^ But you wouldn't have had to catch it, just knock that thing out of bounds!

 

Anyhow, that was an epic meltdown way worse than Jose Mesa, the Drive or the Fumble.

 

oh i dk about that. i seem to recall a 2002 wildcard game collapse that was pretty similar. ugh. tand good lord that we have so many of these that we have to dig through them with a shovel...thee most tortured sportstown indeed. sure it was an epic, bizzare and entertaining loss, but all in all i have very little sympathy for green bay fans.

Why do the teams provide the balls?  Why do they have any control whatsoever over any of the equipment?  I never understand why systems are set up to allow cheating when they could just as easily be set up to completely disallow the possibility.

 

The balls are given to the referee and NFL game crew 2 hours before the game for inspection and safe keeping.  There is something more to this story if true....

Aaron Rodgers cheats also,

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/0...story.html

At least one official touches the football on every play, yet none seemed to notice until halftime. The Patriots led, 17-7, at intermission, and outscored the Colts, 28-0, after the officials seemingly corrected the ball issue

 

Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers likes to overinflate the football. When the Packers and Patriots played on Nov. 30, CBS broadcaster Phil Simms relayed a conversation he had with Rodgers.

 

“He said something which was unique. ‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do, and see if the officials take the air out of it,’” Simms said of Rodgers. “Because he thinks it’s easy for him to grip. He likes them tight.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/20/nfl-says-patriots-used-under-inflated-footballs/7UlPZI3eotRTBadM89saeO/story.html

Why do the teams provide the balls?  Why do they have any control whatsoever over any of the equipment?  I never understand why systems are set up to allow cheating when they could just as easily be set up to completely disallow the possibility.

 

The balls are given to the referee and NFL game crew 2 hours before the game for inspection and safe keeping.  There is something more to this story if true....

 

The article I read made it sound like they were inspected and given back to the teams.

What a mess for the NFL.  The league didn't need this gong into the SB..... especially after all the bad publicity it has received this year.

a pause from deflategate:

 

 

Eric Mangini hired as 49ers' DC

 

Eric Mangini, who spent last season as the San Francisco 49ers' tight ends coach, has been hired as their defensive coordinator, sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter on Thursday.

 

 

best commercial was the avocado draft day:

 

http://nypost.com/2015/02/02/super-bowl-commercials-that-scored-and-bored/

 

great great game ends on pretty easily the dumbest play call of all time:

 

http://nypost.com/2015/02/01/pete-carroll-threw-away-super-bowl-with-one-stupid-decision/

 

katy perry did her job at halftime, but missy stole the show:

 

http://nypost.com/2015/02/01/katy-perry-lights-up-super-bowl-halftime-show/

hilarious instagram of kanye having fun at the superbowl w/seahawks fans

 

I was hoping for Gronk to win the MVP because they'd have to interview him and would have a hair trigger on the bleep button.

Wow.  A very competitive and exciting, but very poorly played Super Bowl.  The Pats won despite throwing two picks and only one pass longer than 20 yards (23 yards to be exact) to go along with less than 60 yards rushing.  Seattle gave the game away.... but I don't feel bad as they were only there because GB gave the game away in the NFC championship.  Carroll will never live down that call at the end. 

^Dumbest call in Super Bowl history.

it was a dumb call to pass on the 1 yd line when you have Lynch at RB who'd been effective but the blame goes to Russell Wilson.  The receiver was NOT open and he tried to force the ball in there.  Should have rolled out, looked at other options, kept it, thrown it away, whatever.  Carroll is taking the blame to protect his QB but that was a dumb throw.  He should have seen the coverage at the line and recognized it was not his #1 option and checked into a running play or something else

I honestly don't see much of a problem with the play call. The Seahawks were on second down. They had time to run 3 plays. They had one timeout. They could do whatever they wanted if it came to fourth down since time wouldn't matter.

 

Either way, they need the time to stop on both of the other two plays. They could run on second and call a timeout, but would then be forced to throw so they get a fourth down if it's unsuccessful. They could pass on second down and possibly catch the Patriots off guard, and then go to their strong running game on third and fourth downs. Either way, one of the next two plays had to be a pass and they opted to do it first.

 

If that play had worked, everyone would be saying, "Pete Carroll is a genius. The Patriots were expecting the run, and they had a perfect slant pass that caught them off guard. That's why they won the Super Bowl!" Just like they were talking about the great play call at the end of the first half. It was a brilliant call because it worked. If it didn't work and time expired, everyone would be saying "What were they thinking? That was a terrible play call and in a situation like that, you need to play it safe and get the 3 points."

 

A play call is only good if the result is good. That's why sports analysts' jobs are so easy. They know the result of the previous play and can easily say if it was a "good play call" or not. It's not like he had 2 minutes and threw a pass on second down. He only had two chances to run, and he wanted to save those for third and fourth downs instead of second and fourth.

it was a dumb call to pass on the 1 yd line when you have Lynch at RB who'd been effective but the blame goes to Russell Wilson.  The receiver was NOT open and he tried to force the ball in there.  Should have rolled out, looked at other options, kept it, thrown it away, whatever.  Carroll is taking the blame to protect his QB but that was a dumb throw.  He should have seen the coverage at the line and recognized it was not his #1 option and checked into a running play or something else

 

You're never really 'open' going over the middle against a goalline defense.  The fault I thought was in the ball placement.  Wilson needed to throw the ball lower and more towards the WRs back shoulder, so that it was either caught by his WR or resulted in an incompletion.  He led the WR a little too much and threw the ball high, allowing the CB to get position to make the INT.

Perhaps but TE's get open in the middle of the endzone behind the LB's or another WR can get open racing across...  regardless, the coach is taking the heat today for a bad call but I think the QB made a bad read & bad throw

TEs get open in the back of the end zone when they slip by a goalline defense which is pinning their ears back against the run.  The play-action is sold and the TE goes from run blocking to getting open behind the defense in a flash.  The play the Seahawks ran is a quick slant to the slot WR.  The opening is supposed to be in the middle of the defense.  It can work if executed perfectly, but it is a very risky play.  It's not just that the defense is scrunched into the box and can jump the pass.... there also is a high risk that the ball is tipped or swatted at the line of scrimmage, particularly with a short QB like Wilson.

A Head Coach Botched The End Of The Super Bowl, And It Wasn’t Pete Carroll

 

This article by FiveThirtyEight is a great explanation of the final offensive play call for Seattle. It wasn't a bad call [passing], it was simply a bad outcome. A better call would have been for Wilson to roll out to the side and if no one is open, he can run it in or throw it away. He should have left the pocket and only passed to the middle if it was open. But passing on second down was the right decision.

But passing on second down was the right decision.

 

Not when you have #BeastMode at your disposal.  That factor changes the analysis in a big way.  If the Pats were able to stuff Lynch at the goal-line on 3 straight plays, i'd be shocked, but so be it.  But at least the 'Hawks would've thrown their best punch.

You can't run Lynch three times when you only have 25 seconds and one timeout. What do people not understand about this? One of the next two plays had to be a passing play or else they forfeit fourth down.

 

And by the way, with all passes from the one yard line league-wide, there were 66 touchdowns and 0 interceptions this season until last night. The odds were pretty good in the Seahawks favor that this was a safe play. They might not have called the right passing play, but they should definitely have thrown it on second down.

You can't run Lynch three times when you only have 25 seconds and one timeout. What do people not understand about this? One of the next two plays had to be a passing play or else they forfeit fourth down.

 

And by the way, with all passes from the one yard line league-wide, there were 66 touchdowns and 0 interceptions this season until last night. The odds were pretty good in the Seahawks favor that this was a safe play. They might not have called the right passing play, but they should definitely have thrown it on second down.

 

If they had a Gronk style TE maybe.  But the DB basically (and perfectly legally) forced his way to the ball, overwhelming the intended receiver.

it was a dumb call to pass on the 1 yd line when you have Lynch at RB who'd been effective but the blame goes to Russell Wilson.  The receiver was NOT open and he tried to force the ball in there.  Should have rolled out, looked at other options, kept it, thrown it away, whatever.  Carroll is taking the blame to protect his QB but that was a dumb throw.  He should have seen the coverage at the line and recognized it was not his #1 option and checked into a running play or something else

 

This.

best commercial was the avocado draft day:

 

http://nypost.com/2015/02/02/super-bowl-commercials-that-scored-and-bored/

 

 

The Pete Rose Skechers commercial was the highlight of the evening for me. Very underrated, and unlike the vast majority of the commercials, it actually made me want to go out and buy a few pairs of Skechers for the first time in my life. I don't want new insurance because of dead kids, I don't want sanitary napkins because of girls running in place, and I don't want a dad-car, but Pete Rose can sell me anything.

You can't run Lynch three times when you only have 25 seconds and one timeout. What do people not understand about this? One of the next two plays had to be a passing play or else they forfeit fourth down.

 

And by the way, with all passes from the one yard line league-wide, there were 66 touchdowns and 0 interceptions this season until last night. The odds were pretty good in the Seahawks favor that this was a safe play. They might not have called the right passing play, but they should definitely have thrown it on second down.

 

You most certainly can if you manage the clock correctly.  They were basically back in the huddle with 50 seconds to go after that first run.  I don't know that I would've even huddled.  I would've set them right up at the line and called the same play which just got you four yards, with the option for Wilson to audible to the other side of the line.  They could've easily got in all three plays in that time.  You also have the option of burning one of those downs on a spike if you really need the clock stopped and can't use a TO.  Instead, they tried to run the clock down, which is certainly up for debate, trying not to give Brady a chance to drive down for a game-tying FG.  I was actually a bit surprised the Pats did not call a TO after that first run.

It's Seattle's Red-Right 88.

 

Bad play call or not, it is the QB's responsibility to find the open receiver or throw it into Lake Erie... errr, the desert.

^ it certainly was, except even worse. i can't believe anybody would back this idiotic play call. look at the placement of the ball. do you really think it would take marshawn lynch more than 2 plays to get in? even wilson could have got in on a sneak.

 

as for not having time, well the coaching also mismanaged earlier after kearse's circus catch by having to waste a time out. unessesary and it came back to haunt them in the end because with one more to they for certain would have run all the way on the one. it wasnt the players at all, the seattle coaching staff completely melted down in the end.

 

i had forgotten about carroll's bushleague choke sign years ago, looks like that came back to haunt him:

 

http://nypost.com/2015/02/03/the-worst-call-in-super-bowl-history-will-haunt-carroll-forever/

 

most watched record:

 

 

http://nypost.com/2015/02/02/super-bowl-sets-new-us-viewership-record/

 

 

 

lombardi comparison -

"lets run the ball & get the hell out of here!"

 

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/football/lupica-carroll-anti-lombardi-super-bad-call-article-1.2101297

 

katy perry haltime show...& the illuminati?

 

http://beforeitsnews.com/blogging-citizen-journalism/2015/01/katy-perry-has-an-alien-on-her-superbowl-dress-illuminati-freemason-symbolism-2477786.html

^ it certainly was, except even worse. i can't believe anybody would back this idiotic play call. look at the placement of the ball. do you really think it would take marshawn lynch more than 2 plays to get in? even wilson could have got in on a sneak.

 

So you're saying they should have run on second and third down and dammit if they don't get in on third they don't want a fourth down?

yep. i am saying run on 2nd and 3rd and screw 4th down -- if time runs out oh well -- two chances to score from the one yard line with lynch and the best rushing team in the nfl this year is more than enough.

I think they could have squeezed in second and third down and then, if they hadn't scored, call the timeout and weigh their options for fourth down.  The plays would be straight dives..... not roll-outs or sweeps which take longer to develop.  The linemen would be basically in the same spot ready to line up after the play was over.  It is one thing to go away from Lynch when he has been stuffed twice in a row.  It is another thing to go away from him with a little less than a minute left after he brought you just a few feet from the goalline on a simple off-tackle dive....... especially when we are talking about perhaps the best short-yardage back in the league.

yep. i am saying run on 2nd and 3rd and screw 4th down -- if time runs out oh well -- two chances to score from the one yard line with lynch and the best rushing team in the nfl this year is more than enough.

 

That's the worst strategy ever. Your chances of winning increase exponentially by using your 4th down.

 

I think they could have squeezed in second and third down and then, if they hadn't scored, call the timeout and weigh their options for fourth down.  The plays would be straight dives..... not roll-outs or sweeps which take longer to develop.  The linemen would be basically in the same spot ready to line up after the play was over.  It is one thing to go away from Lynch when he has been stuffed twice in a row.  It is another thing to go away from him with a little less than a minute left after he brought you just a few feet from the goalline on a simple off-tackle dive....... especially when we are talking about perhaps the best short-yardage back in the league.

 

They don't have time to run two running plays in a row. What happens if on second down Lynch gets stopped? The Patriots pile on top and stop them from setting up the next play. Now they have successfully wasted 20 seconds from the clock and have five seconds for 3rd down. The play ends with no time left and you don't get to call a timeout. Not using fourth down is inexcusable. They had it perfectly set up to run 3 more plays. They called the wrong passing play (staying in the pocket and throwing over the middle) and Wilson had a bad throw. That's the only thing that should be discussed. Running on Second down is a possibility, but then you need to pass on third.

Dude, I explained the clock situation upthread.  With proper clock management, they absolutely, without a doubt, could've run two plays.  In fact, they could've run three plays with ease.  If the Pats unnecessarily pile on and prevent Lynch from getting up, it is a delay of game penalty..... so they couldn't take it to the extreme.  The refs would've been very conscious of such tactics given the situation.  But, regardless of all that, the point you are missing is, chances are, they wouldn't have needed more than one play.  Lynch would've plowed right in and scored on that very next play.  Instead, Carroll went with your strategy and is getting absolutely panned for it. 

^ Agree, they had time for three plays given they had one time out left, but at least one play would have had to be a pass play. They should have called a running play on 2nd and either scored or taken a timeout. They'd still have at least 16 second left after the timeout, enough to call a pass on 3rd, followed by a run on 4th if need be. If they tried to run 3 times in a row I don't think they'd get to the third one, even with the timeout. If they run it on 2nd and don't get in they have to use that timeout or else they'd be snapping right around 10 seconds or so by the time the offense got reset, cutting it way too close. Losing the game with an expired clock and a time out in your pocket is a far bigger botched job than calling a pass when you should have called a run. 

 

The best argument in favor of the pass I've seen so far is that it was called to purposely waste a down and 5-10 seconds, because Seattle was so sure they'd run it in for a score on the next play, and any time they could run off the clock would help their cause. I don't buy that though.

 

 

lol you are completely ignoring where the ball was - they did not need three plays!

 

 

speaking of lol - david letterman's top ten take:

 

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/letterman-pokes-fun-jets-pete-carroll-excuses-bit-article-1.2101993

 

Lynch has only scored a touchdown about 45% of plays from the 1 yard line in his career.

 

That means he had just under a 70% chance of making a touchdown on two consecutive runs. You can't leave it up to a chance like that. You have to get a 3rd play. This isn't that hard to grasp.

A Seattle TD was not guaranteed. There has been MANY goal line stands over the years.

unh huh, except i can quote you stats too:

 

Why the Seahawks should have run

 

In the past five seasons, including the playoffs entering last night, teams on the opponent’s 1-yard line ran the ball on 71 percent of all plays. On those plays, teams scored a touchdown 54 percent of the time while turning the ball over 1.5 percent of the time.

 

When passing from the 1, teams scored a touchdown just under 50 percent of the time while turning the ball over at a slightly higher rate.

 

The Patriots allowed five touchdowns on six rushes from their 1-yard line this season, including the playoffs (83 percent). Only the Philadelphia Eagles and Washington Redskins (both 100 percent) allowed touchdowns on a higher percentage of rushing plays from the 1-yard line.

 

If Seattle ran on second down, called a timeout and ran on third down, based on the league average touchdown percentage, two rushes would have resulted in a touchdown 79 percent of the time.

 

 

^ not to mention --- besides the best rushing team, who was far and away the best rushing qb in the nfl? so if you want a cute play, let second down be a wilson qb sneak, which at least could turn into a play fake or run or something else at the last second if it's too stacked or something doesn't look right.

 

anyway, its all water under the bridge now. carroll & company will at least have to get right back to the next superbowl to hope to live it down.

The questions is: would you like to have a 70% chance of winning, or would you rather have an 85% chance of winning?

no it isn't, there is 79% chance of running it in from the one on two plays, which is fine odds by me. even that is an average for the league, not this particular matchup between these two teams, which if anything puts the odds of scoring that way higher (ie., best rushing team, best rushing qb, season history of pats being scored on from 1yd line, etc.).

 

not to mention -- since these numbers we are throwing around (ha!) are all pretty close at around 80% and with low 'n,' you could also just throw stats out the window and use common football sense. you need one yard you run. so yeah i would agree with the majority opinion here and go conservative and run it in and take my chance on some pats goal line stand. per the above example lombardi did just that. you can bet woody hayes would have.

All career Lynch had a 45% chance at the line. That is worse than the league average. Why should we look at league average when we have a more accurate number?

 

And who cares if it's 70% or 80%. Passing has a 50% chance of a TD at the one yard line. That cuts the possibility of losing in half. So if it's a 70% chance of winning with two rushes, it becomes an 85% chance of winning with two rushes and a pass. If it's an 80% chance of scoring a TD with two rushes, it now becomes a 90% chance of scoring with two rushes and a pass.

 

You have to pass once.

it also becomes a 4 out of 5 chance when you are the best rushing team playing the pats and have options like the best rushing qb to sneak it in too. so we can go back and forth based on all time stats, 2014 stats or individual and team stats all day long, thats why i say throw them out, the 'n' is too small anyway. of course there is always a better chance of scoring with 3 plays than 2 plays, but that difference is negligible since its very likely you will score either way.

I would definitely not consider 70%-80% "definitely going to score anyway". And I wouldn't consider 10%-15% negligible. That's the key difference. You're willing to bet the farm on 75%, and I'm here telling you that you can bet the farm on 87.5% and you're just saying "nah, I like my other odds".

no, its an 79% or 4 out of 5 chance they are going to score anyway with two plays, that will do for me.

 

so i guess we will just have agree to disagree. i'm on my just run it in coaching legend's side and you are on your more creative and pass happy seifert, reid, walsh, coryell, trestman, etc (& belichick!) side.

 

 

btw game theory says all things considered during the year carroll's was the right call too in order to preserve randomness. except of course it wasn't, but anyway moneyball is always interesting:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/03/upshot/game-theory-says-pete-carrolls-call-at-goal-line-is-defensible.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

Yeah I think we've exhausted this topic. Agree to disagree, I suppose.

I know I would of won or lost it with Lynch.  If he doesn't get in or Earnest Byners the ball, so be it.  We've seen the fallout from the alternative Ryan is advocating for.  At the very least, I would think that we could agree they could've run it on 2nd down, called a timeout if no TD, and still had plenty of time to throw a pass on 3rd, which would've stopped the clock if incomplete and brought on an all-or-nothing 4th down.  I could live with that.  You can crunch the numbers all you want, but the guy is not called BeastMode for nothing.  They rode him to victory plenty of times.  I actually think there is something to the conspiracy theory that Carroll wanted Wilson to be the hero, not Lynch.

ok say we have the two dud plays scenario, that say the interception was instead swatted down and the next play was thrown incomplete to stop the clock. so now its a third and final play and its a pass. now i would bet usually when they score on a one yard pass in that situation the first options were no good, the play is breaking down and people are running around spreading it out and trying to get open when they score. thus it would either work or not, but it would still give a run it in option to wilson, so that is no small thing and something to consider. or maybe they finally just try a running play instead of a third pass attempt. as a coach i just really don't like those kinds of scenarios either vs just run it in or qb sneak it in on 2nd or 3rd downs and the hell with the clock.

 

geez i better get some work done today lol!

top 25 free agents and where they'll land. cameron?

 

http://nypost.com/2015/02/09/the-top-25-nfl-free-agents-and-where-theyll-land/