This isn't the right place to put this, but as far as I know there isn't a Corryville thread.

 

Santa Ono has stated on Facebook that Taste of Belgium is opening a place on Short Vine. This is super awesome news! I love Taste of Belgium and will definitely be going there once it opens.

^ Very good news! Great spot for a ToB.

I wholeheartedly agree! If I had to guess I'd say that come five years from now Short Vine is going to be exploding with activity. Taste of Belgium is going to be a nice draw for Corryville and will hopefully encourage others to follow suit.

Just so everyone is aware, I have merged the Schiel School redevelopment page with a couple of posts that were in the wrong thread (CUF thread talking about Taste of Belgium). The Schiel School topic was pretty far off topic anyway talking about other projects in the Corryville/Short Vine area so I decided to just rename it and merge it with a couple of posts for easier digestion. Let me know if you have any concerns.

After seeing pictures - the Schiel development is pretty terrible IMO - it tries to incorporate historic features and fails miserably by sticking Vinyl siding in all the wrong places and just generally having an awkward shape.  I would have been happier with a street facing brick facade and a back vinyl or cement block facade.  More garbage replacing great old buildings :(

 

 

The thing on Short Vine is probably better than U Square. 

Not only that but even more sh!t is in the works: http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2013/08/council-approves-plan-for-160-unit.html

 

[Edit: Knee Jerk reaction due to looking at the wrong block, the housing there is nothing special for the most part]

 

There are some lovely old victorians there!  So f-ing typical.  Yet the CPA doesn't have like some kind of watch list?  They are f-ing useless :(

^ What old victorians?  There's two sort-of-ok row houses on Euclid, and a mish-mash of early 20th century bungalows and 1 1/2 story row houses on Charlton.  There's some nicer houses on the OTHER side of Euclid, but that's not part of this project.  It looks like they're tucking the larger building inside the block and surrounding it with some lower-profile townhouses, which isn't so bad.  This block is woefully underbuilt for its location as it is.

 

I do find it sad that these projects all come with a large parking garage.  Maybe if they did actual townhouses with their own independent garages they wouldn't need to build a whole separate parking structure which then requires the rest of the project to be scaled up to yield a reasonable return on investment. 

My bad, I was looking at the wrong block.  There is literally only one townhouse that's worthwhile there, its not much.  Still I hope they are going to up their quality of infill.  I kind of knee-jerked, mainly because its amazing how these projects keep getting pushed through and people don't usually know of them unless they are on the Comm Council until its too late to do anything about them.

 

It would be nice if the Corryville Comm Council did maintain and even pay for their website which is cybersquatted btw.

 

The thing on Short Vine is probably better than U Square.

 

Agreed, its a step in the right direction.

The thing on Short Vine is probably better than U Square.

 

Ya. It's actually not that bad. Could have been better absolutely but not horrendous.

Here are some updated photos I took on my phone this week of the "Views on Vine" development at the old Schiel School. Definitely the best new development that Uptown Rentals has ever done. That doesn't mean it's awesome or even what I would want in that space, but definitely a step up.

 

It appears they still have a lot of storefronts to rent out and that people have already moved in to the apartments above. I think this will be a great thing for Corryville's nightlife and vitality.

 

 

 

 

Right down the street at Rochelle and Eden the first two buildings of the 18 condo unit development as the next phase of Stetson square is under construction.

 

^-That's a lot better than the giant pit that was there the last few years... :P

Saw this article in Soapbox, but its pretty slim on details as to what's getting demoed and what (if anything) is being kept.... :P

 

http://soapboxmedia.com/devnews/082013shortvinedevelopments.aspx

 

 

Does anyone know more details?

Unfortunately I'm sensing that they know they can't get every single storefront rented, especially when the new apartments have had ground level retail built.  There was the plan 3 years ago to tear down everything on the Martino's side.  I really hope that that plan is dead, or that at the least they would preserve the facades. 

Here's the one thing that may have saved that entire side of the street.

 

In 2009 the Martino's owners (Anguilli family) plan was to demolish everything on the east side of the street (across from Bogarts).  They didn't get funding. Plan died.

 

In 2011, the Anguilli family bought the HIDEOUS crap development just north of Charlton on the east side of the road (for $1.5 million!)

 

Now, if they want to build a big massive new development, they may be more likely to take that down as it has a much larger footprint for a larger garage and more apartments and is hideous and in need of massive repairs to that garage.

 

Here's to hoping that hideous 80's thing comes down and the historic part of the block stays.

^Hmmm....the two buildings on the same side of that block just south of the Niehoff Studio are up for sale, listed at $500,000.  That is way to high in my opinion, so they are clearly hoping that someone eyeing what us Short Vine old timers will always remember as being the 24-hour Kinko's building are attempting to assemble that block, with the exception of Niehoff obviously. 

 

However I don't see why someone couldn't just keep the existing garage and build a mid-rise apartment on the site of the Kinko's and its majestic ATM plaza.  The development next to Staggerlies on the old backpack store property is about 195x55.  The Kinko's has almost exactly the same 190-200 feet of frontage on Vine and is about 180 feet deep on its north side.  So they could put something bigger in there without having to build a parking garage.   

 

The big prize though is the Post Office property.  It is has a footprint about identical in size to the big thing that just went up on the Shiel School site. 

 

 

The Angiulli's have some renderings of their vision of Short Vine (at least from charlton to corry) on the walls of Martino's... mostly looks like renovated buildings with decent streetscaping. Nothing as drastic as downing the whole block....

 

I'd love to see the old plaza and crummy parking garage go poof... it really kills the flow of that side of the street. The old La Rosa's on the other side needs to go too.... or at least get a makeover.

No developer would ever consider keeping that garage.  It doesn't meet most codes, it's not up to standards of any kind.  If they demolish the buildings (which they totally should) that thing is going away.

Short Vine could seriously use rail transit.

That garage along with the plaza was built around 1993 or 1994.  What about parking garage code has changed?

The Angiulli's have some renderings of their vision of Short Vine (at least from charlton to corry) on the walls of Martino's... mostly looks like renovated buildings with decent streetscaping. Nothing as drastic as downing the whole block....

 

Do you by chance have said rendering or know if its online somewhere?  I had heard the plan to demo everything, and am glad that that's not what seems to be going on right now.

 

I'd be happy if the 80s stuff comes down, shame that garage supposedly isn't usable, as it probably could have provided the parking for any new development allowing developers to spend less and (hopefully) up quality of design.

Martino's does have renderings up on the wall (I snapped a few pics, but do not have them on me).  They look nice.

 

It all seemed to be renovating the facades and re-doing the street with brick not pavement. I think much of the renovated office space will be in collaboration with UC/P&G for their innovation center concept. They have a construction management office set up in one of the buildings with all of the drawings and specs etc... a couple of the buildings on the martinos side as well as the bogarts side have been basically stripped down and gutted.  I am not sure of the timeline but things seem to be progressing and demolition does not seem to be their intent.

Actually found some of the renderings. but they wont post on the forum for some reason.

From the Cincinnati Restaurant topic:

 

Firehouse on Short Vine to become Ladder 19

09/17/13 at 2:09pm by Polly Campbell

 

Short Vine, the stretch of Vine Street in Corryville a few blocks from the east side of UC, is the next Cincinnati neighborhood to get a serious makeover. A new streetscape project, construction of new residential units, and a strong  influx of new businesses is transforming the area best known as the home of Bogart’s.

 

Among those new businesses is a restaurant and bar called  Ladder 19,  which will open in the old firehouse that  was the home of Zino’s  decades ago.

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/dining/2013/09/17/firehouse-on-short-vine-to-become-ladder-19/

From the Cincinnati Restaurant topic:

 

Firehouse on Short Vine to become Ladder 19

09/17/13 at 2:09pm by Polly Campbell

 

Short Vine, the stretch of Vine Street in Corryville a few blocks from the east side of UC, is the next Cincinnati neighborhood to get a serious makeover. A new streetscape project, construction of new residential units, and a strong  influx of new businesses is transforming the area best known as the home of Bogart’s.

 

Among those new businesses is a restaurant and bar called  Ladder 19,  which will open in the old firehouse that  was the home of Zino’s  decades ago.

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/dining/2013/09/17/firehouse-on-short-vine-to-become-ladder-19/

 

I wonder if it will stay true to the character of Short Vine and include a nostalgic fire pole that will ultimately double as a stripper pole for drunk 19 year olds?

Short Vine makeover takes another step

Apartment building opens with full house

Sep. 23, 2013

Written by Cindi Andrews

 

 

The rebirth of Uptown’s Short Vine Street as a place to live and eat will take another step forward Tuesday with the official opening of Views on Vine.

 

The $20 million project, by Uptown Rental Properties, includes 104 one- to three-bedroom apartments above 17,000 square feet of street-level retail just east of the University of Cincinnati. The headliner, a new Taste of Belgium restaurant location, will open in two weeks.

 

“What’s occurring is a renaissance,” said Dan Schimberg, president of Uptown Rental Properties, which has already built several other apartment/retail projects in the five-block stretch.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130923/BIZ/309230118/Short-Vine-makeover-takes-another-step?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

<b>New restaurant, bar project planned for Short Vine: EXCLUSIVE

October 21, 2013

Tom Demeropolis | Courier</b>

 

 

Dan Schimberg’s vision for Short Vine just keeps getting bigger. Schimberg is president of Uptown Rental Properties LLC, which owns, manages and develops residential rental units across Cincinnati. “This is the hottest up and coming business district in the city,” Schimberg said.

 

And Schimberg isn’t just saying that. In recent years, Short Vine has been booming, adding a number of new restaurants, such as Taste of Belgium and Mio’s Pizzeria. And Uptown Rental Properties, with partner North American Properties, has built a number of new apartments in the area. Views on Vine opened earlier this year, and their next apartment project, which will add 166 apartments on Euclid Avenue, is a $30 million project. By 2015, a total of 1,000 more people will be living on Short Vine, just east of the University of Cincinnati main campus.

 

Schimberg’s latest acquisition is a large shopping center right in the heart of Short Vine. An affiliate of Uptown Rental Properties purchased the Colonnade at Corryville for more than $1.5 million. The property is located at 2718 Vine St.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/10/21/new-restaurant-bar-project-planned.html

 

This is very interesting.  He's moving all clients out, and will do a "couple" million dollar renovation to the entire property. Removing the dated 90's era sculpture thing and renovating all storefronts.  He wants to attract bars and restaurants and will renovate the garage. I'm pretty surprised by this actually.  This 1 story late 80's/early 90's development is ripe for a teardown and rebuild with multi story housing.  He says he'll have more details in a few weeks.

Wow. Very interesting. This spot currently is nothing more than an unofficial urban skateboard park.

I'm glad to see that shopping center get updated, the whole place screamed 1990, all it needed was something in hot pink ;)

 

I hope there will be residential there too, as long as the market can bear it.

Uptown Rental Properties sez, "Construction on the new Uptown Rental community at Charlton and Euclid has begun! Open fall 2015!"

 

"Beginning in December, new streetscapes will be added along Short Vine. The streetscapes will bring a bit of nostalgia to the area, and Short Vine will look like it did in the 1800s—think cobblestone streets, rolling curbs and antique streetlamps. Changes will be made to parking as well, including efforts to preserve on-street parking, and additional parking for the public and residents. Sidewalks will also be widened for outdoor dining."

 

I have not noticed any work start, have you guys noticed the upgrades starting?

 

 

This is great news.  I just can't wait until they transform the Kroghetto.

La Rosa's should either scuttle or renovate their short vine location... it might be their worst franchise in the city. With the amount of decent pizza restaurants in the area, I don't know how they compete up there.

During last week's special session on the Central Parkway bike lane, Michael Moore mentioned something about turning Short Vine into a "festival street" where there'd be no curbs and pedestrians would have equal rights as cars. Has anybody heard more details on this proposal?

I missed that part of the meeting. My initial reaction is to support this. I would love to hear more details about this, though.

I think Short Vine would be an ideal candidate for this kind of project. Close proximity to campus but with limited thru-traffic. A reconfigured street would could bring a big increase in retail and foot traffic. And it would be a great venue for special events, festivals, markets.

Yeah I heard that months ago.  But who cares about a "festival street" if everything's chains and music sucks now?

I wasn't aware Martino's, Dive Bar, Island Frydays, Whole Nine Yards, The Cupboard, Mike's Music, Saturday's, Cincy Steak and lemonade, Mt. Olive Market, the numerous tattoo parlors and beauty salons, Alabama Que, Daniel's Pub, The 86 Club, Staggerlee's, and the Corryville Public Library were all chains.

 

Also, most of the chains opening up are regional (Taste of Belgium, Mio's, Donato's, etc). The older ones like Papa John's and Domino's have been there for a long time.

 

And I won't comment on the music comment because that's just dumb.

During last week's special session on the Central Parkway bike lane, Michael Moore mentioned something about turning Short Vine into a "festival street" where there'd be no curbs and pedestrians would have equal rights as cars. Has anybody heard more details on this proposal?

 

I heard that years ago, glad its moving forward. They cut down all the trees on that street as well so it looks like something is starting soon.

I wasn't aware Martino's, Dive Bar, Island Frydays, Whole Nine Yards, The Cupboard, Mike's Music, Saturday's, Cincy Steak and lemonade, Mt. Olive Market, the numerous tattoo parlors and beauty salons, Alabama Que, Daniel's Pub, The 86 Club, Staggerlee's, and the Corryville Public Library were all chains.

 

Also, most of the chains opening up are regional (Taste of Belgium, Mio's, Donato's, etc). The older ones like Papa John's and Domino's have been there for a long time.

 

You forgot about the prosthetic leg guy -- not a chain. 

 

I remember when the "festival arches" that are there now were installed, around 1992.  That's also when the little shopping center with the parking garage was built.  That attempt to yuppify Short Vine ended in shambles, as the crowds attracted by Bogart's, etc., were so large and uproarious (Slayer, Ministry, etc.) that people seeking to maintain a respectable reputation didn't go to Short Vine.  The high point of the absurdity were BW3's complaints that the Bogart's crowd was hurting their business, then everyone else complaining that BW3's 10-cent Tuesdays were destroying their business.  And they were -- 10-cent wing night drew literally 1,000+ people who rode sport bikes and loitered on that strip.  The clash of cultures was amazing, like a few blocks of the Sunset Strip transplanted to the Midwest. 

 

The only question is will this current effort neuter Short Vine once and for all? 

 

 

 

I believe it's the perfect spot for such a project, and will be even nicer w/ streetcar tracks running through it.

 

Great environment for urban tailgating for UC games...as opposed to a parking lot built over Burnet Woods, which a vocal segment of the Bearcat fanbase seems to want.

During last week's special session on the Central Parkway bike lane, Michael Moore mentioned something about turning Short Vine into a "festival street" where there'd be no curbs and pedestrians would have equal rights as cars. Has anybody heard more details on this proposal?

 

It doesn't sound like that's what's happening. The sidewalks will be widened and utilities will be put underground, but it will not become a "festival street" (if a lack of curbs is a defining characteristic of such a street).

 

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/news/short-vine-streetscape-improvement/

The fact that they're installing bollards implies that it will be easy to close the street down for events and festivals. It would have been nice to have a curbless design (similar to what's been done on Georgia Street in Indianapolis, but that's extremely expensive and I imagine unfeasible with just City dollars). Overall, it sounds like it'll be a big improvement. The utility undergrounding alone will make a dramatic difference on the aesthetics of the street.

At this point I think no one is considering the Streetcar for Short Vine.  Rather, keeping the entire streetcar on Jefferson.  I'm fine with that, as the streetcar would move even more slowly on Shortvine and separating the north and south tracks by 580 feet is a bit silly. Downtown they're separated by about 490 feet, which is really around the maximum you would want.

 

 

The only question is will this current effort neuter Short Vine once and for all? 

 

 

 

 

Seriously?

At this point I think no one is considering the Streetcar for Short Vine.  Rather, keeping the entire streetcar on Jefferson.  I'm fine with that, as the streetcar would move even more slowly on Shortvine and separating the north and south tracks by 580 feet is a bit silly. Downtown they're separated by about 490 feet, which is really around the maximum you would want.

 

If one direction is on Short Vine, I'd expect both directions to be.

 

Development potential is far higher (less walkshed sunk into UC). Vine is obviously far more pedestrian friendly. I'm not sure about the effect on speed, but walking distance to more destinations is cut and the appeal of walking somewhere from/to the stops is increased. Remember this is a streetcar, not LRT (any sacrifice in speed would be far less than that of inefficiently winding around the CBD). Overall, Vine is far better IMO. Especially if University Plaza is utilized, which is really a golden opportunity for the city to make a crappy space into a good one (or at least push it in a better direction) while simultaneously streamlining the streetcar route.

Festival streets and streetcars don't go well together. If the plan had been to have both directions on Short vine that would be one thing- but every image I've ever seen showed one direction on Jefferson and one direction on Vine.  I've heard Uptown wants to have it closed every friday night in the fall and spring. That's a lot of streetcar not operating if it's on Vine. 

 

 

There would have to be a bit of a balance, but I don't buy that festival streets and streetcars don't work well together, because I've seen them work pretty well in Europe. It's possible designers would have to come up with a way to subtly (and/or perhaps not so subtly) say "don't hang out on the streetcar tracks," but that's certainly doable without scrapping the festival street spirit. Put the tracks and stops in the middle of the road so it's just one condensed strip to avoid standing on. Put some yellow textured paving on the sides to denote caution. Stencil "do not stand on tracks" between the tracks if necessary. Maybe give the track bed a few inches of elevation (with gentle "curbs" that don't pose a problem for wheelchairs, etc.). I don't know, study best practices in similar spaces elsewhere.

 

Certainly ceasing streetcar operations on Friday nights would be out of the question, but if the street is crowded and the driver has to slow down and ding-ding a bit on his way through, that's acceptable on Friday nights IMO -- it's not like there will be a ton of people hurrying to work, and it gives streetcar riders something fun and lively to look at. The street can be closed off to auto traffic and not streetcars. Yes, it precludes setting up a stage across the centerline of the road every Friday. So what? Work with the space available, of which there is plenty. If people on the tracks is a problem on Fridays, temporary barricades could be set up at intervals to clearly mark the trackbed as somewhere not to stand but also easy to cross.

 

Here's a picture from Denver, where there's a lane for a bus but there is clear overall priority to pedestrians on the streetscape:

I don't think pedestrians are tempted to hang out in that bus lane, but I don't think they feel intimidated by it either. That is how I envision streetcar tracks on Short Vine to be.

 

Here's a much narrower street in Amsterdam, showing shared space w/ pedestrians and a streetcar:

Short Vine would not have these space constraints, so it should in fact be more functional than this example (where some level of pedestrian-streetcar conflict appears evident).

The Uptown Transit District was designed with the streetcar in mind. Metro is planning for a streetcar down Jefferson. Ever since Kroger decided not to work with the idea of accommodating the streetcar on University Plaza property, all signs have been pointing to Jefferson. I think Jefferson makes more sense from a transit planning perspective anyway.

 

I think we need to decide if the ultimate goal is to design the streetcar for transit or for economic development. Obviously they aren't mutually exclusive, but if economic development if the goal then running the streetcar down Findlay, up Vine, across University Plaza, and down Short Vine makes most sense. (As a regular transit rider, I will continue to ride Metro*Plus between the two ends  in this scenario because it's a lot faster and easier.). If a convenient and popular transit route is the goal, then building the Clifton shortcut as John Schneider proposed and running down Jefferson makes more sense.