1.

 

Maybe it isn't the right decision, but comparing a finished street to a construction zone isn't accurate either.

2 hours ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

I would assume the west end of this block will get a equally or grander upgrade when it becomes a BRT stop. I've been so curious if Metro plans to use the Issue 7 money to help pedestrianization efforts along the BRT corridors in addition to the building of stations, buying the buses, paying the drivers, etc. 

I've heard in Metro presentations about BRT that pedestrian upgrades at/near each stop are absolutely part of their scope. That includes crossing infrastructure as well as sidewalk upgrades. That being said, I'm not sure how *far away* from each station they'll be willing to spend money on pedestrian improvements. 

51 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

McMillan and Calhoun have often been limited to one lane for the past month or so due to multiple construction block-offs.  Anyone suggesting that this become a permanent setup, or for these streets to become two-way (one travel lane in each direction), needs to get up here and experience the chaos. 

 

I drive it often. It's been fine. 

46 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

I drive it often. It's been fine. 

 

I commute daily down both of these to/from 71. It's been pretty backed up but you can get through it in a decent time. 

Some congestion around campus is fine! 

 

I went to UNC Chapel Hill and South St cuts through campus with just 1 lane of traffic in each direction... and yeah, traffic backed up, especially when students were crossing... because pedestrians had priority. And that's how it ought to be. If cars can fly though campus at high speeds, it both encourages driving and discourages walking. 

Taft/McMillan should both become two-way. It would be the same number of lanes and traffic would disperse between the two. We built a new interchange at MLK, which is 10 lanes wide in that area, to handle vehicular traffic from I-71 heading to UC and the hospitals. In exchange we need to drastically calm Taft/McMillan and let Corryville and CUF heal into a walkable, bikeable, transit-oriented neighborhood.

6 hours ago, Lazarus said:

needs to get up here and experience the chaos. 

Thoughts and prayers. 🙏🏻 

UT and Knoxville is kind of a similar setup where campus and downtown are connected but also kind of divided (Knoxville has a valley where Cincinnati has a hill). 
 

There is always congestion around campus during the day just due to the amount of activity and crosswalks are everywhere. Yes it is a bit slower but it feels natural with how much is going on around you. 
 

Not 100% apples to apples but I think a fair comparison for this section of campus. 

$80M student housing mid-rise planned near University of Cincinnati

 

A Cincinnati developer is planning to build a large new residential development Uptown, the latest in a series of projects intended to address the shortage of student housing near the University of Cincinnati amid growing enrollment.

 

Kingsley + Co., helmed by Chinedum Ndukwe, is developing the student housing project at the northeast corner of Euclid Avenue and East Corry Street in Corryville.

 

The total development cost is expected to be around $80 million.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/03/ndukwe-kingsley-uptown-corryville-student-housing.html

 

Glad to see some non-Uptown Rents properties in that area! And while this is a large building, I'm glad it doesn't take have any curb cuts on Euclid. There will be two entrances into the garage from Eucledean Alley and one entrance from Corry St. Due to the topography, they're able to have three levels of garage without any internal ramps. That's efficient. And aside from the garage doors, the garage is entirely hidden even along the alley elevation. 

 

From the CPC packet, I see "The greatest concern was related to the number of cars the project will bring to the street... petitioner revised their plan to include more vehicular and bicycle parking. Originally, the Concept Plan and Development Program Statement called for 165-180 parking spaces and 170-200 bicycle spaces. The revised plan calls for 205-225 parking spaces and 180-215 bicycle spaces."

 

This is so basic that I'm tired even typing it out... but: as long as free/cheap on-street parking is an option, there will always be a "problem" with too many cars trying to park on street. DCED really needs to work with UC for a comprehensive on-street parking plan.  

 

If it was in the packet, I didn't see it... but I'm hoping that parking is *not* bundled with rent. Residents should have to pay for parking in the garage, and for it to work, that means on-street parking also need to be priced appropriately. 

 

CPC packet: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/february-7-2025/

 

 

Quite uninspiring.

At what point does UC student housing get overbuilt?  I did not attend UC but I am in the area about once a week and it is starting to "feel" like it is getting there but I don't have any numbers to support that.   Are current UC students less interested in living in a house with roommates like the did 20 years ago and more interested in living in these plastic towers?  You would just think at some point with all the construction demand will have been met.  Are small time landlords that may only own a couple/few/dozen SFH's still able to rent them out against this new competition?

How many of these newer apartment buildings have a requirement that residents are UC students? I would assume that many/most don't have this requirement, so they're also helping to fill a need for anyone that wants to live in a central, walkable neighborhood who maybe aren't interested in the Central Business District or OTR. Since some Cincinnati neighborhoods are doing their best to NIMBY any new development out of existence, I'm all for Uptown densifying.

34 minutes ago, tabasco said:

At what point does UC student housing get overbuilt?  I did not attend UC but I am in the area about once a week and it is starting to "feel" like it is getting there but I don't have any numbers to support that.   Are current UC students less interested in living in a house with roommates like the did 20 years ago and more interested in living in these plastic towers?  You would just think at some point with all the construction demand will have been met.  Are small time landlords that may only own a couple/few/dozen SFH's still able to rent them out against this new competition?

UC has WAY more students than it did 20 years ago, and a lot more of them are living nearby campus than previously as it shifted away from being a commuter school.

 

Housing nearly 20,000 more students in the area requires a ton of housing. The demand isn't because students don't care to live with roommates anymore, it's because 20 years ago housing needs were met by dorms and houses and today they're not. You'll keep seeing construction as long as UC keeps growing. It's adding as much as 1,000 students in some years. Even if only a third of them need housing, that means one or two buildings of this scale every single year is needed.

Edited February 3Feb 3 by jmicha

College areas never lost their walkability to disinvestment and abandonment so people don't have to wait for them to "bounce back". Look at the ongoing popularity of neighborhoods close to OSU's campus among people in their 30s and older.

I know multiple young professionals in their 20s who live near UC. We are far from being saturated with housing.

20 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

I know multiple young professionals in their 20s who live near UC. We are far from being saturated with housing.

Yupp the area is actually behind in capacity by a lot and only now are we starting to see things pickup in mass. I don’t think the saturation word will be used before 2030.

Edited February 3Feb 3 by 646empire

Thanks for the info guys.  I did not delve into the enrollment numbers and had not realized that they are now over 50k students.

2 hours ago, GCrites said:

College areas never lost their walkability

 

College students are rich as hell now and barely walk.  It wasn't anything like this 20+ years ago when far fewer students brought cars to college.  Most of the new apartment buildings have structured parking...and then the students have the $ to take cabs (aka rideshare) which again was simply not the case in the past.  

 

So we see the same issue near college campuses as in revitalized urban neighborhoods - less pedestrian activity than in the past. 

 

 

1 hour ago, tabasco said:

Thanks for the info guys.  I did not delve into the enrollment numbers and had not realized that they are now over 50k students.

With a goal of 60k by 2030.

I do have to think between this, the rest of the district (deaconess) and whatever happens to the mega block (McMillan/vine/auburn), that we are starting to get a good number

6 hours ago, Lazarus said:

 

College students are rich as hell now and barely walk.  It wasn't anything like this 20+ years ago when far fewer students brought cars to college.  Most of the new apartment buildings have structured parking...and then the students have the $ to take cabs (aka rideshare) which again was simply not the case in the past.  

 

So we see the same issue near college campuses as in revitalized urban neighborhoods - less pedestrian activity than in the past. 

 

 

 

This is just delusion. I remember visiting friends at UC in the 2000s and the pedestrian activity dying off just a couple blocks from campus. Now there are people walking everywhere. The area is so much more walkable.

 

I feel like you haven't actually spoken to a college student in years.

I remember when you could drive all over UC campus at will.

 

 

I remember when there were drive-thrus across the street from UC's campus.

I'll call out that this is anecdotal (unlike someone else), but wasn't UC a pretty huge Cincinnati area commuter school in the 80s - 00s? No way that the % of students living in uptown has gone down since the turn of the millennium.  So I doubt that far fewer students brought cars to college.

 

I tried and failed to find commuter data for UC.

 

What could be happening is that there are 60% more students enrolled at UC than in 2000, in which case, yeah there are probably more cars. Potentially 60% more cars than in 2000.

Edited February 4Feb 4 by 10albersa

19 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

I tried and failed to find commuter data for UC.

I would also be curious to see this data. I think @Lazarus is correct in that a higher *percentage* of undergrads who live near campus have cars now than in the '90s. And I think it's also almost certainly true that there are more students living within a half-mile radius of campus. Whether the total number of "non-car owning students living near campus" has increased is an empirical question I can't answer. (Perhaps census records would pick this up?)

 

One thing regarding UC enrollment is that it's important to distinguish between *total enrollment* and *full-time undergrads*. Both numbers have been increasing, but my understanding is that a LOT of the increase in enrollment has come from online learning, satellite campuses, and part-time students. 

I will say that students from blue-collar backgrounds are less likely to feel that a college degree is a sure ticket to white-collar employment and instead stick with the blue-collar path that their parents followed as compared to 25 years ago. But since UC has co-op students there are less likely to not know anyone at companies and have no relevant work experience when they graduate as compared to other schools.

2 hours ago, 10albersa said:

I'll call out that this is anecdotal (unlike someone else), but wasn't UC a pretty huge Cincinnati area commuter school in the 80s - 00s?

 

I don't have stats, but yes, UC was absolutely a commuter-oriented school prior to the major campus renovation that replaced surface parking lots with green space and replaced most of the streets cutting through campus with pedestrian-only walkways.

Most state schools are always going to have a decent-size commuter component anymore because the healthcare sector has gotten so big. At UC that's a whole separate campus (while adjacent). 

 

 

Auburn Land Holdings, aka Urban Sites, bought it off of CMHA back on December 9th for a price...that was not disclosed on the Auditor's site. CMHA Board Meeting agenda from December 17th, shows a retroactive approval for the CEO to sell the building for $500k to "Uptown Properties or Its Affiliate." The last assessed value by the Auditor was $192,110 in 2023.

Edited February 4Feb 4 by Dev

On 2/3/2025 at 3:23 PM, Lazarus said:

 

College students are rich as hell now and barely walk.  It wasn't anything like this 20+ years ago when far fewer students brought cars to college.  Most of the new apartment buildings have structured parking...and then the students have the $ to take cabs (aka rideshare) which again was simply not the case in the past.  

 

So we see the same issue near college campuses as in revitalized urban neighborhoods - less pedestrian activity than in the past. 

 

 

 
I work on campus as does my partner who works directly with students. This is flat wrong. If anything we need more transit connectivity and road diets because so many students don’t want to drive. 

16 hours ago, jwulsin said:

I would also be curious to see this data. I think @Lazarus is correct in that a higher *percentage* of undergrads who live near campus have cars now than in the '90s. And I think it's also almost certainly true that there are more students living within a half-mile radius of campus. Whether the total number of "non-car owning students living near campus" has increased is an empirical question I can't answer. (Perhaps census records would pick this up?)

 

People want to think that because a)total enrollment is up and b)several large apartment complexes have been built near campus that c)there must be more pedestrian activity than before.

 

It's not that simple, because for starters, there are many much smaller universities around the United States that give the impression of being much larger than UC.  For example, Harvard University in Cambridge, MA is one-third to half the size of UC but is much more densely built, with far fewer people driving to the campus, and the Harvard Square business district is far busier than any neighborhood business district in Cincinnati.  Far fewer Harvard students own cars despite the student body being from wealthier backgrounds, yet many more people walk and use public transportation.   Harvard also has active city streets that travel right through the center of campus, but nothing like MLK or Jefferson Ave.  But Massachusetts Avenue is...cue scary music...a one-way.

 

On 2/4/2025 at 12:01 AM, ColDayMan said:

I remember when there were drive-thrus across the street from UC's campus.

 

Yeah, now there are a pair of large above-ground parking garages where fast food restaurants and about a dozen brick row buildings once stood.  The fact that U Square is now over 10 years old and struggles to keep tenants illustrates how little its meager addition to student housing actually added to the liveliness of the area.  250~ apartments and a hotel, then a pair of 300-car above-ground parking garages and a strip of half-occupied commercial storefronts. 

 

If anyone remembers the original circa-2003 renderings, what became U Square was supposed to have underground parking, many more housing units including condos, and a north/south oriented outdoor market house, which was going to take the place of Hartshorn St.  Instead, there is no actual outdoor market, only a street called "Market", plus a little plaza with hurricane-looking poles holding up some string lights.

 

The new apartment building going up on the south side of McMillan will bring more students within the orbit of the U Square storefronts and won't have any street-level retail of its own.  This ought to help, but student apartment buildings like this are only fully occupied for 38~ weeks out of the year.  The restaurants and other retailers will continue to struggle during the summer and during school breaks. 

Posts his usual completely anecdotal and biased opinion but states it as fact.  Get's proven wrong by multiple people.  Continues to spout more anecdotal bulls**t.